[MC_A_DOT]

If you're tired then go to sleep.

[kvndoom]

You think Blackberry really expected big sales? They stopped trying years ago. They pretty much lazily went through the motions with pretty much noone at the helm. Blackberry has been like a brain dead patient taken off life support. The body is surviving because it was designed to do so but by no means is it healthy or recovering.
You cant start a new trend without promotion, you cant join a trend without a compelling product, you cant sell to budget conscious consumers with an overpriced product.

Their problem was the "we'll see what sticks" mindset instead of attacking the problem directly. All of their phones are overpriced because the cost of the phone is disproportionate with the dead ecosystem. A $100 android phone has access to tons more stuff everyday people use than a $400 BlackBerry phone. Problem is, BlackBerry doesn't have the scale to make $100 phones.

The Leap would have been a $200 - 250 android phone from anyone else. Android is free and unless you heavily customize it, Google does most of the work. But BlackBerry has to maintain its own OS, and the BB10 dead weight adds to the cost.

BlackBerry tried different ways to attack the market. New form factors primarily. But nobody wants BB10 on their phones (que 15 people replying "I do" which is beyond statistically insignificant). Then they finally tried Android but they thought they could sell a BlackBerry phone for an iPhone price. Dream on.

BlackBerry sucks at getting the right product at the right price at the right time. But there's no way in heck they intentionally made phones with the goal of not selling them. If you really watch and listen to Chen, I don't think he wants to kill handsets. But he knows he needs to. He could have killed phones any time in the last 2.5 years but they've kept trying to find what works.

BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless

[anon(3983727)]

Their problem was the "we'll see what sticks" mindset instead of attacking the problem directly. All of their phones are overpriced because the cost of the phone is disproportionate with the dead ecosystem. A $100 android phone has access to tons more stuff everyday people use than a $400 BlackBerry phone. Problem is, BlackBerry doesn't have the scale to make $100 phones.

The Leap would have been a $200 - 250 android phone from anyone else. Android is free and unless you heavily customize it, Google does most of the work. But BlackBerry has to maintain its own OS, and the BB10 dead weight adds to the cost.

BlackBerry tried different ways to attack the market. New form factors primarily. But nobody wants BB10 on their phones (que 15 people replying "I do" which is beyond statistically insignificant). Then they finally tried Android but they thought they could sell a BlackBerry phone for an iPhone price. Dream on.

BlackBerry sucks at getting the right product at the right price at the right time. But there's no way in heck they intentionally made phones with the goal of not selling them. If you really watch and listen to Chen, I don't think he wants to kill handsets. But he knows he needs to. He could have killed phones any time in the last 2.5 years but they've kept trying to find what works.

BlackBerry Classic non-camera, Cricket Wireless

I am starting to believe that the last BB10 devices were released to fail. Android was the plan and BB10 had to be proven a failure. They basically made sure BB10 failed to justify the switch to android. Show off your BB10 device and see how much praise it gets. I see a massive demand for it yet no reasonable devices on the market. The app gap situation only effects a portion of consumers as many have never downloaded an app or even customize their phones.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I am starting to believe that the last BB10 devices were released to fail. Android was the plan and BB10 had to be proven a failure. They basically made sure BB10 failed to justify the switch to android. Show off your BB10 device and see how much praise it gets. I see a massive demand for it yet no reasonable devices on the market. The app gap situation only effects a portion of consumers as many have never downloaded an app or even customize their phones.

Massive demand.... just haven't found the right device yet? Portion of consumers that don't need apps?

Sorry but the market says otherwise. And not just with BB10, most every other Mobile OS released in the last four years is facing extinction due to a "lack" of Apps. Microsoft has poured BILLIONS into their mobile platform, more than what BlackBerry is even worth... and they aren't getting any traction.

[anon(3983727)]

Massive demand.... just haven't found the right device yet? Portion of consumers that don't need apps?

Sorry but the market says otherwise. And not just with BB10, most every other Mobile OS released in the last four years is facing extinction due to a "lack" of Apps. Microsoft has poured BILLIONS into their mobile platform, more than what BlackBerry is even worth... and they aren't getting any traction.

Collect some data yourself. Survey your friends and family and ask how many downloaded apps they regularly use. Look into who has customized their devices and who doesn't care. I have been collecting statistical information from social networks and found that VERY few people take the time to download apps or even really know how to use their phones to the extent suggested by "the market". It seems our perception of the market is at least partially artificial, along with the excuses why some software succeeds or fails.
Microsoft hasn't done well because quite simply, it sucks.... People already hesitate to adopt new windows versions and the general lack of trust in MS holds true when it comes to smart phones as well. This combined with the fact that the UI is pretty clumsy and difficult to just pick up and use makes it a hard sell.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Collect some data yourself. Survey your friends and family and ask how many downloaded apps they regularly use. Look into who has customized their devices and who doesn't care. I have been collecting statistical information from social networks and found that VERY few people take the time to download apps or even really know how to use their phones to the extent suggested by "the market". It seems our perception of the market is at least partially artificial, along with the excuses why some software succeeds or fails.
Microsoft hasn't done well because quite simply, it sucks.... People already hesitate to adopt new windows versions and the general lack of trust in MS holds true when it comes to smart phones as well. This combined with the fact that the UI is pretty clumsy and difficult to just pick up and use makes it a hard sell.

Tizen?
Sailfish?
FireFox?
Ubuntu?

Suppose there is any common denominator among these failing mobile OS?

Most everyone I know.. has an iPhone now, not a lot of customization going on there. Other than moving icons around, creating folders, or change wallpaper. Apps... I know all of them have installed an app, as most everyone I know has an Instagram account. But I understand that what I see among my family and friends... doesn't apply to the overall market.

I don't doubt your experience, just your results... and your belief that your experience applies to the overall market. Even Chen was convinced that lack of apps was the reason BB10 was not being accepted. And I doubt he was talking just about with consumers.

[donnation]

I am starting to believe that the last BB10 devices were released to fail. Android was the plan and BB10 had to be proven a failure. They basically made sure BB10 failed to justify the switch to android. Show off your BB10 device and see how much praise it gets. I see a massive demand for it yet no reasonable devices on the market. The app gap situation only effects a portion of consumers as many have never downloaded an app or even customize their phones.

Why did the first BB10 devices that were released fail? BB10 was proven a failure before Chen took over.

[KNEBB]

I believe you mean; Mr. Chen's Strategic Omissions of Clear Non-ambiguous Truths (C.S.O.C.N.T's). "Lies" may appear offensive...

Posted via CB10

[anon(3983727)]

Why did the first BB10 devices that were released fail? BB10 was proven a failure before Chen took over.

So you didn't see anything wrong with the Z10 launch? BB10 was the biggest problem there?

Why does damn near any all new product struggle...... It takes a level of commitment and passion that RIM/Blackberry simply lacks

[anon(3983727)]

Tizen?
Sailfish?
FireFox?
Ubuntu?

Suppose there is any common denominator among these failing mobile OS?

Most everyone I know.. has an iPhone now, not a lot of customization going on there. Other than moving icons around, creating folders, or change wallpaper. Apps... I know all of them have installed an app, as most everyone I know has an Instagram account. But I understand that what I see among my family and friends... doesn't apply to the overall market.

I don't doubt your experience, just your results... and your belief that your experience applies to the overall market. Even Chen was convinced that lack of apps was the reason BB10 was not being accepted. And I doubt he was talking just about with consumers.

Common denominator there is zero carrier support or public knowledge. Tizen has the biggest potential of the bunch because Samsung could simply decide to push it over android, they have yet to do that and seem to have other plans for the OS as of right now.

I am not saying my experience applies with any direct correlation with the market. That is why I am asking others to do their own research to see. I am however confident you will be surprised if you believe it is as cut and dry as these excuses for blackberry's failure.

[sorinv]

Tizen?
Sailfish?
FireFox?
Ubuntu?

Suppose there is any common denominator among these failing mobile OS?

Most everyone I know.. has an iPhone now, not a lot of customization going on there. Other than moving icons around, creating folders, or change wallpaper. Apps... I know all of them have installed an app, as most everyone I know has an Instagram account. But I understand that what I see among my family and friends... doesn't apply to the overall market.

I don't doubt your experience, just your results... and your belief that your experience applies to the overall market. Even Chen was convinced that lack of apps was the reason BB10 was not being accepted. And I doubt he was talking just about with consumers.

And obviously he was wrong. More people left after Priv was launched than bought the Priv or came from other OS-es.

The majority who were on bb10 before the Priv are still on BB10 because they don't want android more than they want apps.

This was clearly indicated by the poll taken here on Crackberry before Priv was launched.

Priv sold less than BB10 phones even in the last quarter, when it was launched. The ASP of 315 dollars clearly shows it.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

And obviously he was wrong. More people left after Priv was launched than bought the Priv or came from other OS-es.

The majority who were on bb10 before the Priv are still on BB10 because they don't want android more than they want apps.

This was clearly indicated by the poll taken here on Crackberry before Priv was launched.

Priv sold less than BB10 phones even in the last quarter, when it was launched. The ASP of 315 dollars clearly shows it.

Android was a shot in the dark.... maybe the PRIV would be a success or maybe not.

It was clear that BB10 was dying and could not support further development. So his option was Android or get out of hardware then. Chen chose to go Android... but I think it was more of a delaying action as he really didn't commit to it.

ASP is the price BlackBerry sells the phones for, not the retail price. When you look at the LEAP and the CLASSIC... those bring down the ASP average pretty quickly.

[anon(3983727)]

Android was a shot in the dark.... maybe the PRIV would be a success or maybe not.

It was clear that BB10 was dying and could not support further development. So his option was Android or get out of hardware then. Chen chose to go Android... but I think it was more of a delaying action as he really didn't commit to it.

ASP is the price BlackBerry sells the phones for, not the retail price. When you look at the LEAP and the CLASSIC... those bring down the ASP average pretty quickly.

Blackberry =
Owns a plant,
Plant begins to wilt
Buys fancy pot for plant
Plant continues to wilt
Buys another fancy yet less functional pot for plant
Plant is all but dead
Buys goldfish
Promises plant some of goldfish's water if Goldfish remains healthy
Puts plant in closet
Goldfish starves to death
Blame plant for everything

[sorinv]

Android was a shot in the dark.... maybe the PRIV would be a success or maybe not.

It was clear that BB10 was dying and could not support further development. So his option was Android or get out of hardware then. Chen chose to go Android... but I think it was more of a delaying action as he really didn't commit to it.

ASP is the price BlackBerry sells the phones for, not the retail price. When you look at the LEAP and the CLASSIC... those bring down the ASP average pretty quickly.

I know that (you forgot the Passport SE and Passport), but the ASP last quarter was the same as in the previous quarter when they sold more phones: 700k vs. 600K, and Priv had only three weeks of sales.


Instead, we can be 100% sure that fewer Priv's were sold last quarter than BB10 devices were sold last quarter.

Android Priv sold worse than BB10 devices, despite the fact that the latter were more than 1 year old and Priv was brand new with better hardware.

[Meghajp]

I don't feel Chen lied to anyone. Its probably the timing of the OS release and the delay in BlackBerry accepting Android to increase sales. Bad luck and hard luck for him.

Posted via CB10

[iHadLastBB]

Crazy how often people make threads and how absolutely no clue of what they are talking about smh

Posted via CB10

Crazy how often people made such a long sentence about nothing in threads like this..