1. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    .22 calibers are deadlier, the bullet will bounce around inside your body and can do extensive damage, 9mm have a tendency to go through...
    08-10-09 05:06 PM
  2. moviemogul's Avatar
    It will be 50/50 concealed on person/in vehicle

    I'm 6'6" if that makes a difference
    08-10-09 05:12 PM
  3. Witmen's Avatar
    What's the 9mm do that a .40 won't? I mean yeah 9 vs 45 acp makes sense. That 9 will go straight a lot further then the 45, but when compared to a 40 that isn't an issue.

    40 don't kick much and it goes far straight. So why have a 9? The cost and availability of ammo isn't an issue either now.

    So how is the nine not obsolete?

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    08-10-09 05:20 PM
  4. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    Many Police Departments have went from the 9mm to the .40cal. Reason being, after numerous autopsies on suspects killed by law enforcement showed that the rounds were not penetrating vital organs deep enough. The best evidence of this was the suspects who were killed in the famous North Hollywood shootout. Autopsies showed the 9mm rounds were close to penetrating the heart or a major organ, just not close enough to kill them, this is why those suspects did so much damage...
    08-10-09 05:29 PM
  5. syb0rg's Avatar
    9mm has been good enough for years, so its currently good enough for me. I understand how the .40 caliber weapon bullets work. Its like getting hit by a Volkswagen Rabbits v. Getting hit with a Dodge 1 ton pickup. A little slower but a lot more punch. That's not my point - my point is the 9mm isn't as "girly" as people make it out to be. Ever think of why the MP5 uses it? And why that was the "entry gun" of choice of years.

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    08-10-09 06:09 PM
  6. h20work's Avatar
    9mm has been good enough for years, so its currently good enough for me. I understand how the .40 caliber weapon bullets work. Its like getting hit by a Volkswagen Rabbits v. Getting hit with a Dodge 1 ton pickup. A little slower but a lot more punch. That's not my point - my point is the 9mm isn't as "girly" as people make it out to be. Ever think of why the MP5 uses it? And why that was the "entry gun" of choice of years.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Wow, just wow. What does the mp5 have to do with a ccw?

    A bunch of years ago, the fbi was looking for something better than 9mm. The settled on 10mm (remember the Bren 10?). Turns out 10mm was to hard to handle so 40 s&w was developed.

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    08-10-09 06:48 PM
  7. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    The 9mm is just fine and at least in ballistics gel, 9mm penetrates good enough to pass various testing.

    To me, the advantage of 9mm over .45acp and even over .40sw is the extra capacity each magazine holds.

    There are no guarantees in life. You're not guaranteed a one shot stop from even a rifle chambered in .308 win or better.

    Personally, for smaller guns with more limited magazine capacity, I'd rather have 9 rds of 9mm than 6 rds of .45. With that few rounds you may as well have a revolver.

    If I had to live in a state with a 10 round magazine limit you better believe I'd be carrying a .45. However, I don't, and to me, 19 shots of 9mm > 7-12 shots of .45.

    This is especially true in many modern conflicts where multiple assailants might be involved. You really don't want to have to stop every few shots to reload, do you? Granted "statistically" most CCW holders never have to draw our weapons, but if the SHTF, I want every advantage on my side I can get.

    The nature of pistols is that they're all weak compared to even wimpy rifle cartridges. They're a compromise between power and portabilty, erring to the side of portability.

    Anybody who thinks their .40 or .45 is an instant death ray with one shot regardless of placement where people will stand and laugh if shot with a 9mm is doing themselves a disservice.

    BTW the .40sw decision is said to be more about penetrating barriers such as car doors, windows and things rather than outright terminal performance in humans, at least from what I've been reading.

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    08-10-09 07:48 PM
  8. h20work's Avatar
    My xd45 holds 13+1. Not that I own 3 hi cap mags or anything, since its illegal in gun loving CA.

    All ccw's are a compromise. I'd carry my garand around if I could. Having the best capabilities with the least amount of trade offs seems to make sense to me. 9mm is a good "all around" cartridge. 9's are fun and easy to shoot, I'm dead nuts accurate with my sig 226.

    Many LE's and military's are switching to more effective calibers. The new mp7 and fn 5.7 are using mini rifle cartridges to offset the limitations of the 9mm round. 9mm is much like the 556 in that its purpose is to wound rather than kill. Wounding a soldier takes more resources away from your enemy than a simple kill.

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    08-10-09 08:51 PM
  9. h20work's Avatar
    I keep forgetting that I'm on crackberry...

    Glocks suck!

    Get an iphone!

    Sig Sauer FTW!

    Ah, that's better.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-10-09 09:00 PM
  10. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    I was under the impression was the reason for the switch from 9mm to the FN 5.7mm cartridge was to give the police, military, etc the ability to shoot through body armor, which will stop 9mm, .40sw, .45acp, etc. The downside to the FN5.7 is it still only makes a .22" hole, so its not necessarily the best thing ever for self defense, even with expanding bullets.

    What is the MP7 chambered in?

    With hollowpoints like the Gold Dot bonded 147gr hollow point, you still get nearly the same penetration and expansion as the .40 or .45. I don't have a link to the ballistics testing handy though.

    Then again, as far as I'm concerned, carrying anything 9mm or above is way better than not having anything, and in the ultra compact market, 9mm > .380 and down, without giving up any capacity.

    If I knew I was going into battle against people wearing armor or having to shoot into vehicles, I'd grab a minimum of a carbine length M14 and my 1911. For every day carry use, I don't feel undergunned with 19+1 9mm.

    I just would like to see the discussion keep rolling, as there are plenty of options and opinions, and is up to the individual to do his/her own research to decide which compromises are right for him/her.

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    08-10-09 09:53 PM
  11. h20work's Avatar
    Getting your facts from wikipedia? Its ok if you are. I'm just getting a wicked case of deja vu.

    I totally agree that it is an individual choice. I have 15 different guns right now and each has its own purpose. Sort of.

    My first pistol was a 9mm sig, I love it and still have it. Went out to the desert with some friends and had to the obligatory "watermelon" test. I nailed it with 15 rounds and it was still mostly there. A buddy hit it once with a 44 desert eagle, all gone!

    Right after this I wanted a 45. I was totally sold on the Glock until the guy at the shop showed me the xd. The glock just didn't fit my hand. There are endless choices out there, finding the right one can be a b*tch. Unless of course you want to become a collector.

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    08-10-09 10:03 PM
  12. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    The OP asked about 3 SPECIFIC weapons. How this turned into
    a discussion of different firearms, the efficacy of one caliber over
    another, etc... is beyond me.

    The original post and a request that this thread stays to the
    original topic:

    I am in the process of purchasing my first pistol, but I can't decide what to get.

    I have 3 options.

    Ruger P95: $320 + taxes/gun tax/etc Involves registering, typical dealer stuff

    Taurus 24/7 Pro: $369 plus all taxes/fees/etc

    Glock 19: Private seller: $500 (worn in weapon with reliability)

    The first 2 are brand new, in the economy range. The Glock is a standard though around the world.

    I am heading out to the range today to shoot all three, but I just wanted to get some opinions of any who have handled these weapons.
    08-10-09 10:21 PM
  13. h20work's Avatar
    The OP asked about 3 SPECIFIC weapons. How this turned into
    a discussion of different firearms, the efficacy of one caliber over
    another, etc... is beyond me.

    The original post and a request that this thread stays to the
    original topic:
    sorry, but choosing a ccw is like choosing a smartphone. there are a lot of options out there. op asked for advice, and that's what i was trying to give.
    08-10-09 10:25 PM
  14. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Absolutely it should have gone beyond the original 3 choices, because the reality is those are not his/her only 3 choices.

    A little extra information is usually appreciated, especially to say there may be good alternatives to consider.

    Out of those 3 narrow choices I'd have picked the Glock.

    No, not wikipedia, just various sources and ballistic testing, including some unofficial testing of my own with different media like phone books, water bottles, etc.

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    08-10-09 10:34 PM
  15. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    sorry, but choosing a ccw is like choosing a smartphone. there are a lot of options out there. op asked for advice, and that's what i was trying to give.
    Not even close. My firearms defend me my family and those not able to do so
    themselves. A smartphone is trivial at best by comparison.

    Absolutely it should have gone beyond the original 3 choices, because the reality is those are not his/her only 3 choices.

    A little extra information is usually appreciated, especially to say there may be good alternatives to consider.
    Were it a generic question such as, "I'm thinking of getting a gun, ideas?" I'd
    have no issue. But there are clearly 3 specific choices and you all have
    kind of have gotten into the weeds.

    Not trying to be offensive or curtail anyones opinions (I have participated
    in quite a few gun threads). Just trying to respect the OPs question and
    thread intent, which was, which of three firearms to choose.
    08-10-09 10:39 PM
  16. h20work's Avatar


    This was with my xd 45 and one of the 13 round mags that I don't have.
    08-10-09 10:42 PM
  17. h20work's Avatar
    Were it a generic question such as, "I'm thinking of getting a gun, ideas?" I'd
    have no issue. But there are clearly 3 specific choices and you all have
    kind of have gotten into the weeds.

    Not trying to be offensive or curtail anyones opinions (I have participated
    in quite a few gun threads). Just trying to respect the OPs question and
    thread intent, which was, which of three firearms to choose.
    that's cool. is it ok if we start a new thread to keep this going?
    08-10-09 10:43 PM
  18. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    that's cool. is it ok if we start a new thread to keep this going?
    Absolutely. Go for it! You'll probably see me there.
    08-10-09 10:49 PM
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