07-07-16 08:56 PM
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  1. grittyman's Avatar
    I recently purchased a Tour, and I don't feel cheated or upset that they're releasing a Tour 2 in the next few weeks.

    I think most people knew that RIM planned on releasing a newer version of the phone with a trackpad and WiFi. I made a decision that I needed an upgrade now and I didn't want to wait. I paid $99 for my upgrade and have no regrets. Sure I can return it (I'm still in my 30 day grace period) but even if the Essex dropped tomorrow I don't know if I would. I'm going to assume that the price for the newer model is going to be at least $200-250 with a 2 year contract renewal. Honestly, I don't think that those 2 features alone are worth me paying an extra $150-200 (including taxes) for basically the same model that I have now.

    Now if the Essex drops in the next 2 weeks with a similar price of what I paid for the Tour then I'd gladly make that switch
    12-16-09 01:59 PM
  2. mountainman's Avatar
    Yeah Captialism (again)

    But I do have to say, the forums give people a place to vent a little frustration, which is fine with me. I don't have the Tour 1, otherwise, I might feel differently. Plus, I think the whole Trackball snafu hits a bitter chord for those BB faithful on their second/third/etc... Tour.

    Captialism is good. But customer retention is also good. Big companies rarely do both well - I can only think of a handful.
    12-16-09 02:04 PM
  3. nhanc05_79's Avatar
    Why isn't anyone thinking about the fact that RIM just released a new model (Bold 9700) with WiFi and a trackpad as the flagship models for both major GSM US carriers (AT&T, T-Moble)?

    Perhaps having a CDMA equivalant is something that's attractive to RIM, Verizon and Sprint? Maybe that's why the Essex is in production and being released so soon after the original Tour. Obviously trackpads weren't around when the original released; neither was WiFi in CDMA Blackberrys. So that there isn't a perceived advantage or some favortism being shown to one tech over the other, RIM is releasing a Tour with those features. I mean think about it. Why would you offer an upscale Blackberry on GSM networks but have the upscale CDMA Blackberry without those same features?

    Just my 2 cents.
    12-16-09 02:13 PM
  4. willyboy6's Avatar
    Why isn't anyone thinking about the fact that RIM just released a new model (Bold 9700) with WiFi and a trackpad as the flagship models for both major GSM US carriers (AT&T, T-Moble)?

    Perhaps having a CDMA equivalant is something that's attractive to RIM, Verizon and Sprint? Maybe that's why the Essex is in production and being released so soon after the original Tour. Obviously trackpads weren't around when the original released; neither was WiFi in CDMA Blackberrys. So that there isn't a perceived advantage or some favortism being shown to one tech over the other, RIM is releasing a Tour with those features. I mean think about it. Why would you offer an upscale Blackberry on GSM networks but have the upscale CDMA Blackberry without those same features?

    Just my 2 cents.
    Verizon did not want Wifi in all their previous devices, including the Tour. It was not that they were incapable of adding it because it was CDMA or something like that. It was by design.
    12-16-09 02:54 PM
  5. tourboy's Avatar
    Well, looks like they finally got it right with the Tour2; now just release the darn thing :-)
    12-16-09 03:57 PM
  6. lobbyintx's Avatar
    this is for technology and devices and not politics correct? just making sure this is the correct place for bb info and not political stuff.
    12-16-09 06:37 PM
  7. slinky317's Avatar
    1) The free-market system we live in, for the time being, is called a capitalism. Why is this important? It is important because in this system we the buyer have the power to determine what products and company's succeed and which do not buy purchasing and not purchasing said products. So if you don't like the fact that the tour 2 is releasing so closely to the tour 1, don't buy it. However, I am guessing that the fact that you are even on this thread shows that this product has captivated your attention.
    It's not really a free-market system due to things like government interference, but I see what you're trying to say. And like I said in another post, if RIM releases this new phone within 6-8 months of the first Tour, I will be taking my business elsewhere.

    2) RIM doesn't care about you. With both of these devices not being a consumer level devices, unlike the curve or the pearl, you are not their primary target consumer, thus they don't care if they **** you off. Their target audience for this phone is the business demographic. This means that the people buying the majority of these phones are going to be businesses and people who see the $400, or whatever the retail price of the phone is, as pocket change and I can assure you businesses don't care if a newer version comes out in less then a year, they will see it as a value add and continue to use their legacy devices, the tour 1, and move forward with the new devices as the need to replace the legacy devices or to add devices arise.
    I very much beg to differ. RIM, as a company, is trying to get in the consumer space. This is the reason for the Curve and the Storm, and things like App World. This phone specifically may be more geared towards businesses, but it's not like they're not marketing or selling it to the consumer side either. What they do with this phone, or any of their phones, reflects on the company as a whole by consumers. Look at the Storm 1, it made the notion of a Blackberry touch-screen a laughing stock. The Storm 2 still has to live down the stigma of the first Storm's shadow. And businesses don't see $400 as "pocket change", especially when they're buying them for 100+ users.

    So saying "RIM doesn't care about you [the consumer]" is foolhardy and downright incorrect.

    3) Have you ever heard the term you can't please everyone? Though admittedly it sucks you are part of the demographic of people that will be displeased with this situation and of the percentage of you that are displeased only a small percentage of you will actually allow that temporary emotional circumstance impact your buying decision. If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one, which is not good for any organization.
    What a weak argument. You can use that about any debate ever, and it shows that you really don't understand the points that the Tour buyers are trying to make here.

    3) Do you own or operate a multibillion dollar a year entity? Then what business do you have arguing with the decisions of a person who makes way more money and actually knows about business then you? Let me answer that for you, none. Saying that RIM is making a bad decision in releasing this phone when you are most likely a sub $100K a year job guy is like me walking into my heart surgeon and arguing with him about the new heart valve he has chosen to use in his next surgery. Its just plain assanine and shows your ignorance.
    I'm not saying this won't make them the most profits. That's actually my entire point - it's obvious with this move that they're concerned about money, not their customers. Yes, I understand that a company's goal is to make money - however pissing off their customers can hurt them in the long run. And for the record, I got a chuckle out of you saying I was ignorant in the same sentence you that misspelled "asinine" in.

    Please understand that your opinion is valued because you are a person and we value you but ultimately your whining and by whining I mean saying things like "if this phone comes out before a year I am going to be mad", or "its not fair that they are releasing this phone before a year" or "they had better give me a discount because I bought a tour 1" not only shows your ignorance but is just plain a waste of everyone's time and server space. However, if you should feel the need to voice your opinion I suggest postulating and forming a legitimate argument for why your view point is valid and allowing for intelligent discussion of the facts surrounding your feelings.
    Not as much server space as writing a five paragraph response filled with big words to make yourself look smart.
    12-16-09 10:22 PM
  8. eve6er69's Avatar
    Hey slinky
    I don't know if you are aware but rim was going to release the tour with wifi and a trackpad but both cdma carriers wanted a new device and fast so they had to nitch the testing of the wifi and trackpad.
    So if your mad at someone make it sprint and verizon because they are the ones that rushed the tour release, not rim

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-16-09 11:01 PM
  9. lobbyintx's Avatar
    i just want my carrier to have the newest bb at some point. if my current carrier isnt doing it i will find another. i think the 9700 raised the standard for bb's and i wont buy another one unless it has wifi and uma calling. that means i will switch to tmo or not buy another until sprint can meet me request.
    12-16-09 11:09 PM
  10. slinky317's Avatar
    Hey slinky
    I don't know if you are aware but rim was going to release the tour with wifi and a trackpad but both cdma carriers wanted a new device and fast so they had to nitch the testing of the wifi and trackpad.
    So if your mad at someone make it sprint and verizon because they are the ones that rushed the tour release, not rim

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The Tour was in design/testing with a trackball for a looooong time. It was originally the Niagara and I remember seeing pics and designs of it over a year and a half before it was released. So it's not like VZW/Sprint just called up RIM and said "We need a new phone, whip something up!" - RIM was testing this for quite some time.
    12-17-09 05:41 AM
  11. Barredbard's Avatar
    I already have a Tour, and in all likelihood, I will be keeping that beyond the release of the Essex. Usually, I am pretty cautious about purchasing electronic devices. Time and again, my patience has paid off. For example, the first batch of Playstation 2s had something wrong with the wiring. The first batch of Xbox 360s had a system susceptible to the 'red lights of doom.' I broke my rule with the Tour. After a great experience with my retired 8830 WE, I couldn't wait. I ordered the Tour on the very first day it was available.

    Needless to say, I have had good reason to regret my decision to buy the Tour so quickly. I should have waited my usual 6 months for the manufacturer to iron out all the kinks before purchasing. The various hardware issues: trackball issues, audio jack issues and battery cover issues are bad enough. When you add the software issues featured by OS 4.7; a relatively weak battery life, sporadic ringtone issues, Error 552 problems, etc., the wisdom of looking before leaping appears to be doubly emphasized. To make things even more chaotic, not every Tour owner is experiencing these issues. Some Tour owners seem to have purchased the perfect device, while others have returned their Tours several times and are still encountering problems.

    I love my Tour, but I love it more for the phone it could be, than for the phone it currently is. I have no doubt that as RIM tightens up the OS, and perhaps emerges with OS 5.0, it will be one of the best Blackberrys out there. But the point is that I don't like being a guinea pig. My contract with Sprint for the Tour is only for one year, so I will be eligible for an upgrade in July of 2010. I will, however, wait the prerequisite 6 months for the Essex to be refined before buying it whenever it comes out.

    Also, my decision to buy the Essex will be contingent on a number of factors, such as: 1) Whether OS 5.0 is released for the Tour in the meantime, and whether it proves to be the OS we are hoping it will be. 2) Whether the Essex, like the Tour, is a World Phone as well. 3) Whether there are any significant hardware changes, other than the trackpad; the inclusion of a trackpad is not enough to make me abandon the Tour without more. 4) Whether there are really any significant benefits to the inclusion of wireless capabilities for CDMA users in general, and Sprint users in particular. Since Sprint currently provides free mobile to mobile, the ability to make UMA calls is as useless as an extra nipple on a bull; I haven't come close to using even half of my 450 anytime minutes since Sprint began that program. 5) Whether the release of a better World Phone than the Essex becomes imminent in the meantime. 6) The opinion of Essex owners, as expressed on Crackberry.
    12-17-09 05:56 AM
  12. ahmunaeatchu's Avatar
    Also, my decision to buy the Essex will be contingent on a number of factors, such as: 1) Whether OS 5.0 is released for the Tour in the meantime, and whether it proves to be the OS we are hoping it will be. 2) Whether the Essex, like the Tour, is a World Phone as well. 3) Whether there are any significant hardware changes, other than the trackpad; the inclusion of a trackpad is not enough to make me abandon the Tour without more. 4) Whether there are really any significant benefits to the inclusion of wireless capabilities for CDMA users in general, and Sprint users in particular. Since Sprint currently provides free mobile to mobile, the ability to make UMA calls is as useless as an extra nipple on a bull; I haven't come close to using even half of my 450 anytime minutes since Sprint began that program. 5) Whether the release of a better World Phone than the Essex becomes imminent in the meantime. 6) The opinion of Essex owners, as expressed on Crackberry.
    i think a good amount of those can be answered now.
    1) i believe that the bold 9700 and storm 2 are running OS 5.0 and reviews have been favorable thus far noting that the phone seems a lot faster (more so bc of the os than bc of faster cards).
    2) im not exactly sure what a "world phone" is but I didnt think cdma phones were world phones being as i think only North America uses the cdma network. but even if i have this definition wrong - im sure if the tour is a world phone, its upgrade will be too...
    3) if the final version of the essex is the same phone that sal reviewed then the only differences should be the trackpad, wifi and a bumped up 2gb of internal memory (there also could be a faster processor - sal said he didnt really know which chip it was running)
    4) i guess another benefit aside from uma calls would be if you didnt get great service in your house (or parts of your house) and maybe faster internet speed?
    5) i think the only other phone on the horizon is the new pearl and comparing the pearl to the essex is kinda like comparing apples to oranges. (diff target market i believe)
    6) nothing i can help you with here - but there are a few "pre-production" models floating around other than sal's so maybe one of them will post a mini review or what not
    12-17-09 08:05 AM
  13. slinky317's Avatar
    3) if the final version of the essex is the same phone that sal reviewed then the only differences should be the trackpad, wifi and a bumped up 2gb of internal memory (there also could be a faster processor - sal said he didnt really know which chip it was running)
    What a joke, and hardly a "sequel" phone. It's just what the first Tour should have been. So instead of getting a trackpad, some of us are now on our fourth, fifth, or even sixth Tour due to sticking trackballs and RIM decides to release a "new" model with a trackpad because the trackball design on the Tour was so ****-poor. What a slap in the face.
    12-17-09 08:31 AM
  14. Dsmithjr's Avatar
    Slinky,

    If you feel slapped in face by RIM because they're trying to improve on their products, then by all means go use something else. Maybe Apple or some other phone manufacture will adhere to your once and year update policy and then you'll never have to feel frustrated by your phone purchase. What would rather RIM do? Oh, I know - you'd rather everything be just perfect, and this phone is what that phone should have been, and every product that gets released is problem free, and blah, blah, blah. RIM rushed the Tour because the CDMA carriers wanted a new high-end Blackberry (this was admitted by Sprint). Some people are having issues with their Tours so RIM is working to improve the original device. What's wrong with that? When the 9650 comes out, it doesn't make your 9630 obsolete. RIM will continue to offer the same OS updates on your 9630, your manufacturer warranty will still be in place if you have problems with the device, and your carrier will still support your device; so what's the problem? You bought the 9630 because you wanted it. Who cares if a newer phone comes out?! If you want the newer one, then go buy it too.

    This whole mentally of not wanting companies to release newer products because people don't want to regret their original purchase or something is just sad. Do people really live their whole lives with this kind of regret? Do they get married, and then 6 months later when some better looking chick asks them out on a date they get frustrated about being married? Do they buy new products because they like the product, and then when a newer products comes out in a couple of months they get frustrated because now they no longer like the product they purchased? That's just sad.

    I bought my Tour on 8/2, and just this week I had to get a replacement because my trackball went out. When the Essex is released, I'm going to save up some money and try to buy it. Not because I think it's so much better than the Tour, but because I'd really like to have WiFi (something I knew the Tour didn't have when I made the decision to buy it). I'm not frustrated by the Essex at all. I love the fact that RIM is working hard to make improvement to its product line. Keep up the good work, RIM!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-09 09:04 AM
  15. Sinternet Jr.'s Avatar
    IMHO, the Tour2(9650) isn't geared to be an upgrade to the Tour1(9630). I think its more less an upgrade for the folks that still have 8130's, 8330's, 8830WE's. If you have a Tour1 and you want the Tour2 bad enough, you won't have a problem coming off of the cash to get it. And yea do prepare to be furious, while I'm walking around sporting wi-fi, and the trackpad. Woop Woop.
    Believe it or not, the essex was supposed to be more than just the Tour 2. Couple of BB game changing features were nixed and will be used in future devices. That makes you wonder a little though about RIM coming out with the newer devices, only for a few changes to be given out to the masses. Other companies do the same thing, and people still get excited over it. Economics.
    12-17-09 09:41 AM
  16. slinky317's Avatar
    Oh, I know - you'd rather everything be just perfect, and this phone is what that phone should have been, and every product that gets released is problem free, and blah, blah, blah.
    Yes, I expect a functioning product when I buy one. Having to go through four phones in order to get a device that has a correct trackball is unacceptable. If you just accept low-quality manufacturing and allow RIM to just say "Meh, forget the Tour. Let's just release the Tour 2 six months later with a trackpad and wifi!" then you are the reason companies feel they can put out shoddy products.

    RIM rushed the Tour because the CDMA carriers wanted a new high-end Blackberry (this was admitted by Sprint). Some people are having issues with their Tours so RIM is working to improve the original device.
    The 9630 was rushed? It was in development for over a year and a half before its release date. That's more than enough time for RIM to get its stuff together, especially something as basic as a functioning trackball - which is something it has been doing for years prior on other phones. And how are they working to improve the original device? They blamed the poor trackball on manufacturing defects in the first batch, but people are still having problems with it even with the "fixed" versions and they're not getting answers. Not even to mention those people with rippling screens and malfunctioning headphone jacks.

    What's wrong with that? When the 9650 comes out, it doesn't make your 9630 obsolete. RIM will continue to offer the same OS updates on your 9630, your manufacturer warranty will still be in place if you have problems with the device, and your carrier will still support your device; so what's the problem? You bought the 9630 because you wanted it. Who cares if a newer phone comes out?! If you want the newer one, then go buy it too.
    It will be obsolete because there'd be no reason to buy it. Will it be supported? Yes, no doubt. But what reason would you have now to buy the Tour 1 over the Tour 2? If there is no reason, then it's obsolete.

    This whole mentally of not wanting companies to release newer products because people don't want to regret their original purchase or something is just sad. Do people really live their whole lives with this kind of regret? Do they get married, and then 6 months later when some better looking chick asks them out on a date they get frustrated about being married? Do they buy new products because they like the product, and then when a newer products comes out in a couple of months they get frustrated because now they no longer like the product they purchased? That's just sad.
    Poor reasoning. We were sold a product that has defects. RIM claims the defects are fixed but it's obvious that they're not. So instead of continuing to fix the defects, RIM decides to just make a "new" device six months later that fixes the problems, forcing people to buy something new. If my trackball didn't stick, and my screen didn't have ripples everytime I hit a button (and this is my fourth device), I'd be perfectly happy with the Tour.

    I bought my Tour on 8/2, and just this week I had to get a replacement because my trackball went out. When the Essex is released, I'm going to save up some money and try to buy it. Not because I think it's so much better than the Tour, but because I'd really like to have WiFi (something I knew the Tour didn't have when I made the decision to buy it). I'm not frustrated by the Essex at all. I love the fact that RIM is working hard to make improvement to its product line. Keep up the good work, RIM!
    And because of customers like you, RIM will continue to release devices with shoddy manufacturing and release the "sequel" phone that fixes those defects months later. However, this kind of thing won't fly long in the consumer world. The Verizon Blackberry BOGO is over, so they can't rely on marketshare from that anymore. If they keep doing stuff like this, they'll see themselves overtaken by the Apples and Droids of the world, especially in the consumer market - mark my words.
    12-17-09 10:24 AM
  17. tourboy's Avatar
    Bring on the Tour2 :-)
    12-17-09 01:52 PM
  18. StephE's Avatar
    imho, the tour2(9650) isn't geared to be an upgrade to the tour1(9630). I think its more less an upgrade for the folks that still have 8130's, 8330's, 8830we's. If you have a tour1 and you want the tour2 bad enough, you won't have a problem coming off of the cash to get it. And yea do prepare to be furious, while i'm walking around sporting wi-fi, and the trackpad. Woop woop.
    tru dat!!!
    12-17-09 01:56 PM
  19. pcwilliams's Avatar
    lol...some people in here sure are intense! PATIENCE PEOPLE! if i had jumped on the newest phone everytime it came out, maybe i would be upset too. people keep expecting perfection, but ain't nothin perfect. when the tour2 comes out people will complain about it, & when xxxx3 comes out, etc, etc...if phones were perfect there would only BE one phone.

    so i wait patiently for the 9650.
    12-17-09 02:15 PM
  20. juttin3's Avatar
    if the device was low cost knock off then id expect to have some issues. if im paying top dollar for a phone by rim which is all they do, I would expect it to work the way its supposed to. they have been in the business long enough to know what customers want and expect.
    Yes, I expect a functioning product when I buy one. Having to go through four phones in order to get a device that has a correct trackball is unacceptable. If you just accept low-quality manufacturing and allow RIM to just say "Meh, forget the Tour. Let's just release the Tour 2 six months later with a trackpad and wifi!" then you are the reason companies feel they can put out shoddy products.



    The 9630 was rushed? It was in development for over a year and a half before its release date. That's more than enough time for RIM to get its stuff together, especially something as basic as a functioning trackball - which is something it has been doing for years prior on other phones. And how are they working to improve the original device? They blamed the poor trackball on manufacturing defects in the first batch, but people are still having problems with it even with the "fixed" versions and they're not getting answers. Not even to mention those people with rippling screens and malfunctioning headphone jacks.



    It will be obsolete because there'd be no reason to buy it. Will it be supported? Yes, no doubt. But what reason would you have now to buy the Tour 1 over the Tour 2? If there is no reason, then it's obsolete.



    Poor reasoning. We were sold a product that has defects. RIM claims the defects are fixed but it's obvious that they're not. So instead of continuing to fix the defects, RIM decides to just make a "new" device six months later that fixes the problems, forcing people to buy something new. If my trackball didn't stick, and my screen didn't have ripples everytime I hit a button (and this is my fourth device), I'd be perfectly happy with the Tour.



    And because of customers like you, RIM will continue to release devices with shoddy manufacturing and release the "sequel" phone that fixes those defects months later. However, this kind of thing won't fly long in the consumer world. The Verizon Blackberry BOGO is over, so they can't rely on marketshare from that anymore. If they keep doing stuff like this, they'll see themselves overtaken by the Apples and Droids of the world, especially in the consumer market - mark my words.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-09 02:49 PM
  21. Dsmithjr's Avatar
    Well, Slinky, again, I just don't know what to say. I'll respond, but I'm sure it wont make any difference. That's fine. My response is not only directed at you; it applies to everyone who agrees with your viewpoint which, I'm sorry to say, is a lot of people.

    Yes, I expect a functioning product when I buy one. Having to go through four phones in order to get a device that has a correct trackball is unacceptable. If you just accept low-quality manufacturing and allow RIM to just say "Meh, forget the Tour. Let's just release the Tour 2 six months later with a trackpad and wifi!" then you are the reason companies feel they can put out shoddy products.
    No. I don't accept low-quality manufacturing or shoddy products. The Tour I have in my possession is PERFECT in every way. It is the exact same as the device I tested when I was trying to decide if I wanted to spend my money on the Tour. If your Tour has manufacturing issues, I highly recommend getting a replacement. The phone has a 1 year warranty. Nothing about your Tour or your warranty is going to chance because of the Essex. Also, if youve been through 4 phones, your carrier will most likely allow you to switch to a different brand. If RIMs production standards are below your allowable limit, you might want to consider finding something which you feel is properly made.

    The 9630 was rushed? It was in development for over a year and a half before its release date. That's more than enough time for RIM to get its stuff together, especially something as basic as a functioning trackball - which is something it has been doing for years prior on other phones. And how are they working to improve the original device? They blamed the poor trackball on manufacturing defects in the first batch, but people are still having problems with it even with the "fixed" versions and they're not getting answers. Not even to mention those people with rippling screens and malfunctioning headphone jacks.
    Yes, production on the device was somewhat rushed at the carriers request to get a new high-end CDMA Blackberry. If you look at the Tour, you'll see that the trackball is not the same as the design RIM used on earlier models such as the Curve or the Pearl. The design has issues, which is the exact reason it's being phased out. The pre-production 9700 (called the Onyx) also had a trackball; however, because the device was not rushed out, RIM had time to replace the trackball with the newer trackpad. Again, if you're having problems with your trackball, you should go get a replacement.

    It will be obsolete because there'd be no reason to buy it. Will it be supported? Yes, no doubt. But what reason would you have now to buy the Tour 1 over the Tour 2? If there is no reason, then it's obsolete.
    If it's being supported, it's not obsolete. Again, you used a Tour for 30 days and you decided it was worth your money. RIM will continue to support that device for several more years. There is nothing about the device you decided was worth your money that is going to change because of the Essex.

    Poor reasoning. We were sold a product that has defects. RIM claims the defects are fixed but it's obvious that they're not. So instead of continuing to fix the defects, RIM decides to just make a "new" device six months later that fixes the problems, forcing people to buy something new. If my trackball didn't stick, and my screen didn't have ripples everytime I hit a button (and this is my fourth device), I'd be perfectly happy with the Tour.
    Again (I know, this is getting a little broken recordish), if you have in your possession a Tour with defects, RIM is still honoring their 1 year warranty on the device. NO ONE is forcing you to buy something new. Your device will continue to get replaced under warranty until you have a perfectly functioning device. If youd, be perfectly happy with the Tour if it didnt have a sticky trackball and screen ripple, I suggest you take it back and demand RIM (specifically your carrier acting on RIMs behalf) give you a new device. The warranty on you Tour will be honored until you have a perfectly functioning device.

    And because of customers like you, RIM will continue to release devices with shoddy manufacturing and release the "sequel" phone that fixes those defects months later. However, this kind of thing won't fly long in the consumer world. The Verizon Blackberry BOGO is over, so they can't rely on marketshare from that anymore. If they keep doing stuff like this, they'll see themselves overtaken by the Apples and Droids of the world, especially in the consumer market - mark my words.
    Sorry, you're just dead wrong here. I've contacted RIM about my Tour issue. I'm a member of RIM's consumer research panel and I've given them my opinions twice about my Blackberries. I've also been highly critical of RIM's current strategy in the face of some serious competition from Google and Apple. That being said, devices like the Essex show what RIM is actually doing right. Their not settling for good, they're constantly pushing for what's better. They plan on releasing 16 new or updated devices in 2010. When better technology becomes available, they work hard to get it into the hands of consumers ASAP. They don't sit around saying let's not release this now because Slinky is going to be furious.

    I understand you're having problems with your Tour; I've had a problem with mine. Nothing about the Essex is going to affect your Tour in any way. The device you decided to purchase is the same device youll have in your hand whether the Essex gets released or not. RIM is still going to support your device, honor your warranty, and continue to work hard to keep you (one of their consumers) happy. If you ever liked the Tour (which you must have because you bought it) then there's no reason in the world for you be "furious" over the Essex being released before next July. The Essex changes NOTHING about your Tour. Maybe you just want another subsidized device, or you feel youre entitled to an upgrade because of all the trouble youve had with your Tour, okay fine. But thats not RIMs job. Thats something youll have to take up with your carrier.

    RIM coming out with newer, better devices is not a reason to be furious. Thats how businesses are supposed to work. But as I said, if you feel RIM has wronged you by releasing another phone in January (expected) instead of waiting until July, then by all means send them a letter addressing your complaints, and take your business elsewhere. RIM will just have to move on without you.
    Last edited by Dsmithjr; 12-17-09 at 03:56 PM.
    12-17-09 03:52 PM
  22. Dsmithjr's Avatar
    Sorry this thread got a little off topic. If anyone has information about the Essex release date, please post it so we can get this thread back in order.

    Thanks.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-09 04:02 PM
  23. slinky317's Avatar
    The phone has a 1 year warranty. Nothing about your Tour or your warranty is going to chance because of the Essex. Also, if you’ve been through 4 phones, your carrier will most likely allow you to switch to a different brand. If RIM’s production standards are below your allowable limit, you might want to consider finding something which you feel is properly made.
    Verizon has not allowed me to switch to a different brand unless I pay full retail, which I'm not going to do. And like I said, if this phone is released within 6-8 months of the Tour and the current Tours are still not working, I will be switching to another brand.

    Yes, production on the device was somewhat rushed at the carriers request to get a new high-end CDMA Blackberry. If you look at the Tour, you'll see that the trackball is not the same as the design RIM used on earlier models such as the Curve or the Pearl. The design has issues, which is the exact reason it's being phased out. The pre-production 9700 (called the Onyx) also had a trackball; however, because the device was not rushed out, RIM had time to replace the trackball with the newer trackpad. Again, if you're having problems with your trackball, you should go get a replacement.
    And if the assembly is not working on any of the Tours because of the new design, how will a warranty help me here? I'll just get a refurbed one that doesn't work either - like my 3 previous phones. And at this point, I'm afraid to swap my phone because of whatever problems the next one might have.

    If it's being supported, it's not obsolete.
    I hate to get into a semantics argument, but you need to check the definition of obsolescence.

    Again, you used a Tour for 30 days and you decided it was worth your money. RIM will continue to support that device for several more years.
    I used my Tour for 30 days and decided it was worth my money, because I had faith that RIM would fix the hardware problems that were plaguing the device (and not just mine). And 4 devices later and I'm still having problems, and now I learn they're releasing a "Tour 2" 6-8 months after the first one.

    There is nothing about the device you decided was worth your money that is going to change because of the Essex.
    And that's the problem. Why fix the first Tour and support their customer base when they can just release a "sequel" phone with only a few extra additions and make more money?

    Again (I know, this is getting a little broken recordish), if you have in your possession a Tour with defects, RIM is still honoring their 1 year warranty on the device. NO ONE is forcing you to buy something new. Your device will continue to get replaced under warranty until you have a perfectly functioning device. If you’d, “be perfectly happy with the Tour” if it didn’t have a sticky trackball and screen ripple, I suggest you take it back and demand RIM (specifically your carrier acting on RIM’s behalf) give you a new device. The warranty on you Tour will be honored until you have a perfectly functioning device.
    And as I said - if all Tours have this poor assembly, as you mentioned, then how will a warranty device solve my problem? They claimed it was a problem with the first batch of phones, and people have shown that to be wrong. RIM has given up fixing this phone, and now they're focusing on the new one that will replace this one in stores.

    [RIM is] not settling for good, they're constantly pushing for what's better.
    Really? So you think releasing a device that's only upgrades are Wifi, a trackpad, and extra memory to be worthy of being a "sequel" device? Come on, let's be honest here. That's barely a "Tour 1.5", let alone a full follow-up. It's simply fixing what problems the first Tour had, not really adding anything innovative.

    They plan on releasing 16 new or updated devices in 2010.
    And that scares the **** out of me. Look at LG, they have so many phones out there that they've become the jack of all trades, and all their phones are pretty much average at best. I'd rather RIM put their focus on one or two phones and design the best possible devices. Not **** out something that's sub-par quick just to appease people and then release a fixed version 6 months later.

    They don't sit around saying let's not release this now because Slinky is going to be furious.
    Come on now, don't try to make it seem like I'm the only person that has a problem with this.

    I understand you're having problems with your Tour; I've had a problem with mine. Nothing about the Essex is going to affect your Tour in any way. The device you decided to purchase is the same device you’ll have in your hand whether the Essex gets released or not. RIM is still going to support your device, honor your warranty, and continue to work hard to keep you (one of their consumers) happy.
    If by "working hard" you mean releasing devices that are buggy and shoddy (Storm 1 and Tour 1), then we're in for a bumpy ride.
    12-17-09 04:12 PM
  24. ahmunaeatchu's Avatar
    seriously this was getting a little outta hand. the posts were getting so long that i just stop reading them hahaha.

    sal posted a picture of a verizon wireless branded essex and said that the average time from pics of branded phones to release is month.
    so first half of january is looking good.

    not to bring it back to the long-post-wars but the essex will probably release around 6 months after the first tour... in other segments of the tech industry i would say 6 months is about average if not even long (i.e. processors/video cards)
    12-17-09 04:13 PM
  25. BlkBryAddict's Avatar
    Finally! Now use 9630 owners get a real 5.0 OS! It will be like XMAS all over again when the official update is announced.
    12-17-09 04:21 PM
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