[Dsmithjr]

And here's a big-time opinion:

I don't think the stock levels matter at all. The beauty of making the Tour 2 just like the original Tour with only a few upgrades is that RIM could essentially pull all of the unsold Tour stock back, update them with WiFI chip, memory, trackpad, and keyboard and sell them as Tour 2s. There's no cosmetic differences between the two models. And if the trackballs are so problematic, RIM would probably save money by updating the original Tours rather then selling them with defective trackballs, having them returned, and then having to do a refurb and sell them as such. RIM's still a smart company, and I'm sure they'll figure something out.

I think the issue lies in production numbers and appropriate marketing. How can you begin selling a "Tour 2" just 6 months after you started selling the original Tour? They'll probably just have to call it an updated Tour, but they're still going to have some disgruntled consumers to deal with.

[mankows5]

And here's a big-time opinion:

I don't think the stock levels matter at all. The beauty of making the Tour 2 just like the original Tour with only a few upgrades is that RIM could essentially pull all of the unsold Tour stock back, update them with WiFI chip, memory, trackpad, and keyboard and sell them as Tour 2s. There's no cosmetic differences between the two models. And if the trackballs are so problematic, RIM would probably save money by updating the original Tours rather then selling them with defective trackballs, having them returned, and then having to do a refurb and sell them as such. RIM's still a smart company, and I'm sure they'll figure something out.

I think the issue lies in production numbers and appropriate marketing. How can you begin selling a "Tour 2" just 6 months after you started selling the original Tour? They'll probably just have to call it an updated Tour, but they're still going to have some disgruntled consumers to deal with.

Im not 100% percent sure so if somebody wants to look this up might be better. But Im pretty sure they are not the same. I think the buttons on the bottom row are a bit different and I think that stems from the fact that the track pad is a little bit bigger than the track ball. So they would have to redo the keyboard and the faceplate.... maybe they will.
who knows.

[Mistik]

no there is a difference on the inside and outside. Buttons on the bottom row are a bit different due to the trackpad and they put 2gb internal memory in there which will need modifications. The wifi needs to be tested as well

This is what the video and reviews of Sal showed

[iMoose]

I would love to see the Tour2 come out tomorrow, but I don't think it's happening. It's bad policy for RIM to release an updated version so soon. How can a customer be expected to pay hard earned cash for a BB that in 6 months might be obsolete? Who would take that risk except for us ? Also, as has been pointed out many times, RIM releases the XXXX2 about a year after the first device. And while they could use the remaining stock of Tours for FRU devices at the store, they probably won't. They'll keep selling them, test the Tour2 for a bit longer and then release it Q2 next year. I hope I'm wrong and on Monday Verizon and Sprint announce the updated Tour2 for sale December 13...but like they say, live in hope and die in dispair

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[eve6er69]

I would love to see the Tour2 come out tomorrow, but I don't think it's happening. It's bad policy for RIM to release an updated version so soon. How can a customer be expected to pay hard earned cash for a BB that in 6 months might be obsolete? Who would take that risk except for us

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Apple always does and people seem to love them.
Maybe rim needs to do this all the time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[bobthemagicman]

I am just going to throw in my 2 cents, like everyone else here does, but if we are all concerned that Verizon is trying to reduce stock of the current iteration of the Tour and that that means they are a long way away from releasing this I think that is a misconception. You are all assuming that they have a lot of stock to liquidate, please correct my if I am wrong AND you have evidence of me being wrong, but I was on verifying my new every two a couple days ago on the VZW site and the tour with no camera was listed as out of stock. They have since changed it back to being in stock but I would think that this would imply that they are running low on stock of Tours. A major player like VZW isn't going to allow the customer to walk in and ask for a top end BB devise and have to tell them they don't have any because the new one isn't out and the old one is sold out and discontinued. So obviously there has to be some sort of overlap here where they will have both phones in inventory.

So, am I hoping for a Dec 15th release? F*** yes I am, but do I think its realistic not necessarily but I also don't think a March release is a reality either. So here is the evidence laid out:

Positive for very soon release:
1. Sal typically does the overview of a phone within about 30 - 90 days of its release, he has already done the overview for this phone nearly a month ago now.

2. The phone has already been branded by VZW

3. The currently/possibly low stock of Tours

4. Either Sal or Kevin, can't remember which, said that they have ramped up production of the Tour 2, a company doesn't do that unless they are absolutely sure that they are going to market with the device soon because they want to beat the competition to the consumers wallet and they do not want to be stuck with a large amount of inventory of a unit they are unable to move, I am not sure what they would really be competing with with this phone due to the fact that it is the second iteration of a current phone.

Negative for very soon release:
1. The Storm is one of the few phones that hasn't waited a year for an update to be released, so perhaps they may wish to wait a little longer.

2. They just released the droid, even thought the essex doesn't really complete with the droid because it is not a consumer level device and droid is a new phone and the essex is an update on a current phone.

3. The may wish to liquidate the of their Tour stock during the holidays and January is not a good month to do anything in the retail industry because everyone is broke, especially during a recession.

I know I have forgotten some stuff and if I remember I will edit my post, but I think the majority of the evidence suggests that we will definitely see this phone very soon. I do however think if we don't see it released before Christmas it won't be until Feb that we see it, maybe March. Ultimately none of us except Kevin and Sal have a clue and we are all just hypothesizing on the data they have already supplied, for which we are very grateful for by the way.

Thanks,
Justen

[bobthemagicman]

i think i just pee'd a little

OMG, can't stop laughing. That's awesome thanks for the post!

Apple always does and people seem to love them.
Maybe rim needs to do this all the time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Couldn't agree more, it seems as consumers our lust for the latest greatest devices out weighs the pains of those devices coming so quickly in succession of each other.

[ahmunaeatchu]

I would love to see the Tour2 come out tomorrow, but I don't think it's happening. It's bad policy for RIM to release an updated version so soon. How can a customer be expected to pay hard earned cash for a BB that in 6 months might be obsolete? Who would take that risk except for us ? Also, as has been pointed out many times, RIM releases the XXXX2 about a year after the first device. And while they could use the remaining stock of Tours for FRU devices at the store, they probably won't. They'll keep selling them, test the Tour2 for a bit longer and then release it Q2 next year. I hope I'm wrong and on Monday Verizon and Sprint announce the updated Tour2 for sale December 13...but like they say, live in hope and die in dispair

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

that argument is solely based on the assumption that RIM believes this is the "tour2". only people speculating on the internet are calling it the tour2.

if the essex is going to be released with the specs that sal showed us then it's not a true upgrade. i mean a whole year to add on a trackpad, wifi and more internal memory? i think it would be an even worse policy to make people wait that long for that kind of "upgrade".

[iMoose]

Apple always does and people seem to love them.
Maybe rim needs to do this all the time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Apple releases the new iPhone once a year, around July.

[iMoose]

@bobthemagicman, you said "There was not very much time between the Storm 1 and Storm 2, so everyone who keeps say "at least a year from the tour 1 release", please get a clue and stop trying to burst everyone's bubble, its rude, unless of course you actually have evidence to back your claim up"

I got my Storm in January after the first OS update came out, the Storm dropped in Nov 2008, same time as the Storm2 but a year earlier, the Curve2 just came out on VZW and the Bold2 dropped over a year after the original Bold. How's that for evidence?

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles, I REALLY want the updated Tour!!! I hope that RIM breaks from their normal pattern and gets this one out much faster, I really do. I think the fact that there are Verizon branded units out there is a very positive sign. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

[lawrence]

Sal just posted on his twitter that Tour 2 release date is "looking good" for sometime between Dec 20th - Jan 15th!

Alejandro Salomon (salomondrin) on Twitter

[Breny]

Sal just posted on his twitter that Tour 2 release date is "looking good" for sometime between Dec 20th - Jan 15th!

Alejandro Salomon (salomondrin) on Twitter

Thats great!

[stephlb]

probably said that so you would join your brother in buying the new curve.

Possibly, but he did give me my Curve for free, and kept my upgrade intact for March so I could upgrade to the Essex.

[Dsmithjr]

It's not fair to compare the "Tour 2" to something like the Storm 2. The Storm 2 was a completely new phone. It was using a brand new technology for RIM (piezo-tech) and it was a full device update meaning new screen type, new back plate, new button configuration, new battery door design, new bezel design, and it was the first BB running the new 5.0 software. One would completely expect an upgrade of this magnitude to take at least a year.

If the "Tour 2" gets released in the version we've all seen before, then it will not take RIM a year to produce the phone. It uses the same back plate, the same bezel, the some button configuration, the same screen, the same processor, the same battery door, basically the same everything. The updates are in the trackpad (which requires a slightly modified keyboard), WiFI, and added memory. There are also rumors going around (rumors I don't necessarily believe by the way) that the original Tour actually is WiFi capable but that it was locked out at the request of both Sprint and Verizon; something both of those carriers use to do pretty routinely. Even if these rumors are false, it's not a big deal for RIM to add the same CDMA radio and WiFi chip used in devices like the S2 on the "Tour 2". The trackpad also doesn't require a complete re-due. If you'll remember back when the first 9700 prototypes started to appear on CB they were using a trackball. When the device finally launched several months later it was using the new trackpad. The onboard memory might require the biggest change, but I'd doubt that would even be too complicated. And the 5.0 software is already out there.

The whole point is that nothing about this phone adds up to a July 2010 release; it just doesn't. Sprint's VP of Consumer Marketing saying they're adding WiFi to the Tour back in Oct., branded phones going around, both Sprint and Verizon models already floating around, the official 9650 number, and prerelease devices being sold on other websites and ebay and people still think this wont drop officially for another 7 months? If all we had seen of this device was one video from one source showing some early hardware and software prototype, then I'd say you're probably still 6 months out. But we're way further down the road than that.

Again, I think it all comes down to what RIM and the carriers want to do with this device. What will it be called, how will it be marketed, what to do with the original Tours, what to do with disgruntled Tour owners, etc... I don't see why it has to be called the Tour 2. Why couldn't it just be advertised as the Tour, now with WiFi? That's what RIM did with the Pearl. The new 9100 striker is not the Pearl 2, it's the Pearl 3. People just think it's the Pearl 2 because RIM never called the second Pearl the Pearl 2. The 8100 was the original Pearl. It had a 1.3mp camera and it didn't have WiFi. The 8120 (followed by the 8130) were the Pearl 2, but they were always just called the Pearl even though they were released with updated software, 2.0mp cameras, and WiFi on the GSM models (I think GPS was added as well).

My opinion (and I have a bad habit of being completely wrong about this stuff) is that we'll see the "Tour 2" in early Q1 2010. I would love to see in Dec. 09 as well, but I just don't see this happening.

[iMoose]

Sal just posted on his twitter that Tour 2 release date is "looking good" for sometime between Dec 20th - Jan 15th!

Alejandro Salomon (salomondrin) on Twitter

Disregard everything I said

Yay!!!

[Lateralus]

Sal just posted on his twitter that Tour 2 release date is "looking good" for sometime between Dec 20th - Jan 15th!

Alejandro Salomon (salomondrin) on Twitter

i hope he's right!

[Mr.Monty]

Maybe my trackball will continue it's downhill path and will fail right around the time of the Essex release. 4x of the same problem, maybe I can get hooked up. I would really like to get rid of this trackball.

[bobthemagicman]

@bobthemagicman, you said "There was not very much time between the Storm 1 and Storm 2, so everyone who keeps say "at least a year from the tour 1 release", please get a clue and stop trying to burst everyone's bubble, its rude, unless of course you actually have evidence to back your claim up"

I got my Storm in January after the first OS update came out, the Storm dropped in Nov 2008, same time as the Storm2 but a year earlier, the Curve2 just came out on VZW and the Bold2 dropped over a year after the original Bold. How's that for evidence?

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles, I REALLY want the updated Tour!!! I hope that RIM breaks from their normal pattern and gets this one out much faster, I really do. I think the fact that there are Verizon branded units out there is a very positive sign. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

Yes you are correct, my comments were directed at a couple people who appear to be just posting summer dates because they are blindly believing summer just because without looking at the evidence. Thank you for the info on the Storm, I was under the misguided impression that the Storm 1 came out in approax. June of 2009. But now that I think about it you are correct the Storm release was about a year apart.

[bmd900]

I seriously can't wait for the essex to come out. My only upgrade right now is ths S2!! I need more options!!

[ahmunaeatchu]

Yes you are correct, my comments were directed at a couple people who appear to be just posting summer dates because they are blindly believing summer just because without looking at the evidence. Thank you for the info on the Storm, I was under the misguided impression that the Storm 1 came out in approax. June of 2009. But now that I think about it you are correct the Storm release was about a year apart.

people who are saying really outlandishly late dates like july 2010 are most likely tour1 owners who are just mad.

[iMoose]

Yes you are correct, my comments were directed at a couple people who appear to be just posting summer dates because they are blindly believing summer just because without looking at the evidence. Thank you for the info on the Storm, I was under the misguided impression that the Storm 1 came out in approax. June of 2009. But now that I think about it you are correct the Storm release was about a year apart.

Bob, I wasn't trying to get into your face or anything, I'm just such a crackhead I can remember BB release dates but have trouble with my kid's birthdays
I based my thinking on the following: Curve 8330 was May '08, Curve2 11/09, Bold1 was 07/08 (late), Bold2 11/09, Storm1 was 11/08, Storm2, which was sorely needed, was 11/09, Tour1 07/09, Tour2...I hope really soon. I want the wifi so bad, my 3G sucks in my house and I jump between 1X and 3G all the time when I'm home so data and installing programs crawls. If you google the Tour there are stories that says there's a 50% return rate on them, that might compel RIM and VZW to push out the Tour2 quicker, also, the Tour is the flagship BB for VZW and Sprint, but it doesn't have the same features as the entry level Curve. So, considering that and Sal's tweet last night, I now believe it's release could be imminent.

[Mike1022]

Was Sal talking about a release date for Verizon or Sprint or both?

[eve6er69]

I don't know if we know if it is for verizon or sprint.
I do know the unit that he was testing was a sprint model

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[NM08SRT8]

He's doing a giveaway of a VZW and Sprint Tour2/Essex so he does have both. He also has the video review/overview of it

Giveaway ended Saturday, and the two winners are announced on the 7th

[Grafixx01#AC]

My opinion (and I have a bad habit of being completely wrong about this stuff) is that we'll see the "Tour 2" in early Q1 2010. I would love to see in Dec. 09
as well, but I just don't see this happening.

I'm not saying that you're wrong and I'd love to see it but I think VZW will severely **** a lot of people off if they released the phone in January with the WiFi, trackpad, and additional internal memory when the Tour originally got released less than a year prior to the Tour2.

I'm going to get the Tour2 when it drops, but the thing is that VZW should be doing something for the customers who got the original when it was released like give it for $100.00 with an updated contract or something similar cause I'll do it but still.

Ya know?