06-19-11 12:45 PM
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  1. Economist101's Avatar
    It's not often that Apple is behind the curve, but when they finally round the bend its greeted as some earth-shattering, almost unfathomable triumph (like when they decided it would be ok to read books in digital format). The industry leaders are always supposed to wilt and die, just like Amazon (remember them and their kindle thing?).
    When you say "decided it would be ok to read books in digital format," you mean their approval of the Kindle for iPhone app a year before the iPad launch? Or do you mean them launching the iPad? I don't ever recall a time when Apple (or any other company, for that matter) claimed it wasn't "ok" to read books in a digital format.

    The industry leaders are always supposed to wilt and die, just like Amazon (remember them and their kindle thing?).
    The people that thought Amazon was going to wilt and die also believed the moon landing was faked. Is their opinion really worth anything? As for the "Kindle" thing, I've never heard any sales numbers because Amazon hasn't released them. I'm a big fan of the Kindle apps, though.

    So we see this rush to judgment, as if there's a concerted effort to push RIM over the cliff before they get traction in new markets. Companies fight with each other like this all the time, but its made tougher for RIM because Apple is everyone's darling.
    It has nothing to do with pushing anyone over a cliff. No amount of analyst chatter could bring down RIM as long as they're making $950 million in profit per quarter. The real problem that RIM faces is that many want to be the first person/organization to say that the iPad will fail, or that Chrome will, or that RIM will never get back to where it used to be. It has nothing to do with pushing anything over a cliff, and everything to do with predicting when the target will simply fall off on its own.

    As for Apple being "everyone's darling," that's simply not accurate. As of mid-May, Apple's P/E ratio fell to its lowest level since the U.S. financial crisis, despite 92% earnings growth. A lot of people predicted the failure of Apple retail, the iPod, the iPhone, and the iPad, just last year. Now, is their coverage mostly favorable? Sure it is. But their results are fantastic, so you'd have to expect favorable coverage, kind of like RIM received when it was on top, and even Microsoft before the antitrust allegations.
    chiefbroski likes this.
    06-08-11 11:40 AM
  2. mmcpher's Avatar
    When you say "decided it would be ok to read books in digital format," you mean their approval of the Kindle for iPhone app a year before the iPad launch? Or do you mean them launching the iPad? I don't ever recall a time when Apple (or any other company, for that matter) claimed it wasn't "ok" to read books in a digital format.

    From the New York Times, January 15, 2008, "The Passion of Steve Jobs", quoting Mr. Jobs at length:

    Today he had a wide range of observations on the industry, including the Amazon Kindle book reader, which he said would go nowhere largely because Americans have stopped reading.
    It doesnt matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people dont read anymore, he said. Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole conception is flawed at the top because people dont read anymore.
    He was equally skeptical about Googles decision to develop smartphone software. . . .
    Well see how good their software is and well see how consumers like it and how quickly it is adopted. In seeking not to get locked out of the mobile phone world, I actually think Google has achieved their goal without Android, and I now think Android hurts them more than it helps them."
    It would be a mistake to assume that Mr. Jobs was mistaken back in early 2008 when he said that Kindle and e-readers and Android had no future. If you followed Jobs' history, his critical and dismissive remarks would suggest the opposite, that he viewed those things as Apple rivals, so he was engaging in what he has always masterfully done, a preemptive disinformation campaign against a competitor. It was ever thus with Jobs and Apple, and it's usually worked like a charm, so why not? What is damning is the way the tech press continues to line up with their tounges hanging out to be spoon fed this stuff each time Cupertino beckons.

    Its not all corporate fun and games, though. When Apple decided to "get into" the e-reader end of the business, they launched another offensive against Amazon, chiding them for mismanaging their dealings with publishers and missing the proper pricing point. And overnight following the launch of the Ipad, the cost of titles previously available on Kindle, Sony, etc., spiked and almost double in some cases. Jobs was at his high-handiest, dismissive best during the weeks following the launch of Ipad, but it was strange, given that Apple had just launched their own ereading app with great fanfare, to watch as he embarked on a campaign seemingly designed to choke off a growing market through artificially elevated pricing and limited access.

    E-reading before the Ipad had been a wonderful surprise. This unexpected opportunity to bring more new authors to more new readers more easily and more universally than ever before. The re-birth of many out-of-print authors and titles through the reanimation through automation of the vast and largely forgotten treasures in the public domain. The out-of-print back catalogs of fading authors suddenly showing new legs, fed, in part, by Amazon's brisk trading in used books online. And now comes Apple, and now comes Ipad, and its all been done wrong, because its too cheap and too accessible. And its too dull, lacks the Apple multi-media magic. Turns out the quality of the actual written words is beside the point, as the words are just something to hang an app, a widget, a song, a video onto.

    Yet we read on without these enhancements. Maybe its something inherent in the books? I have always objected to Apple's studied snideness and snobbery, but I hadn't realized how much it has been assimilated into their operating DNA until the Kindle episode. Apple and Jobs are gifted at creating bright and joyful adds and buzz about their products, but they are equally careful to seed in an undergrowth of petty, vindictive, almost pre-adolescent snipery against their competitors. The submliminal message is ever present, and it sure sours over time.


    There were the usual protestations but it was clear that Apple was spear-heading the drive to bleed the ereading customer base white, with many of the publishers clammoring on board. Apple has perfected its mixture of fear and greed -- publishers were afraid to risk the ire of Apple, and afraid to miss the promised pof of gold. And how critical could the press be, when they had also signed on? How objective could the New York Times be in covering Apple, when it had banked its future, in part, on the success of its very own Ipad App?
    andyahs, papped and chiefbroski like this.
    06-08-11 01:17 PM
  3. chiefbroski's Avatar
    For an experiment, type in "RIM is " without pressing enter in a google search and watch what types of words are most common. Its sad to see how much people love to hear bad news...even if its not true...or actually, especially when its not true/hard to believe. I admit I'm a blackberry fan...and I can appreciate when another company does well such as apple. I am really just disappointed in the media these days. Journalism chooses the easy way to make money and misrepresents the facts as bad news to obtain readership. Apple has the media in the palm of their hand and its naive to think they wouldn't use it to their advantage.
    Last edited by chiefbroski; 06-08-11 at 08:14 PM.
    06-08-11 07:18 PM
  4. mmcpher's Avatar
    Never mind the media, just take a look at this forum! I checked this afternoon and 11 out of the top 15 threads were variations on the "Apple Ascends, RIM Craters" theme. Its really casting a pall over certain sections of this site and I don't envy the moderators trying to walk the line of allowing open discourse while fending off those not posting in good faith. RIM's status relative to its competitors is obviously of interest, but it gets hard wading through all of the threads and posts that start off, "I'm a RIM fan but their hardware, software, personnel and logo have always sucked and its doomed to die horribly which is why I love it so. . . ." The Concern Troll, pretending to be wringing their hands in worry but allowing their glee to ooze through.
    Last edited by mmcpher; 06-08-11 at 08:53 PM.
    06-08-11 08:50 PM
  5. kevinnugent's Avatar
    @ mccpher - too true. Beautifully written.


    While we may not see a dramatic upturn of Rim in a year, I think in two years they will be stronger with newer phones and stronger QNX platform.
    Personally, they either change their management in the next few months or some investors will do it for them. It'll cost a lot to get rid of the co-CEO's but the subsequent upswing in share price should more than make up for it.
    06-08-11 09:28 PM
  6. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    RIM has shown no signs of pulling their heads out. Nada. Why aren't the RIM "faithful" tired of truncated emails, no 4G phones, wonky OS's, etc? About the only thing they do well is BBM and they have bright screens (not high res, though) and loud speakers. Other than that, they basically SUCK--browsing the web on my Storm is an exercise in frustration that I avoid at all costs and that's a pisser, given that I pay $30/month per line for internet access.
    I am with Jake. You do flip-flop.....a lot!

    Also 4G won't be huge till next year. A lot of places still don't have 3G coverage.

    Wonky OS's? I have yet to run into that, but I don't own a Storm anymore, lol! Truncated emails don't bother me as long as I know what they are, so no bigge. Maybe to some, but I am sure many are with me there...and yeah sure it would be nice if it wasn't there, but isn't a nail in the coffin for me...

    There are plenty of people that will want and get these new BB's....mark it! Maybe not you, but like they say, there are plenty of fish in the sea....

    Now onto rip off city in Apple and their iMessage...it is basically BBM on their phone, just their own name....hello, what is wrong with that pic...and now finally notifications and earlier it was copy and paste....still don't multi-task for crap!

    Sure iP5 will sell like hotcakes, no doubt as their marketing is pure genius, however a lot of people think Rim is dead and is not true....at all.

    Come these new phones a slight change will happen. Come QNX on phones, I honestly believe it will be a game changer for BB.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-11 11:20 PM
  7. buwee's Avatar
    I am with Jake. You do flip-flop.....a lot!

    Also 4G won't be huge till next year. A lot of places still don't have 3G coverage.

    Wonky OS's? I have yet to run into that, but I don't own a Storm anymore, lol! Truncated emails don't bother me as long as I know what they are, so no bigge. Maybe to some, but I am sure many are with me there...and yeah sure it would be nice if it wasn't there, but isn't a nail in the coffin for me...

    There are plenty of people that will want and get these new BB's....mark it! Maybe not you, but like they say, there are plenty of fish in the sea....

    Now onto rip off city in Apple and their iMessage...it is basically BBM on their phone, just their own name....hello, what is wrong with that pic...and now finally notifications and earlier it was copy and paste....still don't multi-task for crap!

    Sure iP5 will sell like hotcakes, no doubt as their marketing is pure genius, however a lot of people think Rim is dead and is not true....at all.

    Come these new phones a slight change will happen. Come QNX on phones, I honestly believe it will be a game changer for BB.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree, I've seen him flip flop like a LOT too! Maybe he should rename himself to FLIPDAVE
    06-09-11 12:40 AM
  8. brucep1's Avatar
    Jeez it seems like every negative thread about RIM gets moved into a section nobody cares about. I don't understand how some of these aren't news? What is supposed to go in the news and rumors section? Just positive articles about RIM?

    At the small chance RIM reads these sites, they will now see only the positive sections of the forum. Perhaps not the reason that people point out its shortcomings.
    06-09-11 06:35 AM
  9. red777's Avatar
    Oh God!! Not another post like this. Seriously?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 10:04 AM
  10. John Yester's Avatar
    Jeez it seems like every negative thread about RIM gets moved into a section nobody cares about. I don't understand how some of these aren't news? What is supposed to go in the news and rumors section? Just positive articles about RIM?

    At the small chance RIM reads these sites, they will now see only the positive sections of the forum. Perhaps not the reason that people point out its shortcomings.

    LOL really?

    Mostly because media sharks feed off of one small problem in any company out there and they make it seem like it's the end of the world. Plus relentless bantering does not accomplish anything. Half of the discussion is off topic and does not accomplish anything.
    06-09-11 10:33 AM
  11. blue81to's Avatar
    Someone who was already in the Apple ecosystem would not have moved out due to BBM in the first place though...
    My first experience with a smartphone like device was an Intermec CN3 which I used for work to scan inventory about 2 years ago. I couldn't make calls on it, but I could use the internet and google maps app. I especially liked the google maps app. The gps didn't work but back then I used map books for navigation. Sometimes I would travel to places that weren't on my map book so I had to use the google maps app.
    Mobile Computer | CN3 Handheld Computer | CN3 GPRS

    My mom bought me my first smartphone which was an iPhone 3g about a little more than a year ago. At first I still mostly used my Intermec because I had gotten used to using it. But then after using my iPhone for a while I realized how much better the internet browser was. I couldn't download apps on my Intermec or play games or listen to mp3 files.
    iPhone 3G - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I left AT&T because of a $600 dollar phone bill that was accumulated in a months time after letting my sister and brother hold my phone for a while. Of course they wont pay it and neither will I.

    My case maybe less common than most. I'm looking for a cheaper plan from one of the low priced carriers. For me, Virgin Mobile USA's $25(about $37 with $10 BIS plus tax) plan for 300 minutes(talk) and unlimited internet seems to be the best option for my needs. Virgin Mobile doesn't have iPhone but they do have Android and blackberry devices. What attracts me to blackberry is bbm, which my friends have.


    Even before I ended my service with AT&T. I wasn't completely sold on the iPhone as an actual phone. I thoroughly enjoy the apps and media functionality of the device itself. At various times I had as many as 170+ apps installed on my iPhone 3g at once. I have 201 apps in my iTunes desktop application. That's about 4.56 GBs of apps. I can feel the lure of the Apple mobile device ecosystem. In my case the attraction of the Apple ecosystem is somewhat of a moot point in regards to which smartphone I'll use in the future, considering that I enjoy using my iPhone just as much with or without phone service. I use it mostly for playing games, browsing the internet(wifi), watch youtube(wifi), or movies, tvguide, read books and stuff like that.

    So, I can't say that I'm leaving the Apple ecosystem completely for bbm. But I can say that I'm leaving iPhone as a phone for bbm. But also because I want to go to a cheaper carrier. Things like google maps, weather, etc, that I used on my iPhone when I had phone service can also be done on a blackberry. I would probably miss the web browser although I haven't tried blackberry's web browser yet. From what I hear, it's quite crappy.

    Sometimes I wonder why I want a blackberry. I really don't need a smart phone right now. That's why I want the cheapest plan I can get. When I get a blackberry I want it to make me feel less empty inside and feel more motivated.
    06-09-11 01:58 PM
  12. blue81to's Avatar
    Seriously guys, we can't bury our head in the sand about this. I read through what was revealed today, and then looked at my BlackBerry 9700 with dismay.

    It's even more depressing to think what they're replacing it with - the Bold 9900. It doesn't even have a front facing camera and that is a basic expectation for a smartphone now.

    RIM have truly rested on their laurels, and now they're falling behind and they're in serious, serious trouble.
    Look at this


    I don't want them watching me on my phone.
    06-09-11 02:10 PM
  13. X_iPod-BB's Avatar
    IMO I don't really think you're 100% correct here saying that this is going to be the death of RIM. iPhones are targeted at fairly-rich people who can afford to splash 400 squitters on a phone and there is no alternative for people who just don't have that kind of money full stop.

    RIM is unique because of it's ranges in price and it's different smartphone choices. If a Bold or a Torch is completely out of reach price-wise and you really want a smartphone then you can get the curve. It is by far a lot cheaper than most other good smartphones. RIM has a range of different phones. There is no iPhone Qwerty or an iPhone Square or any real range, there is only one spotlight model and all of it's different versions (which all look quite the same and are supposed to be just an improvement of the previous).

    Yes apple might have better software but don't forget RIM can always improve and develop their software, just like people were "developing" BBM to make a version for the HTC ect. Though I don't really agree with them copying BBM completely.
    06-11-11 04:30 AM
  14. Snick Snack's Avatar
    My first experience with a smartphone like device was an Intermec CN3 which I used for work to scan inventory about 2 years ago. I couldn't make calls on it, but I could use the internet and google maps app. I especially liked the google maps app. The gps didn't work but back then I used map books for navigation. Sometimes I would travel to places that weren't on my map book so I had to use the google maps app.
    Mobile Computer | CN3 Handheld Computer | CN3 GPRS

    My mom bought me my first smartphone which was an iPhone 3g about a little more than a year ago. At first I still mostly used my Intermec because I had gotten used to using it. But then after using my iPhone for a while I realized how much better the internet browser was. I couldn't download apps on my Intermec or play games or listen to mp3 files.
    iPhone 3G - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I left AT&T because of a $600 dollar phone bill that was accumulated in a months time after letting my sister and brother hold my phone for a while. Of course they wont pay it and neither will I.

    My case maybe less common than most. I'm looking for a cheaper plan from one of the low priced carriers. For me, Virgin Mobile USA's $25(about $37 with $10 BIS plus tax) plan for 300 minutes(talk) and unlimited internet seems to be the best option for my needs. Virgin Mobile doesn't have iPhone but they do have Android and blackberry devices. What attracts me to blackberry is bbm, which my friends have.


    Even before I ended my service with AT&T. I wasn't completely sold on the iPhone as an actual phone. I thoroughly enjoy the apps and media functionality of the device itself. At various times I had as many as 170+ apps installed on my iPhone 3g at once. I have 201 apps in my iTunes desktop application. That's about 4.56 GBs of apps. I can feel the lure of the Apple mobile device ecosystem. In my case the attraction of the Apple ecosystem is somewhat of a moot point in regards to which smartphone I'll use in the future, considering that I enjoy using my iPhone just as much with or without phone service. I use it mostly for playing games, browsing the internet(wifi), watch youtube(wifi), or movies, tvguide, read books and stuff like that.

    So, I can't say that I'm leaving the Apple ecosystem completely for bbm. But I can say that I'm leaving iPhone as a phone for bbm. But also because I want to go to a cheaper carrier. Things like google maps, weather, etc, that I used on my iPhone when I had phone service can also be done on a blackberry. I would probably miss the web browser although I haven't tried blackberry's web browser yet. From what I hear, it's quite crappy.

    Sometimes I wonder why I want a blackberry. I really don't need a smart phone right now. That's why I want the cheapest plan I can get. When I get a blackberry I want it to make me feel less empty inside and feel more motivated.
    BBM is the best messaging tool bar none. My son uses it constantly. A group update is great, everybody gets the same message at exactly the same time and you actually get more data because the data is compressed. For example 1GB on Blackberry will get you 10,000 texts/emails/BBMs while you only get 3000 on iPhone and Android.

    If you like the ecosystem of the iPhone, get the iPod Touch. You get all your apps, games etc., access to wi-fi but just not the phone.

    Now you'll have a reliable BB phone and an iPod for all your other fun stuff. Best of both world.

    But a phone isn't going to give you the motivation you're looking for. You need to dig around and find it within yourself. No device will be able to do that for you.
    06-12-11 02:17 AM
  15. Shad0w26's Avatar
    06-19-11 11:52 AM
  16. southlander's Avatar
    For an experiment, type in "RIM is " without pressing enter in a google search and watch what types of words are most common. Its sad to see how much people love to hear bad news...even if its not true...or actually, especially when its not true/hard to believe. I admit I'm a blackberry fan...and I can appreciate when another company does well such as apple. I am really just disappointed in the media these days. Journalism chooses the easy way to make money and misrepresents the facts as bad news to obtain readership. Apple has the media in the palm of their hand and its naive to think they wouldn't use it to their advantage.
    Doing this, I get bad things for RIM, Apple, Google and Microsoft. People just want to see successful companies/people fail. I am pretty sure I could hunt up some doomsday articles about Apple from 1996 when their stock was around $10/share. Seems to happen to all these companies.
    06-19-11 12:45 PM
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