06-19-11 12:45 PM
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  1. i7guy's Avatar
    I don't think this is the end of RIM at all but iMessage will adapt fast because of the rate that iOS devices are selling. It's not just about the iPhone. The iPods and iPads because many of those users don't have iPhones. Now they can chat with their friends that do have iPhones. If Apple really wants to kill RIM and make it a 2-man race (which is pretty much been anyway for the last couple years) between them and google is get the device out on all carriers or at least make a pentaband phone that is compatible with everyone's 3G network. If they did either one of those.... game over for RIM. Seriously.
    There would be one rim user left then me! I would probably have to go to wp7 if rim folded.
    06-07-11 09:28 AM
  2. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    There would be one rim user left then me! I would probably have to go to wp7 if rim folded.
    LOL. I don't think we have to worry about RIM folding anytime soon
    06-07-11 09:39 AM
  3. WillHeSurvive's Avatar
    Should the OP add "I love RIM and BB, they are the best ever!" in his post? Would that exclude him from the troll lineup?
    No... but how does one prove that they are not a troll. My point to the OP was if your are not trolling, why even bother defending/proving something that you know your not. Being called a troll on this site has become away to silence any negative comment about RIMM/BBOS .I was just trying to let the OP know that trying to prove that you are not a troll,on this site, means never saying anything negative about RIMM.
    06-07-11 09:39 AM
  4. avt123's Avatar
    No... but how does one prove that they are not a troll. My point to the OP was if your are not trolling, why even bother defending/proving something that you know your not. Being called a troll on this site has become away to silence any negative comment about RIMM/BBOS .I was just trying to let the OP know that trying to prove that you are not a troll,on this site, means never saying anything negative about RIMM.
    I don't know. I guess there must be a guide floating around somewhere, because it's always the same people calling others trolls, so they must have some sort of inside scoop.

    Being called a troll nowadays does not silence anything. It leads to people being reported for harassment/personal attacks. If someone is going to troll, being called one isn't going to stop them. Trolls don't care. They are here to start problems. Trust me, I have been here before all of this troll name calling and actual trolls came around.
    06-07-11 09:43 AM
  5. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    No... but how does one prove that they are not a troll. My point to the OP was if your are not trolling, why even bother defending/proving something that you know your not. Being called a troll on this site has become away to silence any negative comment about RIMM/BBOS .I was just trying to let the OP know that trying to prove that you are not a troll,on this site, means never saying anything negative about RIMM.
    I agree. And it's sad that people have to preface their statements so overly defensive tech wannabes don't call them trolls. And you're right, if someone says a negative thing or post something negative they are automatically a trolls. That's just a passive aggressive way of disregarding the content of someones comment just because they don't like the truth. People shouldn't care what people label them as anyhow. As long as they are commenting on the device, platform, company and not personally attacking people, forget what others think. Momma always said "it is the insecure that feels the need to attack everyone else". That's true in life and unfortunately on this site.
    Last edited by scorpiodsu; 06-07-11 at 11:22 AM.
    06-07-11 09:46 AM
  6. WillHeSurvive's Avatar
    I don't know. I guess there must be a guide floating around somewhere, because it's always the same people calling others trolls, so they must have some sort of inside scoop.

    Being called a troll nowadays does not silence anything. It leads to people being reported for harassment/personal attacks. If someone is going to troll, being called one isn't going to stop them. Trolls don't care. They are here to start problems. Trust me, I have been here before all of this troll name calling and actual trolls came around.
    Exactly! That's my point. Trying to prove you not a troll is useless.State your argument,call it like you see it, and let the chips fall were they may. Don't get into this I have prove myself to anyone because I feel that BBs are not,IMHO, up to par with the competition.
    06-07-11 09:53 AM
  7. lnichols's Avatar
    So many angry Android and iOS users out there. They have nothing better to do than to come to Crackberry and spread the word about their respective platforms. When did it become the smart phone iNquisition? You should be enjoying your devices and polluting those devices respective forums.
    06-07-11 09:54 AM
  8. avt123's Avatar
    Exactly! That's my point. Trying to prove you not a troll is useless.State your argument,call it like you see it, and let the chips fall were they may. Don't get into this I have prove myself to anyone because I feel that BBs are not,IMHO, up to par with the competition.
    I completely agree. Troll comments are useless. People are just better off reporting.

    I also agree that no one should have to prove anything to anyone. Unless of course you are comparing products. Then you need to back yourself up. But there is no need to prove your not a troll. There are those who will just call you one for the **** of it anyways.
    06-07-11 10:13 AM
  9. FigureThisOut's Avatar
    As big as an Apple fan that I am, I find this all typical, overemotional, overreaction.
    "RIM is dead" blah blah blah. This is like the Monday morning after an NFL Sunday.
    Everyone is still invested in what they just saw just a short time ago and overreact
    to everything. This isn't the end of RIM. Let the days pass, and the emotions settle.
    06-07-11 11:56 AM
  10. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    As big as an Apple fan that I am, I find this all typical, overemotional, overreaction.
    "RIM is dead" blah blah blah. This is like the Monday morning after an NFL Sunday.
    Everyone is still invested in what they just saw just a short time ago and overreact
    to everything. This isn't the end of RIM. Let the days pass, and the emotions settle.
    Agreed. And a lot of it is started by some of the BB "faithful" who've been waiting for RIM for a couple years.
    06-07-11 11:58 AM
  11. Snick Snack's Avatar

    While some people may be concerned about data compression, saying that the BB allows 160 e-mails a day in the space other devices send 80 is only going to appeal to hard-core users. I don't think I've sent 80 emails in the last *week* from my phone.


    BTW I'm not your typical Smartphone consumer. On average I receive 50 work emails a day with 95% of those requiring a response and 15% of those come with attachment(s). This typical daily communication for our sales team. This is not including the additional 15-20 work emails I send over and above the ones I respond to.


    As you once asked in a response to my comment, I'd love to see the "study" that says the BB can reduce the amount of data needed to view attachments by 95%.
    Here is the link, it's about compression of data being sent:

    iPhone Users Are Data Hogs Using 5x the Data of BlackBerry Users - BerryReview

    And a real case study on why data compression is important:

    http://ca.blackberry.com/newsroom/su..._TCS_FINAL.pdf


    This is a rather broad statement, and trust my, "large app library" is the first thing on somebody's mind. It may not be driving sales for a large number of consumers, but that's a world away from it not being foremost to "anybody."
    So you're discrediting Kevin M's heirarchy of cell phone needs?

    CrackBerry Kevins Hierarchy of Smartphone Needs | CrackBerry.com

    I have a total of 5 apps on my BB. Two of those are for my husband to keep track of sports scores if we're out and about.

    I don't use twitter, I get enough email info in a day, don't need to wade through more! The apps I use more: Blackberry Traffic and Facebook.

    When my friends shop for phones, apps is not on the top of their lists and they're not all BB users.



    It is a battle of functionality, but iOS and Android users are of the opinion that you can have the specs AND the functionality. It need not be an either/or, and if the PlayBook signals RIM's new direction, they understand this completely.
    Ultimately a person chooses which platform works best for them. To figure that it is the end of RIM because of there are brands currently "hotter" then rim is rather myopic. That's like saying LCD TV is dying because Plasma TVs are more popular at the moment or that the mini cooper is on its way out because the prius is more popular.
    Last edited by Snick Snack; 06-07-11 at 01:06 PM.
    06-07-11 01:02 PM
  12. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    I completely agree. Troll comments are useless. People are just better off reporting.

    But there is no need to prove your not a troll. There are those who will just call you one for the **** of it anyways.
    I have had to clarify that I am not a troll a few times. It doesn't matter what I have said before or after one particular post. If I agree with a certain comment or argue the other side (which everyone should do anyways) I am called a troll.

    Annoying. People can have different opinions and they are allowed to voice them. It's okay to admit that RIM has made a lot of bad decisions and still love your platform. It's okay to like Apple products too. While many of you don't see innovation from them the fact of the matter is this: Apple creates native apps that work extremely well for their platform.

    RIM does this too, however, their execution is sometimes off and there apps have shortcomings. While this is natural, Apple does seem to be able to integrate their native apps into their OS much better. This includes Mac OS X.
    06-07-11 01:27 PM
  13. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Here is the link, it's about compression of data being sent:

    iPhone Users Are Data Hogs Using 5x the Data of BlackBerry Users - BerryReview

    And a real case study on why data compression is important:

    http://ca.blackberry.com/newsroom/su..._TCS_FINAL.pdf
    Neither of those links has anything related to data compression.

    The study that shows iPhone users consuming more data compared to BlackBerry on a monthly basis only demonstrates that iPhone users are streaming more video/music/media than BlackBerry users. Which is mainly attributed to increased hardware specs allowing for services designed solely for the purpose of streaming content.
    brucep1 and boldman4 like this.
    06-07-11 01:36 PM
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Neither of those links has anything related to data compression.

    The study that shows iPhone users consuming more data compared to BlackBerry on a monthly basis only demonstrates that iPhone users are streaming more video/music/media than BlackBerry users. Which is mainly attributed to increased hardware specs allowing for services designed solely for the purpose of streaming content.

    http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.por...l=wrlsDataCalc

    select the data Calculator and pick the Blackberry, then Pick the Smartphone

    for 1731 text emails and 1351 webpages
    they estimate Blackberry's will use 100MB and other smartphones will use 260MB
    06-07-11 01:52 PM
  15. Snick Snack's Avatar
    Neither of those links has anything related to data compression.

    The study that shows iPhone users consuming more data compared to BlackBerry on a monthly basis only demonstrates that iPhone users are streaming more video/music/media than BlackBerry users. Which is mainly attributed to increased hardware specs allowing for services designed solely for the purpose of streaming content.
    And its a chicken and egg approach. Increase the specs to handle the data usage/consumption without having to deal with delivery efficiency.

    More data is consumed when it isn't compressed. This link backs up the BB Review report

    Exclusive: iPhones hog much more data than other smart phones

    It includes all data useage in the study.

    Data is data whether it is email/text or web surfing.

    Without proper data compression the results is what the study is showing.

    With data compression the usage is decreased. It's the same as sending a picture in an email. You can compressed a 12 megapixel picture from 2 gb to under 1 gb and have it get through faster and not get dumped because the recipient's email can't accept a big file.

    With proper data compression you won't exceed your monthly data usage but without data compression you can easily go over that. The carriers don't care because you're going to pay them more money.

    But ultimately why do I have to pay for data overage when I have a device that can compress data and move it more efficiently?
    06-07-11 02:33 PM
  16. flyersfan76's Avatar
    Death of Research in Motion, probably not. But Blackberry Phones is a possibly but a lot has to do with Marketing. RIM as a corporation is so deep and owning QNX can't be all that bad even if it isn't a consumer product.

    There is much out in the world that the general consumer doesn't even know exists and these companies making them seem to be doing just fine.
    06-07-11 02:39 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    I have had to clarify that I am not a troll a few times. It doesn't matter what I have said before or after one particular post. If I agree with a certain comment or argue the other side (which everyone should do anyways) I am called a troll.

    Annoying. People can have different opinions and they are allowed to voice them. It's okay to admit that RIM has made a lot of bad decisions and still love your platform. It's okay to like Apple products too. While many of you don't see innovation from them the fact of the matter is this: Apple creates native apps that work extremely well for their platform.

    RIM does this too, however, their execution is sometimes off and there apps have shortcomings. While this is natural, Apple does seem to be able to integrate their native apps into their OS much better. This includes Mac OS X.
    Agreed. Opinions are like a-holes, we all have them (sorry for those who don't).

    The people who are calling out trolls are basically trolling the trolls. Just do not respond and report the post. Participating on a forum doesn't consist of constantly posting in threads you know are going to **** you off with people you know are going to **** you off.

    Oh well, some people will never learn.
    06-07-11 05:50 PM
  18. Economist101's Avatar
    BTW I'm not your typical Smartphone consumer. On average I receive 50 work emails a day with 95% of those requiring a response and 15% of those come with attachment(s). This typical daily communication for our sales team. This is not including the additional 15-20 work emails I send over and above the ones I respond to.
    That was precisely my point. Most users are not sending 160 e-mails a day.

    Here is the link, it's about compression of data being sent:

    iPhone Users Are Data Hogs Using 5x the Data of BlackBerry Users - BerryReview

    And a real case study on why data compression is important:

    http://ca.blackberry.com/newsroom/su..._TCS_FINAL.pdf
    You claimed attachments that would burn through 1 GB of iPhone data could be downloaded on your BB in only 50 MB, a 95% reduction. Neither of these links supports that assertion. I never claimed the amount of data usage was equal; I merely doubted the 95% reduction. If what you provided is the best proof you have, I think I'll have to call "BS" on your claim.

    So you're discrediting Kevin M's heirarchy of cell phone needs?

    CrackBerry Kevins Hierarchy of Smartphone Needs | CrackBerry.com
    Not at all. He gets an opinion like everyone else.

    I have a total of 5 apps on my BB. Two of those are for my husband to keep track of sports scores if we're out and about.

    I don't use twitter, I get enough email info in a day, don't need to wade through more! The apps I use more: Blackberry Traffic and Facebook.

    When my friends shop for phones, apps is not on the top of their lists and they're not all BB users.
    .
    That's all fine. But in this very same post you admitted you are not the typical user, so we can't use your example to describe the market as a whole. A subset of the market is like you, but your usage is atypical. Further, I never said that apps are the first thing that "everyone" considers. I simply noted that it's foolish to claim that "no one" considers apps as an initial qualification.

    Ultimately a person chooses which platform works best for them. To figure that it is the end of RIM because of there are brands currently "hotter" then rim is rather myopic. That's like saying LCD TV is dying because Plasma TVs are more popular at the moment or that the mini cooper is on its way out because the prius is more popular.
    I've never once claimed anything was the "end" of RIM. Not once. Further, offering blanket statements like "no one looks at apps first" is as "myopic" as suggesting the end is near for RIM. It's unwise to try and fight myopia with more myopia.
    06-07-11 06:18 PM
  19. Snick Snack's Avatar
    That was precisely my point. Most users are not sending 160 e-mails a day.



    You claimed attachments that would burn through 1 GB of iPhone data could be downloaded on your BB in only 50 MB, a 95% reduction. Neither of these links supports that assertion. I never claimed the amount of data usage was equal; I merely doubted the 95% reduction. If what you provided is the best proof you have, I think I'll have to call "BS" on your claim.
    Okay let me clarify a little more. My colleague goes through 1GB of data a month without opening all her emails and attachments. Meanwhile I open everything and go through less 500 mb (I missed the 0) on my original post.

    Another poster provided this link about data compression:
    http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.por...l=wrlsDataCalc


    That's all fine. But in this very same post you admitted you are not the typical user, so we can't use your example to describe the market as a whole. A subset of the market is like you, but your usage is atypical. Further, I never said that apps are the first thing that "everyone" considers. I simply noted that it's foolish to claim that "no one" considers apps as an initial qualification.
    I used the wrong term on this. I should have said not "everyone" considers that amount of available apps as the determining factor for choosing their phone. Instead I used "anyone" my bad. My intent was there. You can choose the semantics.

    I've never once claimed anything was the "end" of RIM. Not once.
    The original post on this thread is "The End of Rim" and I still stand by my point on that. I didn't say you were the one that claimed "end of rim". I didn't write that at all. It wasn't an attack on your viewpoint, it was a way of steering the post back to topic which we have wandered way off.


    Further, offering blanket statements like "no one looks at apps first" is as "myopic" as suggesting the end is near for RIM. It's unwise to try and fight myopia with more myopia.
    If you're bringing this back to the apps point again, may I ask if that is your first choice in phone selection? I'm curious. Is the amount of available apps your deal breaker?
    06-08-11 01:29 AM
  20. mmcpher's Avatar
    I don't particularly like Apple, Apple products or Apple software. It' a hugely successful aesthetic that leaves me cold. So why should I care that IOS5 is going to incorporate stuff that's been on other smartphones for years? IT departments are going to swoon because of messaging and notifications? It's not often that Apple is behind the curve, but when they finally round the bend its greeted as some earth-shattering, almost unfathomable triumph (like when they decided it would be ok to read books in digital format). The industry leaders are always supposed to wilt and die, just like Amazon (remember them and their kindle thing?).

    A few years back Apple decided it would venture from its perch as the choice of cool elites and stooped to put Iphones in everyone's hands, even the less than insanely great among us. They've done a remarkable job of maintaining cutting edge cache even as they've mainstreamed. But Amazon had the temerity to survive and there's this other company called google that has phone, tablet and pc software. And a lot of people quite like it. And you don't have to pay the Apple premium.

    Apple has repeatedly tried to dismiss google but that effort has been overwhelmed by the market and made Apple look silly and I think, despite the staggering profits and market growth, I am beginning to think Appledom is somehow rattled. There's this growing awareness that there are competitors that can't be decimated simply by looking down your nose at them. So the Apple fans and tech press under Apple' considerable sphere of influence are hungering for some other prey, and RIM is the target of choice.

    If Apple can divide the world into Apple vs google, they can go ahead and ramp up their monetizing of information and communication to an unparalleled degree. They've come far nickle-and-diming everyone with the algae-bloom of apps, but what is next on the agenda is quartering and bucking everyone every day. But surely that constant, insidious ringing of the Apple cash registers is part of what is driving large segments of the market toward Droid. Some people don't have the resources to pay, no matter how cleverly priced or how automated and silent the transactions become. Apple, in the past, gloried in the fact that their stuff was available only to those that could afford it. But you can have it both ways only if you are the one dictating all the terms.

    RIM has taken on the challenge of competing for customers who want to be able to do everything all the time, even though that kind of surface skimming existence has to burn away eventually. Apple's products are brilliant enough to include bedrock performance capabilities that have been productively used for years now. I don't think a company this smart and driven will ever lose sight of the need for the horsepower and gear-grinding, regardless of how flashy their marketing campaigns get. Because these things are best used as tools, not mere toys. I don't fault RIM for coming at from another direction -- the workhorse that can do fancy tricks when the plow is unhitched. It will take time and capital, but the fundamentals are there. So we see this rush to judgment, as if there's a concerted effort to push RIM over the cliff before they get traction in new markets. Companies fight with each other like this all the time, but its made tougher for RIM because Apple is everyone's darling.
    06-08-11 02:34 AM
  21. Snick Snack's Avatar
    @ mccpher - too true. Beautifully written.

    There are many threads in this forum in one guise or another predicting the downfall of Rim. It gives me an image of vultures sitting on tree branches waiting for road kill.

    Rim needs to put out new phones soon for sure. But what they can and should start doing is integrating their OS systems to provide them with more efficiency of costs and perhaps that is where QNX will come in.

    While we may not see a dramatic upturn of Rim in a year, I think in two years they will be stronger with newer phones and stronger QNX platform.

    Too many people, pundits and media seem to think in the Smart phone arena there can only be two platforms, apple and google but like eveything in life there needs to be variety.
    06-08-11 03:11 AM
  22. pkcable's Avatar
    Hey, long time; no see.

    What we need is a good Hitler video, complaining about RIM. LOL!!!
    I LOVE that video!!!!!
    06-08-11 08:46 AM
  23. jr4941's Avatar
    It's very odd to see people talking about how RIM is becoming stagnant. While maintaining worldwide growth, they are now in the transitional process of re-inventing themselves. They bought QNX, TAT, Gist, the social gaming platform they bought this week. They are obviously starting to steer the boat on a different course. Besides, all you have to do is look at the leaked phones to understand that they have heard our hardware concerns. They have obviously heard our concerns about consumer needs - see the Facebook apps, twitter, starting to evolve BBM.

    When I travel with my BB and my playbook I'm set. Everything I want and need to do is right there.

    Just take a look at threads - users are coming back to bberry or planning to come back when the new bold comes out. Many users I know that left, left because they found the browsing experience awful. What they didn't seem to acknowledge was that they were using a 3yr old phone... so obviously things had improved since then!
    06-08-11 09:01 AM
  24. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    It's very odd to see people talking about how RIM is becoming stagnant. While maintaining worldwide growth, they are now in the transitional process of re-inventing themselves.
    The criticism is because of how stagnant they've been over the last couple years. It's not just about worldwide growth where people can get blackberries for cheap compared to other devices. It's about what have they been doing over the last few years. How much different is BBOS that it was in 2007? Not much. That's why people are saying this. Sure iOS looks the same as 2007 but iOS is leaps and bounds over when it first came out. They continually add features and services while RIM adds minor features every so often. If you think RIM has been moving in the right direction over the past 3-4 years you are in denial just like RIM execs were about the iPhone in 2007. I bet they wish they could have the day back where they underestimated Apple. And let's not forget the other giant....Google.
    06-08-11 09:25 AM
  25. 1812dave's Avatar
    It's very odd to see people talking about how RIM is becoming stagnant. While maintaining worldwide growth, they are now in the transitional process of re-inventing themselves. They bought QNX, TAT, Gist, the social gaming platform they bought this week. They are obviously starting to steer the boat on a different course. Besides, all you have to do is look at the leaked phones to understand that they have heard our hardware concerns. They have obviously heard our concerns about consumer needs - see the Facebook apps, twitter, starting to evolve BBM.

    When I travel with my BB and my playbook I'm set. Everything I want and need to do is right there.

    Just take a look at threads - users are coming back to bberry or planning to come back when the new bold comes out. Many users I know that left, left because they found the browsing experience awful. What they didn't seem to acknowledge was that they were using a 3yr old phone... so obviously things had improved since then!
    I'd consider the bigger picture, rather than mention anecdotal "evidence" of RIM's future success, such as " users are coming back to bberry or planning to come back when the new bold comes out." First of all, that's conjecture, and secondly, if true, it's a drop in the bucket. overall, RIM is failing more by the day. err, correction--RIM is failing more by the HOUR.
    06-08-11 09:51 AM
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