1. Jason Page's Avatar
    I'm an advocate for a vulnerable disabled individual who is currently homeless and awaiting some testing before being placed into an appropriate assisted living.

    And I know there are many individuals in the same shoes.

    It would be wonderful if there was a phone such as the SpareOne GSM emergency phone that worked off a AA battery with a standby of 15 years and about 10 hrs of usage per battery that be updated for modern cell tower networks.

    Are there any 3G / 4G LTE versions of this kind of phone in the market or in the works?

    Battery standby time and usage is essential and regrettably has not been much of the focus in the phone markets, even for emergency use. Perhaps most people have charging conveniences that market-wise is inconsiderate of the need requirements of homeless and folks on survival expeditions that need such a phone as a backup and to stay connected with essential services.

    In addition to the SpareOne GMS feature sets, it could be essential feature to include text codes where texting 777 for example to the phone number would send back a GPS location or link to something like Google Maps, so that finding a lost individual can help with rescues and guidance.
    11-25-18 04:35 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Unfortunately, you’re dealing with two disparate groups. Survivalists and the like would probably opt for satellite phones if really off standard mobile access. Street people, aren’t really any carrier target demographic.

    Government subsidized devices include flip phones as option that operate within current infrastructure as required under government contracts.

    Best suggestion is portable chargers that can be recharged along with phones in public located outlets.
    11-25-18 08:06 PM
  3. Jason Page's Avatar
    The target demographic does not necessarily be exclusive to the one's mentioned, over be overlap to other demographics that would be ideal targets ie the elderly and children. And there are some devices that answer to that calling, however non that emphasize importance to battery life.

    There is another demographic missing; folks involved in non-violent direct action such as ruckus society etc.

    All phones and smart watches these days have non-removable batteries as well. So that causes companies like Seidio and such to refocus their products, that ultimately hurts their main line (once extended batteries.)
    Last edited by Jason Page; 11-25-18 at 10:24 PM. Reason: making a "ruckus" point
    11-25-18 10:23 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The target demographic does not necessarily be exclusive to the one's mentioned, over be overlap to other demographics that would be ideal targets ie the elderly and children. And there are some devices that answer to that calling, however non that emphasize importance to battery life.

    There is another demographic missing; folks involved in non-violent direct action such as ruckus society etc.

    All phones and smart watches these days have non-removable batteries as well. So that causes companies like Seidio and such to refocus their products, that ultimately hurts their main line (once extended batteries.)
    Unfortunately it appears we’re entering an era of standardized almost identical devices that represent commodity market. Not sure how you’re going to get outliers to pay higher prices for specialized hardware... Just look at the PKB space....
    11-25-18 11:52 PM
  5. Jason Page's Avatar
    Leave it to China to someday exploit the 3G/4G tech spec! I hate having to consider a near friendemy. They have so many more offerings in this realm, all stuck in the soon defunct GSM-2G sphere.
    11-26-18 12:14 AM
  6. anon(4297019)'s Avatar
    Leave it to China to someday exploit the 3G/4G tech spec! I hate having to consider a near friendemy. They have so many more offerings in this realm, all stuck in the soon defunct GSM-2G sphere.
    What's your problem with China?
    11-26-18 01:26 AM
  7. Jason Page's Avatar
    With out dragging politics into these forums, the big issue is "black" markets that d infringe on patent rights.
    Last edited by Jason Page; 11-26-18 at 08:21 AM. Reason: patents
    11-26-18 08:19 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Leave it to China to someday exploit the 3G/4G tech spec! I hate having to consider a near friendemy. They have so many more offerings in this realm, all stuck in the soon defunct GSM-2G sphere.
    Unlike CDMA, GSM isn't going anywhere for a while yet.
    Last edited by conite; 11-26-18 at 08:59 AM.
    11-26-18 08:48 AM
  9. Jason Page's Avatar
    Unlike CDMA, GSM isn't going anywhere for a while yet.
    2G is being phased out, only major cities like Chicago still have some pockets. And a lot of the Chinese cool communication gadgets that big corp would never think to produce are stuck in the 2G GSM realm to die.

    I'm just saying it is a matter of time until some China company does some patent theft to make 3G,4G and 5G devices....they have to if they want to keep those cool fringe gadgets going for cheap.
    Last edited by Jason Page; 11-26-18 at 10:15 AM. Reason: spelling
    11-26-18 10:12 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    2G is being phased out, only major cities like Chicago still have some pockets. And a lot of the Chinese cool communication gadgets that big corp would never think to produce are stuck in the 2G GSM realm to die.

    I'm just saying it is a matter of time until some China company does some patent theft to make 3G,4G and 5G devices....they have to if they want to keep those cool fringe gadgets going for cheap.
    I guess I really don't understand what you're talking about. There are a lot of dumb phones out there, that work on whatever technology exists at whatever time.
    11-26-18 10:17 AM
  11. Jason Page's Avatar
    Any examples with affordable Price Points?

    One I still own...waiting to give it to my mom, though difficult to unlock....does allow sideloading at your own risk:
    Sonim XP5

    They are affordable used, however new are very expensive.

    The one that has a 15 year standby on an AA battery is a lot to get inspiration from, and sells for $10 now. Upgrade the networking to 4G etc would increase the price point, however to how much? Could it be done for $100 or less? What does the usual licensing fees for 4G etc look like?
    11-28-18 02:16 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Any examples with affordable Price Points?

    One I still own...waiting to give it to my mom, though difficult to unlock....does allow sideloading at your own risk:
    Sonim XP5

    They are affordable used, however new are very expensive.

    The one that has a 15 year standby on an AA battery is a lot to get inspiration from, and sells for $10 now. Upgrade the networking to 4G etc would increase the price point, however to how much? Could it be done for $100 or less? What does the usual licensing fees for 4G etc look like?
    There’s a reason it’s $10, it’s technically obsolete and therefore limited usability. Everyone’s in this for profits and there’s really none when phones are cheap.
    11-28-18 03:52 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Any examples with affordable Price Points?

    One I still own...waiting to give it to my mom, though difficult to unlock....does allow sideloading at your own risk:
    Sonim XP5

    They are affordable used, however new are very expensive.

    The one that has a 15 year standby on an AA battery is a lot to get inspiration from, and sells for $10 now. Upgrade the networking to 4G etc would increase the price point, however to how much? Could it be done for $100 or less? What does the usual licensing fees for 4G etc look like?

    $70 Canadian.

    https://www.telus.com/en/on/mobility...lcatel-go-flip
    11-28-18 03:59 PM
  14. Jason Page's Avatar
    Nice, I assume Blue-Tooth is BT keyboard capable?

    Have that packaged with a qwerty and we good for most in this niche.

    About $90 in the US, here is some more specs:
    https://us.alcatelmobile.com/alcatel-go-flip/

    Slap a bluetooth keyboard with some duct tape and this device meet my immediate needs, and everything else can be done on a laptop. I use GSM on Qualcomm Gobi2000 on laptop. The convenience however to Facebook messenger for example is non-existent on these devices...KaiOS maybe the answer, which I need to keep in contact with an at risk person is something I need. And since FB disabled their XXMP api over a year ago, sadly can't use Xabber or anything of that sort anymore.
    11-28-18 04:53 PM
  15. Jason Page's Avatar
    There’s a reason it’s $10, it’s technically obsolete and therefore limited usability. Everyone’s in this for profits and there’s really none when phones are cheap.
    The original price point was around $50 for that AA batt device. And that's reasonable. I'm looking to imagine something with a $200 or less price point, which is why I am curious how the licensing of using the 4G technology works, along with the product costs. Looking to CNC a prototype, import some of the parts, have my friend put it all together (hardware) then look for some folks looking to invest their time in the development towards an initial release. After that I'd crowd source an initial run of what ever X number of units, with an altruistic aim, half of the units produced would go to at risk folks, starting with Chicago (I'm already on donation relations with Night Ministries) that need to keep in contact with their essential services while the other half would be sold at some profitable price point, while keeping the altruistic aim in place in some fashion.
    11-28-18 05:03 PM
  16. johnb_xp's Avatar
    All phones, even without a service plan can call 911. So, any old phone is a good emergency phone imo.
    11-28-18 05:18 PM
  17. Jason Page's Avatar
    All phones, even without a service plan can call 911. So, any old phone is a good emergency phone imo.
    True, person I advocate misses appointments or even scheduling them because their phone is always out of battery. Battery being main concern with modern phones. Person also has anxiety issues with calls, so something with a qwerty keyboard would also be essential. Essential services is not exclusive to 911 calls. Outreach services to legal, medical and mental health are essential and folks are at risk in this when they are homeless....not always ample charging available. Something us folks tend to take for granted is rare to sometimes less existent for those folks. A phone that runs off an AA batt or even a 9v batt could sufficiently bridge the needs in this sector. Other folks would like to have something like this in their "Go Bag" in the case of nature disasters or what not. It maybe feature rich enough for other demographics as well.
    11-28-18 05:25 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    While I enjoy playing the devil’s advocate, I’d like to put my usual sarcasm and skepticism aside.

    I support your mission endeavor regarding street people and/or mental health treatment. Unfortunately, your proposed emergency phone would have the unintended consequences of removing vulnerable people from the system instead of keeping them plugged in as your intentions clearly illustrate.

    Personally, I’ve been involved with a family program that attempts to keep families together when they’ve lost their place to live. We have to attend training, helping us to understand how not to disrupt the families socioeconomic dynamics and routines while helping them develop new habits in a new environment that can be sustainable once the families exit the program.

    The current Android/IOS system with inexpensive or even free hardware using Federal Lifeline Assistance program allows every participant to be equally integrated
    within our technological society. For many people, the smartphone is their only computer so it needs to be Android/IOS compatible.

    I applaud your dedication and more importantly your current actions to date. Many people talk but don’t actually walk. Perhaps the best thing, would be to make external power chargers available to as many disadvantaged individuals as possible. Also, how about the hand crank devices or solar chargers? All this would be far more cost effective and usage effective for society’s most at risk of being left behind as technology advances.

    I’m sorry for the long post. Good luck. We return to my regular sarcasm now....
    11-28-18 09:57 PM
  19. Jason Page's Avatar
    Hand crank will work in conjunction for only a low powered phone device for it to be practical.

    I might have to refocus, as the points you have made, that it maybe only important to have some of the most basic functions available while maintaining low data and battery consumption.

    SMS and Talk should be the focus, as it is with the e-ink Phone Light device, only that I should look at less expensive and now maybe tech in public domain such as LCD screens.

    All this talk of data communication features can be looked at more seriously in future releases.

    Also this is still just talk. I've only spoken briefly on some of it with a friend that can get a prototype going and it won't be until I'm back in Chicago that I can look at getting some motion.

    I am fortunate to have all of your responses here for reality checks on what is possible and practical.

    A crank charger is ideal, more so than solar, as it is an unreliable way for any consistent energy input, more of guess work than anything where a single crank always gives out the same output to the device you are charging/powering.

    So CNC a prototype with some kind of an interface, maybe even one that is archaic such as a parallel port, in order to allow community engineer access to create i/o data & power expandibility. For example a crank charger can be applied, so can a solar panel charger, as well as lprint "" > lpt1 (DOS example) to any ANSI based dot matrix printer. I'm just suggesting what I know, talking to an engineering friend gonna set things better for my perspective on this. I like the old open hardware standards and believe bringing that back will open some new doors. And maybe I'm spilling to much info on these forums, and I know some of these ideas gonna want to be hushed a bit until something comes to production.
    11-28-18 11:15 PM
  20. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Crank charging (dynamo) would require 1 amp (1,000 mAh) to charge batteries these days, and that isn't an easy feat. The most common thing to wear out, or shatter, is the plastic gearing. Unless it's actually all comprised of steel or brass (not aluminum, because it thins out with wear and tear), it'll only last three to eight months.

    That is my experience with crank/dynamo radios or flashlights. The gearing wore out long before anything else did, which was a disappointment. It would require steel or brass gearing to last beyond eight months, and support quick charge, so the battery would be recharged sufficiently.

    18650 cells come to mind, or the variety that is 14500, AA-sized li-ion, though the capacity is less than 1000 mAh.

    Typed on my BlackBerry passport, via freedom mobile DC-HSPA+/LTE
    12-05-18 01:08 AM
  21. Sue-zz's Avatar
    There's a handful of 'close but no cigar' handsets in Europe, marketed by Swedish company Doro as 'senior phones.'

    They don't have the battery life of 'survival phones' but they are used by the health-care authorities here for dependent people

    They have 3G, and about three weeks of standby life. The 'senior' features include large text size, a 'signal' LED on the back which flashes with incoming calls or texts, a loud loudspeaker, and hearing aid compatibilty. They also do Email.

    What they also have is an 'assistance' button on the back which, if pushed three times will send a sequence of programmable text messages or call a sequence of numbers, then put the call on hands-free.

    The phones also hook into a remote web app, (Doro Manager) which offers some tracking though there's no GPS in the phone. I haven't used that.

    I use one myself now, as they make great car voice-phones for the dash, where attempting to prod anything smaller while driving ends up with a wreck. There's a star button on the front for the ten most used contacts. Blue-Tooth also.

    They also have good call quality on speaker, though so do many of the current smart-phones.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doro-5516-S...UvbUpU13399008
    Last edited by Sue-zz; 06-03-19 at 07:46 AM.
    06-03-19 07:34 AM

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