[vinnie_dugan]

Why in the world have you still not answered the question about terrorist links?

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[Hrshycro]

Why in the world have you still not answered the question about terrorist links?

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YEAH I KNOW! WTF! lol. Still won't say anything...Only bring up stuff to bash Bush and McCain!

And I'm not interested in your Bush stuff. Everyone makes a few wrong choices, You are NOT PERFECT YOU MAKE BAD CHOICES TOO! We all do!

And what about obama's brother leaving on 12 dollars a year? obama raised 9 million at his last speech, is it to much to drop a 10 dollar bill when obama and his wife went to visit obama's brother last year; And double his monthly income for 10 MONTHS! Or would that be to much CHANGE?

[scottlucky13]

Okay here it goes! I guess you could call me non-educated in how our government runs so maybe some people can help me out.

Number 1:
Does it really matter who are president is? It is my understanding that if the president wants to make a change to something he has to submit a bill/policy..etc. Then that goes up for a vote by congress. So if it does not pass the vote then it gets thrown out.

Number 2:
I don't really follow the campaign trail on TV or locally. But sometimes i do see commercials or what CNN shows. Everything i see is a promise to do this or i support this or he sucks/she sucks, she did this in 2004, he did this in 2005. How many house's do you own? How much money do they have? One candidate making fun of the other one.

Does all that he said she said BS make everybody feel warm and fuzzy on the inside? Is that the deciding factor in who you will vote for? Is the fact that Mcain owns 7 house's going to help the country run better? Is the fact the Obama is a millionaire going to help the country run better? Does it really matter what they did in the past? I understand that they have some experience in working out small issues in there town or state. But the fact of the matter is they have ZERO experience running the entire country.

Number 3:
All the promise's that past presidents made, did they make them?

My thoughts:
I think we need to throw everyone out of the government/congress/whitehouse and start over fresh. I think we need to bring all our troops home and worry about whats going on in our own country and let the people in other countries figure it out for themselves. I think there either needs to be a flat tax rate across the US or find a better way to manage our money. When is the last time anyone has heard anything about our national debt? We keep going in debt more and more everyday.

One thought that i have may seem very unusual and plain crazy. I think there needs to be a limit to what one person can earn in a year. Do all these athletes,CEO's,VP's, and Big corporate executives really need to earn multi-million dollars a year and have multi-million dollar bonuses. How about taking some of that money and trickle it down to the other employees.

That is just some of my thoughts i thought i would share. I have a ton more but didn't think everyone wanted to read a novel I am sure this will stir up the pot enough.

[Hrshycro]

Okay here it goes! I guess you could call me non-educated in how our government runs so maybe some people can help me out.

Number 1:
Does it really matter who are president is? It is my understanding that if the president wants to make a change to something he has to submit a bill/policy..etc. Then that goes up for a vote by congress. So if it does not pass the vote then it gets thrown out.

Number 2:
I don't really follow the campaign trail on TV or locally. But sometimes i do see commercials or what CNN shows. Everything i see is a promise to do this or i support this or he sucks/she sucks, she did this in 2004, he did this in 2005. How many house's do you own? How much money do they have? One candidate making fun of the other one.

Does all that he said she said BS make everybody feel warm and fuzzy on the inside? Is that the deciding factor in who you will vote for? Is the fact that Mcain owns 7 house's going to help the country run better? Is the fact the Obama is a millionaire going to help the country run better? Does it really matter what they did in the past? I understand that they have some experience in working out small issues in there town or state. But the fact of the matter is they have ZERO experience running the entire country.

Number 3:
All the promise's that past presidents made, did they make them?

My thoughts:
I think we need to throw everyone out of the government/congress/whitehouse and start over fresh. I think we need to bring all our troops home and worry about whats going on in our own country and let the people in other countries figure it out for themselves. I think there either needs to be a flat tax rate across the US or find a better way to manage our money. When is the last time anyone has heard anything about our national debt? We keep going in debt more and more everyday.

One thought that i have may seem very unusual and plain crazy. I think there needs to be a limit to what one person can earn in a year. Do all these athletes,CEO's,VP's, and Big corporate executives really need to earn multi-million dollars a year and have multi-million dollar bonuses. How about taking some of that money and trickle it down to the other employees.

That is just some of my thoughts i thought i would share. I have a ton more but didn't think everyone wanted to read a novel I am sure this will stir up the pot enough.

Humm...I do agree with you on most of that, I think if we threw everyone out and started over fresh; that would be great! And I agree on everything after that I think. Now on the 1st part, you are right about how the prez has to make a bill or idea and it has to go threw congress which is run by the liberals at the moment, so if we have obama in all the bills will pass for sure. Other then that, obama is trying to go from 143 days on the floor to the white house, McCain has been threw a lot as a POW and understands more so how this country is doing at the moment.

One thing that I do not agree with you is; we should at least finish the war as fast as we can, then come home. I don't think it was wrong to go after the man/group that caused us the worst day of America, and we should still be after his *** till hes dead. But Iraq was a bad choice to go in there, it wasn't after oil but it was to help the people there, now we are done, hes dead, and things are running better over there. So it's time to clean it up and come home in the next year or 2, at lest for Iraq. Oh and also if obama gets in then we will have no military because where is the funding going to come from for all his "change"? The military, so now the military will have less money to make stuff safer and save more lives, so in the end he will be making more solders be in danger, and lose more lives!


I could go on but that's a rough outline of my thoughts!

[Andy90]

I also agree with some of it. Mainly managing the money we give them better. *Starts to put on flame-retardant gear just in case* Instead of giving us back some of the money we give you (income tax) put it to good use! Invest more in R&D of alternative fuels like solar and wind energy (ethanol is almost out of the picture because of how much corn is needed to make it, especially with what happened to the corn fields earlier this year.
The only disadvantage to "starting fresh" is that you wont have anyone with enough experience to not screw up all the time! That's why they stagger the times that senators and representatives get elected. So you dont end up with a house and senate full of know-nothings. That would not be pretty..... Bush couldn't even do as bad of a job as a bunch of n00bs. (Srry Dems, that's true. The inexperienced ones wouldn't have the first clue how to do anything except make more empty promises.)

[exelant]

exelant, you still have yet to respond to anything in my original post. I can only think that it means you would rather steer around the known ties obama has to terrorist groups. Thats cool, lets just slide that under the rug. As far as smaller government goes, I'm all for it. I dont think at any point anyone in the republican party wanted to do away with the fdic, thats actually a pretty ridiculous statement to make.

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Jeez Vinnie, I've got a real life and stuff going on. I can't live in this forum to answer your questions; gotta work, got horses to feed and exercise, got 20 acres of third cutting alfalfa to get in -- its September you know, and the kids have homework.

As for your questions, I'm not sure if I can take anything you say seriously after your comment about the environment. You didn't respond to any point I made -- and I was just getting warmed up on that subject. I'll admit that I would have an unfair advantage because it's what I do for a living. About smaller government, the point I am making is that at this time, the Republicans have got things so screwed up, we have a lot of work to do to clean up the mess. They constantly talk about free trade, but we have nothing even close to free trade.

Now, on to your more outrageous statements. Obama has NO ties to Hamas or Libya. The only place I could even find a hint of this was on David Duke's website. Considering your past problem with being accused of racism, you might want to distance yourself from this guy. As far as whites being responsible for many problems faced by African Americans in this country, it sounds like an accurate statement to me. Are you saying there is no racism in America. Are you saying Black people have the same employment opportunities as whites? The same pay? The same anything? I'd sure like to see proof of that because there isn't any. Some things are better, but it is still not even close to being equal � and you know it.

As far as FARC, any foreign group can support anyone they want. Communist China, you know, those people who want to destroy capitalism and capitalist countries, they support McCain. So using your logic, McCain's a communist. Try a real argument, please. The accusations you are throwing at Obama are lies; clearly lies that you cannot prove from any reputable site -- not even Fox.

Vinnie, call me out to discuss real issues, not made up stories from the wacky right. Now try to dispute something I've said. By the way, the same wacky right radio hosts often argue for rolling back the New Deal. Look at the economy; we have to create a special fund to prop up banks failing because of their greed writing bad real estate loans. Vinnie, that's socialism. C'mon man, use your brain. You are a working man, how can you support these people who have declared war on you. Figure it out.

[Andy90]

One thing that really irks me: the welfare system. If you are out of work because you have an injury/disability/or other good reason, I have no problems paying to help you, so long as you are willing to help yourself in the first place (i.e. actually having a job before injury/disability or at least trying). I *hate* leeches on the system. The people who are too lazy to work. Same with the Social Security system. I don't mind helping the ones who actually need it. It's the ones who don't need it, but still use it that ticks me off! And if I "stepped on some toes" with that argument, tough. I'm tired of paying part of my taxes so you can sit around doing nothing all day. I work 20-25 hours a week making $6.55 an hour, go to college 15 hours a week (which is 3 hours MORE than the suggested full-time student) and have to be active in 2 clubs/organizations to remain in the Scholars' Program. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford college!

(P.S. This was not intended to make people feel sorry for me or anything like that. So please don't take it that way. I don't need people feeling sorry for me. If I wanted that, I have plenty of people around me to do that.)

[exelant]

I'm sorry for not getting back to your point about Biden earlier, Andy. First, he did not propose putting troops in Georgia. Second, he is wrong to go saber rattling at the Russians. Our forces are spread so thing there is no way to back up any aggression on our part. I know he has backed away from the more inflammatory statements. He is acting the part of a vice presidential nominee. Right or wrong, it's politics American style. Palin has made some pretty "out there" statements as well.

[exelant]

One thing that really irks me: the welfare system. If you are out of work because you have an injury/disability/or other good reason, I have no problems paying to help you, so long as you are willing to help yourself in the first place (i.e. actually having a job before injury/disability or at least trying). I *hate* leeches on the system. The people who are too lazy to work. Same with the Social Security system. I don't mind helping the ones who actually need it. It's the ones who don't need it, but still use it that ticks me off! And if I "stepped on some toes" with that argument, tough. I'm tired of paying part of my taxes so you can sit around doing nothing all day. I work 20-25 hours a week making $6.55 an hour, go to college 15 hours a week (which is 3 hours MORE than the suggested full-time student) and have to be active in 2 clubs/organizations to remain in the Scholars' Program. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford college!

(P.S. This was not intended to make people feel sorry for me or anything like that. So please don't take it that way. I don't need people feeling sorry for me. If I wanted that, I have plenty of people around me to do that.)

Andy, welfare is over, kaput. Bill Clinton and his Republican congress legislated it out of existance. The most one can get after a couple of years is food stamps and housing assistance. It seems as if you're kicking those least able to defend themselves, and I didn't take you for a bully. When you finish your education, you will make many many times more than the poor. Remember that like you, I worked my way through college, and it was the best thing I ever did for myself. It has given me opportunities I would not have had otherwise.

As for Social Security, Andy, this is not welfare. It is something every working man and woman in America has paid for for all of their working lives -- every two weeks, I pay into the system -- along with my own retirement plan. If the government, Repub and Dem, had not looted the fund, workers would have paid in enough to keep it solvent. It is something owed to us that we paid for. The US government has an obligation to meet this debt to its citizens.

[Hrshycro]

One thing that really irks me: the welfare system. If you are out of work because you have an injury/disability/or other good reason, I have no problems paying to help you, so long as you are willing to help yourself in the first place (i.e. actually having a job before injury/disability or at least trying). I *hate* leeches on the system. The people who are too lazy to work. Same with the Social Security system. I don't mind helping the ones who actually need it. It's the ones who don't need it, but still use it that ticks me off! And if I "stepped on some toes" with that argument, tough. I'm tired of paying part of my taxes so you can sit around doing nothing all day. I work 20-25 hours a week making $6.55 an hour, go to college 15 hours a week (which is 3 hours MORE than the suggested full-time student) and have to be active in 2 clubs/organizations to remain in the Scholars' Program. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford college!

(P.S. This was not intended to make people feel sorry for me or anything like that. So please don't take it that way. I don't need people feeling sorry for me. If I wanted that, I have plenty of people around me to do that.)

Yes i completely agree with you on everything you said there. It will pisses me off too! And that is part of the reason we are really really bad off today and the past few days too...Is because no one is responsible for there own damn life and stuff, they want the Gov to pay and help for everything!

[Andy90]

I was not referring to the ones who need food stamps. I'm referring to the ones who can work, but don't. I have seen several like that in the area I live in. I have absolutely no problems with the ones who need food stamps. As a matter of fact, I could probably qualify for them. I just don't want them. I want to leave that service for the people who need it most. I didn't mean to give the impression of a bully. But to me, these things would be like a non-handicapped person parking in the handicapped spot, when there is a person who needs to park there. Working at a retail store, I have seen all kinds of people, including the kind who need help, and the kind who use it but don't need it. I don't know where you live, or what it's like there, but it is pretty much like I have described where I live. Sorry for the impression of being a bully, being constantly picked on throughout junior high and a little when I started high school, that is the last thing I would do.

[exelant]

So you're saying the Government doesn't owe me the $350 a month I pay into Social Security? Or the $150 a month I pay to Medicare? That's a bunch of baloney. That's like me saying I don't want anymore of my tax dollars going to subsidize higher education. Andy, pay the true cost of your education. I would never say that because as a citizen I have a responsibility to society that I am prepared to meet. But Social Security is something owed to me that I paid for.

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[Hi-Definition]

As for your questions, I'm not sure if I can take anything you say seriously after your comment about the environment.

After the environment comment? I was convinced of the scarcity of brain cells even after the DirectTV comment...let alone the cornucopia of other sad commentary he's made in this thread.

As far as FARC, any foreign group can support anyone they want. Communist China, you know, those people who want to destroy capitalism and capitalist countries, they support McCain. So using your logic, McCain's a communist. Try a real argument, please. The accusations you are throwing at Obama are lies; clearly lies that you cannot prove from any reputable site -- not even Fox.

Precisely. Talk about unwelcomed/unrequested endorsements such as from FARC, Hamas, the PLO, Basque separtists and such; it's all moot...when even McCain's trying to distance himself from an American that supports/endorses him; a member of his own Republican party, a "good ol'" boy...his name? George W. Bush.

One thing that really irks me: the welfare system. If you are out of work because you have an injury/disability/or other good reason, I have no problems paying to help you, so long as you are willing to help yourself in the first place (i.e. actually having a job before injury/disability or at least trying). I *hate* leeches on the system. The people who are too lazy to work. Same with the Social Security system. I don't mind helping the ones who actually need it. It's the ones who don't need it, but still use it that ticks me off! And if I "stepped on some toes" with that argument, tough. I'm tired of paying part of my taxes so you can sit around doing nothing all day. I work 20-25 hours a week making $6.55 an hour, go to college 15 hours a week (which is 3 hours MORE than the suggested full-time student) and have to be active in 2 clubs/organizations to remain in the Scholars' Program. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to afford college!

(P.S. This was not intended to make people feel sorry for me or anything like that. So please don't take it that way. I don't need people feeling sorry for me. If I wanted that, I have plenty of people around me to do that.)

Andy, I commend you for not being the "average" college student. You remind me a lot of myself when it came to my situation/work ethic...I took full-course loads ever semester; and practically worked full-time all while doing it. Anyways...what perplexes me is; how can a seemingly smart young man such as yourself not see the obvious BETTER choice though? Also, fine-tune'ing your checklist on the difference and premise behind Welfare and Social Security...won't hurt. I don't say that to sound condescending; but moreso out of sincerity.

I'm sorry for not getting back to your point about Biden earlier, Andy. First, he did not propose putting troops in Georgia. Second, he is wrong to go saber rattling at the Russians. Our forces are spread so thing there is no way to back up any aggression on our part. I know he has backed away from the more inflammatory statements. He is acting the part of a vice presidential nominee. Right or wrong, it's politics American style. Palin has made some pretty "out there" statements as well.

Yeah; Biden has never stated any proposal for sending troops into Georgia. It's been McCain and Palin that have been fervent about sending troops there if need be.

[Andy90]

That's why I didn't mention SS in my last post.

Also (and this is just for the sake of my curiosity) did anyone NOT recieve the stimulus check? I was told that I couldn't claim it for myself because I made less than 3k the previous year and my parents were told that they couldn't claim it for me because I was 17 at the time. As I said, this doesn't matter to me that much, I was just curious if anyone else got told something like that.

[exelant]

OK, maybe a bit strident about Social Security, lol. I'm getting closer to retirement and I am actually looking forward to it -- even if I am able to take a reduced Social Security benefit because I have prepared for it. I do get nervous when I hear those who will be in power in 15 years dissing SS.

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[Andy90]

I checked Medicare's website, I won't be elgible 'til 2055! lol

And for your sake, I hope you don't have any complications with Social Security when you go to get it.

Also, tell me if this makes sense to you, and this is accurate. The roads in my area, mainly the country roads, are constantly used by oil rig truckers and are horrible! Especially if you drive a car.... The county decided to buy a clock to put in front of the courthouse. Guess how much it cost? Not much, only around $48,000... Am I missing something here?

[exelant]

No, you're not missing anything. It is impossible to figure out why local government does anything. Some city councils and county boards have sharp people and some don't. I work at a regional wastewater treatment plant. Our service district is nearly 400000 people, the city I work for is 40000 people. The city's management is small town politics with lots of in-fighting and not much positive happening for the community.

My organization is top to bottom a professional operation. Everyone is persuing higher education and we haven't had a permit violation in decades. I think problems happen when people elect based on party and not person -- at least on a local level. With your county Andy, paved roads cost about a thousand dollars a foot. They probably can't afford the road without a bond, and most bonds need to be approved by voters who often will not approve them. It's a catch 22 -- people don't want to pay taxes. Ahem, cough cough,

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[Hrshycro]

So you're saying the Government doesn't owe me the $350 a month I pay into Social Security? Or the $150 a month I pay to Medicare? That's a bunch of baloney. That's like me saying I don't want anymore of my tax dollars going to subsidize higher education. Andy, pay the true cost of your education. I would never say that because as a citizen I have a responsibility to society that I am prepared to meet. But Social Security is something owed to me that I paid for.

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Ok I understand it from your POV too, as should I as my remaining family and I are on SS every month for survivor benefits, as one of my family members that worked every day, never took a sick day in 33+ years, passed away from cancer almost 6 years ago. And we always paid into the SS, but in the end you will never get all the money you put into the SS back. That's what gets me, is the people that pay into SS never get what they put in, back out. And the people that don't work, and are living on food stamps, don't want to get a damn job and support them selves, and now want health insurance too from the gov, are the people that have never paid a cent to SS and now receive a monthly check.

My Idea of SS would be:
Everyone that works, pays the ss tax, every pay check.
That money from the SS tax goes into a savings account that is set up to earn the avg. interest rate of that year, each yea the gov would take .25% of the earnings.

Down the road when you hit 60, what is in your account will be delt out to you in a system over the next 35-45 years ect...That would be more then enough to live on in the end.

In the end, if you don't work, don't get your *** to a damn job, then you would never pay into SS then you never receive anything in the end. Simple as that.

Dang, I need a blog to start typing all of this stuff I think about into. And as dumb as both of the 2 people running are, (one is much dumber) I think I should be running...But that's not on my goal sheet for life right now.

I ALSO LIKE HOW HI-DEF HAS NOT COME BACK TO ONE OF MY POSTS SINCE HALF WAY DOWN THE LAST PAGE! AVOIDING MUCH???

[Hrshycro]

I checked Medicare's website, I won't be elgible 'til 2055! lol

And for your sake, I hope you don't have any complications with Social Security when you go to get it.

Also, tell me if this makes sense to you, and this is accurate. The roads in my area, mainly the country roads, are constantly used by oil rig truckers and are horrible! Especially if you drive a car.... The county decided to buy a clock to put in front of the courthouse. Guess how much it cost? Not much, only around $48,000... Am I missing something here?

Oh yeah! I should scan the thing I got from my city about redoing a road close to me. The feds gave them 9 mill, they have come up with a plan that lets them redo 1 mile of the 3 mile range. And it is going to take till 2011 to get started! Am I missing something here but I think I could redo 60% of the bad roads here for 9 f'ing mill! WTF is wrong with the gov!?!

[exelant]

Sorry to hear about your loss Hershey, and I know survivor benefits are never enough to replace an actual income. You at least know how the system works. It's a rough world out there if you don't have many resources.

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[Blue_Snowflakes]

Man, I've been gone for a couple weeks tied up in work helping open a bar.. I just read the last 7 pages. Lots of great information and conversation! Very entertaining.

[vinnie_dugan]

There is a new search engine out called google. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but its wonderful. Go there and type hamas, obama and see what is brought up. Anyways, I can see that I am surrounded by "progressive" people, who think the government should be their mother and father. I am in complete disagreement with that. I served in the marines for eight years defending this country, and no matter what anyone says I love this country. I believe that everyone in this country has a chance at success. Any 18 year old male or female can enlist in the military and turn their lives around.

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[Hrshycro]

Sorry to hear about your loss Hershey, and I know survivor benefits are never enough to replace an actual income. You at least know how the system works. It's a rough world out there if you don't have many resources.

Thank you. And Yes it helps a lot but nothing close to what is needed. But it's not stopping me from not making my life as successful as I can make it!

There is a new search engine out called google. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but its wonderful. Go there and type hamas, obama and see what is brought up. Anyways, I can see that I am surrounded by "progressive" people, who think the government should be their mother and father. I am in complete disagreement with that. I served in the marines for eight years defending this country, and no matter what anyone says I love this country. I believe that everyone in this country has a chance at success. Any 18 year old male or female can enlist in the military and turn their lives around.

LOL @ the google part. And that's great that you were in U.S. Military for 8 years! My farther was in the navy over seas for 4 years...along time ago.

[exelant]

You're not the only one who served Vinnie. I was in the Air Force from 1971 to 1974. I spent 4 months in 1971 at a place called Pleiku. In addition, I grew up in the military. You also won't find anyone more patriotic than me. Like I said earlier, you have this preconceived notion about me, but it is wrong.

I also love my country, so when I see it going down the wrong path, I speak out. The right always wants to blame our problems on someone else -- they can never take responsibilty for their own actions.

I hear they're going to take your guns! Well, I've still got my guns. They're a bunch of socialists. What do you call these bailouts? Bush is socializing debt. How many more freedoms are you willing to give up? How about being held in jail without being accused of a crime or given access to the courts? That's next.

My wife works for a defense contractor and spends weeks at a time in Iraq, Afganistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Bosnia. She and I have a pretty good idea of how the war is going. But the bottom line is that I and my family are patriots and we're doing our share. I resent you implying otherwise.

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[Hrshycro]

You're not the only one who served Vinnie. I was in the Air Force from 1971 to 1974. I spent 4 months in 1971 at a place called Pleiku. In addition, I grew up in the military. You also won't find anyone more patriotic than me. Like I said earlier, you have this preconceived notion about me, but it is wrong.

I also love my country, so when I see it going down the wrong path, I speak out. The right always wants to blame our problems on someone else -- they can never take responsibilty for their own actions.

I hear they're going to take your guns! Well, I've still got my guns. They're a bunch of socialists. What do you call these bailouts? Bush is socializing debt. How many more freedoms are you willing to give up? How about being held in jail without being accused of a crime or given access to the courts? That's next.

My wife works for a defense contractor and spends weeks at a time in Iraq, Afganistan, Kuwait, Qatar, Bosnia. She and I have a pretty good idea of how the war is going. But the bottom line is that I and my family are patriots and we're doing our share. I resent you implying otherwise.

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Not to get into your convo, but I do think that what you said about jail and the courts is going to be coming up, and even more scary stuff. And I think it will be happening a lot faster if obama gets in for sure because he doesn't seem to understand much of anything!