[Andy90]

Please do not reduce this thread to hatred, flaming, and name-calling!!! I left my flame-retardant suit at my house.......

[vinnie_dugan]

Well I layed out a logical argument and was called racist, I dont really know how to respond to that.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Hi-Definition]

Hi def, you make me laugh. Do a poll of ten random black people and see why they are voting for obama. I guarantee you they will say change. Then ask them what changes, and they wil l have no idea. It's obvious, just like women are voting for mccain because of palin, a lot of black people are voting for obama simply because he is black. If you think that is a racist statement, then you sir are ********.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Thanks for referring to me as sir; son..I knew you weren't COMPLETELY ignorant. Well obviously one doesn't have to conduct a poll of just 'random' people...irregardless of the color of their skin...to find out why they're voting for who they are.

You can even conduct a poll of people who attest to themselves and others as being 'educated' about the issues/topics/positions/stance...and they still won't know what they're talking about. You, son...are a perfect example of this.

Take care peon; and I hope those biggot-tained hands of yours that will cast the vote for McCain...brings happyness to your maligned soul.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Andy90]

(Donning make-shift flame retardant gear)

[vinnie_dugan]

Keep showing your intelligence, please I truly am enjoying this. My girlfriend is black, I have nothing wrong with black people, but the majority of her friends are voting Obama because he is black. She and they will tell you this. Then again, I'm sure your well educated and versed on these issues. You never even responded to anything in the original post other than race. Obviously its a hot issue for you, so keep melting about it. Whenever your done having a meltdown, address some of the other issues of my first post.

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[exelant]

I go away for a few hours and look what happens. Back to the discussion, lol, Andy, you don't seem to be as conservative as you claim to be. Same sex marriage?! The religious right that has so much power in the Republican party would cast you out, branded as a fair minded person. There's no room in the party of Lincoln for that, ha-ha. I think perhaps your libertarian skirt is showing.

I understand the argument for smaller government, but right now this is the last thing we need. For the first time in a long while, we need a bit of regulation to get things back in balance. This so called free market we've been given has tuned into a nightmare for all of us. We allow free access to our markets but are not allowed the same. China has a huge trade imbalance with us and are allowed to sell countless products to us, many US manufacturers have moved there for cheap labor, but in order to do so they have to sell out our technology to a competitor. and we are not allowed anything close to a free market.

When Jeep wanted to sell cars to the Chinese, they were told they had to build the cars in China! So they built a factory in China to sell them cars. And in the process, they taught the Chinese everything they knew about building cars. Cutting 30 years from Communist China's learning curve. They were forced to sell us out and willingly did so. But what they did is nothing when compared to MicroSoft. Sheesh, Bill Gates probably gave China the tools they will need to distroy us. Think they don't want to? Several years ago a Chinese General asked if Los Angeles was worth Taiwan. No secret what he was talking about.

I'm tired and I need to pick this up tomorrow. But things are not so simple anymore. We can't trust the same people who got us here to get us out. It is just as simple as that.

[tae_254]

Obama because he has a blackberry lol

[Andy90]

Palin has a BlackBerry too. (Actually 2 of them, I believe)

Exelant, that's the thing about our political system: no one has to be only on one side. But things like that make me think, and exercise the most important muscle: my brain.
Tell me though, is that the "wrong way" to view that subject? I would like your opinion/outlook on this, if you don't mind. And I dunno if I could stand being a radical conservative. There are some conservative policies I don't agree with just like there are some liberal policies that I don't agree with. I'm trying to keep an open mind so that I may learn. Closing one's mind does nothing to help the person or humanity in general. It is hard though, when things are so biased in the media now, especially with the election getting closer.

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[the_sandman_454]

One US trade policy I'd like to see implemented would be to make it illegal to trade with nations having a more lax worker safety and environmental policy system than we have. Of course nobody will ever really go for anything like that.

It would be great for US workers since we suddenly become competitive again once safety and environmental problem areas had to spend the same as they do here to clean up their act.

Smaller government is good anytime, especially when it comes to the National government, with as much responsibility as possible falling to the state and local governments. Keeping things local makes it easier to keep pressure on our elected officials to use the tax money in a reasonable manner.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[exelant]

Smaller government is good, but there are things that only government can provide. The true conservatives would like to dump many of the protections put in place after the great depression. Could you imagine the run on banks that would be taking place right now with the current Wall Street mess if we didn't have FDIC insurance?

Smalle businesses are the backbone of job production, but they can't afford many benefits larger organizations can. So many people after spending a lifetime working for thse businesses are counting on Social Security. How bad would it be for them if we let SS die. How many homeless would we have then?

I will drive many crazy with this statement, but unregulated Capitalism is as ugly a system as any without government regulation -- as in the ones that make it tolerable for working folks: unemployment insurance, workplace safety -- OSHA, environmental controls -- Love Canal and the Cayoga(sp?) River on fire. Social security -- the ability to retire after a lifetime of work.

There is so much at stake in this election that isn't being talked about. Sandy has a pretty interesting idea. We could put up another 50 pages about jobs leaving the country, and still not scratch the surface. The main point I'm trying to make to you Andy is to take an honest look at what's going on in America and decide who will do what we need at this point to solve the problems facing us. I'm an independent and I can't see giving the keys to the same team and hoping they'll get it right this time. Especially considering the mess they've gotten us into.

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[Hi-Definition]

Firstly, I apologize to some partakers in this discussion whom shouldn't have to skip past feather-weight posts..in order to read heavyweight ones (i.e. posts with factual substance).

Our gov't has no choice sometimes, but to bail out companies...such as the $85 Billion they put up for AIG. They didn't bail Lehman Bros. out, for the same reasons they didn't bail Enron out a couple of years...the implications of the failings of those companies; wouldn't nearly have the effects as a horrific fall-out of a company such as AIG would have. The underlying backbone of these successive ripple effects is because of the residential housing crisis.

Exelant is right about unregulated capitalism...in theory it sounds magical; in practice it's a scary movie (i.e. such as what's going on NOW). When you let large companies have 100% autonomy; whether conglomerates or not...greed manifests; and risky practices develop..leading for the masses (i.e. average american) to suffer.

The point is that the party which Bush and McCain belong to...have; and are...backers of these unruly corporations. To vote for a candidate that has sided w/ Bush 90% of the time...is illogical to me; I sincerely mean that. And keep in mind that I'm not making a blanket statement about an entire party; I'm making a comment on the representation of that party (Bush and McCain). Until we are given a promising representation of the Republican party...either 4 or 8 years from now..this November's representation/candidate isn't one that should be acted on.

Well I layed out a logical argument and was called racist, I dont really know how to respond to that.

Unless I'm COMPLETELY wrong and my perception of what is logical and what is reality..is jaded..I can't see how you're even passing off what you say as being 'logical'!! If anything, I've been forced to think logically...being trained using the socratical method will do that to someone :-).

The amazing thing about REALITY NOW in America and abroad..is that not only can it be explained quanitatively (i.e. using numbers and figures)...but it can be shown qualitatively in the way the number/figures are directly affecting people's lives!

Is this not true?

Keeping in mind the degree of what you've said in this thread via your personal sentiments/personal observations/personal objectivity..isn't logical. This may be what is deemed logic in the caverns of Vinnie D's mind...but your logic has dire fallacy.

[dnlandes]

Wow MaCain invents the blackberry and you guys can't even vote for him? Haha. I kid I kid. Obama all the way. I want my kids to be taught about condoms in school....stupid Palin.

[wnm]

Wow MaCain invents the blackberry and you guys can't even vote for him? Haha. I kid I kid. Obama all the way. I want my kids to be taught about condoms in school....stupid Palin.

Right on! And, I'll have you know that in recognition of Sen. McCain's achievement, I have changed my Crackberry email signature to thus:

Sent via CrackBerry from T-Mobile courtesy of John McCain.

[Andy90]

About lik Al Gore invented the www and the Internet, huh? (LOL! Srry, just had to throw that one out there for old times sake...)

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[wnm]

But he did!

[Andy90]

I want my kids to be taught about condoms in school....stupid Palin.

I disagree slightly. I do believe kids should be taught about sex. But it should be the parents, not teachers and kids at school. Sadly, I can prove that the opposite happens more often. I learned more from friends than I did from anyone else.

Back to the discussion, lol, Andy, you don't seem to be as conservative as you claim to be. Same sex marriage?! The religious right that has so much power in the Republican party would cast you out, branded as a fair minded person.

I am conservative as I claim. In some areas. If everyone was one side or the other, I don't think we would be able to get anything done. And I think of it this way: I do believe that it is morally wrong, BUT why should I be able to enjoy the freedom of marrying who i want and keep another from doing the same? I, like most people, would be found in the middle instead at either end. Cooperation with others is also a lot easier that way.

And I try to be fair minded. It usually goes well with being open minded. Being closed minded is like trying to run on ice with slick shoes. It gets you nowhere fast.

[Hrshycro]

Okay, let's work this out logically without a lot of emotion.

If you vote for Obama....


You get this.....


But if you vote for McCain....


You get this...



I don't know about you guys, but looking at this in a logical manner, McCain appears to be the better candidate.

Either way both sides are going to be voting for History! A Woman or a Black man.

[Andy90]

One ting I forgot to ask, did you get my point on Biden's foreign policy? Even my college American Federal Government prof. had to kinda do a double-take. What's your opinion on this matter? It seems we would be doing the same thing, war-wise, that we are doing now. Just a different location....

[Hi-Definition]

No photoshop'ing needed to show how 90% conditional loving looks like...

[Hrshycro]

No photoshop'ing needed to show how 90% conditional loving looks like...

And? Your guy thinks we have 60 states, as he has been to 57 so far. He says 58 Connected States, and 2 Other states. That ='s 60!

I'm pretty sure I learned in the 1st grade that America has 50 States and Not 60.

[vinnie_dugan]

exelant, you still have yet to respond to anything in my original post. I can only think that it means you would rather steer around the known ties obama has to terrorist groups. Thats cool, lets just slide that under the rug. As far as smaller government goes, I'm all for it. I dont think at any point anyone in the republican party wanted to do away with the fdic, thats actually a pretty ridiculous statement to make.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Hrshycro]

exelant, you still have yet to respond to anything in my original post. I can only think that it means you would rather steer around the known ties obama has to terrorist groups. Thats cool, lets just slide that under the rug. As far as smaller government goes, I'm all for it. I dont think at any point anyone in the republican party wanted to do away with the fdic, thats actually a pretty ridiculous statement to make.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yeah I know dude they they never comment on that sorta stuff, just come back with info that means nothing to this Country! It really shows how stupid most people are anymore!

[Andy90]

Here's an e-mail i got a while back. I think it's funny no matter where you stand.! (and a little true!)

Why did the chicken cross the road?
>
> BARACK OBAMA:
> The chicken crossed the road because it was time for a CHANGE! The
> chicken wanted CHANGE!
>
> JOHN MC CAIN:
> My friends, that chicken crossed the road because he recognized the need
> to engage in cooperation and dialogue with all the chickens on the other
> side of the road.
>
> HILLARY CLINTON:
> When I was First Lady, I personally helped that little chicken to cross
> the road. This experience makes me uniquely qualified to ensure -- right
> from Day One! -- that every chicken in this country gets the chance it
> deserves to cross the road. But then, this really isn't about me......
>
> DR. PHIL:
> The problem we have here is that this chicken won't realize that he must
> first deal with the problem on 'THIS' side of the road before it goes
> after the problem on the 'OTHER SIDE' of the road. What we need to do is
> help him realize how stupid he's acting by not taking on his 'CURRENT'
> problems before adding 'NEW' problems.
>
> OPRAH:
> Well, I understand that the chicken is having problems, which is why he
> wants to cross this road so bad. So instead of having the chicken learn from his mistakes and take falls, which is a part of life, I'm going to give this chicken a car so that he can just drive across the road and not live his life like the rest of the chickens.

GEORGE W. BUSH:
We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road, or not. The chicken is either against us, or for us. There is no middle ground here.

COLIN POWELL:
Now to the left of the screen, you can clearly see the satellite image
of the chicken crossing the road...

ANDERSON COOPER - CNN:
We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been
allowed to have access to the other side of the road.

JOHN KERRY:
Although I voted to let the chicken cross the road, I am now against it!
It was the wrong road to cross, and I was misled about the chicken's
intentions. I am not for it now, and will remain against it.

NANCY GRACE:
That chicken crossed the road because he's GUILTY! You can see it in his
eyes and the way he walks.

PAT BUCHANAN:
To steal the job of a decent, hardworking American.

MARTHA STEWART:
No one called me to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a
standing order at the Farmer's Market to sell my eggs when the price
dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider
information.

DR SEUSS:
Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the
chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed I've not been told.

ERNEST HEMINGWAY:
To die in the rain. Alone.

GRANDPA:
In my day we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told
us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough.

BARBARA WALTERS:
Isn't that interesting? In a few moments, we will be listening to the
chicken tell, for the first time, the heart warming story of how it
experienced a serious case of molting, and went on to accomplish its
life long dream of crossing the road.

ARISTOTLE:
It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.

JOHN LENNON:
Imagine all the chickens in the world crossing roads together, in peace.

BILL GATES:
I have just released eChicken2007, which will not only cross roads, but
will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your check
book.
Internet Explorer is an integral part of the Chicken. This new platform
is much more stable and will never cra...#@&&^(C% .......... reboot.

ALBERT EINSTEIN:
Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the road move beneath the
chicken?

BILL CLINTON:
I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What is your definition of
chicken?

AL GORE:
I invented the chicken!

COLONEL SANDERS:
Did I miss one?

**** CHENEY:
Where's my gun?

AL SHARPTON:
Why are all there so many white chickens? We need more black
chickens!!!

[wnm]

Pretty much sums up the whole problem with how choose a president.

[Hi-Definition]

Yeah I know dude they they never comment on that sorta stuff, just come back with info that means nothing to this Country! It really shows how stupid most people are anymore!

On the contrary; all this is for the love of our country and the world...it means EVERYTHING to those that have directly/indirectly been affected by the past 8 years. Enough should be enough. Here's some more of the Bush/McCain love I like to call the Colluded Collage...