03-03-15 01:14 PM
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  1. byex's Avatar
    There are 20+ million illegal immigrants in the US, and a sizable portion of them are in California. It's largely they who are sleeping in garages.

    Don't get too bent out of shape until you know the WHOLE story, including the parts that the media doesn't mention because they would make their story less attention-grabbing.

    Apple and Google pump incredible amounts of money back into their communities - their workers are some of the highest-paid workers there are. That doesn't mean that it's Apple or Google's problem to solve the big social problems of the day - that's presumably what we've elected our government for.
    Tell that to Stacy Rich.


    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 05:36 PM
  2. z10Jobe's Avatar
    There are 20+ million illegal immigrants in the US, and a sizable portion of them are in California. It's largely they who are sleeping in garages.

    Don't get too bent out of shape until you know the WHOLE story, including the parts that the media doesn't mention because they would make their story less attention-grabbing.

    Apple and Google pump incredible amounts of money back into their communities - their workers are some of the highest-paid workers there are. That doesn't mean that it's Apple or Google's problem to solve the big social problems of the day - that's presumably what we've elected our government for.
    Actually, you would be wrong. One of my kids works for Apple and basically gets paid minimum wage. I'm sure their people at head office are well compensated, but branch out from there and you get minimum wage and, further out, Foxconn wages. But at least the shareholders are happy.

    Posted via CB10
    thymaster likes this.
    03-02-15 05:44 PM
  3. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    There's a thing called social responsibility. I guess you don't know what that means because you're brainwashed by the greed of capitalism that you can care less about the issue of poverty or homelessness.
    So how much charity BlackBerry give to Society from its peak years from 2004 to 2007? If you are so concerned with social responsibility, go down the street and let 10 homeless people into your home. Feed them, house them and at the same time donate 50% of your salary. Don't preach to me about Social responsibility. Your post is most about jealousy and **** hurt that your precious BB10 phone is not the top phone right now.
    Troy Tiscareno and Cynycl like this.
    03-02-15 05:50 PM
  4. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Not trying to single out Apple or Google directly but here is another example of the negative sides of Capitalism. Before someone comes up with the argument of working hard and reaping the rewards I agree with you, but truthfully it's more than that. We're reaching a breaking point of how wealth is organised and generally accepted. Unfortunately by the time the general population gets together and demands better it will be too late.
    The problem is not so much wealth distribution. Every society has its rich and its poor. The brilliance of American society and capitalism - even when compared to that of Europe - was it's social mobility. It was the idea that a man without a college degree could start out as a delivery driver for Pepsi and end up as CEO. Add to that onerous government regulation an taxation that makes it next to impossible to start a small business that can become the next Apple and a society that is importing unskilled labor hand over fist and legalizing it through amnesty so as to make the lives of the academically less gifted difficult and you have our current situation.

    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno and Cynycl like this.
    03-02-15 05:52 PM
  5. hoonigan99's Avatar
    In the golden age of growth for the US (which is the 50-60s) the high earners were taxed like crazy. But now people believe taxes are evil period which is exactly what rich people want the peasants to believe.

    Posted via CB10
    And this is the belief that many have adopted, because the taxes are skewed to favor the rich. Nobody wants to raise taxes, and now, due to the global economy it can be a detrimental move, because we allow our corporations to create shell companies in more favorable tax regions. We need to change this first, then reign in taxes from these corporations and high paid individuals. Why should Apple be known as an American company, when it routes it's revenue through other places so it can save on taxes, taking away from the American economy. This is true for most major corporations and it needs to be stopped.

    I am not saying the Apple or Google or any other company needs to be building affordable housing or daycare or any of that, they should simply be paying their proper share of taxes so the government can do these things.

    BB for Life
    thymaster likes this.
    03-02-15 05:53 PM
  6. hoonigan99's Avatar
    So how much charity BlackBerry give to Society from its peak years from 2004 to 2007? If you are so concerned with social responsibility, go down the street and let 10 homeless people into your home. Feed them, house them and at the same time donate 50% of your salary. Don't preach to me about Social responsibility. Your post is most about jealousy and **** hurt that your precious BB10 phone is not the top phone right now.
    BlackBerry did exhibit social responsibility in its heyday, and still does some smaller scale sponsorships and donations.

    The argument about social responsibility has not been about BlackBerry, and we are not expressing this anger towards government and big business because we are sad our beloved company is struggling. This argument is about a bigger picture, the fact that runaway successes are cheating the system to save on taxes, which is hurting the local economies that helped build them. Silicon valley has become a city(area) for the rich because of the bloated salaries paid to the people employed there, so much so that the people employed at the coffee shops and grocery stores that these wealthy people rely on, have to struggle to make ends meet, or move so far away from work where it's more affordable that they spend tons of money commuting, and waste hours of their day.

    This is a discussion of the imbalance created by vast wealth being focused on small parts of the population with no regard for the people who do not earn these high salaries, but have to deal with rising cost of living due to other business owners trying to earn more off these wealthy people.

    Don't call people out as jealous fanboys when they are not even discussing what your calling them out for.

    BB for Life
    03-02-15 06:03 PM
  7. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    BlackBerry did exhibit social responsibility in its heyday, and still does some smaller scale sponsorships and donations.

    The argument about social responsibility has not been about BlackBerry, and we are not expressing this anger towards government and big business because we are sad our beloved company is struggling. This argument is about a bigger picture, the fact that runaway successes are cheating the system to save on taxes, which is hurting the local economies that helped build them. Silicon valley has become a city(area) for the rich because of the bloated salaries paid to the people employed there, so much so that the people employed at the coffee shops and grocery stores that these wealthy people rely on, have to struggle to make ends meet, or move so far away from work where it's more affordable that they spend tons of money commuting, and waste hours of their day.

    This is a discussion of the imbalance created by vast wealth being focused on small parts of the population with no regard for the people who do not earn these high salaries, but have to deal with rising cost of living due to other business owners trying to earn more off these wealthy people.

    Don't call people out as jealous fanboys when they are not even discussing what your calling them out for.

    BB for Life
    BS. Other countries that don't have firms such as Google and Apple also have social issues. There are thousands of other firms in the same situation as Google that have tax loopholes. Plug those loopholes and there will be no tax issues. So don't single out these two firms as it's just too convenient.
    03-02-15 06:13 PM
  8. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    If BlackBerry is so concerned with Social issues why did they give Thor a $20 million goodbye present instead of giving most of that money to the poor
    donnation likes this.
    03-02-15 06:24 PM
  9. pttptppt's Avatar
    I wasn't aware BlackBerry was a Non-profit Company
    They haven't quite ever made a profit lol

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 06:32 PM
  10. THBW's Avatar
    There are 20+ million illegal immigrants in the US, and a sizable portion of them are in California. It's largely they who are sleeping in garages.

    Don't get too bent out of shape until you know the WHOLE story, including the parts that the media doesn't mention because they would make their story less attention-grabbing.

    Apple and Google pump incredible amounts of money back into their communities - their workers are some of the highest-paid workers there are. That doesn't mean that it's Apple or Google's problem to solve the big social problems of the day - that's presumably what we've elected our government for.
    Your living in La La, troy. By any economic measure on the face of the planet, things have gotten harder. Mean family income, % labor share, family income vs GDP, real wage index, one would have to be brain dead not to see the trend. Half of all US workers make less annually than the poverty line. And the US has one of the lowest poverty lines in the Western World. Come on dude, wake up.

    Whether this is due to Apple and Google, is a bit simplistic. But the corporate ethos in the US centers on feeding on someone else's carcass. Very different in Canada and the forces that shaped it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 07:02 PM
  11. THBW's Avatar
    Peasants (socialists) don't pay any taxes. They just take, and take, and take. And want more of other people's money.

    Posted via CB10
    You havent looked at any measure of tax burden over the last 20 years. What a bunch of nonsense. Lots of great books on economics ( might I suggest Samuelson) and how tax burden works.

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 07:07 PM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    Some of your guys jealousy over other platform's success has no end or limit.

    And how many people did Blackberry lay off because they mismanaged their entire portfolio for years and yet still had the time to buy a 20 million dollar jet?
    03-02-15 07:12 PM
  13. nuff_said's Avatar
    What systems would you like to use?

    There have been all sorts of social, economic and political systems... which do you think brings about the general good for mankind? Pretty sure the common denominator is always how humans treat one another....
    Yes, majority of systems have been implemented throughout history and none have remained ideal. Why? Because humanity and society change. What system would I choose? My political opinion is not up for discussion on this forum. I'm here to socialise and get into good healthy debates. If your comment above was meant in this manner please forgive my comments here.
    03-02-15 07:12 PM
  14. hoonigan99's Avatar
    BS. Other countries that don't have firms such as Google and Apple also have social issues. There are thousands of other firms in the same situation as Google that have tax loopholes. Plug those loopholes and there will be no tax issues. So don't single out these two firms as it's just too convenient.
    We are not focusing squarely on Apple and Google, it's the trend of big business and their unethical management of money/taxes. Other countries have societal issues either stemming from the same problem (concentration of wealth) or because they do not have enough industry (and therefore $$) to go around, hence the term developing nation.

    BB for Life
    03-02-15 07:20 PM
  15. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Yes, majority of systems have been implemented throughout history and none have remained ideal. Why? Because humanity and society change. What system would I choose? My political opinion is not up for discussion on this forum. I'm here to socialise and get into good healthy debates. If your comment above was meant in this manner please forgive my comments here.
    The best systems are based on real world examples and the majority of the best are Scandinavian countries. But American exceptionalism will have you believe it is the number one country in the world.

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 07:25 PM
  16. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    We are not focusing squarely on Apple and Google, it's the trend of big business and their unethical management of money/taxes. Other countries have societal issues either stemming from the same problem (concentration of wealth) or because they do not have enough industry (and therefore $$) to go around, hence the term developing nation.

    BB for Life
    I guess the point of this Blog is if BlackBerry was the top smartphone maker with $178 billion in cash, the world would be a better place. As for hoarding, BlackBerry has held on to its $3 billion like Scrooge and at the same time laid of more than 4,500 staff. Take risks, spend that money and let it trickle down the economy. Or is that cash set aside for the poor?
    03-02-15 07:26 PM
  17. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    The best systems are based on real world examples and the majority of the best are Scandinavian countries. But American exceptionalism will have you believe it is the number one country in the world.

    Posted via CB10
    And what has Scandinavia invented? America is what it is today, built by entrepreneurs and inventors that has contributed greatly to society. Technology won't be the same today without that drive and spirit. Immigrants - the same people that Troy mentioned - were and still a big part of that drive and success because they're desperate to get out of their situation
    03-02-15 07:29 PM
  18. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    How about starting with Apple $178 billion cash stashed away overseas to avoid getting taxed on the way back home. This is an example of modern day Scourge. That taxed money could have been used to help build schools so your kids could have an education, fund affordable housing to cut down this growing homeless issue and create more jobs so people wouldn't have to beg.
    Which would you rather have? The money Apple already pays out towards schools, grants, charities, etc.. in huge numbers? Or enforce their taxation to provide it? I think you might be a bit surprised if you compare the two options. Apple already willingly pays out more than what their taxes would have provided. The only difference is Apple gets to decide where the money goes, and not let it get depleted through bureaucratic red tape. And up to this point... Apple has been very good at funding schools/education, philanthropic goals, etc.. Politicians are just upset that they don't get to take credit for allocating where the money, products, and volunteered man hours go.

    Google is in the same boat. Last year, Google provided over 100million in grants, 1billion in donated products and development, and 80,000 hours in volunteer charity work for the communities building low cost housing, food donations, missionary work, etc.. Yet nobody in the government can lock down a specific dollar figure to anything beyond the grants, so they use the 100million from grants as the milestone. Which is inherently inaccurate.
    03-02-15 07:29 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Screw the Damn government. They can take anything successful and **** it up. I'm busy raising my kids showing them handouts are bad to accept. Just look how they've ****ed up public schools. Ask yourself, why do many government (school) administrators send their kids to non-public schools? They're still having same bull**** arguments for more cash and raising taxes for what? That's why people like me vote against raising taxes for anything. It never gets where it's supposed with all the government waste.....

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 07:44 PM
  20. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Some of your guys jealousy over other platform's success has no end or limit.

    And how many people did Blackberry lay off because they mismanaged their entire portfolio for years and yet still had the time to buy a 20 million dollar jet?
    Some people's cynicism has no end or limit, deflecting clear social imbalance commentary as jealousy and citing other examples to justify said imbalance.

    Posted via CB10
    byex and thymaster like this.
    03-02-15 07:55 PM
  21. z10Jobe's Avatar
    I guess the point of this Blog is if BlackBerry was the top smartphone maker with $178 billion in cash, the world would be a better place. As for hoarding, BlackBerry has held on to its $3 billion like Scrooge and at the same time laid of more than 4,500 staff. Take risks, spend that money and let it trickle down the economy. Or is that cash set aside for the poor?
    Actually Pearl, BlackBerry is a Canadian corporation that, if profitable, would pay taxes.

    Posted via CB10
    thymaster likes this.
    03-02-15 08:00 PM
  22. z10Jobe's Avatar
    And what has Scandinavia invented? America is what it is today, built by entrepreneurs and inventors that has contributed greatly to society. Technology won't be the same today without that drive and spirit. Immigrants - the same people that Troy mentioned - were and still a big part of that drive and success because they're desperate to get out of their situation
    Dynamite

    Posted via CB10
    03-02-15 08:00 PM
  23. donnation's Avatar
    Some people's cynicism has no end or limit, deflecting clear social imbalance commentary as jealousy and citing other examples to justify said imbalance.

    Posted via CB10
    Lol do you think this thread is anything but cynical towards Apple and Google? Oh right, it isn't cynical if its about Apple and Google, its justified and a commentary on the evils of those two companies. I don't need to justify anything, I'm just pointing out that Blackberry's hands aren't clean when it comes to social responsibility so you can process it as you want but it is a fact. If you're going to throw stones make sure you don't live in a glass house.
    03-02-15 08:05 PM
  24. donnation's Avatar
    Actually Pearl, BlackBerry is a Canadian corporation that, if profitable, would pay taxes.

    Posted via CB10
    And that has to do with what he said exactly? To refresh if Blackberry had $178 billion in cash would the world be a better place? And no one seems to mind it hoarding $3billion in cash while laying off the majority of its workforce. Just wanted to hear your response on that since you seem to be on the side that Blackberry is better for society's ills.
    03-02-15 08:09 PM
  25. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Screw the Damn government. They can take anything successful and **** it up. I'm busy raising my kids showing them handouts are bad to accept. Just look how they've ****ed up public schools. Ask yourself, why do many government (school) administrators send their kids to non-public schools? They're still having same bull**** arguments for more cash and raising taxes for what? That's why people like me vote against raising taxes for anything. It never gets where it's supposed with all the government waste.....

    Posted via CB10
    Taxes need to be raised. But not taxes against the poor and middle class. They already pay their fair share. The rich definitely have not.

    Posted via CB10
    thymaster likes this.
    03-02-15 08:11 PM
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