1. anon(10694483)'s Avatar
    Others will only be able to get the information after being vetted by the White House. That would be like Trudeau getting the numbers first before Health Canada and if he so decided to hide some numbers to improve his standing. I sure as hell appreciate that health agencies should be at arms length from the ruling government.

    Remember when Harper was in power and dismantled a lot of our scientific community here in Canada? He was up to no good
    Yeah but who cares? Others will still be able to present the numbers also will they not? Won't there be many just waiting to pounce on if the data is politicalized?

    Is this about Trump getting copies of the data or about him trying to keep the data to himself or from being made available to others and the public?

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    grover5 likes this.
    07-15-20 08:39 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Others will only be able to get the information after being vetted by the White House. That would be like Trudeau getting the numbers first before Health Canada and if he so decided to hide some numbers to improve his standing. I sure as hell appreciate that health agencies should be at arms length from the ruling government.

    Remember when Harper was in power and dismantled a lot of our scientific community here in Canada? He was up to no good
    Either that’s been going on for the last 20-30 years already or it’s not. The point is I don’t and won’t trust most of the data since we don’t know collection and/or testing accuracy.

    We know people are dying like a flu pandemic in the past. The best data source would be from the origination point, China, and surely that’s corrupted exponentially compared to here.

    Seriously, how many people die every year from the flu on average? How many die in a bad year? Traffic accidents, cancer? Where I live with the population concentration, it’s just everyday life. Especially with old people, who insist on driving until it kills them or someone else.....

    Florida’s all fun and games until it’s not but we are free to stay or leave
    07-15-20 09:19 PM
  3. grover5's Avatar
    Either that’s been going on for the last 20-30 years already or it’s not. The point is I don’t and won’t trust most of the data since we don’t know collection and/or testing accuracy.

    We know people are dying like a flu pandemic in the past. The best data source would be from the origination point, China, and surely that’s corrupted exponentially compared to here.

    Seriously, how many people die every year from the flu on average? How many die in a bad year? Traffic accidents, cancer? Where I live with the population concentration, it’s just everyday life. Especially with old people, who insist on driving until it kills them or someone else.....

    Florida’s all fun and games until it’s not but we are free to stay or leave
    This is just a horrible misdirection post. I had no idea this was who you are. I’m done with you. Don’t address me again.
    anon(10694483) likes this.
    07-15-20 09:33 PM
  4. grover5's Avatar
    Off to binge more netflix in quarantine with Heidi. The tacos were great. So is the champagne.
    07-15-20 09:34 PM
  5. anon(10694483)'s Avatar
    Deflect. If you want data go to the John Hopkins Covfefe-19 page, it will break everything down for you. Oops won't be able to trust that now because the numbers have to go through Trump first now.

    Florida is in horrendous shape with regards the Covfefe-19 virus. I hope you don't get it, but when you do I hope you will survive to give us a full report. The other day you ridiculed my Covid-19 numbers in Manitoba. Now let's look at Ontario. 15 million people (vs 20 million in Florida) and there are currently less than 1500 active cases. Florida on the other hand is adding 15,000 new cases everyday.

    Your comments about whether people die from the Covfefe-19 virus as compared to all other deaths is totally insensitive. Let's stop giving flu shots, let's remove speed limits then.

    Vile.
    Either that’s been going on for the last 20-30 years already or it’s not. The point is I don’t and won’t trust most of the data since we don’t know collection and/or testing accuracy.

    We know people are dying like a flu pandemic in the past. The best data source would be from the origination point, China, and surely that’s corrupted exponentially compared to here.

    Seriously, how many people die every year from the flu on average? How many die in a bad year? Traffic accidents, cancer? Where I live with the population concentration, it’s just everyday life. Especially with old people, who insist on driving until it kills them or someone else.....

    Florida’s all fun and games until it’s not but we are free to stay or leave
    grover5 likes this.
    07-15-20 09:41 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This is just a horrible misdirection post. I had no idea this was who you are. I’m done with you. Don’t address me again.
    What’s the misdirection? I’m living in almost ground zero of the pandemic in western civilization. I’m here with it daily, this isn’t some hypothetical.

    Because of the original shutdown, we’re facing a supposed doubling of deaths from opioids. Is that statistic proven? Due to addiction, some medical professionals feel that number would be the same either way. Others, are blaming COVID-19 but either way opioid deaths are deaths. Should we count them as COVID-19 or not? I don’t know.

    Think of this way though, you don’t live here, so why do you care about it? Both sides are politicizing it. However, it’s laughable when you think how Trump is worse than others. Politicians are the worst especially when that’s all they’ve done.
    07-15-20 10:02 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Deflect. If you want data go to the John Hopkins Covfefe-19 page, it will break everything down for you. Oops won't be able to trust that now because the numbers have to go through Trump first now.

    Florida is in horrendous shape with regards the Covfefe-19 virus. I hope you don't get it, but when you do I hope you will survive to give us a full report. The other day you ridiculed my Covid-19 numbers in Manitoba. Now let's look at Ontario. 15 million people (vs 20 million in Florida) and there are currently less than 1500 active cases. Florida on the other hand is adding 15,000 new cases everyday.

    Your comments about whether people die from the Covfefe-19 virus as compared to all other deaths is totally insensitive. Let's stop giving flu shots, let's remove speed limits then.

    Vile.
    I’m ok with that. I don’t actually do flu shots or speed limits, but then again, that’s another thing Florida’s known for.

    Again, we’re not Canada and never can or will be. That’s like comparing a moose to alligator. Both have four legs and not really much else in common
    07-15-20 10:06 PM
  8. anon(10694483)'s Avatar
    Deflect again. Face it Chuck, Trump is laughable. But not as much as his supporters.
    What’s the misdirection? I’m living in almost ground zero of the pandemic in western civilization. I’m here with it daily, this isn’t some hypothetical.

    Because of the original shutdown, we’re facing a supposed doubling of deaths from opioids. Is that statistic proven? Due to addiction, some medical professionals feel that number would be the same either way. Others, are blaming COVID-19 but either way opioid deaths are deaths. Should we count them as COVID-19 or not? I don’t know.

    Think of this way though, you don’t live here, so why do you care about it? Both sides are politicizing it. However, it’s laughable when you think how Trump is worse than others. Politicians are the worst especially when that’s all they’ve done.
    07-15-20 10:07 PM
  9. anon(10694483)'s Avatar
    Ok thanks. Ciao.
    I’m ok with that. I don’t actually do flu shots or speed limits, but then again, that’s another thing Florida’s known for.

    Again, we’re not Canada and never can or will be. That’s like comparing a moose to alligator. Both have four legs and not really much else in common
    07-15-20 10:09 PM
  10. kbz1960's Avatar
    Tacos tonight. Heidi requested chipotle.
    Good choice
    07-15-20 10:34 PM
  11. kbz1960's Avatar
    A couple meetings tomorrow. Nothing to crazy.
    Zoom
    07-15-20 10:34 PM
  12. anon(10694483)'s Avatar
    Filmed in Zoomacolour
    Zoom
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-15-20 10:43 PM
  13. spARTacus's Avatar
    Nor did I, I posted an important message about the state of democracy and that everyone should stay vigilant. No one knows for sure how far fat orange will go....
    Lets be honest yama. You were stiring the pot again.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-16-20 04:38 AM
  14. spARTacus's Avatar
    Others will only be able to get the information after being vetted by the White House. That would be like Trudeau getting the numbers first before Health Canada and if he so decided to hide some numbers to improve his standing. I sure as hell appreciate that health agencies should be at arms length from the ruling government.

    Remember when Harper was in power and dismantled a lot of our scientific community here in Canada? He was up to no good
    Do we really think that is what will happen? I haven't been following things closely, but what is the source of all of this? Was there a new executive order, or maybe reports speculating about something in the media?

    In Canada health matters are largely a provincial affair. There is federal oversight at some levels and for national coordination and such, but the data being sent to health Canada does not prevent the provincial data from being separately published and available. In fact, I think that most of the websites that report on Canada's COVID data get their provincial numbers from provincial sources, not from federal sources. I (perhaps naively) assume it is not significantly different in the US. With all the criticism of Trump going on, I am sure that there will be many just waiting to show proof of if / when he manipulates the data.
    07-16-20 04:45 AM
  15. spARTacus's Avatar
    This is just a horrible misdirection post....
    Some of it I think is. Some of it I think is fine.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-16-20 04:47 AM
  16. spARTacus's Avatar
    Deflect. If you want data go to the John Hopkins Covfefe-19 page, it will break everything down for you. Oops won't be able to trust that now because the numbers have to go through Trump first....
    I think the JH site actually sucks. Not sure what they use for object rendering preparation, but it seems to me it is sites like that that force the unnecessary continued push to have to replace ones devices every couple of years..


    Will the sources that JH use actually be shut off and will JH actually have to instead get its data from Trump? I don't know that answer, haven't been following the issue close enough.
    07-16-20 04:53 AM
  17. spARTacus's Avatar
    Deflect again. Face it Chuck, Trump is laughable. But not as much as his supporters.
    Trump is indeed laughable, but part of that seems to because he is too open and wants to keep insisting on trying to do it all and say it all only himself. If he'd just stay in the background a bit more and let his people do their jobs then he'd be able to keep himself out of a lot of trouble. He also needs better capable people, but that is his fault. He has dismissed too many of the capable ones. It almost seems to me like he hasn't yet figured out that he is not the key to saving himself (not sure that is actually what he is interested in), but others are the key. He could have settled down in the background a bit more after he won the election (I think for a bit it almost seemed like his administration was trying to move to that), and if he had then in my opinion he'd probably have way better chances of getting re-elected right now. This has all been one big laughable extension of his earlier reality shows, and him and his administration seem equally incapable as most of those fake project managers and fake taskings on that show. I feel like after it is over Trump will have the last laugh "...look how bad our system is. It elected me in and allowed me to run a reality show for years and allowed me to convince people to ignore unimaginable incompetence and run the government with people that have no experience. It even allowed me and my team to break the law and convince the public that it was OK. How is it possible that our system should allow for that? What is wrong with our system..."

    Some of his supporters are indeed also laughable in my opinion, even more naive then Trump himself. Some of his supporters are really smart however, which to me is really scary because that makes me believe there is something else going on, something almost sinister in terms of why they would want this kind of figure-head. I think it has something to do with a desire to completely turn the system upside down (ie: they don't care about Trump and are even willing to risk him and his craziness pushing the button on the missiles because they are trying to turn the tide of something else and if the world goes to sh*t in the process and many die well that doesn't matter because such a course will get things there also.

    Some of the anti-Trump folks are equally laughable in my opinion.
    Last edited by spARTacus; 07-16-20 at 06:36 AM.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-16-20 05:20 AM
  18. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...Because of the original shutdown, we’re facing a supposed doubling of deaths from opioids. Is that statistic proven? Due to addiction, some medical professionals feel that number would be the same either way. Others, are blaming COVID-19 but either way opioid deaths are deaths. Should we count them as COVID-19 or not? I don’t know....
    No. Increased death rates and numbers for other reasons that are secondary to COVID should not be included in COVID numbers. However, if people want to start discussing the impact that COVID poor planning has had (in terms of secondary death rates / numbers also), then that is a valid discussion. However, people just need to be cautious that there might be a lot of speculation involved when those discussions happen.
    07-16-20 05:31 AM
  19. spARTacus's Avatar
    As it’s not already being manipulated?!? I believe that metadata falls under some kind of freedom of information passed from and between state agencies.
    For most of the "messages" out there, one needs to assume there is at least some sort of political motivation or bias in the background. I am sure that some of the "raw data" sites could have some form of manipulation incorporated. However, I think that for the most part, most of the "raw data" sites out there reportimg COVID numbers are trying to simply present the numbers, no goal of manipulation at all.

    Now, the viewers of the data still need to know what they are looking at. For example, it is useless to look at the daily rates for the US and to try to compare them to the daily rates of Canada. That would probably involve a bunch of fake news to try to make arguments from some of those types of graphs, if one does not also factor in things like time, circumstances, per capita and testing rates. However, to think that the graphs themselves are fake news and can't be trusted would and of itself be believing fake news. The graphs are just numbers.
    Last edited by spARTacus; 07-16-20 at 06:41 AM.
    07-16-20 05:50 AM
  20. spARTacus's Avatar
    All that money being wasted as Trump makes enemies of allies and sides with the enemy!
    What money being wasted in this case related to those US military commands headquartered in Florida (I think that was the example Chuck was refering to and then you replied to)? Trump is indeed causing the citizens of allied and enemy countries to think differently about the US. However, in the background I don't think the Canadians and US military allied partnership for example has changed much or weakened at all. I admit that there are probably a few more challenges being faced, but I think the military folks on both sides are just rolling with it, knowing that in the longer term those challenges will eventually go away. The challenges between the Canadian and US militariies nowadays due to Trump are probably a lot less than the challenges faced earlier when Canada didn't agree to join the campaign against the weapons of mass destruction against Iraq.
    07-16-20 06:01 AM
  21. spARTacus's Avatar
    Ok. I’m out. I did not intend for this to flair up again...
    I don't think you should be out and I think you should stay in. Keeping the discussions reasonable and civilized is important, and knowing when to turn them down and slightly divert them is also important. I don't think anyone wants this thread to turn into a political debate thread for the next several months, but for the sake of the future of the unity of the US and the impact that could also have on the rest of the world, I think we all need to entertain and facilitate more discussion, and with guys like Chuck and yourselves.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    07-16-20 06:22 AM
  22. kbz1960's Avatar
    Thursday
    07-16-20 11:07 AM
  23. spARTacus's Avatar
    Thursday
    Thank goodness.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-16-20 11:23 AM
  24. grover5's Avatar
    Trump is indeed laughable, but part of that seems to because he is too open and wants to keep insisting on trying to do it all and say it all only himself. If he'd just stay in the background a bit more and let his people do their jobs then he'd be able to keep himself out of a lot of trouble. He also needs better capable people, but that is his fault. He has dismissed too many of the capable ones. It almost seems to me like he hasn't yet figured out that he is not the key to saving himself (not sure that is actually what he is interested in), but others are the key. He could have settled down in the background a bit more after he won the election (I think for a bit it almost seemed like his administration was trying to move to that), and if he had then in my opinion he'd probably have way better chances of getting re-elected right now. This has all been one big laughable extension of his earlier reality shows, and him and his administration seem equally incapable as most of those fake project managers and fake taskings on that show. I feel like after it is over Trump will have the last laugh "...look how bad our system is. It elected me in and allowed me to run a reality show for years and allowed me to convince people to ignore unimaginable incompetence and run the government with people that have no experience. It even allowed me and my team to break the law and convince the public that it was OK. How is it possible that our system should allow for that? What is wrong with our system..."

    Some of his supporters are indeed also laughable in my opinion, even more naive then Trump himself. Some of his supporters are really smart however, which to me is really scary because that makes me believe there is something else going on, something almost sinister in terms of why they would want this kind of figure-head. I think it has something to do with a desire to completely turn the system upside down (ie: they don't care about Trump and are even willing to risk him and his craziness pushing the button on the missiles because they are trying to turn the tide of something else and if the world goes to sh*t in the process and many die well that doesn't matter because such a course will get things there also.

    Some of the anti-Trump folks are equally laughable in my opinion.
    You have completely misread fat don and the trouble this country is in. That’s too bad.
    anon(10694483) likes this.
    07-16-20 12:19 PM
  25. grover5's Avatar
    Thursday
    That is a fact.
    07-16-20 12:21 PM
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