03-26-12 02:47 PM
49 12
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  1. 13echo4's Avatar
    Me myself i hope not, but i do get tired of all those android fanboys out there that say blackberry wont be around by the end of 2012. I want blackberry to prove them wrong, make a comeback, and shut there mouth for them.

    Ya i use a android phone but im a blackberry fan at heart. And im also on blackberrys side.

    Anybody have an input on this.
    I don't question your intentions, but I do have some questions though.
    Why don't you use a bb? Have you ever owned one? If so what lead to your swapoimg out? What direction would you like to see Rim go in? Why do you care?
    03-22-12 08:37 PM
  2. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    They aren't closing down. In fact, they are purchasing companies. Their profits seem to be trending down for the last two quarters, so if that is 'going under', then they are.
    Lower profit margin is what worries me the most. Doesn't matter if you sell more units and broaden your customer base, if you can't get a high price for those units you have to operate as a commodity and focus on low price and high volumes. A few years ago RIM was operating at about 20% profit margin and now they are at about 5%, so they are at a crucial point of being seen as a commodity, and that hurts the brand.

    What also worries me is that RIM did indeed throw a wad of cash to increase research spending in developing their latest batch of phones, but it appears they spent all their efforts on selling the cheaper Curve, which tends to have similar features as the more profitable Bolds, but carry much less profit. Sure, sales and customer base goes up, but now you're not making good money.

    I've worked in commodity businesses where they gave a shot at one last bout of innovation, hiring marketing and research, throwing money at development, but after a couple of years the marketing folks were laid off, followed by half the research group, followed by plant closures, followed by bankruptcy. It was simply too late, and not enough time to turn things around.

    I hope RIM focuses on the right development, they're not going to turn around the business by selling Curves cheaply.
    03-22-12 09:04 PM
  3. morganplus8's Avatar
    Oh boy, let's see, Jefferies hates RIM just as much as National Bank, Jeffries dropped their forward earnings down to something like $ 2.90/shr and that equates to $ 1.5 billion dollars. Add that to the $ 1.5 billion they already have and you have to throw one huge party to blow that much money by the end of 2012. Now, plenty of serious money has stepped into RIM stock at higher levels, don't you think they have a bit more inside information then SeekingAlpha, Fool, CNBC and a few of those media sources?

    I don't think it is a stretch to think that RIM knows what hardware needs to go into their next phone, the "Blade" is yet another example of what they were thinking about many months ago. They will remain debt free for the next year, have a ton of cash, probably attract more interest in their stock and launch many new products. The BB 9900 is a great phone that no one knows about.
    03-22-12 09:16 PM
  4. bbmme's Avatar
    Too keep it simple, f*ck no!! Nor will they get bought out!!!! Well I hope not eh hehe
    03-22-12 09:24 PM
  5. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Oh boy, let's see, Jefferies hates RIM just as much as National Bank, Jeffries dropped their forward earnings down to something like $ 2.90/shr and that equates to $ 1.5 billion dollars. Add that to the $ 1.5 billion they already have and you have to throw one huge party to blow that much money by the end of 2012. Now, plenty of serious money has stepped into RIM stock at higher levels, don't you think they have a bit more inside information then SeekingAlpha, Fool, CNBC and a few of those media sources?

    I don't think it is a stretch to think that RIM knows what hardware needs to go into their next phone, the "Blade" is yet another example of what they were thinking about many months ago. They will remain debt free for the next year, have a ton of cash, probably attract more interest in their stock and launch many new products. The BB 9900 is a great phone that no one knows about.
    People are aware of blackberry devices. They are also aware of the limitations when it comes to certain functions. 5 years ago bb were the most popular phones in the world; however now they are considered pagers in the consumer market. The devices sell poorly due to the functions it can't perform, plain and simple. I wish everyone would stop blaming it on marketing, consumer awareness, etc etc etc.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    03-22-12 11:02 PM
  6. hurds's Avatar
    People are aware of blackberry devices. They are also aware of the limitations when it comes to certain functions. 5 years ago bb were the most popular phones in the world; however now they are considered pagers in the consumer market. The devices sell poorly due to the functions it can't perform, plain and simple. I wish everyone would stop blaming it on marketing, consumer awareness, etc etc etc.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    You think people buy things based purely on the way they perform?If only it were that simple. Anyways, as far as performace goes I've had the iPhone 3Gs and now iPhone 4 and my bb7 device can do anything the iPhone can do, minus games, but I have a playbook for that.
    03-22-12 11:08 PM
  7. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    You think people buy things based purely on the way they perform?If only it were that simple. Anyways, as far as performace goes I've had the iPhone 3Gs and now iPhone 4 and my bb7 device can do anything the iPhone can do, minus games, but I have a playbook for that.
    Yes, I would say a majority of consumers in NA purchase smartphones based on what they can do. I have a bold and a torch(9810). I like the bold a lot; however I find myself using my iPhone more due to the tools (apps) that are available.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    03-22-12 11:27 PM
  8. morganplus8's Avatar
    People are aware of blackberry devices. They are also aware of the limitations when it comes to certain functions. 5 years ago bb were the most popular phones in the world; however now they are considered pagers in the consumer market. The devices sell poorly due to the functions it can't perform, plain and simple. I wish everyone would stop blaming it on marketing, consumer awareness, etc etc etc.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    Well you aren't alone, millions of iPhones have been sold across North America, I might disagree with your claim that its because that phone is any better than BBs. I recently sold my iPhone 4 and switched back to the BB 9900 and it is so much better in every way for me. I couldn't stand the screen on that iPhone, I need the keys to type fast and I can operate the BB with one hand all day.

    Funny thing I noticed was that despite the great camera, noone used it! Every single picture I recieve from my legions of iPhone lovers is at the absolute lowest resolution you can set it on! To make matters worse, well over half of the pics and videos are 90 degrees off, these people should get an app that tells them what position to hold the phone in to take pictures, damn it.

    I now have the PB too and love it, easily worth $ 240.00 for that thing. Where do I begin, an HDMI cord and my BB 9900 and I control every big screen at every hotel we stay in. I bring movies, surf the net, and type emails off the big screen while lying back on the bed. As for my comment about noone knowing about the 9900/9930 its true, try to find one in America! They don't exist in all the big box stores no matter where you go, I end up showing them mine.
    03-22-12 11:28 PM
  9. hurds's Avatar
    Its funny when I'll take a look at some of my friends iPhones and I'll try to swipe through all the apps and I'll make it all the way through with one swipe. When I had my first iPhone it took me probably 6 swipes and now on my new one I'm down to 4 and realistically I could reduce it to 1 or 2.
    03-22-12 11:57 PM
  10. dbmalloy's Avatar
    Blackberry going under... Hmmmmm....

    Company has no debt to speak of....
    Has a constant revenue stream for their network
    Still turns a profit in the last number of quarters
    75 million users and growing....

    Sure sounds like a company that will not make it till the end of the year to me....
    slashd0t likes this.
    03-23-12 12:13 AM
  11. gritzo's Avatar
    Yes, I would say a majority of consumers in NA purchase smartphones based on what they can do. I have a bold and a torch(9810). I like the bold a lot; however I find myself using my iPhone more due to the tools (apps) that are available.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    i would probably agree with you on that point ...problem is, i would bet a good portion of the iphone users(millions) bought purely on what they "HEARD" it can do and dont even know how to use the phone functions properly..For the cellphone market ,like it or not, has become a HUGE fashion statement.

    To say that a blackberry is like a "pager" in the cellphone world today is a little ridiculous.
    03-23-12 05:32 AM
  12. addicted44's Avatar
    i would probably agree with you on that point ...problem is, i would bet a good portion of the iphone users(millions) bought purely on what they "HEARD" it can do and dont even know how to use the phone functions properly..For the cellphone market ,like it or not, has become a HUGE fashion statement.
    I agree with you, except for the fact that the Cellphone market was ALWAYS a huge fashion statement. This is right from the time when Nokia started producing the first internal antenna phones. Then you had the Moto Razr, which was a pathetic phone but was popular solely for its looks. Finally, the Blackberry Bold and Pearl were THE phones to own to make a statement until the iPhone arrived in 2007.
    03-23-12 05:47 AM
  13. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    i would probably agree with you on that point ...problem is, i would bet a good portion of the iphone users(millions) bought purely on what they "HEARD" it can do and dont even know how to use the phone functions properly..For the cellphone market ,like it or not, has become a HUGE fashion statement.

    To say that a blackberry is like a "pager" in the cellphone world today is a little ridiculous.
    Hey, I like blackberry devices. I'm just saying from a consumer standpoint.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    03-23-12 06:00 AM
  14. 13echo4's Avatar
    People are aware of blackberry devices. They are also aware of the limitations when it comes to certain functions. 5 years ago bb were the most popular phones in the world; however now they are considered pagers in the consumer market. The devices sell poorly due to the functions it can't perform, plain and simple. I wish everyone would stop blaming it on marketing, consumer awareness, etc etc etc.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    Dude your just to far away from the mark. Blackberrys function very well. They do what they where intended to do better than anybody. Ive never heard of a blackberry thought of as a pager. Matter of fact MOST people dont even know blackberrys started out as pagers. You can find an app for just about any of the ios or android apps. You just dont how 10k versions.
    No body knows about blackberrys because Rim doesnt market them. They never had to. They where busness phones. Companies knew about them and bought em in bulk. Motorola started markering its phones i want to say with the razor but it was just all about dimensions if I remember right.
    Apple truely rewrote the book on marketing phones. Rim hasnt came anywhere close. I wish I had nickle for everytime somebody told me they didnt know a blackberry could do something that i showed them.
    Just for example Ive seen a commerical marketing siri. Never have I seen a blackberry commerical even mentioning vlingo.
    Everything that a blackberry can do I.E. Remote control another device, connect to wifi, scan, fax, send all kinds of data, mp3 player, video player, video recorder, camera, edit pictures, gps, play games and make calls. What functions does a blackberry not have?
    03-23-12 07:00 AM
  15. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    Dude your just to far away from the mark. Blackberrys function very well. They do what they where intended to do better than anybody. Ive never heard of a blackberry thought of as a pager. Matter of fact MOST people dont even know blackberrys started out as pagers. You can find an app for just about any of the ios or android apps. You just dont how 10k versions.
    No body knows about blackberrys because Rim doesnt market them. They never had to. They where busness phones. Companies knew about them and bought em in bulk. Motorola started markering its phones i want to say with the razor but it was just all about dimensions if I remember right.
    Apple truely rewrote the book on marketing phones. Rim hasnt came anywhere close. I wish I had nickle for everytime somebody told me they didnt know a blackberry could do something that i showed them.
    Just for example Ive seen a commerical marketing siri. Never have I seen a blackberry commerical even mentioning vlingo.
    Everything that a blackberry can do I.E. Remote control another device, connect to wifi, scan, fax, send all kinds of data, mp3 player, video player, video recorder, camera, edit pictures, gps, play games and make calls. What functions does a blackberry not have?
    Let me get this straight, RIMM managed to sell millions of devices without marketing or people knowing about them? I'm aware that blackberry has apps; I'm also aware that they are not as good/sleek when compared to its iOS/android counterparts. There's a reason why millions are choosing other platforms over RIMM products and it's not due to RIMM's lack of marketing. I said it before I like blackberry products: The problem is that a lot of you guys are thinking with an over developed emotion along with under developed reasoning. If everything was all good over at RIMM; They wouldn't be playing catch up at this point.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    GingerSnapsBack likes this.
    03-23-12 07:34 AM
  16. addicted44's Avatar
    Apple truely rewrote the book on marketing phones. Rim hasnt came anywhere close.
    If Apple's success, and consequently RIM's declining success is solely due to marketing, then how do you explain Android's skyrocketing success?

    Everything that a blackberry can do I.E. Remote control another device, connect to wifi, scan, fax, send all kinds of data, mp3 player, video player, video recorder, camera, edit pictures, gps, play games and make calls. What functions does a blackberry not have?
    It is not just availability of features. Ease of discoverability, and ease of use also matter greatly. Otherwise BB had no right to become as popular as it did, since Nokia, Samsung, HTC, Motorola phones had all the features that BBs originally had. It was just that Blackberry did it better which made it successful.
    03-23-12 07:54 AM
  17. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    If Apple's success, and consequently RIM's declining success is solely due to marketing, then how do you explain Android's skyrocketing success?
    Verizon marketed Android heavily. Probably the only reason Motorola had its resurgence with the Droid.

    As well, the media did a good job with bringing visibility to Android by writing article after article proclaiming it the "Anti-Apple". That and the discussion forums full of Apple-haters really got the OS on the map.
    03-23-12 09:50 AM
  18. 13echo4's Avatar
    Let me get this straight, RIMM managed to sell millions of devices without marketing or people knowing about them? I'm aware that blackberry has apps; I'm also aware that they are not as good/sleek when compared to its iOS/android counterparts. There's a reason why millions are choosing other platforms over RIMM products and it's not due to RIMM's lack of marketing. I said it before I like blackberry products: The problem is that a lot of you guys are thinking with an over developed emotion along with under developed reasoning. If everything was all good over at RIMM; They wouldn't be playing catch up at this point.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    Seriously? Everybody thinks BBs are good looking phones. You don't see commercials for office partitions or desk but millions are sold. As far as cosmetics and features go all the iphone had until recently was a touch screen ui and a bigger screen.
    What's going on at rim is blackberrys has came off the business only shelf. They tried a new venue with the same tactics. They didn't have the foresight of advertizing.androids success is largely on that its on almost every device. It cost the manufacture nothing to use it or develope it. That and 1 little word "free". The apps are for you the advertisement is free to them.
    03-23-12 11:13 AM
  19. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Take note that RIM is undergoing transition; a huge one indeed. Maybe they have forseen this downward spiral and all and is actually expecting it. They're not flinching to the decreasing market share of US.
    Just curious. Why do folks outside of the U.S. constantly say that R.I.M. isn't flinching because of their decline in the U.S. market when everything they've said, so far, seems to indicate that they do indeed care about the U.S. consumer?
    Last edited by ADozenEggs@aol.com; 03-23-12 at 06:16 PM.
    03-23-12 05:16 PM
  20. peargood's Avatar
    Just curious. Why do folks outside of the U.S. constantly say that R.I.M. isn't flinching because of their decline in the U.S. market when everything they've said, so far, seems to indicate that they do indeed care about the U.S. consumer?
    RIM is of course concerned about the US market, which is significant. However, this company isn't going to go bankrupt anytime soon cause of the demand in other countries. Then again, you wouldn't wanna fail where you started right?

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk
    03-24-12 01:44 AM
  21. blackburberry's Avatar
    I can see Apple wanting to get their hands of some of RIM's back-end technologies, and using some of their cash reserves in the process to purchase/inject capital into one or two of RIM's divisions. No doubt RIM is vulnerable right now and Apple can be very aggressive toward the vulnerable.
    03-24-12 10:26 AM
  22. slashd0t's Avatar
    Last time I checked, profitable companies don't really go out of business..

    Anyone who says RIM will be dead by the end of 2012 is a moron.
    03-24-12 12:16 PM
  23. pr1nce's Avatar
    RIM has obviously been through some rough times lately. But I believe they will be around.
    03-24-12 01:08 PM
  24. louboutins's Avatar
    I'm still with BB, but from December 2011 onward, I've lost a good half a dozen friends to iOS (barf) and Android.
    03-26-12 02:47 PM
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