1. starman011's Avatar
    Let me paint a picture of what I see happening that everyone is avoiding (the eleplant in the room). RIM had no real reason to delay BB10 the chipset excuse was not valid in the least since LTE won't be fully developed until mid to late 2014...and this is only in the U.S., most of Europe and South and Central America haven't even started yet and considering that this is where RIM sells most of their phones waiting for a special chipset that will only be relevant to your customers is pointless. RIM is GOING to sell their hand set business or possibly form an agreement/partnership with another company. I wouldn't be surprised to see blackberry phones running Windows mobile in the very near future, in fact I honestly believe that this is why the CO-CEO buffoons are still around...basically they had already started negotiations and it would be to disruptive to pull them at this point. QNX is dead, just talke a look at the near complete uselessness of the PlayBook compared to even the cheapest android tablet running the 2 year old eclair software. Trust me on this...they are killing QNX and looking for an exit!!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-17-11 03:22 PM
  2. sam_b77's Avatar
    How do you know all this? Can you please lend me your crystal ball?? I want to check next week's winning lottery number.
    the_sleuth and kbz1960 like this.
    12-17-11 03:32 PM
  3. Budaman's Avatar
    I think that makes some sense. Of course he can't know for a FACT. BUt I think it's a interesting theory that could be very well true. i hope people don't get shot down around here when someone shares their thoughts or opinions.
    12-17-11 03:36 PM
  4. bluetroll's Avatar
    close thread please.
    12-17-11 03:42 PM
  5. spike12's Avatar
    I think that makes some sense. Of course he can't know for a FACT. BUt I think it's a interesting theory that could be very well true. i hope people don't get shot down around here when someone shares their thoughts or opinions.
    While I don't necessarily agree with the opinion, I do respect that fact that he labelled it as a prediction and speculation...
    the_sleuth likes this.
    12-17-11 04:08 PM
  6. moretreelessbush's Avatar
    RIM without handset biz could become a takeover target attractive to enterprise IT management vendors like HP, Oracle, ...
    12-17-11 04:14 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    There was an article that claimed that "influential" investors are clamoring for this... asking RIM to get out of the hardware business and focus on enterprise security.

    It's an intriguing proposition. Wonder if I can find the article...

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
    12-17-11 04:15 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    RIM without handset biz could become a takeover target attractive to enterprise IT management vendors like HP, Oracle, ...
    This article mentions that RIM might be better able to survive as an independent company by eliminating HW manufacturing and just becoming an enterprise services business.
    12-17-11 04:20 PM
  9. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    There was an article that claimed that "influential" investors are clamoring for this... asking RIM to get out of the hardware business and focus on enterprise security.

    It's an intriguing proposition. Wonder if I can find the article...

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
    It's here

    I tried to copy and paste the text of the article for people who do not want to click the link, but Crackberry is giving me 502 bad gateway errors each time I try. Posted about error in site bugs forum already.
    12-17-11 04:22 PM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It's here

    I tried to copy and paste the text of the article for people who do not want to click the link, but Crackberry is giving me 502 bad gateway errors each time I try. Posted about error in site bugs forum already.
    Yep, that was it... text below (via reuters.com).

    It might seem like corporate heresy but an increasing number of technology investors and experts are asking whether Research in Motion needs to ditch its BlackBerry handset business to survive.

    The idea that is gaining favor, albeit only among a minority of shareholders, would see the Canadian company fully open its secure and highly respected network to rival smartphone providers and concentrate on that business while getting out of the hardware game altogether through a sale.

    Disappointing quarterly results, including a dismal outlook for Blackberry sales and word that RIM would delay the introduction of new devices, sent its shares down more than 11 percent to their lowest levels in almost eight years on Friday.

    Just before those numbers were released, activist shareholder Jaguar Financial called on the company to sell its handset business and monetize its patent portfolio while retaining the high-margin services business. "Jaguar believes that the road map to value restoration lies in a sale of RIM whether as a whole or in separate parts," it said.

    RIM's spidery, data-crunching network reaches behind corporate firewalls and taps into mobile networks globally.

    The network, unique among handset makers, has been a cornerstone of the BlackBerry's growth - with email and instant messages routed through RIM's own enterprise servers and data centers, where it is encrypted and pushed out to subscribers.

    There are no middlemen to intercept corporate or state secrets, or even the flirty chats of teenagers who love the free BlackBerry messaging.

    TERMINAL DECLINE?

    Jaguar, which claims support from shareholders who own about 8 percent of RIM's stock but only owns a tiny fraction itself, also reiterated its call for a change in the company's leadership.

    It has called for a new "transformational" leader to replace RIM's co-CEOs Mike Lazaridis, the company's co-founder, and Jim Balsillie, the mercurial salesman who has marketed the BlackBerry to the world.

    It is not alone in wondering whether a sharp decline in Blackberry sales - the company said it expects the number of devices it ships in the quarter including Christmas will drop as much as 26 percent from a year ago - is a sign of terminal decline for the product.

    The company's network has stronger margins and more secure recurring revenue, though it still needs to be fully exploited.

    "If they want to maintain that asset, if not stabilize or grow it, they need to open it up to the other platforms and look at themselves as an enterprise software company," ThinkEquity analyst Mark McKechnie said.

    RIM is likely already working on just such a change, said a U.S.-based shareholder, who declined to be identified. The fund manager, whose firm owns more than 1 million RIM shares, said delays launching new software and devices may reflect efforts to fully accommodate devices from outside RIM's own stable.

    A year ago, talk of ditching the BlackBerry would have been almost unthinkable, let alone garner any serious attention. That was before a spectacular meltdown that has seen the device, once an essential tool in the top echelons of business and politics, being pushed aside by Apple's iPhone and smartphones powered by Google's Android software.

    The deterioration in the business has been so great that some analysts now estimate that RIM is barely making money on BlackBerry sales.

    MASSIVE DISCOUNTS

    That isn't its only problem. The PlayBook, the company's latecomer in the tablet market dominated by Apple's iPad, has been a deflating disappointment, forcing RIM to offer massive discounts on the unloved device. It took a $485 million pre-tax charge for the Playbook, which runs on QNX software that RIM plans to use in its future devices.

    The severity of RIM's problems shows up in its share price. It crashed to a low of just $13.12 on Friday, after trading as high as $144 in 2008 and about $70 in February this year. A company that was once worth almost $80 billion is now valued at barely $7 billion.

    Meanwhile, the subscriptions that businesses and network operators pay RIM each month brought in more than $1 billion in each of the past two quarters.

    The company declined to comment on talk that it will ever abandon the BlackBerry and did not grant interviews with either Lazaridis or Balsillie for this story.

    Balsillie announced a comprehensive review of RIM's operations on a conference call with analysts on Thursday.

    "We plan to introduce new devices into the smartphone and tablet market, as well as products and services that better leverage our global cloud infrastructure, and unique capabilities within the smartphone market, he said.

    While RIM hasn't given any indication it plans to give up on its BlackBerry handset, it has started to emphasize its services business.

    EXTRA STEP

    In late November, RIM took a first step that could eventually lead to establishing the network as a standalone operation. It introduced a software tool giving corporate customers the option of linking iPhones and Android devices to the BlackBerry network.

    The move stops short of offering outsiders access to its unique technology that encrypts data and pushes it out to the BlackBerry. Going that extra step is exactly what some critics suggest that RIM needs to consider.

    RIM charges a monthly fee to every BlackBerry user, making its network a stable stream of revenue and giving the company an advantage over every other handset maker. For RIM, it has become a more reliable source of profit than shipping its own smartphones.

    The strategic reasoning goes: Why build a staid Volvo or a flashy Ferrari when you can own the toll highway on which they drive?

    "There is a massive under-utilized asset in the services infrastructure which is very profitable. I think they are getting ready to come to market with a way to leverage that," said the U.S. fund manager. "At a minimum, I think they are going to start aggressively doing things that leverage their infrastructure beyond RIM handsets."

    RISK IN WAITING

    Mike Abramsky, an analyst at RBC Capital Markets, raised the prospect of RIM splitting in two back in July. For him, the biggest risk is waiting. He says RIM's still-growing global subscriber base gives it time to make the move, but the network too would suffer if the BlackBerry keeps slipping.

    Alternative networks that provide many of the same features as the BlackBerry enterprise network are already making inroads. Eventually even that jewel could lose its cachet, he says.

    "The risk in waiting is that as more companies switch over to alternatives, it will be difficult to attract them back to BlackBerry even as a network-only business," he said, referring to companies such as Good Technology and SAP's Sybase, which encrypt and manage data for iPhones and other devices.

    Abramsky said offering a managed network for users of all handsets would expand RIM's potential market by six times or more. At the same time, the network business likely boasts an 80 percent gross margin versus a handset business in the high 20 percent range.

    Lazaridis has been betting on reinvigorating the Blackberry by hoping that QNX, the new operating system, will help RIM catch up and perhaps overtake the iPhone and Google's Android and stifle Microsoft's emerging mobile platform.

    The new system is supposed to allow devices to be updated on the fly and should also help third-party developers that struggle to write appealing apps in RIM's aging framework. A dearth of BlackBerry apps compared with Apple and Android has limited RIM's attractiveness to many consumers.

    But RIM has yet to show it can make the transformation successfully. The first of the new generation of QNX-equipped smartphones - the BlackBerry 10 line - was initially promised for early next year, but on Thursday RIM said it did not expect to release a BlackBerry 10 device until the latter part of 2012.

    The delay in the make-or-break QNX line will only accelerate the drive among investors for sweeping change.

    What's clear to many investors and analysts is the status quo will mean an accelerating fade into irrelevance.

    "Investors have been extremely patient and they're being asked to wait another year," said a Canada-based shareholder. "A year from now, will all this be too little, too late?"
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-17-11 05:35 PM
  11. starman011's Avatar
    Seem as though some people are angry about my "prediction" for RIM...I'm not saying that RIM will vanish and that we'd lose our beloved devices. I'm just saying that obviously RIM lost the OS war and I believe that their are enough intelligent people at RIM that know that Android and Apple caught on fire and RIM was caught with dated technology flat footed
    12-17-11 06:17 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I do not see RIM getting out of the handset business at this point, but one never knows.

    IBM became successful again once they got out of the PC business.
    12-17-11 06:28 PM
  13. chrism_scotland's Avatar
    I really can't see RIM ditching hardware, I could see them adopting Android or as mentioned Windows Phone instead but while hardware sales have been poor in the US they are growing elsewhere where they are getting more popular rather than declining, perhaps QNX was a mistake but having seen how good the OS is on the Playbook - albeit missing some features - I have faith that when the BB10 phones come they will be really good!
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-17-11 07:00 PM
  14. Vanti's Avatar
    It is truly sad and as much as i hate to even want to admit it. It may be a very real possibility Rim has done lees than spectacular in 2011 and it doesn't seem as if they would be doing any better in 2012 unless BBX where to be amazing.... but the fact is that the CO-Ceos are LIARS and totally unprofessional when it comes to there public affairs.
    12-17-11 09:30 PM
  15. Vanti's Avatar
    I'm just saying that obviously RIM lost the OS war and I believe that their are enough intelligent people at RIM that know that Android and Apple caught on fire and RIM was caught with dated technology flat footed
    Could you expound a bit further on this statement because i fail too see how BB lost the OS war. I myself live in america but im not ignorant to the fact that there are other countries that do exist and that Rim has a Goliath presence there.....
    12-17-11 09:34 PM
  16. the_sleuth's Avatar
    OP does have one valid point. RIM needs a strategic partner. Trying to do it all, alone against Google and Apple is not working. I am not sure if Microsoft would be the right choice.

    RIM has already adopted Android with the Android Player, for which is a novel way to sandbox the security vulnerabilities of Android. I presume BBOS 10 would be the same.

    I really can't see RIM ditching hardware, I could see them adopting Android or as mentioned Windows Phone instead but while hardware sales have been poor in the US they are growing elsewhere where they are getting more popular rather than declining, perhaps QNX was a mistake but having seen how good the OS is on the Playbook - albeit missing some features - I have faith that when the BB10 phones come they will be really good!
    12-17-11 09:34 PM
  17. starman011's Avatar
    Could you expound a bit further on this statement because i fail too see how BB lost the OS war. I myself live in america but im not ignorant to the fact that there are other countries that do exist and that Rim has a Goliath presence there.....

    Well I've lived is some of those countries and RIM sell a lot of very cheap low end devices to people that can't afford android or apple devices, a large number of Blackberrys that I personally ran accross were even connected to any type of data service. Google has been making a point to start delivering cheaper phones and apple 3gs has been lowered substantually price wise...as for losing the OS battle...just compare the app stores along with aftermarket support...not to mention stock prices and you'll see who's winning and who's losing.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-18-11 12:53 AM
  18. chrism_scotland's Avatar
    I do see a lot of parallels between RIM right now and Nokia a couple of years ago, stuck with the ageing Symbian OS plummeting sales in key markets but maintaining share as their growth in emerging markets remained good. Of course Nokia ditched their own Maemo OS to pair up with Microsoft, the test is will RIM succeed with QNX or will they also have to submit to signing an agreement with Google or Microsoft to license an existing OS.

    Frankly I don't see RIM's market share being as bad as Nokia's was, while US sales are woeful they are still selling very well in the rest of the Western World, particularly Europe along with more low income markets

    Most phone companies are no longer looking at the US as the main market it once was, the big big growth is going to come in India and China, places where RIM is doing well, similar to how Nokia managed to survive a difficult 2 years by keeping sales of low cost phones going in emerging markets, the difference is that despite all the claims RIM do still have a large corporate presence and it seems that Android and iOS don't yet fulfil the security criteria that BB5/6/7 do and that QNX already seems to have, it wouldn't surprise me to see RIM retrench into their key enterprise market and perhaps license out the OS to a consumer handset partner, but there is a sound business logic and reason for RIM persisting with QNX and that is the enhanced security that business and government have come to expect from RIM and while the next 18 months are going to be difficult I don't see it being any worse than what Nokia have recently gone through.

    If the first BB10 phone can be as well received as the Nokia Lumia 800 then its amazing how quickly people will start coming back to RIM and saying "they never doubted them......."
    12-18-11 07:06 AM
  19. kbz1960's Avatar
    There is an OS war? Well let me see. I know I'm in a minority but iOS? No thanks, I don't like it at all. Android? Don't like it either. BBOS? I like it. QNX? Love it even though it isn't finished yet.
    chrism_scotland likes this.
    12-18-11 07:44 AM
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