[southernguy0306]

hahaha....im not bashing cops in it, im pointing out their flaws.....two different things.....

Just like everyone in that thread was pointing out YOUR flaws

[Doc750]

Interesting thread, I wonder why i have never seen it before.

I've been volunteering with the local fire dept since I was 17, so a little over 14 years now. So I've been dealing with cops most of my life.
For the most part they're a great bunch of guys one on one. But the rules you guys have to enforce sometimes are ridiculous.

I wish more of your time was allocated to solving murders, responding to domestic violence, and enforcing drug policy and building community relations to have your finger on the pulse of the community. Instead I percieve you guys not as there for my safety but as revenue collectors for the state.

I don't understand the speed limit laws. Everyone speeds. I mean everyone. Everday they speed. They why have speed laws enforced the way they are? It's literally a lottery every time you get in your car. Do I get a ticket today or not? Every day that goes by I consider myself lucky.

Instead of pulling over anyone doing 70. Why not sit there and wait for the guy weaving in and out of traffic, and cutting people off and give him the ticket. He's the one who's actions are going to lead to an accident. Not the guy doing 70 on an open 4 lane highway. This never made sense to me. Which leads to only one conclusion, that it really doesn't matter to you. As long as you pull over "x" number of people per shift, then you've done your job, and feel like you've made a difference. Your boss is happy b/c your pulling in "x" number of dollars for the state to pay for the next round of police cruisers and equipment and justify the existence of a lager police force.


For the record I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in almost 7 years. Due to a change in driving habits, the way I use my passport detector, and just plain dumb luck. Watch tomorrow I'm going to get pulled over.


and lastly, I ride a sportbike. Man, just the way you guys look at me when I'm on the bike. You can tell you look at me like "go ahead, pop a wheelie, try to run, I dare you." When I get pulled over, and usually for some BS reason just to see if I have a license and registration and insurance on the bike. You should see the look of surprise when they see a 32 year old adult standing there. And then I'm like "hey how is John doing. I was in the ER when he came in that day." and now all of a sudden I'm your best friend. I guess what I'm getting at is, the look of presumed guilt I get from police officers when they see guys on sport bikes just makes you feel like a second class citizen living in a police state.

Now when I'm on the harley and speeding. I get a quick flash of the strobe lights and a gesture to slow down. That's it. I don't even get pulled over.

I really wish we could do something to build better relations between leo and sportbike riders.

[southernguy0306]

In response to you Doc, we cant pick and choose the laws we enforce, we HAVE to enforce them all. Since your a volunteer firefighter, that be like saying I wish yall wouldnt work as many wrecks, instead I wish yall would get more cats out of the trees.

And just to throw in there, the guy doing 70 is just as much a hazard as the guy weaving. He could have a blow out and wreck and hit an "innocents" car while doing 70. Or, when one of your family members gets in a head on with a guy doing 70, can we say we dont enforce the speed laws?

The reason the laws are there is because somewhere at sometime there was somebody that proved that whatever they were doin is a danger to other people, so they make a law that forbides that action. As much as I wish we could just enforce some laws and not others, we cant. Every sworn officer took an oath to uphold all the laws (not just a chosen few).

Im not flamming, just giving you some things you may not have thought about.

[dannieloco]

preach.. you're right. haha

I dont hate cops, I just dont like how they have a "I dont care who you are, I just wanna be flex my power at your expense right now" attitude - especially when they pull you over.

In my town, half the cop force are those kids who were high school delinquents.. I dont get it.. but it works out cause half of them foolios are good friends of mine till this day.

[southernguy0306]

preach.. you're right. haha

I dont hate cops, I just dont like how they have a "I dont care who you are, I just wanna be flex my power at your expense right now" attitude.

In my town, half the cop force are those kids who were high school delinquents.. I dont get it.. but it works out cause half of them foolios are good friends of mine till this day.

So who should we enforce the laws against? Just anyone that does you harm?

My mother raised me to believe that if I did wrong then to be MAN enough and accept the consequences. If something happens and I break the law and end up in jail, Im not gonna bad mouth the cops, Im gonna MAN up and say I did wrong.

Just my .02

[southernguy0306]

It may just be me (I am getting old), but it seems to me that the generations of the "youngsters" are going downhill at an amazingly fast rate.

[dannieloco]

Its not about man'n up to the consequences. Im specifically referring to the attitude cops HAVE!!! Look, Im hispanic, and for some reason, getting pulled over is never something easy to handle. It always starts off with the passive agressiveness of the cop. Now, what im talking about is that cops in my town dont take the moment to sense what sort of people it is that they pulled over. They begin with their regular attitude that is geared to dealing best with the thug (wish I had a better word). I dont mind getting a ticket - tickets wont stop me from going 10 miles over the speed limit when Im in a hurry, I just wish car searches, bad mouthing, and disrespecting didnt have to occur.

Its a thing of life.. cops are assess like that. (but I dont hate em!) haha

Im not a youngster, Im nearing my late 20's and Im a professional in the healthcare industry of Los Angeles. I've attended top schools in LA and have never gotten in trouble with the law - My dad is almost 60 and he gets the same mistreatment.

[southernguy0306]

Well again, if you follow that train of thought, then sales clerks, fast food restaurant employees, doctors, lawyers and people of every other job classification are @sses cause there are "bad _____ (insert job classification) in every job.

Do you agree to that?

I had a sales clerk give me an attitude today. So does that mean all clerks are @sses?

[Doc750]

In response to you Doc, we cant pick and choose the laws we enforce, we HAVE to enforce them all. Since your a volunteer firefighter, that be like saying I wish yall wouldnt work as many wrecks, instead I wish yall would get more cats out of the trees.

And just to throw in there, the guy doing 70 is just as much a hazard as the guy weaving. He could have a blow out and wreck and hit an "innocents" car while doing 70. Or, when one of your family members gets in a head on with a guy doing 70, can we say we dont enforce the speed laws?

The reason the laws are there is because somewhere at sometime there was somebody that proved that whatever they were doin is a danger to other people, so they make a law that forbides that action. As much as I wish we could just enforce some laws and not others, we cant. Every sworn officer took an oath to uphold all the laws (not just a chosen few).

Im not flamming, just giving you some things you may not have thought about.

I completely understand which is why I prefaced my statement by saying I don't understand some of the laws you have to enforce.

But to specifically address your example, the guy doing 45 could just as easily blow out a tire and spin out and hit my family member. That's just fate. But to me at least the guy doing 70 in a straight line is much less of a danger the the guy bobbing and weaving between lanes. I believe lack of attention to your surrounding environment is what has more harm then just speed alone.

And while yes I understand you guys don't make up the rules. But we all know a lot of laws are not necessarily the best laws. And when written, allow the person who enforces the law a bit of leeway in applying the law.
You do have the ability and in other circumstances outside of speeding use your own personal judgement in how to respond to the situation. I just ask that you guys do the same here.

And I didn't take anything you say as a personal attack, and I hope you don't take anything I say in that manner either. Your job is pretty much a thankless job, and the majority of people are going to dislike you. No one ever remembers the good things you do. But it just takes one bad cop to screw it up for the rest of you, and that's the one everyone remembers and talks about.

[dannieloco]

Well again, if you follow that train of thought, then sales clerks, fast food restaurant employees, doctors, lawyers and people of every other job classification are @sses cause there are "bad _____ (insert job classification) in every job.

Do you agree to that?

I had a sales clerk give me an attitude today. So does that mean all clerks are @sses?

yes i do. I really do. and in that case, I believe they should find a job that they enjoy instead of continuing to work at something theyre not happy in. A clerk, etc might treat customers poorly, but that has a lot to do with the person not being 100% happy with work/or line of work/or people she comes to contact with while working.

I enjoy work. i deal with people all day everyday. Unlike cops and clerks, etc I dont deal with people in pissy moods nor do contribute to making their day worse off. If I did, Id hate my job too.

[southernguy0306]

Your right Doc, and I dont take anything on the forums personally, well, because its the internet.

But yeah, Ill agree that there are alot of stupid laws and yes, we do have officer discretion, but usually our discretion is used for the better of the common person. yeah I will continue to writes speeders, not cause we have a quota ( which we dont cause they are illegal) but because at that time and moment that person appeared to me to be the most dangerous (id explain, but I cant go into it on an open forum about the excessive speed). And yes, if theres someone going 70 and someone weaving all over the place, Id have to see the two to decide who I pull over.

[southernguy0306]

yes i do. I really do. and in that case, I believe they should find a job that they enjoy instead of continuing to work at something theyre not happy in. A clerk, etc might treat customers poorly, but that has a lot to do with the person not being 100% happy with work/or line of work/or people she comes to contact with while working.

I enjoy work. i deal with people all day everyday. Unlike cops and clerks, etc I dont deal with people in pissy moods nor do contribute to making their day worse off. If I did, Id hate my job too.

So Id be justified in thinking all sales clerks are @sses then?

PS: I dont think that about anybody. I dont judge the majority on the actions of the few (and Im not saying you do, just saying).

[dannieloco]

Its all good. I never meant for this convo to go this far. Im not being fully understood but then again, Im also trying to argue something that is deep down and hard to explain. I have nothing against cops. We need cops in our cities and they do play a critical role... Ill leave you at that.. =)

[southernguy0306]

I know. And theres no hard feeling I hope. Just a friendly debate

[Spartacus802]

But to specifically address your example, the guy doing 45 could just as easily blow out a tire and spin out and hit my family member. That's just fate. But to me at least the guy doing 70 in a straight line is much less of a danger the the guy bobbing and weaving between lanes. I believe lack of attention to your surrounding environment is what has more harm then just speed alone.

As a Crash Reconstructionist I would have to disagree with you about speed. Speed is a prevailing factor in most fatality crashes. A person who rear-ends another vehicle at 70 miles per hour with the other car going slower has enough momentum to cause enough of an energy transfer to cause serious injury to the occupants.

The faster you go the more energy you bring into a crash. A vehicle doing 70 miles per hour will increase the speed of the slower vehicle upon impact.

So do I think speed is a killer. Yes I do. Agressive traffic enforcement for speed WILL decrease the amount of crashes. Do a study on any department that has increased enforcement at high crash locations. You will find the crashes have decreased.

As a volunteer fire fighter I was a little suprised at your comments. Unless you enjoy working serious to fatality crashes I would think you would applaud the fact that we enforce the speed limit for a reason. I love working crashes. But I would rather spend time doing traffic enforcement so I wouldn't have to spend sometimes days working on one fatality crash. Its not over for me once you pack up your fire truck and leave.

[anon(375378)]

It may just be me (I am getting old), but it seems to me that the generations of the "youngsters" are going downhill at an amazingly fast rate.

I saw it happen personally. I started out in a school district police department back in 1991. When I first started working there and would visit the different schools, the kids would want to talk to me. I could go into the different high schools and the teenagers would speak to me, ask me questions and would want me to sit down in the lunch room and answer questions from them while they were eating.
As the years progressed, they stopped saying hello, started avoiding me entirely and started showing lack of respect to any and all adults.

In some cases, it was a taught response. In the mornings, I would drive around the bus stop areas and check on the children waiting. I would wave and speak to them every chance I got, trying to instill the idea that we were approachable if they needed us. One day as I drove by a stop, I waved and said good morning to some elementary students. An older middle school child grabbed her sisters hand as she stated to wave at me and yelled don�t wave at him. I had to stop and ask why she said that. She stated her parents told her not to ever trust the police. I just told her every police officer isn�t bad and drove off. It was a shame to me that young little girl was going to grow up afraid of the police especially if she needed help.

[dannieloco]

whoa, thats low...

ima tell my children (when I have some) to trust in police. I think it goes to the hole racial sort of thinking.. that one black/latino guy breaks the laws and everyone assumes that blacks/latinos all break laws to some level. Similar to police officers. Some are resepectable professionals, while other lack the humbleness required to maintain a healthy relationship with the community they deal with. Some cops abuse their powers, maybe not to the extremity of being fired or causing an uproar, but enough to upset some people - who in turn tell their children to not trust cops.

One bad apple doesnt ruin the entire apple basket.

[corpnetsolutions]

Answer this, when a cop is uniform, they step in to stop a crime. When out of uniform(and I have seen this happen) A guy could be smacking his girlfriend around and does nothing to intervene. Made me think twice about how cops really are.

and this. Why do cops brag about harrassing and beating up people, and being poud of it.

BTW (Not the same cop and not the same city.)

[Lz]

Hypothetically speaking if I wanted to rob a bank. What would be the best way to do so without getting caught

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[msblueline]

Answer this, when a cop is uniform, they step in to stop a crime. When out of uniform(and I have seen this happen) A guy could be smacking his girlfriend around and does nothing to intervene. Made me think twice about how cops really are.

and this. Why do cops brag about harrassing and beating up people, and being poud of it.

BTW (Not the same cop and not the same city.)

I would actually like to answer this question for you.

I am going to make you the cop... OK! (Just so you understand).

You are in uniform. You wear your pants, shirt, socks, and shoes... OK, sounds wierd, but it is the basic what every person wears every day... We hope!

Now! lets gear you up... I am giving you your Badge, bullet proof vest(yeah right! nothing is bullet proof.). Your gun belt, with your handcuffs, mace (if carried), tazer (if carried), baton or asp (if carried), your extra ammo in the magazines, and your police radio.... Oh, and your Police Car... it might be crappy, it might be good, who knows...

OK now you have the basics to do the job.

You are called out on the scene of a domestic violence case. You park about...mmm, 2 or 3 houses down and walk up cautiously... WITH YOUR BACK UP PARTNER. You approach the door and see him slapping her down, beating her in the head. He has a knife and has it in his hand on the downward swing... what are you going to do?



Ok, now you are off duty, in your jeans and a T-shirt, you walk by and hear some screaming, you see a guy slapping the crap out of his girl... You see him grab a knife and he is on the downward swing, what are you going to do?

Think about it then answer...

On the other question, Because all city's have sorry @ss cops. I do agree with you on that, I also agree that some of these @ss holes have no business carrying a badge let alone a gun. That is why we have Internal Affairs (IA)... We cannot intervene on bad cops, that is their (IA) job.

msblueline

[dannieloco]

On the other question, Because all city's have sorry @ss cops. I do agree with you on that, I also agree that some of these @ss holes have no business carrying a badge let alone a gun. That is why we have Internal Affairs (IA)... We cannot intervene on bad cops, that is their (IA) job.

msblueline

That was my point exactly.. cops get a bad name because of a few of them not deserving of the rights to be a law enforcer.

[msblueline]

That was my point exactly.. cops get a bad name because of a few of them not deserving of the rights to be a law enforcer.

Yes and you're right, BUT,

You have to look at it like this too.

We as the cops don't make that decision. Don't blame the cops becasue of bad cops... Are you going to blame the other clerks becasue of the of pissy asses that work the register. NO! You have to blame management. The other clerks did not hire them.

Same goes for the bad cops, don't blame us, we didn't hire them.

Blame the management:

The Mayor, the Chief, Human resources, The Academy for letting them graduate, their friends for lying about how they really are, their family for lying, The doctors who said they has a sound mind...... BUT, don't blame the other cops....

That is MY point!

NOTE: the majority of the aboved named are CIVILIANS... some are not, but most ARE.

msblueline

Another note: how many places have you been where you see people working on stuff and they have no idea what they are doing. I see it all the time. We also live in era of it no longer matters what you know, if matters who you know.

It is sad to say, people get hired because they need a Black, or a hispanic, or a white to fulfill their obligation (watch George Lopez). It is sad to say that we are hiring people because of their ethnicity rather than their experience... This should tell you about what we as a nation have become, not just law enforcement. Sorry, not trying to turn the tides to anything else here, just making another point.

[dannieloco]

I must be writing out something else, cause Im not being understood. Im not blaming any cops for the horrible job theyre doing. Since my first post, Ive been putting up the idea that
1: one bad cop can change the image of cops in the mind of the person who dealt with it.
2: i too dont believe that all cops are bad. cops shouldnt bejusged on the actions of bad cops because theyre a small percentage of the force.
Argh.. Im probably not going to be understood... im out.

[msblueline]

Let me start off by apologizing. I did not in any way want you to think I am directing this towards "you".

I am actually just speaking out loud, but using your post to do it.

I really am speaking to all those who blame cops... Don't! It is not us cops that are at fault. It is, the fault of those @sses that chose to go bad.

It is like the teller at the bank. He/She got the job for one reason and one reason only... To steal money.

Some people get jobs as cops so their "home boys" can get away with whatever they want.

There are people taking criminal justice, not for good, but to beat the system.

Just like the slimy @ss citizen who cries lawsuit at the smallest incident that "they" caused... (Watch them on 'caught on video') I guess I could blame society as a whole for the lousy ones, but then, who is left... The cats and dogs... Wait, the robots will take over soon, so it won't matter.

msblueline

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[corpnetsolutions]

I would actually like to answer this question for you.

I am going to make you the cop... OK! (Just so you understand).

You are in uniform. You wear your pants, shirt, socks, and shoes... OK, sounds wierd, but it is the basic what every person wears every day... We hope!

Now! lets gear you up... I am giving you your Badge, bullet proof vest(yeah right! nothing is bullet proof.). Your gun belt, with your handcuffs, mace (if carried), tazer (if carried), baton or asp (if carried), your extra ammo in the magazines, and your police radio.... Oh, and your Police Car... it might be crappy, it might be good, who knows...

OK now you have the basics to do the job.

You are called out on the scene of a domestic violence case. You park about...mmm, 2 or 3 houses down and walk up cautiously... WITH YOUR BACK UP PARTNER. You approach the door and see him slapping her down, beating her in the head. He has a knife and has it in his hand on the downward swing... what are you going to do?



Ok, now you are off duty, in your jeans and a T-shirt, you walk by and hear some screaming, you see a guy slapping the crap out of his girl... You see him grab a knife and he is on the downward swing, what are you going to do?

Think about it then answer...

On the other question, Because all city's have sorry @ss cops. I do agree with you on that, I also agree that some of these @ss holes have no business carrying a badge let alone a gun. That is why we have Internal Affairs (IA)... We cannot intervene on bad cops, that is their (IA) job.

msblueline

My first question wasn't answered though. In the situation you gave me, I would act the same wether off duty or on. If a citizen was in danger and I was off duty, I would announce my staus as being a police officer and take action. Most off duty cops I know carry their weapons with them off duty. When you become a police officer you are sworn to protect, not just 9 to 5. Many police officers do not follow that. That's why I lost respect, not for all cops but many who treat it as a 9 to 5 job. I do have many friends that are police officers, so obviously I don't hate cops. As a matter of fact, I buy all my weapons and ammo from a gun shop owned by a police officer. I just have a problem with those as I mentioned above.