1. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Bloody heck, I'll do a backup of all my curves and bolds and pray my desktop doesn't die. I'll even find those backups on the hard drive and save them to thumb drive as double backup! Blackberry isn't going to force me to use an android daily. I'll go to winphone or hey even palm first before doing that.

    My main concern is BBID. If I remove my sim and put it back into a bold or curve, how will I bypass BBID if that is shut down? Or is that not server dependent?
    I don't think that will be a problem, since there will be nothing left to log into with the BBID. Given that you can run the devices without BIS, on carriers that don't offer any connection to the NOC, it's not likely that we will face anything like the webOS activation issue.
    12-16-17 04:42 PM
  2. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    My main concern is BBID. If I remove my sim and put it back into a bold or curve, how will I bypass BBID if that is shut down? Or is that not server dependent?
    I was reading another thread and @conite was saying that without BBID you wouldn't be able to wipe or reinstall the OS on a BB10 device. I don't know if that would also be a problem on OS7. Maybe he knows.
    12-16-17 06:42 PM
  3. Nguyen1's Avatar
    Well, I switch my sim card around a lot. Every time I take it out of my 9900, I need to enter my BBID password next time I use the sim-less phone. Everything I put it back in, I have to re-enter the BBID password. If this is all just on the device and has nothing to do with servers, all is good. Another option, I suppose I could just log out of BBID about a month before the shut down and see what happens. I'll let you know...in two years.
    RaybanRJ and mushroom_daddy like this.
    12-16-17 07:11 PM
  4. mushroom_daddy's Avatar
    What's happened to Opera Mini on the 9900? It used to be good for rapid, content-focussed browsing of web pages that the BB OS stock browser would load slowly, poorly, or not at all. Now Opera Mini seems to load (totally unrelated, random) advertisement pages in between each page click. I don't like that and I'm sure it never used to happen
    Is it a regional network problem or are others experiencing the same?
    12-17-17 05:56 AM
  5. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    What's happened to Opera Mini on the 9900? It used to be good for rapid, content-focussed browsing of web pages that the BB OS stock browser would load slowly, poorly, or not at all. Now Opera Mini seems to load (totally unrelated, random) advertisement pages in between each page click. I don't like that and I'm sure it never used to happen
    Is it a regional network problem or are others experiencing the same?
    You're definitely correct. It did not used to happen. I can't remember precisely when the advertising began, but I get it too. I think Steve mentioned it a while back as well, so it seems to be global.

    UC Browser still works. It's fast, but renders pages so-so.

    I also use Google web light, which we discussed a while back: https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post12971963

    If you use Google web light, you're visiting sites through a proxy server, but that's also the case with Opera Mini and UC Browser.
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    12-17-17 09:22 AM
  6. idssteve's Avatar
    What's happened to Opera Mini on the 9900? It used to be good for rapid, content-focussed browsing of web pages that the BB OS stock browser would load slowly, poorly, or not at all. Now Opera Mini seems to load (totally unrelated, random) advertisement pages in between each page click. I don't like that and I'm sure it never used to happen
    Is it a regional network problem or are others experiencing the same?
    Yep. And the "x" switches corners so that muscle memory can't clear it without cognitive distraction. Lol. I guess Opera devs need income too... lol.

    BUT!!! I'm getting mighty fatigued of being treated like a "starving student"!!! I'm willing, and prefer, to PAY for what I use!!! Browser, Apps, media, HARDWARE!!!.... I don't need, nor want, "someone else" paying for it! When "someone else" writes the check, that "someone else" becomes the customer!! We, the non-paying end user, simply become cogs in a wheel... if not bricks in a wall... to get "pink" about it. Haha.

    I prefer to maintain my relevance as a customer by PAYing it mySELF! Which has to be what we're doing anyway... advertisers ultimately get their money from our pockets one way, or another. AND leverage money derived from OUR pockets to finance coercive extortion on US! Lol. Brilliant, I must say... still... I'd happily pay my portion of that advertising revenue to NOT be distracted from earning my OWN income from grateful clients!! There was once some talk about an SAF model... haha...

    Note to Earth: We are not ALL still "starving students"! SOME of us have WORK to do! Lol.
    12-17-17 10:28 AM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    You're definitely correct. It did not used to happen. I can't remember precisely when the advertising began, but I get it too. I think Steve mentioned it a while back as well, so it seems to be global.

    UC Browser still works. It's fast, but renders pages so-so.

    I also use Google web light, which we discussed a while back: https://forums.crackberry.com/showth...1#post12971963

    If you use Google web light, you're visiting sites through a proxy server, but that's also the case with Opera Mini and UC Browser.
    Been curious about that... I guess we can assume some sort of data mining market model out of Google?? Safest to assume ANYthing we do is wide open anyway... lol.
    12-17-17 10:34 AM
  8. idssteve's Avatar
    Well, I switch my sim card around a lot. Every time I take it out of my 9900, I need to enter my BBID password next time I use the sim-less phone. Everything I put it back in, I have to re-enter the BBID password. If this is all just on the device and has nothing to do with servers, all is good. Another option, I suppose I could just log out of BBID about a month before the shut down and see what happens. I'll let you know...in two years.
    Yep, wouldn't that be a "bonafide bite on the bottom" if, after all the hand wringing over BIS, BBID ultimately shuts us down! For our own "protection"!! Lol.
    12-17-17 10:42 AM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    Look at Palm. The servers are GONE, the app store is GONE, the OS is EOL years ago, and yet a loyal group has preserved the apps here and there and found ways to activate the Palms and keep them going AND even do updates once in a blue moon. If WebOS users can do it, why can't we? How do we preserve our apps?
    I've long felt that CB's collective knowledge, experience, skill sets, resources, etc... could provide nurturing laboratory in pursuit of some sort of "open" BBOS project. A significant obstacle would be that some of the most knowledgeable potential players also seem to suffer "legacy derangement syndrome" antipathy toward ANYthing BBOS. Lol.

    Even so, my management (some lurk these threads ) has asked me about possibilities... idk... ??
    rayporsche likes this.
    12-17-17 11:03 AM
  10. Newfangled's Avatar
    I've long felt that CB's collective knowledge, experience, skill sets, resources, etc... could provide nurturing laboratory in pursuit of some sort of "open" BBOS project. A significant obstacle would be that some of the most knowledgeable potential players also seem to suffer "legacy derangement syndrome" antipathy toward ANYthing BBOS. Lol.

    Even so, my management (some lurk these threads ) has asked me about possibilities... idk... ??
    Intriguing idea. But unless a way can be found to root existing BlackBerry hardware, I'm not sure how feasible it would be. I would love to see a Bold 99XX or Q10 running a Linux or Android-forked OS - skinned to look and feel like BBOS or BB10 - that puts privacy and security first, while providing some good email, messaging, and web browsing functionality.

    And yes, such a community would probably still have to endure some antagonism from those who must engage in self-deception in order to feel better about their own choices, but I hope that many of them will eventually move on to greener trolling pastures - like getting after people still using a PRIV or KEYone when the shiny, new KEYthree is available.
    12-17-17 11:17 AM
  11. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Intriguing idea. But unless a way can be found to root existing BlackBerry hardware, I'm not sure how feasible it would be. I would love to see a Bold 99XX or Q10 running a Linux or Android-forked OS - skinned to look and feel like BBOS or BB10 - that puts privacy and security first, while providing some good email, messaging, and web browsing functionality.

    And yes, such a community would probably still have to endure some antagonism from those who must engage in self-deception in order to feel better about their own choices, but I hope that many of them will eventually move on to greener trolling pastures - like getting after people still using a PRIV or KEYone when the shiny, new KEYthree is available.
    Even with an open bootloader and root, maintaining an existing OS and building a new one involve very different levels of difficulty/work/etc.

    Some great webOS developers/hackers have kept the existing OS going, but the progress on LuneOS (a fork of Open webOS that currently runs on the Nexus 4, Nexus 5 and the HP Touchpad) has been very slow. Of late, however, the creation of the Halium project holds out hope that a lot of the difficult work might be shared by several OS projects. https://halium.org/
    idssteve likes this.
    12-17-17 12:03 PM
  12. idssteve's Avatar
    Intriguing idea. But unless a way can be found to root existing BlackBerry hardware, I'm not sure how feasible it would be. I would love to see a Bold 99XX or Q10 running a Linux or Android-forked OS - skinned to look and feel like BBOS or BB10 - that puts privacy and security first, while providing some good email, messaging, and web browsing functionality.

    And yes, such a community would probably still have to endure some antagonism from those who must engage in self-deception in order to feel better about their own choices, but I hope that many of them will eventually move on to greener trolling pastures - like getting after people still using a PRIV or KEYone when the shiny, new KEYthree is available.
    I know of no other collection of knowledgeable enthusiasts that might hold a slim chance of a dim hope to pull it off. Some of CB's power players might prove critical to that slim chance of success. Most of them have provided invaluable assistance to the community over the years and I, for one, am eternally grateful to them. I also understand where assisting a community to keep BBOS running got justifiably maddening. Lol.

    Let's be honest, when we proclaim affection for BBOS, it's really its GUI we're talking about... and most especially the hardware that GUI interacts with... We're certainly not expressing affection for BBOS' memory management... lol. I just don't see where fixing memory management demanded abandonment of toolbelt or required such monster handset proportions!?? Lol.

    Extrapolating current trends, we might need wheels to transport K3? And maybe a step ladder to reach "send"...??? Lol. Of course, we can always hope the glass phreaks designing these things might actually learn to use PKB & Toolbelt well enough to understand the handful (pun intended ) of characteristics that transform PKB & toolbelt from added on features into efficiently collaborative mobile communications SYSTEMS.... maybe by Key99??? Haha...
    Last edited by idssteve; 12-17-17 at 02:19 PM.
    12-17-17 01:32 PM
  13. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Let's be honest, when we proclaim affection for BBOS, it's really its GUI we're talking about... and most especially the hardware that GUI interacts with...
    I know that none of the people who stopped using BB OS before the final versions will believe this (and understandably, since the spinning clock/hourglass will be etched in their memories forever), but there's nothing as snappy as the final builds of OS7 either. The basic, built-in apps respond instantaneously.
    Last edited by Shuswap; 12-17-17 at 04:55 PM.
    12-17-17 04:04 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    I know that none of the people who stopped using BB OS before the final versions will believe this (and understandably, since the spinning clock/hourglass will be etched in their memories forever), but there's nothing as snappy as the final builds of OS7 either. The basic, built-in apps respond instantaneously.
    Yeah, 7.0 & early 7.1 suffered reliability issues that took far too long to resolve. Resources drained off toward BB10 efforts likely contributed to 7.1's delayed maturity. 6.0 suffered miserable memory leaks, too. I keep my 9650 on 5.0, for that reason alone. Latest 7.1 versions finally achieved admirable performance and reliability. Really haven't seen enough of the spinning clock (or hourglass?) since latest build to recall if it was a spinning clock? Or was it an hour glass?? Just respect its limitations and enjoy its strengths! .

    I, myself, plan to utilize 99 as a typing keyboard, if nothing else, so long as I can keep it running and data xfer functioning to "connected" devices for well beyond 2 years. OR until Key99... lol.
    mushroom_daddy and rayporsche like this.
    12-17-17 08:08 PM
  15. mushroom_daddy's Avatar
    .... Just respect its limitations and enjoy its strengths! ....
    That could be a battle cry for us 'Bold Adventurers' as we charge into 2018 and beyond ---
    'Respect its limitations and enjoy its strengths!'
    12-18-17 02:22 AM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    That could be a battle cry for us 'Bold Adventurers' as we charge into 2018 and beyond ---
    'Respect its limitations and enjoy its strengths!'
    Haha... words of an "old school" engineer... lol. Applies to ALL of life's endeavors.

    A slight re-wording of something dear old Gramps picked up from his boss... "Boss Ket"... if you're not familiar with "Boss Ket", Google him. Be prepared for quite a life's story.
    12-18-17 07:30 AM
  17. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Haha... words of an "old school" engineer... lol. Applies to ALL of life's endeavors.

    A slight re-wording of something dear old Gramps picked up from his boss... "Boss Ket"... if you're not familiar with "Boss Ket", Google him. Be prepared for quite a life's story.
    "After breaking an arm in a fall from a hay mow, he became ambidextrous, later teaching himself how to write simultaneously with each hand." Hmmm. Sounds like Boss Ket might have been someone's inspiration around here.
    idssteve and Newfangled like this.
    12-18-17 07:45 AM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    "After breaking an arm in a fall from a hay mow, he became ambidextrous, later teaching himself how to write simultaneously with each hand." Hmmm. Sounds like Boss Ket might have been someone's inspiration around here.
    Guilty as charged... Lol.
    Newfangled likes this.
    12-18-17 08:29 AM
  19. ColinsCity's Avatar
    SOooo.... that idiotic "EOL statement" back in fall of 2011 was only 8 years premature... lol. 20191231 sounds like a good date to retire. Again... lol.

    BBW is already pretty dysfunctional. I'll be getting Classic up and running as best possible asap. Funny how the assumption is that BBW costs them money to maintain but they fail to charge adequately for the service! We are not ALL starving high school users! SOME of us would justify 10x pricing for SOME of the products at BBW! What market model are they implementing? Why are they not even attempting to optimize return to share holders by PRICING EOL products into natural extinction? ??? I've NEVER grasped Waterloo's market strategies. ... ???? Lol.

    Still, shutting down BB10 and Priv can make sense since, other than BBW (which they seem committed to NOT earning a dime on. Lol), there's precious little revenue generated there after initial sale. Last I heard, BIS was still generating relatively high margin revenue.... are they saying that they intend to pull the plug on BIS revenues at some date certain? Regardless of subscription numbers? Or might that "at least" verbiage indicate possible flexibility based on how much BIS fees they're still generating in two years???

    The "legacy derangement syndrome" BB haters around here will, I'm sure, spend the next two years dancing (and 'other things') on what's left of BB's grave while self congratulating each other for their collective contribution to the demise of WORK optimized mobile technology. Lol.

    20200101 will certainly be an interesting date. For BBW, "at least". Lol. Might be fun to run a "ball pot" on how long after that date BIS runs? Good date to schedule my 4th (or would it be 5th??) retirement. Haha...
    This news made me curious to buy a Classic, and i found a White Classic on eBay in very good condition for £50, i should receive it later this week, hopefully for Christmas so i can set up the Google Play Store on it and use the Android Whatsapp in January. I Don't think i will stop using the 9900 though, i will keep using it until the BIS is unsupported in my country, but it will definitely be good to have everything set up in case it becomes harder to set things up in BB10, i know that for BB7 anyone who was already registered and active user of Viber can continue to use it today, i was just a little too late re-joining BB7 for that.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Newfangled likes this.
    12-18-17 09:12 AM
  20. Newfangled's Avatar
    I know of no other collection of knowledgeable enthusiasts that might hold a slim chance of a dim hope to pull it off. Some of CB's power players might prove critical to that slim chance of success. Most of them have provided invaluable assistance to the community over the years and I, for one, am eternally grateful to them. I also understand where assisting a community to keep BBOS running got justifiably maddening. Lol.

    Let's be honest, when we proclaim affection for BBOS, it's really its GUI we're talking about... and most especially the hardware that GUI interacts with... We're certainly not expressing affection for BBOS' memory management... lol. I just don't see where fixing memory management demanded abandonment of toolbelt or required such monster handset proportions!?? Lol.

    Extrapolating current trends, we might need wheels to transport K3? And maybe a step ladder to reach "send"...??? Lol. Of course, we can always hope the glass phreaks designing these things might actually learn to use PKB & Toolbelt well enough to understand the handful (pun intended ) of characteristics that transform PKB & toolbelt from added on features into efficiently collaborative mobile communications SYSTEMS.... maybe by Key99??? Haha...
    Yes, it's not just the UI, it's the entire UX (user experience). The way the hardware interacts with the software on a 99XX has no equivalent among mobile phones, not even among other BlackBerry devices. Classic comes close, but falls short in many ways. It makes up for it somewhat with newer hardware (better camera, LTE capability, etc.) and access to more apps, but I found it impossible to achieve the same degree of effortless OS and app navigation on a Classic that I was able to quickly master with a 99XX.
    12-18-17 09:40 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    This news made me curious to buy a Classic, and i found a White Classic on eBay in very good condition for £50, i should receive it later this week, hopefully for Christmas so i can set up the Google Play Store on it and use the Android Whatsapp in January. I Don't think i will stop using the 9900 though, i will keep using it until the BIS is unsupported in my country, but it will definitely be good to have everything set up in case it becomes harder to set things up in BB10, i know that for BB7 anyone who was already registered and active user of Viber can continue to use it today, i was just a little too late re-joining BB7 for that.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Toolbelt makes Classic the most single handed friendly of BB10, imo. It, and 99, represent the two most powerful single handed friendly devices, to date. Imo.

    Some folks don't feel the need for single handed ease but... Ease is ease... Some folks don't feel the need for unwieldy monster sized distraction while typing. I prefer to focus on the topic being typed, than distracted by the typing equipment itself. Single or double handed...
    12-18-17 10:02 AM
  22. Newfangled's Avatar
    Toolbelt makes Classic the most single handed friendly of BB10, imo. It, and 99, represent the two most powerful single handed friendly devices, to date. Imo.

    Some folks don't feel the need for single handed ease but... Ease is ease... Some folks don't feel the need for unwieldy monster sized distraction while typing. I prefer to focus on the topic being typed, than distracted by the typing equipment itself. Single or double handed...
    Speaking of distraction, Android is designed to maximize the distractions, not minimize them. Scores of apps (and the developers behind them) are competing for your attention because that's how they make money. Android is only too willing to accommodate.
    12-18-17 10:07 AM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    Yes, it's not just the UI, it's the entire UX (user experience). The way the hardware interacts with the software on a 99XX has no equivalent among mobile phones, not even among other BlackBerry devices. Classic comes close, but falls short in many ways. It makes up for it somewhat with newer hardware (better camera, LTE capability, etc.) and access to more apps, but I found it impossible to achieve the same degree of effortless OS and app navigation on a Classic that I was able to quickly master with a 99XX.
    Yep. 99 represents a maturely refined UX that coordinates most HMI interactions in exquisitely symbiotic fashion. Priv & K1 too clearly illustrate that simply adding a physical keyboard to the bottom of a slab won't ever approach 99's collaborative productivity, imo. It's better than a slab if you have need of zero error typing BUT the entire chassis and UI must work together as a SYSTEM. I'm just hoping that the folks developing K2 actually hold in their hand and USE a 9900 long enough to comprehend what's needed...

    I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't like motorcycles to design a motorcycle that enthusiasts really like. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't like PKB or Toolbelt to design a handset that PKB enthusiasts really like.
    Newfangled likes this.
    12-18-17 10:37 AM
  24. idssteve's Avatar
    Speaking of distraction, Android is designed to maximize the distractions, not minimize them. Scores of apps (and the developers behind them) are competing for your attention because that's how they make money. Android is only too willing to accommodate.
    Yep, that's the "brave new world" we're looking forward to. Dopamine for Soma. Lol. An "offer we can't refuse" once our legacy BBs get switched off in a couple years. Lol. Even mighty Apple might not resemble anything recognizable by then. ??
    Newfangled likes this.
    12-18-17 11:00 AM
  25. Newfangled's Avatar
    Yep. 99 represents a maturely refined UX that coordinates most HMI interactions in exquisitely symbiotic fashion. Priv & K1 too clearly illustrate that simply adding a physical keyboard to the bottom of a slab won't ever approach 99's collaborative productivity, imo. It's better than a slab if you have need of zero error typing BUT the entire chassis and UI must work together as a SYSTEM. I'm just hoping that the folks developing K2 actually hold in their hand and USE a 9900 long enough to comprehend what's needed...

    I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't like motorcycles to design a motorcycle that enthusiasts really like. I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't like PKB or Toolbelt to design a handset that PKB enthusiasts really like.
    As long as they keep their wagon hitched to Android's star, I doubt they will ever be able to fully recreate the 99XX "sweet spot". They could fork Android like Amazon has done for their Kindle tablets, but then they would cut themselves off from the Google Play Store and all of Google's other seductive products and services.

    The purpose - the WHY - of any creative endeavor influences every stage of its development. Privacy, security, reliability, and productivity are in the very DNA of BBOS devices from the first sketch and the first line of code. This is also true of BB10 devices, although perhaps to a lesser degree, since the BB10 designers and developers were intentionally (and IMO foolishly) sequestered from the BBOS masterminds and had to reinvent the wheel the best they could.

    As I mentioned earlier, Android was designed first and foremost to be a data-collection platform to feed Google's greedy targeted advertising apparatus. Have you ever seen Miyazaki's brilliant animated film Spirited Away? I see Google (and Facebook and Amazon and to a lesser extent Apple and Microsoft) as the "No-Face" character. The more you feed it, the more it wants. And the more of an out-of-control monster it becomes. To recreate the 99XX magic, most (if not all) of the data-collection, ad-serving junk that is baked into Android would have to be purged, just like No-Face had to do to return to his mellow, non-bloated self.

    But it goes far beyond the OS - the apps, too, must be designed to take total advantage of the hardware of a 99XX. It makes no sense to have a toolbelt and keyboard if apps are not designed to use them! This was a common frustration I had with using Android apps and even some non-optimized BB10 native apps on a Classic.

    On the 99XX (and all other BBOS devices), the UX of apps and OS were tightly integrated. The best apps were not designed to be their own self-contained experience - they were designed to be a natural extension and augmentation of the core UX. BB10 tried to recapture that magic and did a fairly decent job - it certainly captures it better than Android or even iOS - but it still cannot compare to BBOS. (On a side note, I think Windows Mobile also did an excellent job at seamlessly integrating OS and app UX, especially in the Windows Phone 7 and 8 days.)

    Even if the KEYtwo had a toolbelt and a more Bold-like form factor, it would likely prove to be frustrating to those of us who have embraced the UX of a BBOS device.
    rayporsche likes this.
    12-18-17 12:02 PM
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