1. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Yep, still plugging along...working in a play onstage in Washington DC.
    Wow!

    Notice I didn’t say the full name of the show because I am wondering if anyone else is still wondering
    Frehley likes this.
    11-27-17 06:00 PM
  2. BBerryNerd's Avatar
    This is my q10 I modified the bezel to make it look like the 9900ish I love it
    11-27-17 06:07 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    Well I've ordered a KEYone today, going to the dark side, dancing with devil etc.
    I've been using an Android slab (as a play phone) for a couple of years, so have few worries about the move. The fact is, if you want a new BlackBerry, with a pkb, there's only one place to go right now.
    I expect to keep using my 9900 and Q10 for some time but I know that sooner or later there will be a need to jump to an alternative smartphone OS.
    Ironically, it was my efforts to keep the 9900 running as a 'daily driver' that pulled me nearer to Google. G mail (and the calendar) syncs much better than most others I have used (GMX, mac/me mail). Most of my personal mail now gets routed into Gmail so that I can easily pick it up on my 9900.

    -- posted via CB10 on my Q10 --
    Given your Q10 and previous Android experience, i'd predict you'll get along ok with K1. Its keyboard is surprisingly good, for a two hander. It really, REALLY needs a toolbelt to help tame the giant thing, tho. Imo.

    My 99 still does the typing heavy lifting...
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    11-27-17 07:07 PM
  4. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    This is my q10 I modified the bezel to make it look like the 9900ish I love it https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...474238dcae.jpg
    What exactly did you do to the bezel?
    11-27-17 07:14 PM
  5. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    What exactly did you do to the bezel?
    You can buy a silver bezel on eBay. In fact, it's cheaper to just buy the whole white housing/bezel and steal the bezel. I have a Bold-ified Q10 too. So does Newfangled. Or he did, anyways.
    11-27-17 07:21 PM
  6. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    You can buy a silver bezel on eBay. In fact, it's cheaper to just buy the whole white housing/bezel and steal the bezel. I have a Bold-ified Q10 too. So does Newfangled. Or he did, anyways.
    So......the Q10 comes with a black bezel from the factory? K
    11-27-17 07:22 PM
  7. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    This is my q10 I modified the bezel to make it look like the 9900ish I love it https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...474238dcae.jpg
    Holy hell, you've got a lot of mail. :O
    11-27-17 07:24 PM
  8. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    So......the Q10 comes with a black bezel from the factory? K
    Yes. Precisely.
    11-27-17 07:25 PM
  9. BBerryNerd's Avatar
    What exactly did you do to the bezel?
    No, I had a white q10 with a faulty motherboard, I took it’s silver bezel and put it in my black q10 which had a black bezel from factory.

    RaybanRJ and rayporsche like this.
    11-27-17 07:27 PM
  10. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Yes. Precisely.
    That’s funny, that is exactly the opposite of what everyone is doing when they buy a fitbit blaze like I just got, they are paying an extra $50 for the black framed version called gun metal or something. I would never do that I like the look of the silver bezel and that pretty much applies to everything, I like the contrast.
    11-27-17 07:53 PM
  11. idssteve's Avatar
    If only we could retrofit the Q with a toolbelt!
    11-27-17 09:01 PM
  12. BBerryNerd's Avatar
    If only we could retrofit the Q with a toolbelt!
    I remember When bb10 came out, and the big thing was swiping gestures and no home button on the z10 or z30. All my friends had a iPhone 5 which was the model out that time. They all mocked the swiping from the bottom and up to switch screens.

    Now the iPhone X works exactly that way.

    I agree the tool belt on the 9900 and OS 7 devices was productive, but I think the Q10 and OS 10 were fine without it and they also brought swipe gestures in way before anyone else.
    11-27-17 09:08 PM
  13. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    That’s funny, that is exactly the opposite of what everyone is doing when they buy a fitbit blaze like I just got, they are paying an extra $50 for the black framed version called gun metal or something. I would never do that I like the look of the silver bezel and that pretty much applies to everything, I like the contrast.
    Yep. Everyone wants whatever the manufacturer didn't make. Years ago the cool kids substituted black bezels on their Bold 9000s and 9900s. Then BlackBerry makes the Q10 all 'murdered-out' like the gangstas wanted, and we go and install silver bezels on 'em. You can never please everybody!
    RaybanRJ and mushroom_daddy like this.
    11-27-17 09:09 PM
  14. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    and they also brought swipe gestures in way before anyone else.
    Except Palm. :|

    webOS had the swipe gestures in 2009. BlackBerry, Nokia, Jolla, and Apple all copied the gestures from Palm.
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    11-27-17 09:12 PM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I remember When bb10 came out, and the big thing was swiping gestures and no home button on the z10 or z30. All my friends had a iPhone 5 which was the model out that time. They all mocked the swiping from the bottom and up to switch screens.

    Now the iPhone X works exactly that way.

    I agree the tool belt on the 9900 and OS 7 devices was productive, but I think the Q10 and OS 10 were fine without it and they also brought swipe gestures in way before anyone else.
    Swipe to "send"?? Haha. "Send" is a stretch too far, without trackpad, imo... Or try selecting and editing text boxes & spreadsheet cells without toolbelt. Lol.

    BB saw fit to include 35 physical keys on Q but not the 5 keys used most. Tragically misguided abandonment of 10's of millions of legacy users who depended on toolbelt for professional level productivity. Imo.

    That's 10s of millions of legacy users stranded from migration into BB10. 10s of millions who might have provided enough critical mass to "jump start" BB10's app ecosystem... Maybe. We'll nvr know. Just a shame BB felt so compelled to abandon the "BB experience" that had generated every dime of revenue they threw away on BB10, as implemented. Imo. Tragic.

    They eventually got back with Classic but felt compelled to sabotage that by supersizing the thing and embedding the battery. They just never saw fit to improve & repeat their single most successful model... 9900. Imo.

    Q might have been an epic success story, had they remembered they were BlackBerry... Oh well... Lol.
    11-27-17 09:42 PM
  16. RaybanRJ's Avatar
    Yep. Everyone wants whatever the manufacturer didn't make. Years ago the cool kids substituted black bezels on their Bold 9000s and 9900s. Then BlackBerry makes the Q10 all 'murdered-out' like the gangstas wanted, and we go and install silver bezels on 'em. You can never please everybody!
    I’m still getting over everyone whining and complaining over the special edition “Product Red” iPhone 7 because it had a white glass face and bezel. Everyone was furious and demanded a black front facing bezel and people were even putting black electrical tape to cover it up!!! Finally Apple had to give in and they made product red with a black face now I believe. I liked the red and white, very patriotic Canadian colours and a nice contrast but you are not kidding you can’t please everyone.
    11-27-17 09:55 PM
  17. mushroom_daddy's Avatar
    If only we could retrofit the Q with a toolbelt!
    Q might have been an epic success story, had they remembered they were BlackBerry... Oh well... Lol.
    That is indeed part of the problem with the Q10, which I regularly use as my work phone for its excellent ActiveSync capabilities. I miss the trackpad and there's no question that editing text is faster and more precise on the 9900. The Q10 is a very capable phone and, as I don't edit spreadsheets for a living, I can manage without the trackpad.
    In my opinion, the real problem with BB10 is the 'App Gap' –– and my requirements are relatively simple.
    Arguably, the bundled apps on my 9900 are more useful to me than those on the Q10, which amongst other things, lacks a decent note/memo app (that syncs to multiple devices), has an inferior calendar, and poor task management options. It's difficult to extend apps on the Q10 without resorting to Android ports, and the more of these that go on the Q10, the more its performance suffers. It niggles me that I can't get a version of Kindle reader that runs well on my Q10. The Kindle app on my 9900 works brilliantly!
    Last edited by mushroom_daddy; 11-28-17 at 03:10 AM.
    idssteve and rayporsche like this.
    11-28-17 02:55 AM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    That is indeed part of the problem with the Q10, which I regularly use as my work phone for its excellent ActiveSync capabilities. I miss the trackpad and there's no question that editing text is faster and more precise on the 9900. The Q10 is a very capable phone and, as I don't edit spreadsheets for a living, I can manage without the trackpad.
    In my opinion, the real problem with BB10 is the 'App Gap' –– and my requirements are relatively simple.
    Arguably, the bundled apps on my 9900 are more useful to me than those on the Q10, which amongst other things, lacks a decent note/memo app (that syncs to multiple devices), has an inferior calendar, and poor task management options. It's difficult to extend apps on the Q10 without resorting to Android ports, and the more of these that go on the Q10, the more its performance suffers. It niggles me that I can't get a version of Kindle reader that runs well on my Q10. The Kindle app on my 9900 works brilliantly!
    Yep, such the pity Q left so much Bold behind. Toolbelt aside, BB10, as intro'd in 2013, simply wasn't ready for market. They eventually matured it to tolerable usefulness but it never matched the smooth refinement of 7.1. Even to the latest version, one still can't insert rows in spreadsheets. Or first letter shortcuts in menus. (We FINALY got shortcuts in time for Classic, at least. Lol). BB10.3.3 month view in calendar can get confused as to the name of the month displayed. Etc, etc... Early BB10 represented amateur hour at BB, imo. Since no single part of it was ever based on 7.1, intentionally, it really should have been referred to as BB1.0. They were originally going to call it BBX but ran in to trademark conflicts, I'd always heard. X being Roman Numeral for 10 led to BB10 and subsequent misrepresentation of its refinement level, as introduced. There were things about 10 that were better than 7.1 because it was a different OS from ground up. NOT because it had built on 7.1 in any way. BB10 devs were reportedly sequestered from 7.1 devs by intentional strategy. Because of a silly book Mike had read, it seems. Lol.

    For my company, trading our Bolds for Z/Q that first year felt like trading our SnapOn tool chests for generic Walmart wrenches... Minus ratchets! Classic at least restored ratchets. Even tho it felt like they'd fitted a 3/8 drive into a 3/4 body! Lol. Folks accustomed to toys never noticed, I suppose.

    Productivity wise, K1 feels more like I've traded my SnapOn tool chest Bold for a worn out pair of pliers!! Lol. I've performed desperate roadside operations on my old 65 Panhead Harley (back in "the day" lol) with only a pair of worn out pliers... It CAN be done!! Lol. Not so professional, tho. Just glad I can still use pro grade Bold. Dreading the day I can't...
    rayporsche and mushroom_daddy like this.
    11-28-17 03:56 AM
  19. Twisted Fate's Avatar
    @Shuswap I see you are also the fan of Palm devices Which one is the best right now? HP Palm Pre 3? Which one offers more in terms of functionality, Pre 3 or Bold 9900 (without the BIS)?
    11-28-17 05:21 AM
  20. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    @Shuswap I see you are also the fan of Palm devices Which one is the best right now? HP Palm Pre 3? Which one offers more in terms of functionality, Pre 3 or Bold 9900 (without the BIS)?
    The Pre3 is probably the best Palm phone. It has the highest resolution, largest screen, and the fastest processor. On the negative side, many people have reported that the back cover cracks. I have a tiny crack near the USB port on mine, but it's covered by a Skinomi skin, so it's not visible. I seem to recall people mentioning slider related issues too (possibly cable damage).

    Whether the Bold 9900 (without BIS) or the Pre3 offers more functionality depends on what you want to do.

    Both do email. The Bold can do POP and IMAP with Logicmail (but requires workarounds for many providers), but the Pre3 has EAS support. Certificates can be an issue at times, but see below re: certificate updates.

    Both CAN do MMS messaging, but writing the necessary service books for the Bold 9900 without BIS is quite difficult. Setting up the Pre3 is easy. SMS works without problems on both models.

    Both have decent notes, tasks, and contacts apps. But the Pre3 has a working Simplenote client, so you can sync your notes through that service. Memotoo will sync the Bold's Memopad notes to simplenote, but it's buggy and doesn't work well in both directions. The Pre3 will also sync your contacts and tasks with Outlook, so that's a bonus.

    Both have working and very functional Tapatalk apps (the Pre3 version is called Forums and still has an active maintainer, @Grabber5.0 )

    The Pre3 and webOS are easier to work with, app wise. I am not a programmer (although I can hack other people's code a bit), and I fixed the reddit app myself.

    The Pre3 gets certificate updates and still has an active community of developers. This is a big win for the webOS side, as developers can patch the system and provide updates that we never get anymore on OS7. There is also an open source app repository (Preware), and a huge collection of over 6000 "freed" apps on an FTP server.

    At this point, you might well be wondering where the Bold has the advantage.

    1. Cut and Paste. Seriously. It's flawless on the Bold. The webOS implementation of cut and paste is awful. Selecting text is difficult and sometimes, you cannot select the precise text you want. You end up selecting a bigger chunk and editing after the paste.

    2. Expandable storage. The Bold has it. The Pre3 does not. My Pre3 is a European model, and came with 8GB, half of which is unavailable owing to OS usage and addressing a database problem that plagues Pre3's. So you're not going to put much in the way of music on it. The unreleased AT&T models had 16GB, but there were none of those available at a reasonable price when I bought mine.

    If I was to buy one now, I'd want the American version, for the storage and the 3G bands. Mine only has 1900 mhz (and not 850). It works all through the 200-mile long semi-urban sprawl where I live, but if you go into more remote areas, it helps to have the additional band.

    3. Keyboard. The Bold 9900 has a great keyboard. The Pre3's keyboard is smaller. It's good, but smaller, and after all these years, mine double types occasionally. Who knew? Double-typing(tm). It's not just a BlackBerry thing.

    I think I've hit all the major points.


    Edit: No Whatsapp on webOS. Soon to be no Whatsapp on OS7.

    And to add to this, unless you just want to spend a few bucks and play with old tech -- or you're looking to de-grid -- I wouldn't recommend either device at this point, since people always say that they don't need much in the way of apps and services, but then do. :P

    Also, webOS devices seem to be getting curiously more expensive on eBay. BlackBerries are still a dime a dozen.

    If you like repairing your own devices, the Bold 9900 is MUCH easier to work on than a Pre.
    Last edited by Shuswap; 11-28-17 at 09:33 AM.
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    11-28-17 09:18 AM
  21. idssteve's Avatar

    ... after all these years, mine double types occasionally. Who knew? Double-typing(tm). It's not just a BlackBerry thing.
    ...
    Just about any hard electrical contact can experience phenomena like "drag" and "bounce" that can be interpreted as multiple i/o inputs by a processor. It's sop when programming our industrial PLCs to include software filtering onto virtually all i/o. Analog or discrete. Prevents a whole lot of potential troubles. Especially with dangerous and expensive equipment.

    We believe we see signs of "time based" discrete io filtering in BBOS. Something that seems to have eventually found its way into BB10 for mitigating the doubletype issue. Since I'm forced to slow down on Classic, or letters get missed, BB10's time delay might be considered excessive. Just another example of QNX's learning curve. Have to get really outrageously fast to start missing characters on 99. Excessive or not, most folks never notice the constraint and it HAS been effective at mitigating BB10 doubletype, tho.
    11-28-17 09:39 AM
  22. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Since I'm forced to slow down on Classic, or letters get missed, BB10's time delay might be considered excessive.
    Use a Passport. It will slow you down enough to prevent any "overspeed" issues.
    idssteve likes this.
    11-28-17 09:50 AM
  23. idssteve's Avatar
    Yep, notice that on my PP also. Lol. BB10's time based io filtering was obviously applied to PP as well. My Classic type rate is faster than on PP. Mostly because I find Classic more comfortable for single handing.

    99 devs obviously found a "Goldilocks" just right time delay that effectively inhibits DT without significantly inhibiting user input. BB10 guys had to overkill to overfix likely knowing they'd never get another chance to fine tune. 99 is still a master of typing speed AND precision, imo.
    11-28-17 10:02 AM
  24. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    the Q10, which amongst other things, lacks a decent note/memo app (that syncs to multiple devices)
    I don't think there's any hope for remedies to the Calendar, tasks, or Kindle, but as far as notes go, the Android version of Simplenote runs flawlessly on BB10. Unlike almost every other Android app I've ever used, it seems to actually shut down when you close it. As a result, it has no appreciable impact on battery life. It might as well be a native app. I've used it for years now and recommend it without reservation.

    I think we've discussed Simplenote before in relation to the 9900. But for the benefit of others, Simplenote is dead simple (think BBOS's Memopad), syncs to the cloud, and is cross-platform (Windows, Linux, OSX, iOS, Web, and unofficially, webOS).
    mushroom_daddy likes this.
    11-28-17 12:54 PM
  25. mushroom_daddy's Avatar
    I don't think there's any hope for remedies to the Calendar, tasks, or Kindle, but as far as notes go, the Android version of Simplenote runs flawlessly on BB10. Unlike almost every other Android app I've ever used, it seems to actually shut down when you close it. As a result, it has no appreciable impact on battery life. It might as well be a native app. I've used it for years now and recommend it without reservation.

    I think we've discussed Simplenote before in relation to the 9900. But for the benefit of others, Simplenote is dead simple (think BBOS's Memopad), syncs to the cloud, and is cross-platform (Windows, Linux, OSX, iOS, Web, and unofficially, webOS).
    Agreed. I like Simplenote and do use it on my Q10 (and other devices). However, I don't find the interface very smooth and there are subtle (and to me frustrating) differences in how text editing behaves in an Android port compared with native BB10 applications.
    Noted is a useful BB10 app and I often use that to bash out text notes. That can be used to 'share' with Simplenote to permit syncing, but you have to remember to do that each time.
    11-28-17 01:34 PM
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