1. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Haha... always heard they disabled the time travel enable check box early on... liability concerns, ya kno. Lol. Probably a good thing since it's crazy easy to be working with the wrong month in Classic's calendar monthly view... lol. Given delays in BB10 maturity, maybe that calendar is what their devs were using?? Lol.

    All physical motion gets defined with time as a variable. In sub light realities, anyway. Lol. Since no physical displacement of handset components needs to take place to generate an input on VKB, I define VKB input as two dimensional X, Y input. PKB input involves X, Y, Z and T. T being time required to physically displace that Z coordinate between two states... pressed, and not-pressed. T gets involved as first derivative velocity (both directions) and second derivative acceleration & deceleration (both directions). Third derivative of T might also help define that addictive "key snap" we all love so much. Lol.

    Accelerating and decelerating the inertia mass of key combined with thumb generates momentum that must be reacted, equal and opposite, by fingers grasping the handset. These inertia generated forces of momentum are in addition to the obvious spring force generated by key against thumb. I've previously just lumped those T derived inertia forces as over simplistic "displacement". "Displacement" generated "wiggle" impacts PKB precision, also. Hence, relevance of the "fourth dimension". Lol.
    Ok I BELIEVE you, you're an engineer
    09-24-17 08:46 PM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    On the "Art of the Roll", I've been using this Classic for a couple weeks now and as much as I was dying to try out this device, I think I still prefer the typing experience on the Q10. It's more compact than the Classic, therefore there is even less movement required for the thumbs and the slide/roll technique is that much more effective.

    The Classic does have a lot going for it - I do like the larger screen and the toolbelt has come in handy. The typing experience is excellent, but again, I have to give the Q10 a slight edge there.

    One glaring deficiency (besides the lack of apps, which is a given) is the non-swappable battery. Even if the battery can get me through an average day without needing a charge, there are still "un-average days" and times when the ability to do a quick battery swap would save me the headache of having to be tethered to a wall or external battery pack just to use my phone.

    I've been thinking I want to upgrade to a Priv, but I know the Priv battery wouldn't be much better than the Classic's and I'd still be faced with tethering it to a wall or battery pack more often than I'd want.

    But I don't want to be without a PKB anymore. Sure, six months on an iPhone proved that I can get by without one, but what is the fun in just getting by?

    So now I'm seriously considering getting a Q10 along with an external charger and a couple batteries, and I may try a "dual wield" arrangement with an Android phone of some kind to give me more of the apps and functionality I need. Maybe use the Q10 more for work and the other device more for personal use?

    I'm still mulling it over. But I could get a Q10 and accessories for dirt cheap now and that phone has served me well in the past - it's definitely been the BB10 device I've used the most and the one I keep coming back to.

    I'd consider a 9900, except the carrier I use (Ting) doesn't support BIS. And it also lacks some bare minimum functionality I require like the ability to sync multiple calendars from a single account.

    I want to believe the Priv would be good enough on its own to meet most of my smartphone requirements - but if I'm honest with myself I know it won't. I have owned a Priv once before, after all! But it might make a good second phone in a dual-wield arrangement...

    Posted from my  Classic
    For just typing speed and precision, I, personally, view Q10 as a second best behind 9900. Of usefully modern hardware, at least. Such a tragedy it didn't get blessed with tool belt. Some folks get by alright without it...??? I used Q for about 3 months after 9 months on Z10 and found spreadsheet editing utterly miserable on both. 9900 is a BEAST of competent spread sheet editing. But then, you might not do much spreadsheet editing?

    The other issue with Q/Z and MOST handsets these days, is lack of physical "END" key for positively ending a call. I've discussed the potential privacy issue with attorneys, physicians and fellow engineers and everyone of them have experienced at least one failure to disconnect a call. Everyone of them agrees it's a privacy issue that hasn't been adequately discussed. Everyone of them is still using their "soft off" handsets... so, go figure. Lol.

    If positively ENDing a call is important to you, 9900's physical end key pretty much ENDs the call no matter where you've migrated to mid call. Great for ending a call while continuing to update contact or appointment info without interruption, for example.

    Classic's physical "END" key only functions from call app. Which demands navigating back to call app to end the call. Distracting, but still FAR ahead of "soft end" Q/Z or?? imo.

    Those two issues were deal killers for me and sent me and my entire crew back to 9900. An almost ZEN experience after fighting that first year of Barely Baked When? ... lol. If you can live without a tool belt, Q is a great typing experience.

    Classic rates third for typing experience, imo, and its embedded battery is such an idiotic nightmare BUT toolbelt is worth the price of admission, for me. Almost, anyway... lol.
    09-24-17 09:09 PM
  3. idssteve's Avatar
    Ok I BELIEVE you, you're an engineer
    For better AND worse... lol. Still "old school", tho. An engineer who gets dirty and showers AFTER work. Lol.
    (before too... lol)
    anon(9721108) likes this.
    09-24-17 09:24 PM
  4. DallinCrump's Avatar
    For just typing speed and precision, I, personally, view Q10 as a second best behind 9900. Of usefully modern hardware, at least. Such a tragedy it didn't get blessed with tool belt. Some folks get by alright without it...??? I used Q for about 3 months after 9 months on Z10 and found spreadsheet editing utterly miserable on both. 9900 is a BEAST of competent spread sheet editing. But then, you might not do much spreadsheet editing?

    The other issue with Q/Z and MOST handsets these days, is lack of physical "END" key for positively ending a call. I've discussed the potential privacy issue with attorneys, physicians and fellow engineers and everyone of them have experienced at least one failure to disconnect a call. Everyone of them agrees it's a privacy issue that hasn't been adequately discussed. Everyone of them is still using their "soft off" handsets... so, go figure. Lol.

    If positively ENDing a call is important to you, 9900's physical end key pretty much ENDs the call no matter where you've migrated to mid call. Great for ending a call while continuing to update contact or appointment info without interruption, for example.

    Classic's physical "END" key only functions from call app. Which demands navigating back to call app to end the call. Distracting, but still FAR ahead of "soft end" Q/Z or?? imo.

    Those two issues were deal killers for me and sent me and my entire crew back to 9900. An almost ZEN experience after fighting that first year of Barely Baked When? ... lol. If you can live without a tool belt, Q is a great typing experience.

    Classic rates third for typing experience, imo, and its embedded battery is such an idiotic nightmare BUT toolbelt is worth the price of admission, for me. Almost, anyway... lol.
    I don't do much spreadsheet editing and when I do it's always when I'm sitting in front of a keyboard and mouse. But I can definitely see how advantageous a BlackBerry toolbelt would be for editing spreadsheets on a phone.

    I also don't do many calls - most of my mobile communication is via social media, SMS, and IM. But I do enjoy physical call buttons. I've never felt confident about tapping a screen to end a call.

    Unlike the 9900 toolbelt, which is integral to the UX in every way, the only thing I really like about the Classic toolbelt is the trackpad. It's brilliant for getting that little cursor exactly where I want it in the middle of a paragraph or sentence and for selecting, copying, and pasting text.

    I really enjoy using it in the browser - having a mouse pointer that can click on links with precision is so great!

    But it's obvious BB10 was originally designed to be a completely touch-based UX and the toolbelt was shoe-horned in later. So in many ways it's just redundant and doesn't really seem to fit.

    There are also instances where the existence of the trackpad actually detracts from or interferes with the experience. For example, when using the third-party Instagram app iGrann and scrolling through my feed, it overlays each photo with that light blue selection highlighter to show that's what the trackpad is currently trained on. Which is a useful feature in some situations, but totally ruins the Instagram experience by tinting every photo blue! And this annoying effect happens regardless of whether I scroll using the screen or the trackpad.

    I suppose if I trained myself to use the Classic toolbelt more I might feel differently, but I'm so used to navigating BB10 menus and apps using the touch screen that it doesn't even occur to me to use the toolbelt. It's a holdover from my Q10 days.

    I admit, trying to edit text on a Q10 could be frustrating, at times, but those times were fairly rare.

    Ooh, another thing that I miss about the Q10: dedicated Micro HDMI out. That has saved the day on more than one occasion.

    Posted from my  Classic
    09-24-17 09:44 PM
  5. idssteve's Avatar
    I do miss the Q's dedicated hdmi but Classic's Slimport works well enough, imo. Just takes a different adapter. Classic's trackpad works really brilliantly thru Slimport or Miracast onto large screens. Great for presentations. 9900 thru Playbook hdmi has been invaluable for presenting large screens & projectors for a lot of years. Even pretty recently. Well implemented Trackpad tames giant and tiny screens alike.

    Classic's trackpad implementation has matured to about 85-90% of 9900's refinement. Imo. I just don't believe the QNX guys understood toolbelt, or even understand why anyone would want such a thing. Lol. AND they just didn't have time to learn and implement toolbelt for the Q, imo. I remain convinced that development scheduling killed Q's toolbelt. Lacking time to implement it, they dropped it and tried to convince everyone we were better off without it anyway... lol. A tragic miscalculation that stranded tens of millions of loyal users. Tens of millions who, provided a legitimate migration pathway, might have helped jumpstart BB10's ecosystem?? Maybe???

    I also remain convinced loss of "smiling" ergonomic keyboard had more to do with filling the curved space left without the toolbelt than it had to do with "internal testing", as claimed back then. Lol. MY "internal testing" quantitatively refutes that. Lol. In the end, they made hardware accommodate for software delays that they really shouldn't have tolerated. Imo. Oh well...
    09-24-17 10:20 PM
  6. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Ok so I am glad that I downloaded Opera Mini again and my fav part of using the 9900 is being able to use Facebook again on the 99.

    I don't know why I had issuues with Opera Mini last year and the language kept reverting back to Spanish for some reason. I am CANADIAN, and I certainly don't even live close to Texas, so go figure

    I am also able to send and receive messages in FB through Opera and this alone makes it worth it.

    And thank God for that screen Dim app I bought, still works great and it is much needed because even at 10% brightness factory setting I can feel my face getting a tan.

    -sent from a beautiful Bold 9900
    idssteve likes this.
    09-25-17 01:07 AM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    Have you tried Opera's "night mode"?? Shortcut "N"...
    09-25-17 09:17 AM
  8. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Have you tried Opera's "night mode"?? Shortcut "N"...
    You just press "N" and nothing else? Is there a screen you have to be on for this to work? SEE, I have too many questions for something like this
    09-25-17 10:02 AM
  9. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    I've owned a Z10, Q10, and Passport SE, and the Q10 is by far the most ergonomic. The trackpad on the Classic would be a benefit, but since the BlackBerry button doesn't work the same way as on the 9900, I'm sure I'd end up cursing the thing constantly for not being what it should be. I like the Q10's keyboard a lot, and the size, removable battery, and storage are great. The processor speed is way behind the Passport though, and you do notice the difference if you have both.

    Oddly enough, Newfangled, you do get used to that Passport keyboard. One day, about four months in, I realized that my fingers were just finding the keys like old times on the 9900. But it took that long for me, and even though I have the muscle memory, it's never going to be as fast because your fingers have to travel so far between the keys.

    As usual, I find myself wanting the best of all worlds: how about a Q10ish device with toolbelt, octacore cpu, and an open bootloader?

    Sent from my Passport using Forum Fiend OSP
    09-25-17 10:50 AM
  10. DallinCrump's Avatar
    I've owned a Z10, Q10, and Passport SE, and the Q10 is by far the most ergonomic. The trackpad on the Classic would be a benefit, but since the BlackBerry button doesn't work the same way as on the 9900, I'm sure I'd end up cursing the thing constantly for not being what it should be. I like the Q10's keyboard a lot, and the size, removable battery, and storage are great. The processor speed is way behind the Passport though, and you do notice the difference if you have both.

    Oddly enough, Newfangled, you do get used to that Passport keyboard. One day, about four months in, I realized that my fingers were just finding the keys like old times on the 9900. But it took that long for me, and even though I have the muscle memory, it's never going to be as fast because your fingers have to travel so far between the keys.

    As usual, I find myself wanting the best of all worlds: how about a Q10ish device with toolbelt, octacore cpu, and an open bootloader?

    Sent from my Passport using Forum Fiend OSP
    Yes, I do lament the crippled and redundant functionality of the BlackBerry button on the Classic.

    Yikes - 4 months to get used to the Passport keyboard, and still not as fast as a Classic/Q10/9900 due to the width? Yeah, I knew almost right away when I had a SE and later an OG Passport that it's definitely not what I'm looking for in a device with a physical keyboard. Interestingly enough, of the 2 I actually preferred the feel of the OG Passport keyboard over the SE.

    If there was a Q10-ish device with toolbelt, removable battery, fast CPU, at least 32GB of internal storage, and an open bootloader, I would throw my money at it in a heartbeat.
    09-25-17 12:42 PM
  11. Nguyen1's Avatar
    The main failing of the Q10 is unease of navigation. I believe that all smaller handsets require some form of navigation tool (tool belt, scroll wheel, stylus, something) to offset the smaller screen. Bigger phones don't need this, but imagine trying to use a 9900 with a broken trackpad. Highly inefficient.

    I love the size, screen, portability of the Q10, but I rarely use my unit when my 9900 is so superior for ease of use.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900!
    idssteve likes this.
    09-25-17 01:25 PM
  12. idssteve's Avatar
    You just press "N" and nothing else? Is there a screen you have to be on for this to work? SEE, I have too many questions for something like this
    Well, you press "N" while Opera is up. It'll toggle between "nite mode" and ordinary with each press. Also, you can default to night mode in the general settings. .
    anon(9721108) likes this.
    09-25-17 02:20 PM
  13. idssteve's Avatar
    Yes, I do lament the crippled and redundant functionality of the BlackBerry button on the Classic.

    Yikes - 4 months to get used to the Passport keyboard, and still not as fast as a Classic/Q10/9900 due to the width? Yeah, I knew almost right away when I had a SE and later an OG Passport that it's definitely not what I'm looking for in a device with a physical keyboard. Interestingly enough, of the 2 I actually preferred the feel of the OG Passport keyboard over the SE.

    If there was a Q10-ish device with toolbelt, removable battery, fast CPU, at least 32GB of internal storage, and an open bootloader, I would throw my money at it in a heartbeat.
    ^^^this^^^. How many times have how many loyal users pleaded, begged and threatened over how many years for an upgraded 99?? A 99/Q10 form factor with tool belt, respectable specs, etc... I prefer the 99's battery config, charge contacts and convenience key. But would take a Q with a toolbelt. It'd be Andy based, at this point.

    LOYAL customer base, properly nurtured, can be leveraged into a most effective FREE sales force!
    09-25-17 05:34 PM
  14. DallinCrump's Avatar
    Anyone have experience holstering a Classic? How is it? I'm considering trying to keep my Classic but if I do a dual-wield phone arrangement I will need to holster it - there's no way I'm keeping phones in 2 pants pockets. The Q10 was perfect for holstering, but I'm concerned the Classic will be too bulky.

    Posted from my  Classic
    09-25-17 08:31 PM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I like the BB swivel clip leather magnetic flap holster for Classic. Magnet shuts her down nicely. No butt dials. Classic's bigger than Q or 99, for sure, but not really intolerable in holster.

    Other than battery, my biggest (pun intended lol) complaint with Classic is its size in hand. Reaching the far column of keys slows precise single thumb typing down, compared with 99/Q. I achieve faster type rates with Q. If type rate were the only consideration, Q is second only behind 99. Imo. BUT overall navigation, cursor placement, "soft end" issue, etc, including simply reaching the far corners of the screen with a thumb too short, generally make Q less efficient than Classic overall. Imo of course.

    Classic's toolbelt tames its size nicely. For everything but raw typing rate. Imo. Which compliments 9900's typing rate and other efficiencies nicely. Really love typing out messages like troubleshooting instructions, for example, on 99 in one hand while pulling up and consulting drawings, documentation, etc on Classic in the other hand. Only need one typing master (99). Toolbelt Classic fills in nicely for the other things. Imo.
    09-26-17 12:24 AM
  16. David Tyler's Avatar
    How many times have how many loyal users pleaded, begged and threatened over how many years for an upgraded 99?? A 99/Q10 form factor with tool belt, respectable specs...
    One of a few BlackBerry head-scratchers from recent years. The Bold was wildly popular; so much so that Chen re-opened the line to answer demand. The Q10, a real clunker, totally missed the mark; and even the Classic didn't feature a lot of what people loved about the Bold. Certainly neither could be called "an upgraded 99," which is what people _wanted_. In the BlackBerry 10 world, the Z30 was an award-winner, so well-received that BlackBerry fans were screaming for a premium "Z50." I thought -- non-removable battery aside -- it was pretty much "the perfect phone." BlackBerry's response to demand for a "Z50"..? A clunky, cheap Android slider with a ridiculous name.

    >sigh<

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    anon(9721108) likes this.
    09-26-17 09:57 AM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    One of a few BlackBerry head-scratchers from recent years. The Bold was wildly popular; so much so that Chen re-opened the line to answer demand. The Q10, a real clunker, totally missed the mark; and even the Classic didn't feature a lot of what people loved about the Bold. Certainly neither could be called "an upgraded 99," which is what people _wanted_. In the BlackBerry 10 world, the Z30 was an award-winner, so well-received that BlackBerry fans were screaming for a premium "Z50." I thought -- non-removable battery aside -- it was pretty much "the perfect phone." BlackBerry's response to demand for a "Z50"..? A clunky, cheap Android slider with a ridiculous name.

    >sigh<

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    Well, dear old Gramps was fond of saying: "If you ever start to understand insanity, ...worry." Lol.

    He was also fond of saying: "Attempts to improve on perfection, often result in less perfection..."

    Whether by design, or accident, RIM got 9900 pretty darned perfect. It had slight imperfections but who, in 2012, was "pleading, begging and threatening" to get rid of that 'awful' toolbelt thing??? Who was clamoring for a 1:1 AR?? Who was screaming to be rid of charging contacts? Or the smiling ergonomic keyboard??? Or the convenience key?? Who, in 2014 were clamoring for a TOO large handset? Or for embedded battery lunacy???

    In WHAT way did altering those items improve 99's RAM limitations? Or provide a better camera?? Or... ???

    Time after time they "fix" things we never complained about nor asked for... They "fixed it until they broke it", imo. They "improved on perfection" to the point TOO many of us are TOO happy using our 6 year old "un-improved" 9900s... Go figure. Lol.
    Frehley likes this.
    09-26-17 11:41 AM
  18. DallinCrump's Avatar
    Well I guess I don't have to decide on whether to keep my Classic or not.

    I foolishly decided to install the OTA update to 10.3.3 yesterday. All was well...until I discovered I could receive but not send SMS messages. Fiddling with the APN settings and rebooting the phone didn't help.

    So I decided to try a security wipe and start from scratch.

    Only the phone keeps shutting completely down in the middle of the security wipe process.

    I am now the owner of a bricked Classic, and BlackBerry's own OS update bricked it.

    I think this may very well be the last straw for me and BB10 phones.

    If my carrier supported BIS I'd be looking for a 9900.
    09-26-17 01:09 PM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    Well I guess I don't have to decide on whether to keep my Classic or not.

    I foolishly decided to install the OTA update to 10.3.3 yesterday. All was well...until I discovered I could receive but not send SMS messages. Fiddling with the APN settings and rebooting the phone didn't help.

    So I decided to try a security wipe and start from scratch.

    Only the phone keeps shutting completely down in the middle of the security wipe process.

    I am now the owner of a bricked Classic, and BlackBerry's own OS update bricked it.

    I think this may very well be the last straw for me and BB10 phones.

    If my carrier supported BIS I'd be looking for a 9900.
    Total bummer. Can't claim enough troubles with my Classic to offer a solution. Didn't experience any of slightest troubles activating my new Classic after battery died in old one... Once again, tho, failure of its embedded battery meant I couldn't do a security wipe before sending it to strangers for a fresh battery. Old one is still waiting for me to install new batt.

    Obviously, suggesting a battery pull isn't much help. Lol. Have you tried Classic or BB10 forums?
    09-26-17 01:22 PM
  20. DallinCrump's Avatar
    Total bummer. Can't claim enough troubles with my Classic to offer a solution. Didn't experience any of slightest troubles activating my new Classic after battery died in old one... Once again, tho, failure of its embedded battery meant I couldn't do a security wipe before sending it to strangers for a fresh battery. Old one is still waiting for me to install new batt.

    Obviously, suggesting a battery pull isn't much help. Lol. Have you tried Classic or BB10 forums?
    I honestly don't have the time or patience to go through the hassle. I just want a phone that works well out-of-the box and does what it was designed to do without having to fiddle with autoloaders, patched APKs, and such.

    If that phone has a physical keyboard, all the better, but at this point, I'll settle for a phone that boots up.

    For now I'm using my wife's old iPhone 5S (still a solid phone in its own right), but that's a temporary stopgap until I can get another working device in my hands.
    09-26-17 01:31 PM
  21. Leyra B10's Avatar
    Some older samsung models with a bold like design are not bad.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-17 08:06 PM
  22. anon(9721108)'s Avatar
    Some older samsung models with a bold like design are not bad.

    Posted via CB10
    I remember liking and almost buying one like this, in fact it might have been the same model....

    https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Sa...GH-A187_id4811
    09-27-17 03:35 AM
  23. Leyra B10's Avatar
    I remember liking and almost buying one like this, in fact it might have been the same model....

    https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Sa...GH-A187_id4811
    A friend of mine ordered one recently not that one. It was a bit newer and boxier. Still compact light and sturdy though. " http://merelinc.com/art-and-design/qwerty-android-phones-amazing-buttons" Some more full keyboards.


    Posted via CB10
    09-27-17 06:13 AM
  24. ColinsCity's Avatar
    Has anyone in europe noticed when searching in google without wifi it's changed from google.nl to google.fr does anyone know if the european BIS server has changed country?

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    09-27-17 06:52 AM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    Some older samsung models with a bold like design are not bad.

    Posted via CB10
    How well do they implement trackpad?
    09-27-17 07:54 AM
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