03-24-12 02:22 AM
38 12
tools
  1. mikelcal's Avatar
    Can someone please help me understand why developers are refusing to build apps for the playbook? I'm not a developer (yet) but it seems like iOS and android are more dissimilar than one would think given that iOS apps are mostly written in objective C, and android apps are coded in some type of java.

    It seems almost like most android apps made in java could be ported to BB 7.1 now instead of iOS.

    And with much more reason to the PB since it has the android runtime. I know Alec is working tirelessly to get developers on board, but at times it's frustrating that we're being left out in the cold and now that omgpop has been bought out, it seems much less likely that we will get the draw something app. At least not soon enough before the fad is gone. I could care less for it, but we need more developers like Neil Burlock to make great apps for PB.

    What is a normal turnaround for an average app?
    03-22-12 02:26 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    hard to define an "average app"

    but the reason developers are not jumping on to the RIM wagon is return of investment, in most cases the time to develop for multiple platforms, and maintain support for multiple platforms makes developers not want to bother with RIM who at 3rd place in the market share game are not giving the best odds of getting return.

    Plus you have fanboy's of platforms, I know a few Apple developers who wont develop for anything except for Apple, They would like nothing more than to see RIM and Android fold up, and would not do anything to help them sell a single devic
    app_Developer likes this.
    03-22-12 08:01 AM
  3. dandbj13's Avatar
    Funny, before OS2 was introduced, RIM was promising the release of thousands of apps, as if they were just waiting in the wings. Were they not telling the truth about those apps, did developers just change their minds, or did RIM just think all they had to do was offer free PBs to devs? Hmmm...
    yanicmb likes this.
    03-22-12 09:08 AM
  4. aikmanr's Avatar
    There are two reasons why more developers aren't coming over to BB:

    1) BB10 devices aren't out yet. Developing solely for tablets is not common for developers.
    2) The uncertainty surrounding RIM as a company.

    If RIM can successfully launch BB10 and gain back some traction, developers will start coming over to the platform at a much greater pace due to two reasons:

    1) It is very easy to develop for the QNX platform
    2) BB users are very willing to BUY apps compared to other platforms which have a high piracy rate.
    llllBULLSEYE likes this.
    03-22-12 10:33 AM
  5. mikelcal's Avatar
    That is some great insight. I guess when I think of "average app" I think of an app you give an input to and it does something with it, like fetch a list of results, or tabulate or something of the sort. It seems like for the few developers who have genuinely put some thought into their apps are doing quite well.
    03-22-12 11:54 AM
  6. SDM7171's Avatar
    Can someone please help me understand why developers are refusing to build apps for the playbook? I'm not a developer (yet)
    ...Why not?
    03-22-12 04:04 PM
  7. kittencounter's Avatar
    Just lack of interest
    03-22-12 04:25 PM
  8. VerryBestr's Avatar
    Funny, before OS2 was introduced, RIM was promising the release of thousands of apps, as if they were just waiting in the wings. Were they not telling the truth about those apps, did developers just change their minds, or did RIM just think all they had to do was offer free PBs to devs? Hmmm...
    Yes, that is what RIM said:

    | RIM Playbook gains thousands of new apps after update - thestar.com
    "At the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona on Tuesday, the BlackBerry team announced that thousands of new apps became available after last week’s Playbook update, and more are on the way ..."

    Are you asserting that those (mostly) Android apps did not show up in App World? If that is not what you are saying, what is funny?
    03-22-12 06:04 PM
  9. christenmartin's Avatar
    I have had my phone for a little over a year and app world from then to now is like night and day. My question is at what point does the "no app" argument become mute point? Is it a certain amount of apps or specific apps? I have seen this point made with window phones too, but not a specific goal that would remedy the issue. I see the same thing with the playbook, app world growing at a good clip. I'm not a big app guy, i usually find what i need, so this is not an issue with me.
    03-22-12 07:00 PM
  10. llllBULLSEYE's Avatar
    There are two reasons why more developers aren't coming over to BB:

    1) BB10 devices aren't out yet. Developing solely for tablets is not common for developers.
    This is the Main Reason.
    I mean think about it if you were a developer
    would you want to build an app for the Playbook first with a little over 1 million
    clients or for Apple/IOS with over 100 million clients.
    They usually go for the 100 million then if successful and time allows they go for the smaller guys Playbook and WP7.
    Now once BB10 phones are out its gonna be a whole different story
    as they only have to build one App which will work on both Playbook and BB10 phones
    who will have millions of clients.
    03-22-12 07:22 PM
  11. peter9477's Avatar
    Developers are often tied to particular development environments. They get comfortable with a particular language, set of tools, platform, etc, and it's often a bit hard to change. Some people struggle for years to get really capable in a given environment, and they may just stick with that environment out of inertia (or is it momentum?) for many years after it's no longer even in vogue.

    In the case of the PlayBook, RIM started off supporting only the environment that was easiest to support because of extensive work by QNX even before RIM bought the company -- Adobe AIR. Unfortunately for users, AIR wasn't that widely known, and although it builds directly on Flash and there are many Flash developers, it was certainly not one of the most widely used environments for mobile development. And only a handful of existing BlackBerry developers were even distantly familiar with it. So you got a bunch of Flash web developers who hardly knew the first thing about mobile, and a bunch of experienced mobile people new to AIR, and a bunch of people who'd never touched either before November 2010...

    RIM fairly quickly got WebWorks running on top of AIR, which allowed them to get more of the old BB crowd on board, but in the early days it was missing many crucial APIs, and even now has some gaps. Also this brought in more web devs, who knew even less about building programs than the Flash guys...

    The Java crowd got jerked around a bunch, first by RIM's initial claim of having a "BBOS player", which they announced too soon and had to abandon after actually trying it, and then by the Android player being tied to 2.0 and 2.0 taking so long to come out. The Android support is also lacking various key forms of integration with the hardware, and RIM's even made it fairly clear it's not intended as a primary environment for PlayBook development but, rather, more of a way to get the "numbers"... i.e. app quantity more than quality.

    The Native SDK is supposed to be the flagship environment (longer term) and along with WebWorks one of only two "primary" environments for this platform. Unfortunately even now it is still not usable for real development except in the gaming area (where it's quite good), and without Cascades it is still basically lacking any proper UI framework that would let it be used for most "real" apps aside from games.

    So much for the tools we have to work with...

    Depending on the developer, "turnaround" for a decent app can range anywhere from a couple of weeks to upwards of a year. These days, most experienced developers or companies would probably take about 2-3 months for a first release version of a non-trivial app, since they'd probably be more interested in getting it out there and building up some brand recognition early than they would be in polishing it for a year and possibly having someone else beat them to it.

    On the other hand, as I think someone said earlier, the PlayBook's not necessarily very interesting as a market yet since the numbers are so low compared to phones. On the third hand, tablets are a different beast, and there's some evidence tablet users may buy more than phone users, and be willing to pay higher prices. It's too new to draw any final conclusions yet, but it's safe to say that PlayBook sales are making few people any significant money yet.

    Taking the above bit of history and ideas, I don't think you should expect to see the first really top-notch sophisticated apps along the lines of some of the more compelling iPad apps until the fall at the earliest, and even that's assuming they manage to get Cascades into usable form by about May (when I expect we'll finally see an open beta release). More likely you should plan on being patient until right around the BB10 phone release date, which I just realized few have even bothered speculating about lately, since it's so far off still.
    03-22-12 07:47 PM
  12. yllus's Avatar
    Mostly there isn't a market for it. There are about 27,000 downloads of Lemma to date, the #1 free Twitter app in BlackBerry App World. That's with a total PlayBook user base of, optimistically, 1.5 million. If you plan to spend 2 to 3 months to make a top-flight app, those are not encouraging numbers.
    03-22-12 07:50 PM
  13. Tomcat_Alley's Avatar
    Plus you have fanboy's of platforms, I know a few Apple developers who wont develop for anything except for Apple, They would like nothing more than to see RIM and Android fold up, and would not do anything to help them sell a single devic
    I hate people like that. on par with religious fanatics. Everyone should be exactly the same and everything should be exactly the same and there is only one way to do anything its the way i do things. They should be shunned by civilized society, variation and choice is what makes things great!
    03-22-12 07:58 PM
  14. grover5's Avatar
    I don't think apple or android had this many apps available for their platforms in the first 11 months.
    03-22-12 08:21 PM
  15. hightower23's Avatar
    Funny because if I was a developer playbook would a gold mine, with the lack of decent apps people will basically buy any app on here that was really good and with 500,000 sold Q1 you sell an app q really good app at 0.99 that's a good chunk of change
    smartie88 likes this.
    03-23-12 03:02 AM
  16. masqueofhastur's Avatar
    Mostly there isn't a market for it. There are about 27,000 downloads of Lemma to date, the #1 free Twitter app in BlackBerry App World. That's with a total PlayBook user base of, optimistically, 1.5 million. If you plan to spend 2 to 3 months to make a top-flight app, those are not encouraging numbers.
    If you're the dev, can I make a request for threaded DMs?
    03-23-12 04:40 AM
  17. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Funny because if I was a developer playbook would a gold mine, with the lack of decent apps people will basically buy any app on here that was really good and with 500,000 sold Q1 you sell an app q really good app at 0.99 that's a good chunk of change
    Do me a favour and read peter9477's post earlier in this thread:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/playboo...6/#post7259746

    I don't know what you to consider to be"a good chunk of change" but given that most apps don't have universal appeal, it is unrealistic to assume that every single PB owner will buy a given app. The best that the average developer can hope for is to attract the attention of a small percentage of PB users. Sales on PB have improved remarkably over the last few months but I don't think that anyone is getting rich yet.
    03-23-12 07:10 AM
  18. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    Do me a favour and read peter9477's post earlier in this thread:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/playboo...6/#post7259746

    I don't know what you to consider to be"a good chunk of change" but given that most apps don't have universal appeal, it is unrealistic to assume that every single PB owner will buy a given app. The best that the average developer can hope for is to attract the attention of a small percentage of PB users. Sales on PB have improved remarkably over the last few months but I don't think that anyone is getting rich yet.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. I enjoy your app, but it has a ways to go to get to googlesky status. Personally, I believe it will. But if you are making quality apps and games you are definitely making money on appworld. Not getting rich maybe, but , its an app ecosystem in its infant stage. I mean, do you check appworld on a daily basis? It seems like every week it takes another leap forward. As far as gaming, I think appworld is blowin up One word for apps, cascades The future is bright for qnx/bb10
    03-23-12 08:40 AM
  19. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. I enjoy your app, but it has a ways to go to get to googlesky status. Personally, I believe it will. But if you are making quality apps and games you are definitely making money on appworld. Not getting rich maybe, but , its an app ecosystem in its infant stage. I mean, do you check appworld on a daily basis? It seems like every week it takes another leap forward. As far as gaming, I think appworld is blowin up One word for apps, cascades The future is bright for qnx/bb10
    I don't think that we disagree on much. I too am quite hopeful for the future of BB10. Of course, I look at app world every day and things are improving. For the last two months my app has been doing quite well as it continues to lie in the top ten paid apps (not including games) in app world.

    You compared my app with Google's offering, which is fair enough. But therein lies the problem. It has a way to go before my app will be as good as Sky Map but people are bound to base their buying decisions on a comparison. But look at what I am up against. Google is a major player and has had a few years' head start. Google gives away its app for free in the Android Market. I have to live with the fact that PB's ecosystem (and development tools) are "in the infant stage". And I have to charge for my app in order to make a living.

    I have been fortunate and I am not complaining. But in an attempt to respond to the OP's question, one has to take into account all of the factors that peter9477 stated. That question was: What is the holdup with apps? Part of the reason is that developers lack a financial incentive to join the hunt.

    This is a fact: app developers on this platform are not yet getting rich (enough). It is far form a viable money-making machine for the vast majority of developers. If more developers do not come on board, the number of quality apps will continue to lag. That's the bottom line.
    peter9477 and SlcCorrado like this.
    03-23-12 09:11 AM
  20. slashd0t's Avatar
    Funny because if I was a developer playbook would a gold mine, with the lack of decent apps people will basically buy any app on here that was really good and with 500,000 sold Q1 you sell an app q really good app at 0.99 that's a good chunk of change

    I totally agree!! If you write a somewhat decent app on PB it will be successful on iOS, you'll be lucky if someone even finds it amoung the hundreds of thousands of apps.

    If I was a dev right now I would be writing apps for Windows Phone and BB.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    03-23-12 09:17 AM
  21. ALToronto's Avatar
    I find there is a virtual diarrhea of crappy apps on App World. I just can't find anything I would want to use.
    03-23-12 09:18 AM
  22. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    I went back and read peter9477's post, very informative. I really appreciate all the devs that post in these forums. You made some great points yourself, and like you said, its inevitable that users will judge your app against apps like google's. But for the amount of time involved, I feel that "what's up" is pretty darn comprehensive I'm definitely excited to see how it progresses. Glad to hear you are still in the top 10! Good luck
    BuzzStarField likes this.
    03-23-12 09:22 AM
  23. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    I find there is a virtual diarrhea of crappy apps on App World. I just can't find anything I would want to use.
    Hey, thanks for that valuable input
    BuzzStarField likes this.
    03-23-12 09:25 AM
  24. OttawaGabe's Avatar
    App world is a mess, and a big chunk of GPS apps are even borderline fraudulent. Android apps were being repackaged without the knowledge or consent of their authors, eg Dolphin browser.

    Having some standards for descriptions, screen shots and reviews would be a huge improvement. It really reminds me more of a flea market.
    03-23-12 01:04 PM
  25. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    App world is a mess, and a big chunk of GPS apps are even borderline fraudulent. Android apps were being repackaged without the knowledge or consent of their authors, eg Dolphin browser.

    Having some standards for descriptions, screen shots and reviews would be a huge improvement. It really reminds me more of a flea market.
    These this may be true. But how do you respond to the OP's question? Why are there not more apps in App World? All of the things you mention point to incompetent and dishonest developers. Except your reference to reviews which points to consumer incompetence since buyers write them. If you were in charge of RIM's policies, what steps would you take to fix the problems?
    03-23-12 01:51 PM
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