04-08-12 08:13 PM
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  1. Jon_BB's Avatar
    Hi there!

    First off, I want to say that this post is not a troll of any sort.

    However, I do want to articulate my disappointment at he state of apps on the Playbook. I bought a 64GB wifi model last week for a reasonable price and I like the hardware and the PB OS2.0, despite the many annoying bugs it has.

    But what is killing any enthusiasm for the device I have is the state of the AppWorld store. I checked out some of the free apps in order to get a feel for the general quality of the offerings there. Pretty well all of them have some issue or another (crashes, broken or missing functionality, or otherwise just plain crap) and this does not give me confidence to start paying for apps.

    The pay apps are stupidly priced as well. On the Apple IOS app store they are much more reasonably priced, and better quality too (on the whole). I cannot understand why RIM would not exercise some quality control on AppWorld - it is a no-brainer that the device is only part of the experience; if the app ecosystem is shoddy it will taint both RIM and the PlayBook. I mean, who will buy them, even at the keen price they are on offer for today, if the Apps are rubbish and expensive, and the built in apps have so many deficiencies? They seem to have gone for quantity over quality, and this will not do them any good in the long run (as we can see, with their wel documented ever decreasing market share).

    Then there are the Android ported apps, which don't have a consistent look and feel, and often don't work properly because (I suspect) the Android app player hidden behind the scenes is not a perfect emulation.

    I have looked and looked for two apps in particular: A file explorer with built in FTP and network file connectivity, and a video player capable of dealing with MPEG-2 transport streams (.ts files) that the Humax Freeview PVR generates (in the UK, the digital TV transmissions are all TS). It is a pity the inbuilt player doesn't support this format.

    I did find a lovely app called Open Explorer which seems to offer the file functionality but it is so full of bugs I have not yet been able to copy a single file - either that, or the PlayBook's permissions are all setup wrong (maybe I need to be root - come on DingleBerry 4.0!). To be fair to the developer, he does say it's a beta, but even so it ought to be able to handle the basics.

    That said, there is no video player that does what I want (I have sideloaded MVideoPlaer but have yet to get a .ts file onto the PB to try it out).

    Speaking of sideloading Android apps, that, too is fraught with frustration. It's easy enough to do using the instructions here, (providing you can find a working download link!) but again, the variable quality of the apps is a big problem, and many of them will just crash or not work properly. I suspect it is the Android Player in OS 2.0 that is the underlying cause in most cases - they can't all be crap.

    Two other points about the PB that bug me. One is that all web traffic has to go through RIM's servers (correct me if I'm wrong, please!). Why do they do this? I ought to be able to access a web site without the extra delay involved with going through a commercial proxy, and what are they doing with the records of the sites I visit? The privacy aspect concerns me greatly.

    The other point pertains to the locked down boot loader. I had hoped that I could hack an Android implementation onto it, if I found OS 2.0 to be not up to scratch. But RIM have buggered that too, by trying to ape Apple and locking it down.

    Meanwhile, I read lots of stuff on this forum from PB users who seem to be having a great time (these are the guys that jump down the throats of anyone that complains) and I wonder if I am missing something. Any of you enthusiasts that care to advise me are welcome to do so on this thread. I'm up for a grown up conversation on the subject, but not inviting a flame war.

    Regards

    JonB
    Last edited by Jon_BB; 04-06-12 at 06:44 AM.
    wagnerlucena likes this.
    04-06-12 06:37 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    Good luck and take care.
    vitalyx, bitek and wout000 like this.
    04-06-12 06:59 AM
  3. homer1475's Avatar

    Two other points about the PB that bug me. One is that all web traffic has to go through RIM's servers (correct me if I'm wrong, please!). Why do they do this? I ought to be able to access a web site without the extra delay involved with going through a commercial proxy, and what are they doing with the records of the sites I visit? The privacy aspect concerns me greatly.

    The other point pertains to the locked down boot loader. I had hoped that I could hack an Android implementation onto it, if I found OS 2.0 to be not up to scratch. But RIM have buggered that too, by trying to ape Apple and locking it down.

    First point first.

    Your wifi only tablet does nothing with RIM's NOC. It handles traffic no different then your laptop/desktop, with the exception of email(it was stated it uses the NOC through active sync, not sure how that actually works), but normal everyday traffic just uses the wifi protocol your on, again nothing to do with RIM's NOC, that is reserved for their handheld browsers.

    Second point.

    With a company such as RIM who's main goal/concern is security, why on earth would they allow you to hack up your PB with an unlocked bootloader? An unlocked bootloader simply allows for piracy of apps(see jailbroken iphone), compromised security, and we would see a flood of "my PB has a virus" and "Rim's security is crap" threads as well as people blogging about it.

    The general blogging sphere is ready to pounce on anything negative about RIM and this would just add fuel to the fire. Everyone loves to beat you when your down kind of thing.

    I wont touch the rant about apps. Enough has been said about it already. As far as I'm concerned(not brainwashed into thinking "I need an app for that"), and for my use, there are plenty of quality apps for my needs.
    Last edited by homer1475; 04-06-12 at 07:20 AM.
    04-06-12 07:17 AM
  4. pacoman03's Avatar
    Maybe you should have done a little research before you purchased your PB. If you had, you would have known that the PB is lacking in apps compared to iOS or android. Nevertheless, you got a 64 gig model for $299 delivered with no sales tax (if you paid more, then see my comment about research above). This same model originally sold for $700. At that price, however, the PB was overpriced. As a result, the PB didn't sell very well, and low sales meant that there was little interest amongst app developers to create apps for the PB, which further exasperated the PB sales problem. To try to rectify this situation, RIM drastically cut their prices to increase sales, and hopefully, to increase developer interest. My point is this, had the PB had the quantity and quality of apps that iOS and android had, RIM would never have reduced prices to the extent that they did, and you never would have gotten your PB for the price that you did. You want the best of both worlds, low price and a million apps. Unfortuately, the real world doesn't usually work that way. Consider this, how much more would you have been willing to pay for your PB in order to have access to the apps you're looking for?
    As to your comment about the browser being directed through RIM's servers, I've never heard that. From the reviews I've seen. supposedly the PB browser loads webpages as fast or faster than almost any other tablet browser out there.
    04-06-12 07:25 AM
  5. robtanz's Avatar
    I love postd that start off with "I'm not a troll". I'm not a troll but I am going to troll...

    Sent from my PlayBook.
    04-06-12 07:35 AM
  6. grover5's Avatar
    The browser is fast on mine. It doesn't go through RIMs servers. The OS is not buggy on mine. I've actually bought several really good apps but iOS has about a 5 year head start so don't expect equality there anytime soon. Finally, your post is way too long.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-06-12 07:39 AM
  7. Darrweng's Avatar
    Job_BB;
    I can see why you are frustrated. The ecosystem is not comparable to ios and android. "The apps are stupidly priced" and everything is not enough for you. the PB does not live up to your expectations. I feel you brother. it is a pity if you would still continue to own your PB. I want to help you get rid of those frustrations. Sell it to me. I'm from Toronto. I would like to help you get rid of your misery. The PB seems worthless to you. I want to help you. Just sell it to me with a reasonable price and i'll take you out of your misery. I know you are not trolling. I want to help you.
    PM me with the price.
    04-06-12 07:47 AM
  8. Yemson's Avatar
    "First off, I want to say that this post is not a troll of any sort"

    And yet you had to make the iOS comparison. Pretty bad attempt to justify your trolling.
    EpicSoftworks likes this.
    04-06-12 08:22 AM
  9. bobauckland's Avatar
    Maybe you should have done a little research before you purchased your PB. If you had, you would have known that the PB is lacking in apps compared to iOS or android. Nevertheless, you got a 64 gig model for $299 delivered with no sales tax (if you paid more, then see my comment about research above). This same model originally sold for $700. At that price, however, the PB was overpriced. As a result, the PB didn't sell very well, and low sales meant that there was little interest amongst app developers to create apps for the PB, which further exasperated the PB sales problem. To try to rectify this situation, RIM drastically cut their prices to increase sales, and hopefully, to increase developer interest. My point is this, had the PB had the quantity and quality of apps that iOS and android had, RIM would never have reduced prices to the extent that they did, and you never would have gotten your PB for the price that you did. You want the best of both worlds, low price and a million apps. Unfortuately, the real world doesn't usually work that way. Consider this, how much more would you have been willing to pay for your PB in order to have access to the apps you're looking for?
    As to your comment about the browser being directed through RIM's servers, I've never heard that. From the reviews I've seen. supposedly the PB browser loads webpages as fast or faster than almost any other tablet browser out there.
    This is so silly.
    PlayBook doesn't do what you want? Its your fault. You didn't research it. Its not RIMs fault at all.
    Android tablets run pretty cheap, and have access to all those apps.
    When the next PlayBook, or the BB10 phone, arrives, it will be priced dearly, not at rock bottom prices.
    Theres no evidence the apps available will be any different to what they are now.
    OP has a point then, to an extent. And its a valid concern.
    Tvistedhead likes this.
    04-06-12 08:35 AM
  10. jtokarchuk's Avatar
    Please show tangible proof of a proxy or link to a reputable article before making such claims, please.
    04-06-12 08:52 AM
  11. pacoman03's Avatar
    This is so silly.
    PlayBook doesn't do what you want? Its your fault. You didn't research it. Its not RIMs fault at all.
    Android tablets run pretty cheap, and have access to all those apps.
    When the next PlayBook, or the BB10 phone, arrives, it will be priced dearly, not at rock bottom prices.
    Theres no evidence the apps available will be any different to what they are now.
    OP has a point then, to an extent. And its a valid concern.
    Yeah, if you didn't research it, it is your fault. Buy a Kindle Fire and then complain that it doesn't have a camera, or only 8 GB of internal storage, or no HDMI out. It's Amazon's fault, not yours. Amazon kept the price of the Fire down by not including these features, but there are always those who will think they should have offered these features at the same price. As to cheap android tablets, what android tablet is as cheap as the PB that has equal or better hardware than the PB. None that I know of. If you want an ipad, buy (pay for) an ipad. If you want to save a considerable amount of money, and want good hardware that will do most, but not all of what you want it to, then consider a playbook. But don't then complain afterwards that it's not an ipad.
    JELLOMAN99 likes this.
    04-06-12 08:58 AM
  12. Innovatology's Avatar
    Consider e-mailing the developer if you find bugs, especially for beta apps. Many are eager to improve their work.
    Canuck671 likes this.
    04-06-12 09:23 AM
  13. darrensix's Avatar
    The people who reply to posts like this one are not PlayBook fans, they are PlayBook apologists. It's so sad. The PB is fine when it works and it's cheap. You would feel pretty sick if you'd paid the original price. I paid 169 (UK ,16GB). Well worth it. But, one has to admit, there are so many problems: browser crashes, probs with Flash, apps, dropping wireless etc etc etc.
    04-06-12 10:02 AM
  14. BearSnout's Avatar
    The people who reply to posts like this one are not PlayBook fans, they are PlayBook apologists. It's so sad. The PB is fine when it works and it's cheap. You would feel pretty sick if you'd paid the original price. I paid 169 (UK ,16GB). Well worth it. But, one has to admit, there are so many problems: browser crashes, probs with Flash, apps, dropping wireless etc etc etc.
    How come I don't get any of the problems you have stated?

    I'm not an apologist for stating the above. It's easy to blame the product... but if it was 100% the product, 100% of the users would have the same issues... obviously.
    BBplaybookJS likes this.
    04-06-12 10:19 AM
  15. lewis71980's Avatar
    Yep we definately need to do something like crowdsource the app reviews. Or have something similar to the way that filehippo / alternative.to works. With one of those food label circle things to do with app security saying clearly what data is transmitted / stored by other company.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    mperry772 likes this.
    04-06-12 10:28 AM
  16. shemaree09's Avatar
    I agree with some of your points.

    I've owned my Playbook for a little over a month and the novelty has worn off.

    Lack of native apps, and sideloading is becoming annoying to the point I only use my Playbook to surf the web and bridge to my phone.

    Like I said before, Im not too disappointed because I only paid $199, so whatever.
    04-06-12 10:40 AM
  17. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    The people who reply to posts like this one are not PlayBook fans, they are PlayBook apologists. It's so sad. The PB is fine when it works and it's cheap. You would feel pretty sick if you'd paid the original price. I paid 169 (UK ,16GB). Well worth it. But, one has to admit, there are so many problems: browser crashes, probs with Flash, apps, dropping wireless etc etc etc.
    Problems with Flash apps? This sounds serious. I am neither a PlayBook fan per se, nor am I an apologist - I am an App World vendor. Since the topic is "Very disappointed with App World" please tell why you are disappointed with AIR apps in general and my app in particular.

    In addition I would appreciate it if you could comment on the OP's assertion that "The pay apps are stupidly priced as well.". My app is in the lowest price range. Do you think I need to raise my price to make it more in line with what I think it's actually worth? Or should, I stick with a price that encourages people to buy it.

    You see, here is my problem: App World has an unfairly negative reputation because it is plagued by bad press, malicious rumours and non-specific trash-talk by people with an obvious agenda (like the OP). This is a fact of life for App World vendors and we need a little bit of understanding.

    My view is somewhat different from the OP's and I feel perfectly justified in trying to debunk some of his outrageous claims. I see a market that is growing by leaps and bounds. People have started to buy my app in significant numbers and I see good things ahead. Yes, there are all sorts of things that need to happen before it is as "perfect" as iTunes. But I don't for the life of me understand why threads like this one are even remotely helpful. If you could shed some light on this, I would be very grateful.
    04-06-12 10:48 AM
  18. jtokarchuk's Avatar
    I have owned the playbook for approximately three months, and I love it.

    1. The ability to get mobile internet on demand without paying extra is excellent.

    2. The developer community is just that -- a community. Its not cutthroat.

    3. We actually have quite a few apps in the app store, aside from sideloading kindle I have not found myself not being able to do something I want to.

    4. The fact that it is open to sideloading in the first place.

    5. I have enough games to keep me happy and enjoying my playbook.

    6. I find the powerfulness of of the webbrowser excellent, many of my corporate web apps just work.

    If you have buyers remorse that bad, regift it and get an ipad. It's not for everyone, and its certainly not going to be made better by temper tantrums. We need more developers, and more activists lobbying popular platforms.

    The playbook is very much in its infancy, give it a chance.
    04-06-12 10:50 AM
  19. shemaree09's Avatar
    My disappointment is the Android App player and App World.

    The whole premise of the Android player in 2.0 was to be able to download ported Android apps from App World, but where are they?? I thought all or most Android apps would be available.

    I thought developers would easily port their apps and there would be plenty to choose from.

    But thats not the case. In all honesty, its disappointing.

    I still like my Playbook and use it daily. But App World is indeed disappointing when it comes to the Playbook.
    Last edited by shemaree09; 04-06-12 at 10:59 AM.
    04-06-12 10:54 AM
  20. EdY's Avatar
    I say this person didn't do their research and bought the wrong device for their needs. I have more apps than I know what to do with, lots of awesome games, podcast and news, and the browser is fast. I can fileshare to the web, over Wifi to my home computer, do remote desktop with logmein, hook up easily to HDMI large screen, and presentations. I can play all standard media formats and RIM does NOT handle the traffic, I don't know how they got this idea.

    So "troll" or no "troll", if you are disappointed, give your device back and get an iPad or Android. But don't bash RIM just because their tablet is not made for you. There are plenty of other people who are addicted to their Playbooks and have found it exceptional for what they need (like myself).

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Crackberry Tapatalk Forum app
    Alexutz and taylor96 like this.
    04-06-12 10:56 AM
  21. Morten's Avatar
    First point first.

    Your wifi only tablet does nothing with RIM's NOC.
    Are you 100% sure?

    BlackBerry News seems to rely on RIM servers to pull feeds,...

    and the "native" e-mail has some odd behaviour... Even if an e-mail is available on the e-mail server (gmail, hotmail or whatever..) it can take several minutes before the PB is capable of retrieving the e-mail when manually forced to refresh...

    Perhaps the "new" features are not so disconnected as we would like them to be...
    04-06-12 11:09 AM
  22. Morten's Avatar
    But what is killing any enthusiasm for the device I have is the state of the AppWorld store. I checked out some of the free apps in order to get a feel for the general quality of the offerings there. Pretty well all of them have some issue or another (crashes, broken or missing functionality, or otherwise just plain crap) and this does not give me confidence to start paying for apps.

    - and in AppWorld clicking on "top rated" apps - what you find is apps rated for years for their phone versions,... which are completely different from Playbook versions...

    Since there are so few try-before-buy apps available, at least we should be able to get some real ratings and reviews - and not only info based on the phone version...

    anyway - if you do purchase an app and are not happy with it, send email to appworldbilling@rim.com and they would refund you in most situations....
    Jon_BB likes this.
    04-06-12 11:15 AM
  23. jchavealot's Avatar
    Open your pocket book! Pay for some apps! There are plenty. Pay attention to reviews!
    04-06-12 01:27 PM
  24. EricB1968's Avatar
    Someone didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Yo OP, What apps are you looking at and calling them overpriced ?
    04-06-12 01:54 PM
  25. Jon_BB's Avatar
    Amazing. I explain my position, ask for advice, and get a load of "you're a troll" type responses, despite the fact that I explicitly said I am not a troll.

    I'll respond to some of the points I have read.

    1. Web traffic via RIM's servers.
    Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you, I'm glad I was wrong about that one!

    2. AppWorld prices.
    Angry Birds is 5 on App World. On IOS it is 0.69. Yes, 69 pence. Explain that. It's stupid, like I said, and it would not be hard to find other examples.

    3. Android Player.
    Yes, let's face it, it's buggy and prone to crashes. The latest fun and games is having the BBC iPlayer running, crashing, then close the app, try to launch another Android ported app (in this case a Chess program), what happens? I see the locked up iPlayer and cannot launch the chess app. This has never happened to me on any other platform with the possible exception of the 02 Joggler, and that was recoverable without a reboot. This is inexcusable.

    4. Locked down boot loader.
    Fair enough, I take your point about piracy and security. But if RIM wanted to stop piracy, why allow sideloading? And as to security, so what if I jailbreak my PlayBook? It's not going to affect your PB, so why should it be an issue? If I jailbreak my own device, use it as I want to use it because it actually belongs to me, then that is my business, and if some cybercrim manages to slurp all my data, isn't that my fault? You probably won't believe this, but I'm a developer with 20+ years experience in various market sectors, so I do know the risks with jailbreaking.

    5. Buggy apps.
    In the case of Open Explorer, I did contact the developer and he has replied. I hope it will come out of beta soon, because it really is a quality piece, or would be if it would work.

    6. My expectations of such a device.
    I'm not asking much of my PlayBook. I want to get video files directly onto it without transcoding, and be able to watch them. Unfortunately, this isn't possible without a good deal of messing around. The same is true of the iPad, which is why I sent it back. All we need is VLC Player or mPlayer and we will be able to play what we want on it.

    When I bought it I knew full well it isn't an iPad, but I did expect more than I got. Regarding the Amazon tablet, I take your point, it is way too cut back to be of use, but on the other, what is the point of a device that costs not that much more, but still doesn't deliver? It's a bargain you say (true, for the hardware spec), but if the software lets it down, it's a shame.

    7. Post too long.
    Sorry. No one is forcing you to read it. Would you rather I just said "Why is this Playbook crap?" and not explain my viewpoint? That really would be a troll.

    8. Advice.
    Again, I am asking for advice. What file browser has built in ftp and network share access and works for you? Which video player should I try next?

    Instead of accusing me of being a troll, why don't you guys just help me out? You're the experts, and this is supposed to be a community.

    Regards

    JonB
    Last edited by Jon_BB; 04-06-12 at 02:23 PM.
    04-06-12 02:18 PM
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