06-02-12 02:11 AM
35 12
tools
  1. kdna's Avatar
    Who will claim the notariety that will come with the unofficial port of Skype onto the Playbook? Now that Android Camera support is in the dev beta.
    05-31-12 08:21 PM
  2. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    I don't think you understand...
    It's not to say "We have Skype now!", its for the people who already own a PlayBook...
    So that they actually have an app that works when they would like to use Skype.
    It's not for bragging rights, its so that we have something that is usable and working...
    Hope this clarified.
    joski likes this.
    05-31-12 08:34 PM
  3. xsacha's Avatar
    Of course Skype won't work as it uses a native binary for its Silk codec. Voice chat and video calls cannot work because of this.

    It has never been a problem with camera/mic support. Both of which are now supported.
    Last edited by xsacha; 05-31-12 at 09:14 PM.
    05-31-12 09:04 PM
  4. Boa2674's Avatar
    Of course Skype won't work as it uses a native binary for its Silk codec. Voice chat and video calls cannot work because of this.

    It has never been a problem with camera/mic support. Both of which are now supported.
    Do all the android video chats use the Silk codec? If not could vtok work? I havnt seen it mentioned around here thru search I may be wrong.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...JpdXMudnRvayJd
    05-31-12 10:00 PM
  5. canadoc's Avatar
    I can confirm sling player
    Tango
    Skype don't work in new beta
    05-31-12 10:19 PM
  6. xsacha's Avatar
    All good video chat clients would handle it with a native binary.

    You could probably find one that doesn't use a native binary though.
    KermEd, Boa2674 and r0v3rT3N like this.
    05-31-12 10:33 PM
  7. samab's Avatar
    Do all the android video chats use the Silk codec? If not could vtok work? I havnt seen it mentioned around here thru search I may be wrong.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...JpdXMudnRvayJd
    Anytime there is a requirement for a lot of CPU power --- whether they be video encoding (like skype) or video decoding (like netflix and slingplayer) or image manipulation (instagram's digital filters) --- they are all done with native codes.

    Doesn't matter which specific codec the app uses. If the app needs a codec, then it's native codes --- and you won't be able to sideload that android app onto the Playbook.
    Boa2674 likes this.
    05-31-12 10:34 PM
  8. Boa2674's Avatar
    Well crap. Thanks guys guess its all up to rim to give us a native app.
    05-31-12 10:38 PM
  9. diegonei's Avatar
    Well crap. Thanks guys guess its all up to rim to give us a native app.
    Wrong.

    What part of "It's up to Skype" don't you people get?
    05-31-12 10:58 PM
  10. KermEd's Avatar
    Wrong.

    What part of "It's up to Skype" don't you people get?
    Double wrong. Skype is an independant third party developer. It is up to RIM to convince third party developers to use their platform.

    Developers will never build for a platform unless they need to or believe they should. I.E. You build your own phone + OS. It is up to you to sell that OS to third party. RIM needs to cut a few big cheques and get it done. Edit: RIM looks to be unwilling to pay Skype and Netflix the development cost for their platform (angry they have to) plus they know Skype and Netflix will then want yearly sustainment fees. We (customers) aren't generating enough income to RIM to justify it. This will change in all likelihood once RIM is serious about BB10 being released (i.e. Actual firm date with commitment and gold release in sight).

    Ed.
    Last edited by KermEd; 05-31-12 at 11:39 PM.
    Yaceka likes this.
    05-31-12 11:34 PM
  11. diegonei's Avatar
    Double wrong. Skype is an independant third party developer. It is up to RIM to convince third party developers to use their platform.

    Developers will never build for a platform unless they need to or believe they should. I.E. You build your own phone + OS. It is up to you to sell that OS to third party. RIM needs to cut a few big cheques and get it done. Edit: RIM looks to be unwilling to pay Skype and Netflix the development cost for their platform (angry they have to) plus they know Skype and Netflix will then want yearly sustainment fees. We (customers) aren't generating enough income to RIM to justify it. This will change in all likelihood once RIM is serious about BB10 being released (i.e. Actual firm date with commitment and gold release in sight).

    Ed.
    We'll agree to disagree on that one pal.

    I understand Microsoft has been doing that. It does not mean all players have to.

    I for one, would like to have my apps in every single platform possible, to make sure I would not miss any possible client. And after getting all the spam Skype's CEO did, I would most likely get, at the very least, my trainee devs on it.

    But that's just me, eh?
    Philldoe and MasterOfBinary like this.
    05-31-12 11:45 PM
  12. xsacha's Avatar
    KermEd: A little off-topic with Netflix but it is coming to Playbook. This 2.1 beta has seen the inclusion of Microsoft's PlayReady DRM built in to the OS. This is a requirement for NetFlix. The netflix binary is still there too.
    KermEd and SlcCorrado like this.
    05-31-12 11:51 PM
  13. KermEd's Avatar
    I understand Microsoft has been doing that. It does not mean all players have to.
    Trust me, I'm not saying its right or my preference. But capitalism is what it is. Neither Skype or Netflix wants a handful of increased users generating a small fee even if it is profitable long term. They want their payout to immediately offset development costs.

    Yes, its not fair. But RIM has no negotiating power right now with them. It is what it is. If we want Skype and Netflix, they need to do the corporate america thing and pay out.

    It would be nice if the market would change - but that takes a long time and will wait for RIM to gathers its strength. And being rude to other contributers on the forum and being condescending is not going to affect that in the slightest. But yes, I disagree with you based on todays market, RIMs position in the market, and what the client needs.
    05-31-12 11:55 PM
  14. KermEd's Avatar
    KermEd: A little off-topic with Netflix but it is coming to Playbook. This 2.1 beta has seen the inclusion of Microsoft's PlayReady DRM built in to the OS. This is a requirement for NetFlix. The netflix binary is still there too.
    Nice! . I know they have source code p sitting at RIM too that apparently worms. But they never packaged it up. DRM would explain it.
    ptpete likes this.
    05-31-12 11:58 PM
  15. diegonei's Avatar
    Trust me, I'm not saying its right or my preference. But capitalism is what it is. Neither Skype or Netflix wants a handful of increased users generating a small fee even if it is profitable long term. They want their payout to immediately offset development costs.

    Yes, its not fair. But RIM has no negotiating power right now with them. It is what it is. If we want Skype and Netflix, they need to do the corporate america thing and pay out.

    It would be nice if the market would change - but that takes a long time and will wait for RIM to gathers its strength. And being rude to other contributers on the forum and being condescending is not going to affect that in the slightest. But yes, I disagree with you based on todays market, RIMs position in the market, and what the client needs.
    Rude?
    joe_bags likes this.
    06-01-12 12:02 AM
  16. samab's Avatar
    Trust me, I'm not saying its right or my preference. But capitalism is what it is. Neither Skype or Netflix wants a handful of increased users generating a small fee even if it is profitable long term. They want their payout to immediately offset development costs.

    Yes, its not fair. But RIM has no negotiating power right now with them. It is what it is. If we want Skype and Netflix, they need to do the corporate america thing and pay out.

    It would be nice if the market would change - but that takes a long time and will wait for RIM to gathers its strength. And being rude to other contributers on the forum and being condescending is not going to affect that in the slightest. But yes, I disagree with you based on todays market, RIMs position in the market, and what the client needs.
    It has nothing to do with that.

    What we have here is a million different factors that came together.

    You can't make a regular Playbook app (one that requires buttons and dialog boxes) without Cascades --- which is still not available for the Playbook.

    Sure if the Playbook has 5 million users instead of 1 million users, skype engineers may be able to justify to their bosses to make an AIR app right now and then re-do the whole thing in native codes in 6 months. But this isn't the case.

    Nokia is paying Rovio to make angry birds space for windows phones --- yet the Playbook has it already and RIM didn't pay Rovio. The reason --- you don't need Cascades for games.
    06-01-12 12:07 AM
  17. xsacha's Avatar
    It has nothing to do with that.

    What we have here is a million different factors that came together.

    You can't make a regular Playbook app (one that requires buttons and dialog boxes) without Cascades --- which is still not available for the Playbook.

    Sure if the Playbook has 5 million users instead of 1 million users, skype engineers may be able to justify to their bosses to make an AIR app right now and then re-do the whole thing in native codes in 6 months. But this isn't the case.
    Qt has worked on Playbook for over 7 months.
    Qt allows a rich UI with buttons and dialog boxes.
    Qt is easily extended in to a Cascades app (because Cascades uses Qt).

    Skype already uses Qt for Windows, Linux, Mac and Symbian.
    HaTaX, KermEd and SlcCorrado like this.
    06-01-12 12:14 AM
  18. greatwiseone's Avatar
    Thanks for the insight, Dev's. Hopefully RIM can mustard whatever relationship it has with Skype and Microsoft to get it on BB10...
    06-01-12 12:19 AM
  19. samab's Avatar
    Qt has worked on Playbook for over 7 months.
    Qt allows a rich UI with buttons and dialog boxes.
    Qt is easily extended in to a Cascades app (because Cascades uses Qt).

    Skype already uses Qt for Windows, Linux, Mac and Symbian.
    All RIM did was pushed out the qt port source code --- but with zero documentation.
    06-01-12 12:22 AM
  20. xsacha's Avatar
    Qt has very extensive documentation. It works the same as on all other platforms.
    Personally I have ported several Qt apps without changing one line of source code.
    06-01-12 12:26 AM
  21. FSeverino's Avatar
    Here is my take on this... and ive said it before.

    IT IS THE FAULT OF THE DEVELOPER IN ALL CASES!

    sure, RIM can entice a dev to make the app... but if the dev is saying that 'the market isnt big enough' they are devs that you dont want.

    How can you say that the PB market (or BB Market for that matter) is not big enough, or worth while, for your application when you also put it on PS VITA before launch???

    Really? ... ... (netflix)

    How can you say that the PB market isnt worth developing for when it opens up over half a million new customers EASILY to your company? Sure, skype is free... but even if 1/3 of PB users get the free version that would be about 300 000 at the least... if 1% of those people subscribe/pay for the service that is 3 000 paying members. At the cheapest plan (from my 5 second research) that is 3 000 people x $3 A MONTH... that is $9 000 a month from 1% of 1/3 of PB users... are you telling me they cannot turn a profit on 10 grand a month? PLEASE!

    In other words, if there are 1 million PBs (which i think is a low end guess) SKYPE would need to attract 0.3% of users to make around $10 000 A MONTH. Netfilx would make almost the same while attracting 0.1% of the estimated 1 million users.

    So... really, whose fault is it? The numbers are there, they are plain to see. These companies WILL make money.

    Also, what does it say about these companies that they are unwilling to support their paying members? Netflix can 'stream anywhere' ... really? Not on the over 1 million playbooks which im sure include MANY netflix subscribers WITHOUT the ability to 'stream anywhere'

    GREED, it rules the world.
    06-01-12 12:27 AM
  22. KermEd's Avatar
    We have gone a bit off topic. But remember, companies want immediate income to offset immediate costs. And it has to be clearly profitable (i.e. 1.5x input to output generation) within 1 year (acceptable moderate risk).

    Cascades has nothing to do with this, its just a gui solution, its not the only one. QT apps (skype etc) would be easy to port at the GUI level. And really, you can add frameworks yourself if you need to. Its the underlaying structure (network packets, network handling, video compression, decompression, etc) that really kills your devs and testers.

    Angry birds came to the PB because the redevelopment costs were small enough. Its just cost balancing

    There are alternatives, options, etc. But remember, the OS is RIMs. There are thousands of mobile OS's out there. Apps require Time, Money, or Trades. And very few companies will do it for future income "potential". Income potential is small business. Income now, with future income potential is big business.

    The reality is, RIM needs to Prove the market exists, Pay for development time, Build the development time themselves or Enter a contract that is mutually benefitial. In most cases its a combination.

    Its not about how it should be, what is fair, or what the details are. This cqn only be solved with Time or Money...

    But, with that said, it will come. Just not yet. I cant see why someone couldnt draft a simple pc desktop app that is a skype-clone though and push it to PB/iOS/Android/BB. If skypes liability is platforms, just reach more than them and hope they dont catch up.
    06-01-12 01:03 AM
  23. Justthecrack's Avatar
    Thanks for the insight, Dev's. Hopefully RIM can mustard whatever relationship it has with Skype and Microsoft to get it on BB10...
    They must have some relationship with Skype because Skype mobile is available on BB phones already (the non-vid chat version).
    06-01-12 04:15 AM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    Double wrong. Skype is an independant third party developer. It is up to RIM to convince third party developers to use their platform.

    Developers will never build for a platform unless they need to or believe they should. I.E. You build your own phone + OS. It is up to you to sell that OS to third party. RIM needs to cut a few big cheques and get it done. Edit: RIM looks to be unwilling to pay Skype and Netflix the development cost for their platform (angry they have to) plus they know Skype and Netflix will then want yearly sustainment fees. We (customers) aren't generating enough income to RIM to justify it. This will change in all likelihood once RIM is serious about BB10 being released (i.e. Actual firm date with commitment and gold release in sight).

    Ed.

    The head of developer relations offered up a team of people to Netflix to build the app via twitter, and you know that would only be done after they have discussed in private. Netflix is just making yet another poor business decision (turn away free app development to get on more screens). I cancelled my account with them over a month ago now, even though it works on my Apple TV xBox and PS3, and I know others here have too. So they are already losing customers because of their lack of support for Playbook. Heck they could even charge money for the initial sale of the app too and make even more because Playbook users have already shown we are willing to pay for stuff that other platforms have for free. Nope this is all on Netflix.

    As for skype, it has been rumored that skype support will be included as part of the the Native video client in BB10, so a separate app wouldn't be needed. Based on the fact that Alec Saunders isn't saying anything about skype publicly like they are with Netflix hints that this rumor has legs. Alec also replied to a tweet of mine saying a lot of major devs are waiting for Cascades to be done and implemented before they will release their apps.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Crackberry App!
    06-01-12 07:31 AM
  25. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    With all those wonderful insights, I keep thinking that if it is not RIM's fault neither the developer, then there must be another non-obvious strong force... we are missing one probable cause i.e. Skype is still not in PlayBook because some iOS or Android or Windows don't want to... not sure if this is true, but I've read in one underground blog's site that an alternative some sort of energy has been already discovered that can totally replace oil... but some powerful countries, specifically those that control "oil" will not let this thing to happen because they will lose the power to control the world i.e. "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle Is The Hand That Rules The World"... well, it may not true on "oil" but it can be true to other subjects...
    06-01-12 11:04 AM
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