[moss27]

So what? If you want that model, why did you buy a tablet that doesn't operate on that model? RIM is not part of Google's ad service, why would you assume they would adopt it for you to get free apps?

An oil change at the Honda dealer will cost you less than at the BMW dealer. Don't buy the Honda and expect BMW service or vice versa.

Why are you so defensive about a fair question? We aren't comparing a high end car to another car. We are comparing a tablet that is supposed to compete with other tablets, but is lacking in an important area compared to the others. There are a number of reasons for why ad-supported games or trial versions would benefit CUSTOMERS. Why are all biased playbook supporters so against changes that would benefit PlayBook CUSTOMERS without screwing over developers?

We are not asking for every game to be released for free and for devs to not make money for their efforts.

Is it fair that we have to pay $5 just for the opportunity to try Angry Birds on the PlayBook, when the same game can be purchased for less money on comparable tablets, AND has a risk free version that makes it easier for customers to decide on whether the paid version is worth its price?

[TheScionicMan]

Since it obviously won';t do any good, I've deleted my logical reply and will just respond with an WAAAAHHHH!! I'm too poor and shiftless that I can't afford a few bucks for apps Boo Freakin Hoo...

[moss27]

When losing an argument on the internet:

a) Admit you are wrong
b) Respectfully disagree
c) Act like a child, use insults, try to belittle others, accuse person of being poor, and stomp feet on your way out of the thread.

Beautifully done, sir. You make internet trolls proud. Hmm..that gives me an idea..let's see if it works. I'll gladly sell you my PlayBook for $599.99. What, are you too poor to overpay for something BB related? Come on.

[TheScionicMan]

Actually, you're the one that is off-topic for this thread. I've got two PBs already and can afford to buy an app and still eat dinner. Tablet owners whining is the biggest joke ever...

I can't afford my Top Ramen for a week because I was FORCED to BUY all three Angry Birds games for my Luxury device... Please go cry in the other threads, this is the one where we are making fun of those...

[moss27]

Thanks? I am sorry if this offends you but I will Never blindly support a company and pretend everything it does is the greatest decision in the world, and that it has no faults.

[TheScionicMan]

You probably would if they gave you a bunch of ad-supported apps...

If I said that, please quote it.

[bobauckland]

So sad.
People have a right to complain when the ecosystem they support has the same apps available on other OSes for more money, when the country specific prices are based on units (2 dollars in States, 2 pounds in the UK, not the case with more mature app focused ecosystems) and when the apps are generally of a lower quality than their counterparts on other OSes.
Complaints show companies where to focus their attempts at improving.
If everything was perfect RIM wouldn't be tanking in stock price.
Im getting pretty ticked off with devs on this forum playing the dev card before launching whiny rants, its actually making me not want to support certain PlayBook devs.
You make an app, you submit it, make some money, good for you.
If people have complaints of issues be man enough to deal with it.
If anyone is showing a strange sense of entitlement its some of the PlayBook devs, constantly whinging about bad reviews they got or people querying prices.

[atrclpv]

Whilst I agree with the OP to a degree, I do have some comments. I have no idea what the average salary in the US is but here in the UK, it's about �26,000 a year. The OP is hoping to recoup that figure (I'm using RIM's $1=�1!) for about 4-5 months work. It's just a different prespective on things. I'm fully aware that the OP will have to account for taxes, holiday pay etc. I'm not saying the OP is not entitled to earn that sort of income just giving an alternative view.....

[kill_9]

The price for most of the applications available through BlackBerry AppWorld are very reasonable and with sufficient popularity even the CAD0.99 price tag could net the developer a healthy income. It would be informative to learn how the developers of various high-quality applications such as Battery Guru, Book Reader, and Files and Folders, for example, are doing in terms of number of purchases and net total income earned. Hopefully, each is earning enough to justify the time and effort expended in development of those applications and to encourage them to continue updating them and creating new applications too.

[SnoozerBold]

What happened to this thread? It seemed rational and interesting for a few pages. I wonder what happened? What changed? Hmmmm

[BlackBerry Guy]

Wait..why is having a free (ad supported) option a bad thing?

Also...comparing console games to tablet games as a whole is like comparing a skateboard to a car. There is no real comparison..except both of them can get you somewhere.

Never said having ad supported apps is a bad thing. Just pointing out that when people complain about app prices, they should compare apples to apples (no pun intended)...not the price of a non-add supported vs add supported version.

I agree you can't really compare console vs mobile games, but the general line of thought I had was that people freely spend money on pricier things (ie. that daily cup of Starbucks) yet whine about spending the same amount of money or less on an app.

[Chrysalis1156]

Not so sure things are all rosey on other platforms either. I asked my son if he tried Angry Birds Space on his iPad and he mumbled something about no way cuz it was $2.99 to start and then more if you wanted additional content. (Notice he didn't say he downloaded a pirated copy ). I don't think everyone's going to be happy no matter what the choices are. Just life I guess. Bottom line is do your homework, choose the platform that suits your wants and needs, and then buy the apps and games you're willing to pay for. At least that's working for me.

[EdY]

WOW!

Nice to see some healthy discussion going on in this thread. :-)

I just wanted to respond to a few comments made and say that it is good to see everyone's thoughts on the matter. While I respect each person's viewpoints, and people see "fairness" differently, I agree you can never please everyone.

1. App developer salary

I am under no delusion that apps come in all sizes and flavours, some can net a huge profit (like Angry Birds which was a run-away hit) and some apps will just earn enough to get you by. If you are a dev and release some crappy apps that nobody wants to pay for, you will stop and go find a job to work 9-5 at a software company (or maybe you already work 9-5 somewhere and doing your app on the side).

I *do not* have any expectations on income from an app or annual salary a dev should expect. There is a huge difference, and huge time-commitment and talent and experience differences for different software developers. I consider myself a "dev newbie" and so I do it for fun mostly. I already released a free app, but the next one which I spent more time for and I think people will find more useful, I might charge $1.99. But the professionals who studied to get a computer science degree at University and put out amazing apps that keep you entertained or make you more productive, or do something you can't live without, that is worth paying for.


2. Blaming RIM for Developer choices

The developer chooses the model they want (ad or fee-based) for their app. Don't blame RIM for something the app developer decides. RIM has nothing to do with this. If you want to see Angry Birds FREE on the Playbook, call up ROVIO and say "why don't you release a limited trial version for Playbook so I can try your game and then buy it".

I agree maybe the $1 equals 1 pound conversion on app prices may not be ideal, as I assume RIM controls this. However, I assume it has to do with making the prices look easy. For example, why are things $0.99, 1.99 and 2.99 etc. Why not $2.32, 1.82, 0.59 ????

If they had to convert the $1 US to 0.59 pounds (or whatever the conversion is) then it would look maybe funny in UK Blackberry AppWorld as the prices would all be conversions. On the other hand, I *do not* know if devs are actually getting paid more or not. If I set my price to $1 per app, will I get $1? Or if I sell to somebody from UK will I actually make more money? I don't think the devs really intended to charge more, I think it has to do with "easy looking" prices in different markets.


3. Developer entitlement issues

I certainly don't feel that way and hope most devs don't. We are just hard working people and hope that if we release an app that we spent considerable amount of time developing, that there will be a reward for it. Also it is a free economy, with many devs making similar apps. We are each allowed to set our own prices, people can submit reviews. It is really an AMAZING thing we take for granted... It wasn't long ago that people did not share this information so freely and it would be "caveat emptor".

Sometimes we make the wrong choice and charge too much for an app... then nobody buys it. So it is a bit of trial and error. I would look into Appworld and see what similar apps cost, what they do, and what they charge. If you think your app is way better you can charge more, otherwise if you charge the same or cheaper you can maybe compete with the other developer.

Example - one dev makes essentially a "shortcut" app to a popular website, they charge $0.99 for it and they get 1000 people to buy it. It took them 5 minutes to make. Another developer spends months making a game, 100's of hours designing, programming, debugging, and figure they should charge $2.99, but because nobody wants to risk their money on a game they never heard of, it lies in relative obscurity. Eventually, if the reviews are good maybe more people give it a shot... but that $2.99 game takes a while to build up steam. Meanwhile, a game ported over from other platforms (like Angry Birds or whatever) that everyone already knows, easy grabs up the market.




Anyways, nice thread discussion! Keep it going!


This is not about developers vs. users, or even poor vs. rich, or RIM vs. Apple vs. Android, it is about understanding the PERCEIVED versus ACTUAL VALUE we place on our electronic devices and applications, and how people easily dump money on many other things in their life.... Yet when it comes to software it is somehow accepted that you should never buy an app. Try buying an app one day and see how good it feels to know you have spent a few bucks to enjoy something and helped the developer so they can make another awesome app.

[Marty_LK]

Not so sure things are all rosey on other platforms either. I asked my son if he tried Angry Birds Space on his iPad and he mumbled something about no way cuz it was $2.99 to start and then more if you wanted additional content. (Notice he didn't say he downloaded a pirated copy ). I don't think everyone's going to be happy no matter what the choices are. Just life I guess. Bottom line is do your homework, choose the platform that suits your wants and needs, and then buy the apps and games you're willing to pay for. At least that's working for me.

I was surprised how much fewer apps there are for the iPad than the iPhone. I have a number of apps I like on my iPhone that I can't get on the iPad in native form. I can use the iPhone apps on my iPad, but they have to be magnified up to the iPad's screensize and they look horrible; very pixelated.

[eszklar]

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand your side and always have understood the side of a developer, but there is one group of users that pretty much can only benefit from free apps. I'm currently 17, don't have a job (not from lack of trying though) and my parents don't feel like giving out credit card info for a few apps. I usually have to money in cash to pick up a few apps but that doesn't really help does it? If there was a way to buy a card at my local walmart to buy apps then I would.

Do you have a Bank Account? If so, open a PayPal account and link your Bank Account to it and transfer money to PayPal. BB App World handles PayPal purchase when your BB App World account it set up for it. Its how I do it.

[Canuck671]

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand your side and always have understood the side of a developer, but there is one group of users that pretty much can only benefit from free apps. I'm currently 17, don't have a job (not from lack of trying though) and my parents don't feel like giving out credit card info for a few apps. I usually have to money in cash to pick up a few apps but that doesn't really help does it? If there was a way to buy a card at my local walmart to buy apps then I would.

Go to wallmart - buy a prepaid credit card. solved.



if you do buy music, stop for a while, spend that on an app. be happy with what you have.

(stepping off my soapbox)

[BuzzStarField]

I was surprised how much fewer apps there are for the iPad than the iPhone. I have a number of apps I like on my iPhone that I can't get on the iPad in native form. I can use the iPhone apps on my iPad, but they have to be magnified up to the iPad's screensize and they look horrible; very pixelated.

Good point! People who complain about Android "ports" being inferior in some way (and not worth buying) should bear this in mind. All of the Android apps that I have installed from App World look pretty darn good and perform admirably. I am not saying that the player works perfectly (it doesn't) but if you are comparing quality vs. quantity, there is nothing wrong with RIM including them as "real" apps in the app-tonnage numbers.

[NakedPaulToast]

I agree maybe the $1 equals 1 pound conversion on app prices may not be ideal, as I assume RIM controls this. However, I assume it has to do with making the prices look easy. For example, why are things $0.99, 1.99 and 2.99 etc. Why not $2.32, 1.82, 0.59 ????

RIM doesn't include all of it.

Part of the disparity between UK prices and North American prices is that the VAT is included in the UK price. In North American any taxes will be applied after.

For example for me in Ontario, if I buy an App for $0.99 then in actuality the end cost is $1.12.

[Canuck671]

I am still trying to develop apps - they are not easy to make, test and produce a real nicely packaged saleable product. So far I have developed a few small point of sale apps for friends businesses, for free.

I work and make a real nice income, but the time I use to develop is still worth something. In some circles they say your spare time should be valued at at least 2.5 X your salary. Thats how I decide what I do when I have "nothing to do" which is rare..



I usually spend 20$ a month on apps - mostly business, some games.

What I need is for someone to develop an app that links the BB with PB thru an intergrated "daytimer" based organizer, much like the native apps

[VishRS]

A very very genuine thread. I made a paypal account recently. Vowed not to sideload pirated stuff.

[cgk]

The reason that people whine is to do with reference groups - when you buy a cup of coffee (the example people always use when talking about the price of apps), you compare it to the price of other cups of coffee, when you buy a camera you compare it to the price of another camera. When people buy apps, they compare the price to the price of apps in other app ecosystems not to a cup of coffee - it's just how human organise the world in their mind, they don't generally compare across reference groups.

[eds817]

I have no problem paying for apps. I actually think most of the $1.99 & $2.99 apps that I've bought are worth more and I'd pay. I've even donated for free apps.

The one thing I'd like to see is more trials. Developers might even sell more if we were able to try it for a day or two. I know we're not talking about a lot of money but with all the apps out there and more coming everyday it can add up.

[samab]

Complainers are comparing apples to oranges:

They forgot that they are comparing ad-supported apps vs. paid apps.
They forgot that they are comparing SD apps vs. HD apps.
They forgot that they are comparing special time-limited pricing vs. regular everyday pricing.

Complainers all remembered that they paid 99 cents for Dead Space for their iPad --- but what they don't remember is that it was a time-limited special. Right now it costs $9.99 for Dead Space HD for the iPad vs. $3.99 for the Playbook.

[sashlon]

Complainers are comparing apples to oranges:

They forgot that they are comparing ad-supported apps vs. paid apps.
They forgot that they are comparing SD apps vs. HD apps.
They forgot that they are comparing special time-limited pricing vs. regular everyday pricing.

Complainers all remembered that they paid 99 cents for Dead Space for their iPad --- but what they don't remember is that it was a time-limited special. Right now it costs $9.99 for Dead Space HD for the iPad vs. $3.99 for the Playbook.

Isn't Dead Space $7.99? Or am I wrong? I thought the $3.99 was a special time-limited price. Kind of misleading. Yes I can find a couple of examples of apps that are cheaper for us than for other platform, but don't make the mistake of thinking it levels out. There are volumes more that are more expensive for us.

I bought Dead Space at $3.99. I thought $7.99 was a bad joke.

[byul]

Time limited offer is $3.99. And normal $7.99. It's not misleading 50% discount.