05-27-11 07:53 AM
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  1. s219's Avatar
    iPad users do not know how to exploit the full web experience on a mobile device because the full web experience has always been denied to them. The Apple iOS cannot stream flash based sports, etc., so iPad users are wholly unaware of that experience.
    I watched most of the 2011 NCAA Tournament on my iPad 2, long before my PlayBook was delivered. Same goes for last year's MLB season and a ton of football and hockey. iPad/iPhone users have had fantastic streaming sports video for several years now. Not to mention Hulu, Netflix, etc. And it's all hardware decoded/rendered video that is smooth and efficient. I am sure iOS users are missing something by not having Flash, but it's sure not streamed sports, TV, and movies.
    05-25-11 12:42 AM
  2. semicoln's Avatar
    Flash is dead..

    Read this final death blow...

    Apple Goes Nuclear In War Against Adobe Flash | The Daily Feed | Minyanville.com

    "Jonathan Deutsch and Ryan Nielsen have designed and released Hype -- a viable HTML5 alternative to Flash available for the Mac. Like Flash, the program uses keyframes for designers to create animations and transitions for web content. However, Hype uses the WebKit engine which powers Google Chrome and Safari.

    Already, the software is the top grossing app in the Mac App Store since launching last Friday.

    In an interview with The Startup Foundry, Deutsch said he teamed up with Nielsen to create a tool that would be supported on mobile devices. "While Flash enables some really great content on the web, there's lots of people who aren't favorable on it due to its lack of accessibility, CPU usage, or crashes. It isn't appropriate for mobile."

    Hype, on the other hand, is fully supported on iOS and Android devices.

    The software is feature heavy and the official site also includes tutorials to help newbies get started with kicking Flash to the curb.

    Although Deutsch admits that Adobe has been making progress in Flash's stability on mobile devices, that all could be moot if the alternative is so simple, accessible, stable, and widely supported"
    Final death blow? Are you kidding? This isn't the first or last "Flash killer" that we have or will see. Saying you are going to replace Flash is almost like saying you are going to replace a major image format like JPEG, if it does happen it will take many many years.

    And even if (thats a big if) this really catches on outside of the Mobile Safari users that are desperate for an alternative, PlayBook's browser is also based on WebKit.
    Last edited by semicoln; 05-25-11 at 01:02 AM.
    05-25-11 12:54 AM
  3. Darlaten's Avatar
    How does one define a "good app"? Does it have to be flashy? Does it have to look cute? Does it have to have specialized menus, content, etc?

    Or perhaps a good app can simply be defined as something that you would want to use repeatedly and does what it is supposed to do.

    I would submit to you that there are no poor apps on the Playbook's app world; only apps that do not meet your current needs.

    I'll clarify what I mean, I purchased an app that is able to calculate linear regression - a statistical technique. The app is not "cute"; "flashy"; or has lots of options. But it does exactley what it supposed to - it calculates linear regression, allows me to enter my data easily, and presents a scatterplot of the data. If I judged the app on its looks, as some individuals have suggested as a definition of a good app, I would say this app fails. If judged on being flashy - it fails. But if judged on its ability to deliver on what it promises to do accurately and reliably - then it is a "good app".
    jajano likes this.
    05-25-11 02:32 AM
  4. zerochances's Avatar
    I've had my PlayBook for about two weeks, and already the lack of apps and core functionality is starting to wear on me. I love the platform, love the hardware, and I want so badly for this thing to be the tablet for me...but potential can only take you so far before you have to start living up to it.
    This is exactly my fear of what I may think if I get one.
    05-25-11 03:51 AM
  5. zerochances's Avatar
    How does one define a "good app"? Does it have to be flashy? Does it have to look cute? Does it have to have specialized menus, content, etc?

    Or perhaps a good app can simply be defined as something that you would want to use repeatedly and does what it is supposed to do.

    I would submit to you that there are no poor apps on the Playbook's app world; only apps that do not meet your current needs.
    I fully agree with you there. Identifying a 'good app' is a somewhat subjective approach as needs are different for every individual user.

    I do however get the impression from some of the responses in this thread that there are a lot of low quality offerings currently available in app world for the PB?

    This is not from personal experience, so I do not truly know. And I do hope, like others have suggested, that with some time we will see a significant increase in high quality, well developed applications.
    05-25-11 04:05 AM
  6. vicshannon's Avatar
    Not too good, obviously, since Adobe released Wallaby.
    Hmmm.. HTML5 has nothing to do with what the lawsuit is about and Wallaby is still in it's development stages and doesn't convert complex Flash files but only simple .FLA files.. Here is a link for you so you can get up to speed on Wallaby..
    Wallaby - Adobe Labs

    The difference is the the iPhone and iPad were fully functional and had thousands of apps available from Day One. Trying to justify RIM's rushed-to-market answer to the iPad is RIM's job. Not yours.
    Are you kidding me..? the first iPhone had very few apps and lots of bugs that needed worked out.. Thankfully Apple worked out a lot of them as time when on. The iPad is just a big iTouch and so it uses a lot of the apps that were already develop for the iTouch and iPhone at the time the first iPad was released. Yes, there are some incredible apps for the iPad and iPhone now, but that wasn't always the case. Sheesh, give the Playbook a few months of being out on the market and see what some of the incredible apps that come out for it.. I've already seen some really incredible demos.

    Is there a jailbreak app that doesn't void your warranty?
    probably not but that doesn't seem to stop people from jailbreaking their iPhone's (me included) and iPad's to be able to take advantage of really great apps and abilities that Apple doesn't seem to be doing.

    It would be funny. And impossible. It is about making money and developers are going to where the devices are. Not where they MIGHT be.
    Not impossible, anything is possible in the realm of programming and developing. Seems like a lot of these developers that are developing for Apple are also developing for Android and Blackberry.. Must be money being made all around.. I could name a few.. lets see, Facebook, Netflix, Nook, Kindle, TAT, Electronic Arts, PopCap, Adobe (oh wait, Adobe isn't developing for Apple), DataViz, etc. Hmmm... and the list can go on..!!

    Obviously you don't understand that the platform with the most apps win. Apple used "the quality vs quantity" argument for years and almost went out of business. Business was so bad that they even licensed clones. Apple's developers tools make writing apps easy. There may be thousands of poor or repetitive apps, but there are thousands of competitive apps. And not cheap ones! What's the most expensive app on Android and RIM? iOS has thousands in the over $100 range. And believe it or not, none are fart apps.
    Like I stated earlier, the Playbook just came out.. give it time, there will be more and some in the $100 range. And like I said, the first iPhone came out and there were hardly any apps for it and it had plenty if OS issues. The Playbook has it's issues and will surely be worked out.. As for apps, the Playbook cam out with lots of apps available for it and yes, some fart. but more and really awesome ones are on the way. Be patient!

    The point is that Adobe is claiming that Apple must be obligated to have Flash installed. Apple called Adobe on producing a quality product and Adobe is crying to Google and RIM to help them fix it. With all the segmentation going on between Android and RIM's platforms, it is no wonder that Adobe is washing their hands. I am a advertising executive and know for a fact that ad agencies are not just using Wallaby for banner ads (which are still not touch-optimized), but are also using it for complete sites.

    Ad agencies only care about their work on as many products as possible. If that means writing them in HTML5, then they will. Game developers use the same logic too.
    How can they be using Wallaby for complete sites when it is still in very basic beta mode? Show me a site that was completely made using Wallaby..!

    Adobe was never claiming that Apple must be obligated to have Flash installed. That's just absurd! And that isn't what the Lawsuit is about. You need to do a little more research into the topic. Here, i provide a couple of links for you..
    Apple Vs. Adobe Spat Could Lead to Anti-Trust Investigation - FoxNews.com

    Adobe Vs. Apple: Whose Side Are You On? | (Missouri Web Design) A complete website design one-stop-shop offers free web design tutorials, videos, articles, news, interviews, web design showcase, copywriting, software reviews, free web design stuff.
    Last edited by vicshannon; 05-25-11 at 04:12 AM.
    05-25-11 04:09 AM
  7. vicshannon's Avatar
    bottom line is this.. and I quote this from another site that says is all..

    "The only thing I care about is that I have the choice to buy a smartphone or tablet that has EXACTLY the same Web content access capabilities as my desktop PCs. If I can access flash content on my desktop PC today, I should be able to access flash content on my Internet-ready mobile devices today as well. Any device I purchase MUST be able to access ALL of the Web AS IT IS TODAY."
    05-25-11 04:18 AM
  8. howarmat's Avatar
    bottom line is this.. and I quote this from another site that says is all..

    "The only thing I care about is that I have the choice to buy a smartphone or tablet that has EXACTLY the same Web content access capabilities as my desktop PCs. If I can access flash content on my desktop PC today, I should be able to access flash content on my Internet-ready mobile devices today as well. Any device I purchase MUST be able to access ALL of the Web AS IT IS TODAY."
    but that is not true, you cant access ALL the web on the PB. no mobile device can unless its a windows based tablet basically
    05-25-11 05:49 AM
  9. xandermac's Avatar
    The android app player will only work with android 2.3 apps that do not use native android libraries, so none of the TAT apps would work as they use the graphics libraries, same for android games and most graphic intensive android apps, not to mention that the developer has to bother packaging for the PB (in some cases recompiling) and submitting to RIM for approval. There aren't many 2.3 apps to begin with, the number coming to the PB will be pretty small if you ask me. The bb appworld has a reported 25000 apps, 9000 of those being ebooks and 7500 being themes, doesn't leave a lot left over, I wouldn't expect PB appworld to be any different any time soon. The NDK wond be released until autumn so with development and approval time it'll be 2012 before decent native apps start to appear. The android and java app players will be nice but don't expect too much. None of the Android 3.0 honeycomb tablet apps will work and that is even worse.

    Sounds like a true "Apple's the best since sliced bread" worshiper. I wonder how that lawsuit is going..? Adobe vs Apple!

    I personally have an iPhone and love it.. Also own 2 iPods.. But the Playbook beats the iPad (1 & 2) hands-down (In my view) with hardware, true multi-tasking, full internet accessibility, and as the apps are developed, it will be a big contender on the market.

    With RIM acquiring "The Astonishing Tribe" for developing apps and the ability to run flash games and soon the ability to run Android apps, I believe we will see an explosion of apps by this summer. Also, since TAT developed a lot of Android apps, I'm sure they will cross platform all their current apps to the Playbook.

    Does the Playbook have some bugs that will need to be worked out? Of Course, So did the iPad, iPhone, iTouch when they first came out.. Why do you think they have updates every few months.

    And with everybody that jailbreaks their iPhone's (me included), iPad's, and iTouch's, seems like to me that they want their devices to do things Apple doesn't want to allow. Hmmm!

    Wouldn't it be funny if someone came out with an app that would run all the iPad apps on a Playbook? People that are developing apps for the iPad's and iPhone's will probably also develop for the Playbook and Androids. It's about making money.

    Do a search at the iTunes store for "Fart" and see how many apps come up..now those are useful!! Yes, Blackberry has those also.. But Apple claims to have 250,000 apps but the problem is, more than half of them are useless or similar to several others. In reality, other than some games and about 10% of the useful apps, most of the apps on iTunes are just junk. I know, I have an iPhone and have searched a lot of them. And yes, again, there are junk apps on Blackberry's App World. Bottom line, when it comes down to the devices them self, other than the iPad having a bigger screen, it's big and cumbersome where the Playbook has better hardware and isn't cumbersome.

    Oh and Adobe didn't drop the ball with Flash and Apple's webkit.. Apple is the one that dropped the ball.. Read up on what the lawsuit is about. Read up on Wallaby also, it is mainly for converting banner ads not action script and more sophisticated .FLA files.
    Last edited by xandermac; 05-25-11 at 08:00 AM.
    05-25-11 07:07 AM
  10. ifarlow's Avatar
    Shhh howarmat, stop confusing people with the reality of the situation. Remember, the rule is "Flash = Entire Web".
    05-25-11 07:07 AM
  11. ifarlow's Avatar
    I own one, and it doesn't feel unfinished at all, it's a great piece of tech and I absolutely love it.
    You have low standards. Besides, how can you say it "doesn't feel unfinished" and then follow up with this:

    Yeah, it doesn't have a native email client, but who cares? It's going to be fixed with a free software update.
    In other words, it is unfinished. And this is only one example of where the PlayBook is unfinished.
    05-25-11 07:09 AM
  12. xandermac's Avatar
    Go back to 2007 and read all the criticism of the iPhone, it was pretty bad from what I remember. I haven't use an iPhone since my 1st gen and probably won't again. But the fact is the playbook feels unfinished. Not on the hardware side, on the software side, I returned mine bc it couldn't replicate even 10% of what my iPad could do. Maybe in 2012 when app development is under way I'll jump back in but that's up to developers who are admittedly in a "wait and see" mode when it comes to the PB. I cant blame them, RIM had an oportunity to blow everyone away with the first ever native facebook tablet app and look what they released! It hardly showcased the pb to other developers, looked like any old blackberry app. Shame but that's just the way it is.

    The iPhone had zero apps when it first came out. Apps weren't available for the iPhone until a year after it was first released.

    And I'll say it again: I can tell you've never even touched a Playbook. I own one, and it doesn't feel unfinished at all, it's a great piece of tech and I absolutely love it.

    Yeah, it doesn't have a native email client, but who cares? It's going to be fixed with a free software update. If the PB hardware was lacking (something that can't be fixed), then you'd have a point, but the hardware is better than the iPad 2 in almost every way.

    It's funny how you Apple fanboys are so quick to jump on the PB for lacking a few pieces of software at launch, but none of you complained when the original iPhone couldn't even record video (even though any crappy camera phone back then had that functionality). Heck, the iPhone couldn't record video until the 3GS (2009 lol)

    Were the first couple of iPhones "unfinished"?
    05-25-11 07:16 AM
  13. mjs416's Avatar
    You have low standards. Besides, how can you say it "doesn't feel unfinished" and then follow up with this:
    So because someone is content with the device implies they somehow have low standards? I've seen some ridiculous posts on this forum but yours takes the cake.

    I have a BB phone and when bridged - I can do 80% of my work on a playbook (with the exception of some in depth excel work, graphics editing and database work). And honestly - I cant ever think of a time when I dont have my phone on me for work purposes so the whining about it being an "unfinished" product with no native email is moot.

    You want glowing bells and whistles and an app for everything - go buy something else. As a professional who knew exactly what I was buying - I am very happy with the playbook.
    05-25-11 07:57 AM
  14. ifarlow's Avatar
    My complaint about the device being unfinished isn't specifically about native email. Instead, it is about so much more:

    - Missing spell check
    - Missing AutoText
    - Can't organize and rename browser bookmarks
    - Can't search a webpage
    - Can't organize app icons into custom folders
    - No universal search
    - Significant lack of developer support
    - Weak Excel editing capabilities
    - Even weaker PowerPoint support
    - No app notifications, including Facebook and App World
    - Slow Bridge Browser
    - Inaccurate battery meter
    - No BBM group support
    05-25-11 08:08 AM
  15. JerBru's Avatar
    what apps are you looking for?
    i have all the apps needed foe my application.
    love the form factor and UI

    2 friends with ipads prefer PB hands down. Serious computer vs toy with thousands of useless apps.
    05-25-11 08:13 AM
  16. xandermac's Avatar
    If it works for you thats great! I'll stick with my useless apps like AutoCadWs, dropbox, evernote and flipboard I suppose & just hope that they can do what I need. Maybe in time the PB will serve my purposes.

    what apps are you looking for?
    i have all the apps needed foe my application.
    love the form factor and UI

    2 friends with ipads prefer PB hands down. Serious computer vs toy with thousands of useless apps.
    05-25-11 08:36 AM
  17. rppaul's Avatar
    For those of us from the business world that bought the playbook as a companion to our Blackberry the apps have been disappointing. True the playbook came enterprise ready and bridged to our bb for email and the sorts. (Those of us who have AT&T with some difficulty) but they totally missed the boat not having citrix receiver as part of the launch. The business apps in app world are small time. I don't need games, I need productivity apps. Hopefully with the summer will come some big time changes.
    05-25-11 09:23 AM
  18. ifarlow's Avatar
    what apps are you looking for?
    - Dropbox
    - Evernote
    - MyLifeOrganized
    - Twitter
    - Flipboard
    - Zinio

    Plus I want a way to import photos from my digital camera - directly - and review them, see the embedded GPS data in them, etc.

    Serious computer vs toy with thousands of useless apps.
    Typical short-sighted response.
    05-25-11 10:19 AM
  19. mjs416's Avatar
    - Dropbox
    - Evernote
    - MyLifeOrganized
    - Twitter
    - Flipboard
    - Zinio

    Plus I want a way to import photos from my digital camera - directly - and review them, see the embedded GPS data in them, etc.



    Typical short-sighted response.
    Maybe people will start taking you seriously when you stop insulting people. Right now I see you as some emo spoiled little kid who wants to facebook and tweet from their tablet (neither of which is relevant to the business / enterprise aspect of RIM).

    You want to facebook and tweet from your tablet - go buy an ipad. No one cares. Actually - you'd be better suited for the ipad community from what I glean.
    tstrike34 likes this.
    05-25-11 10:56 AM
  20. mjs416's Avatar
    If it works for you thats great! I'll stick with my useless apps like AutoCadWs, dropbox, evernote and flipboard I suppose & just hope that they can do what I need. Maybe in time the PB will serve my purposes.
    And therein is the problem - you purchased the device in hopes that it will conform to your lifestyle knowing full well what it offered when it was released.

    You purchased the device for what you hoped it would be - not for what it was.
    05-25-11 11:12 AM
  21. sportline's Avatar
    Maybe people will start taking you seriously when you stop insulting people. Right now I see you as some emo spoiled little kid who wants to facebook and tweet from their tablet (neither of which is relevant to the business / enterprise aspect of RIM).

    You want to facebook and tweet from your tablet - go buy an ipad. No one cares. Actually - you'd be better suited for the ipad community from what I glean.
    We are all insulting each other over pb. I just realised that it wont see any update and decent apps until maybe september. Went out today and buy an android phone, an old htc desire..3.7" screen. Small conpared to pb.At least i can read news properly. Without browsing. Bbc, reuters, whatever. So no need for me to complain about pb. Its pretty useless for now, sitting on table unused. Use ipad for browsing.
    05-25-11 11:16 AM
  22. mjs416's Avatar
    We are all insulting each other over pb. I just realised that it wont see any update and decent apps until maybe september. Went out today and buy an android phone, an old htc desire..3.7" screen. Small conpared to pb.At least i can read news properly. Without browsing. Bbc, reuters, whatever. So no need for me to complain about pb. Its pretty useless for now, sitting on table unused. Use ipad for browsing.
    What about the PB browsing experience doesnt work for you? I use mine at home now instead of my netbook - check my hotmail, check these forums (without any issues and flash enabled), surf Ebay, etc. I have no issues whatsoever. I also read MSN for my news and it loads perfectly fine.
    05-25-11 11:28 AM
  23. sportline's Avatar
    Maybe good for you, not good enough for me. Even on pb i switch off flash, i dont click ads. Speed is so so and tapping is not good, yet. Browser will surely be fixed. Would be nice if we can run opera or firefox in pb for comparisons sake.
    News apps is particularly good when it combines various feeds from different sources. Something like news360 in app world. Reuters or bloomberg apps present simpler way of reading..category etc. Convenience, not a necessity. But world change...what was then luxury, is now necessity..juat like tablets..
    05-25-11 11:36 AM
  24. mjs416's Avatar
    WRONG! The iPhone had web apps (widgets) which were heavily criticized. Now RIM is trying to say web widgets are better than apps. Good luck.
    A widget is not an app. There is a difference.


    Before iPhone (2007) "smart-phones" consisted of mechanical keyboards, scroll balls, tiny screens, baby web browsers with complicated data plans, multiple function keys, owners manuals the size of a deck of cards and styluses.
    You assume no one prefers hard qwerty keyboards - I do. And I had a BB 8830 back in 06-07 - the screen was fine, resolution was great, and the data plan was not complex. Nice phone actually.

    The first iPhone might have had a few software glitches when it first hit the market, but it was a fully functional product out of the box. Including auto correct and (of course) WebKit browser.
    They are 4 generations in and still have reception / antennae issues. I love it when they say the user is holding it wrong.

    Apple said that the iPhone was FIVE YEARS ahead of the competition (RIM) in 2007. Guess when RIM is finally catching up?
    2012. Maybe.
    Ummm... Apple said that? What would you expect them to say. Valid source though. LOL!
    05-25-11 12:10 PM
  25. Snick Snack's Avatar
    Apple said that the iPhone was FIVE YEARS ahead of the competition (RIM) in 2007. Guess when RIM is finally catching up?

    2012. Maybe.
    My colleagues have iPhone3s and Apple is lying when they're telling you it's the best smartphone out there. You must have gulp down that kool-aid.

    Their iPhone 3 was slow, cannot open jPegs, took them 2 hours to get an email that I received on my BB that they were cc'd on. Their iPhones couldn't properly open up 2 page PDFs which my BB Bold 9000 can.

    Finally one of them got an iPhone4 which finally can do what my BB Torch can do and which my BB Bold 9000 did 3 years ago.

    Yes, their iPhone4 is a smidge faster loading the webpage then my Torch, but I don't surf the net on a phone. So that's a moot point.

    As for camera quality, it doesn't matter whether it's the iPads or iPhones I can tell it's poor quality when I get a picture from them. In our work we need to have good cameras to take pictures and it just doesn't cut it.
    05-25-11 12:15 PM
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