04-03-12 01:17 PM
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  1. Barljo's Avatar
    Just out of interest, as I've read about the tier system before (probably from one of Buzz's posts to be honest!), if RIM decided to change their tiers, would the application price change as well? Ie if they decided that tier1=$25 (exaggerated for clarity!), then would your application suddenly change along with it?

    There's no point I'm trying to make, just curious...
    04-02-12 12:47 PM
  2. Me2's Avatar
    There are many other threads about this issue - but I will attempt to explain this again anyway.

    Developers set a price tier (not a price) for their apps. RIM (and only RIM) decides what actual price is charges in various regions.

    For example, I have chosen Tier 1 pricing for my app. RIM charges 1 U.S. dollar for U.S. customers, $ 1 Canadian dollar for Canadians, 1 pound for U.K customers and $.75 USD for customers in Columbia. By RIM's design, prices vary from place to place according to some formula that is not public knowledge. Note also that the price differentials have nothing at all to do with currency conversion rates and there is no "bug" in the pricing system - the charges are based on RIM's own unique pricing policy.

    As stated above, developers have no say in the actual price charged - they only set a tier. Developers receive 70% of the net price as determined by RIM for the particular tier that they have selected.
    Thanks for shedding more light on the process. So clearly we are being ripped off by design, and not by some glitch.

    Setting region prices to a "unique" secret pricing policy even seems to go against RIM's own FAQ which states that pricing is based on the USD price, but with appropriate exchange rate conversion to other currencies:-

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry App World FAQ

    How can I price my application?
    For paid applications, BlackBerry App World will allow you to select a suggested retail price in US dollars for your application. The US dollar price is associated with a pricing tier. The pricing tier shows the application price for the currencies available, with the applicable exchange rate, in AUD, BRL, CAD, CHF, CLP, EUR, GBP, HKD, INR, JPY, KRW, MXN, MYR, NZD, PLN, SGD, THB, TRY, TWD, USD and ZAR. Pricing in GBP, EUR, CHF and PLN is inclusive of VAT.


    So are RIM (or Digital River) profiteering and not following their own published policy which is supposed to be USD * Exchange Rate?

    What's the pricing structure for the EURO compared to USD? Does it vary by individual country?
    Last edited by PDAMad; 04-02-12 at 04:29 PM. Reason: .
    04-02-12 04:23 PM
  3. cbvinh's Avatar
    How can I price my application?
    For paid applications, BlackBerry App World will allow you to select a suggested retail price in US dollars for your application. The US dollar price is associated with a pricing tier. The pricing tier shows the application price for the currencies available, with the applicable exchange rate, in AUD, BRL, CAD, CHF, CLP, EUR, GBP, HKD, INR, JPY, KRW, MXN, MYR, NZD, PLN, SGD, THB, TRY, TWD, USD and ZAR. Pricing in GBP, EUR, CHF and PLN is inclusive of VAT.
    How much is VAT for GBP, EUR, CHF and PLN? And does that account for the pricing discrepancy?
    04-02-12 05:38 PM
  4. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Thanks for shedding more light on the process. So clearly we are being ripped off by design, and not by some glitch.

    Setting region prices to a "unique" secret pricing policy even seems to go against RIM's own FAQ which states that pricing is based on the USD price, but with appropriate exchange rate conversion to other currencies:-

    BlackBerry - BlackBerry App World FAQ

    How can I price my application?
    For paid applications, BlackBerry App World will allow you to select a suggested retail price in US dollars for your application. The US dollar price is associated with a pricing tier. The pricing tier shows the application price for the currencies available, with the applicable exchange rate, in AUD, BRL, CAD, CHF, CLP, EUR, GBP, HKD, INR, JPY, KRW, MXN, MYR, NZD, PLN, SGD, THB, TRY, TWD, USD and ZAR. Pricing in GBP, EUR, CHF and PLN is inclusive of VAT.


    So are RIM (or Digital River) profiteering and not following their own published policy which is supposed to be USD * Exchange Rate?

    What's the pricing structure for the EURO compared to USD? Does it vary by individual country?
    If you prefer to think that there is price gouging gong on, so be it. One mistake you are making is conflating two completely different notions: the price that a developer chooses versus the price that the consumer actually pays for a product. You will note that the quoted text describes how developers price their products and how they are paid. This is not a description of how consumers are billed.

    The price that RIM asks you to pay is NOT determined by taking a US price as selected by a developer and then converted to local currency. It's more complex than that.

    The fact is, consumer prices vary by region and the prices are set by RIM. Developers are not privy to the rational that RIM uses to determine the prices in each region. It may be based on a notion of "buying power" or on the cost of doing business or any number of other criteria. RIM decides how much they will ask you to pay for my product.

    A tier1 product like mine sells for 1 pound in the U.K. and $1.00 USD in the USA. It sells for only $0.75 USD in columbia. It sells for 1 euro in France but only costs .75 euros in Romania. There is no currency conversion performed during the payment processing. You pay in whatever currency is used in your version of app world. Taxes are add to your cost.

    I am paid based on the prices that you pay (before taxes). I get 70% of the net price that you pay converted to US dollars at the current exchange rate on my payday (which is around the 22nd of each month).
    04-02-12 09:56 PM
  5. Me2's Avatar
    If you prefer to think that there is price gouging gong on, so be it. One mistake you
    are making is conflating two completely different notions: the price that a developer chooses versus the price that
    the consumer actually pays for a product. You will note that the quoted text describes how developers price their
    products and how they are paid. This is not a description of how consumers are billed.
    The price that RIM asks you to pay is NOT determined by taking a US price as selected by a developer and then converted to local currency. It's more complex than that.
    I disagree. Note the words "retail price" in the the FAQ. I don't know what dictionary you go by, but to me "retail price" means the price the end customer pays at the point of sale, not some hypothetical internal costing rate agreed between the manufacturer and the distributor. The term "retail price" is unequivocal and universal, and is precisely a description of how much consumers are billed or are asked to pay.

    The fact is, consumer prices vary by region and the prices are set by RIM. Developers are not privy to the rational that RIM uses to determine the prices in each region. It may be based on a notion of "buying power" or on the cost of doing business or any number of other criteria. RIM decides how much they will ask you to pay for my product.
    So you confirm that RIM are applying a unique and undisclosed pricing tarrif for each country using a unilateral rationale which has little relevance to the original 'retail' price agreed with the developer.

    Which contradicts their published policy which states that the retail price is the USD price defined by the chosen tier, with adjustments for currency exchange rate and local taxes applied where appropriate. Note they refer only to "currency", and their symbols, there is no mention of further pricing adjustments by country or region.

    So no, I do not just "prefer to think that there is price gouging is going on", as you so kindly belittle it. But I can fully understand why developers are quick to defend the practice and are happy for it to continue. The figures speak for themselves.

    Using todays conversion rate of 1 USD = 0.625928 GBP

    Tier 1 "retail price": $0.99 (not $1.00)
    UK App World retail price: 1.00
    UK net price = 1.00 - 20% VAT = 0.80 = $1.278
    70% commission on UK Net price converted to USD: $0.895
    70% commission on original $0.99 "retail price": $0.693
    Additional commission compared to that earned from original USD "retail price": $0.202 = 29.1%
    Last edited by PDAMad; 04-03-12 at 10:31 AM.
    04-03-12 10:00 AM
  6. BuzzStarField's Avatar

    So you confirm that RIM are applying a unique and undisclosed pricing tarrif for each country using a unilateral rationale which has little relevance to the original 'retail' price agreed with the developer.
    This is a false and misleading statement. RIM does not agree a "retail" price with a developer. RIM asks the developer to select a price tier. If I choose not to select one of the available price tiers, I would not be able to sell my product to anyone anywhere. In a sense, I am obligated to accept RIM's pricing policy if I want do do business with RIM. I would add that this is no different than your obligation to accept the prices if you want to do business with RIM. Either of us are free to walk away from the deal if we don't like the provisions of that relationship. We are also free to complain to RIM if the business relationship is problematic in any way. But in order to do that effectively, you need to understand the process better.

    The lowest price tier (the one I have selected) has a retail price of $0.99 USD attached to it and I have agreed that this will be the price charged to U.S. customers. RIM has also provided a complete list in tabular form of all regions that APP World serves. The table provides complete information about the currencies used and the prices charged in each of the regions.

    FYI, here is the table. Note the last entry in the following table is the U.S price. You will also note that the other prices are set by RIM and do not bear any obvious relationship to the U.S price.

    Austria A1 (AT) 0.99 EUR()
    Gibraltar Gibraltar Telecoms(GI) 0.99 USD(US$)
    Philippines Globe Telecom(PH) 32 PHP(PHP)
    Indonesia Indosat (ID) 6600 IDR(Rp)
    United Kingdom O2 (UK) 1 GBP()
    Qatar Q-Tel (QA) 4 QAR(QR)
    France SFR(FR) 0.99 EUR()
    Mexico Telcel (MX) 12.5 MXN(MEX$)
    Indonesia TELKOMSEL (ID) 6600 IDR(Rp)
    Colombia Tigo Colombia 1799 COP($)
    United Kingdom Virgin(GB) 1 GBP()
    Spain Vodafone (ES) 0.99 EUR()
    Greece Vodafone (GR) 0.99 EUR()
    United Kingdom Vodafone (UK) 0.99 GBP()
    Egypt Vodafone Egypt 4.5 EGP()
    Romania Vodafone Romnia (RO) 0.5 EUR()
    Indonesia XL Indonesia (ID) 6600 IDR(Rp)
    Guernsey 1 GBP()
    Zimbabwe 0.99 USD(US$)
    Zambia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Yemen 0.99 USD(US$)
    Wallis and Futuna 0.99 USD(US$)
    Vietnam 0.99 USD(US$)
    Vatican City 0.99 USD(US$)
    Vanuatu 0.99 USD(US$)
    Uzbekistan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Ukraine 0.99 USD(US$)
    Uganda 0.99 USD(US$)
    U.S. Minor Outlying Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Tuvalu 0.99 USD(US$)
    Turkmenistan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Tunisia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Tonga 0.99 USD(US$)
    Tokelau 0.99 USD(US$)
    Togo 0.99 USD(US$)
    Timor-Leste 0.99 USD(US$)
    Tajikistan 0.99 USD(US$)
    So Tom and Prncipe 0.99 USD(US$)
    Swaziland 0.99 USD(US$)
    Svalbard and Jan Mayen 0.99 USD(US$)
    Sri Lanka 0.99 USD(US$)
    South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Somalia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Solomon Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Sierra Leone 0.99 USD(US$)
    Seychelles 0.99 USD(US$)
    Serbia and Montenegro 0.99 USD(US$)
    Senegal 0.99 USD(US$)
    San Marino 0.99 USD(US$)
    Samoa 0.99 USD(US$)
    Saint Pierre and Miquelon 0.99 USD(US$)
    Saint Helena 0.99 USD(US$)
    Rwanda 0.99 USD(US$)
    Pitcairn Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Papua New Guinea 0.99 USD(US$)
    Palestinian Authority 0.99 USD(US$)
    Palau 0.99 USD(US$)
    Pakistan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Oman 0.99 USD(US$)
    Northern Mariana Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Norfolk Island 0.99 USD(US$)
    Niue 0.99 USD(US$)
    Niger 0.99 USD(US$)
    New Caledonia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Nepal 0.99 USD(US$)
    Nauru 0.99 USD(US$)
    Namibia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mozambique 0.99 USD(US$)
    Morocco 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mongolia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Moldova 0.99 USD(US$)
    Micronesia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mayotte 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mauritius 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mauritania 0.99 USD(US$)
    Marshall Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mali 0.99 USD(US$)
    Maldives 0.99 USD(US$)
    Malawi 0.99 USD(US$)
    Madagascar 0.75 USD(US$)
    Lithuania 0.99 USD(US$)
    Liechtenstein 0.99 USD(US$)
    Libya 0.99 USD(US$)
    Liberia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Lesotho 0.99 USD(US$)
    Lebanon 0.99 USD(US$)
    Laos 0.99 USD(US$)
    Kyrgyzstan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Kiribati 0.99 USD(US$)
    Kazakhstan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Iraq 0.99 USD(US$)
    Iran 0.99 USD(US$)
    Heard Island and McDonald Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Guyana 0.75 USD(US$)
    Guinea-Bissau 0.99 USD(US$)
    Guinea 0.99 USD(US$)
    Greenland 0.99 USD(US$)
    Ghana 0.99 USD(US$)
    Gambia, The 0.99 USD(US$)
    Gabon 0.99 USD(US$)
    French Southern and Antarctic Lands 0.99 USD(US$)
    French Polynesia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Fiji Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Faroe Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 0.99 USD(US$)
    Ethiopia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Estonia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Eritrea 0.99 USD(US$)
    Equatorial Guinea 0.99 USD(US$)
    Djibouti 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cte d'Ivoire 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cook Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Congo (DRC) 0.99 USD(US$)
    Congo 0.99 USD(US$)
    Comoros 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cocos (Keeling) Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Christmas Island 0.99 USD(US$)
    Chad 0.99 USD(US$)
    Central African Republic 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cape Verde 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cameroon 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cambodia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Burundi 0.99 USD(US$)
    Burkina Faso 0.75 USD(US$)
    Brunei 0.99 USD(US$)
    British Indian Ocean Territory 0.99 USD(US$)
    Bouvet Island 0.99 USD(US$)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina 0.99 USD(US$)
    Bhutan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Benin 0.75 USD(US$)
    Belize 0.75 USD(US$)
    Bangladesh 0.75 USD(US$)
    Armenia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Antarctica 0.99 USD(US$)
    Angola 0.99 USD(US$)
    Andorra 0.99 USD(US$)
    American Samoa 0.99 USD(US$)
    Algeria 0.75 USD(US$)
    Albania 0.75 USD(US$)
    Afghanistan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Isle of Man 1 GBP()
    Jersey 1 GBP()
    St. Maarten 0.99 USD(US$)
    Curacao 0.99 USD(US$)
    South Africa 6 ZAR(R)
    Virgin Islands, U.S. 0.99 USD(US$)
    Virgin Islands, British 0.99 USD(US$)
    Venezuela 0.75 USD(US$)
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadine 0.99 USD(US$)
    Uruguay 0.75 USD(US$)
    Tanzania 0.99 USD(US$)
    Taiwan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Trinidad and Tobago 0.99 USD(US$)
    Turkey 0.99 USD(US$)
    Thailand 0.75 USD(US$)
    Turks and Caicos Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    El Salvador 0.75 USD(US$)
    Suriname 0.99 USD(US$)
    Slovakia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Slovenia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Singapore 1.25 SGD(S$)
    Sweden 6.5 SEK(kr)
    Saudi Arabia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Russia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Romania 0.75 USD(US$)
    Runion 0.99 EUR()
    Qatar 0.99 USD(US$)
    Paraguay 0.75 USD(US$)
    Portugal 0.75 EUR()
    Puerto Rico 0.99 USD(US$)
    Poland 2.5 PLN(zł)
    Philippines 0.75 USD(US$)
    Peru 0.75 USD(US$)
    Panama 0.75 USD(US$)
    New Zealand 1.25 NZD(NZ$)
    Norway 5.5 NOK(kr)
    Netherlands 0.75 EUR()
    Nicaragua 0.75 USD(US$)
    Nigeria 0.75 USD(US$)
    Malaysia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Mexico 10 MXN(MEX$)
    Malta 0.99 USD(US$)
    Montserrat 0.99 USD(US$)
    Martinique 0.99 EUR()
    Macao SAR 7.5 HKD(HK$)
    Macedonia, Former Yugoslav Republic of 0.75 USD(US$)
    Monaco 0.99 EUR()
    Latvia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Luxembourg 0.75 EUR()
    Saint Lucia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cayman Islands 0.99 USD(US$)
    Kuwait 0.99 USD(US$)
    South Korea 0.99 USD(US$)
    Saint Kitts and Nevis 0.99 USD(US$)
    Kenya 0.99 USD(US$)
    Japan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Jordan 0.99 USD(US$)
    Jamaica 0.99 USD(US$)
    Italy 0.99 EUR()
    Iceland 0.99 USD(US$)
    India 37 INR(₨)
    Israel 0.99 USD(US$)
    Ireland 0.75 EUR()
    Indonesia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Hungary 0.75 EUR()
    Haiti 0.99 USD(US$)
    Croatia 0.99 USD(US$)
    Honduras 0.75 USD(US$)
    Hong Kong SAR 7.5 HKD(HK$)
    Guam 0.99 USD(US$)
    Guatemala 0.75 USD(US$)
    Greece 0.75 EUR()
    Guadeloupe 0.99 EUR()
    Gibraltar 0.99 USD(US$)
    French Guiana 0.99 EUR()
    Georgia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Grenada 0.99 USD(US$)
    United Kingdom 1 GBP()
    France 0.99 EUR()
    Finland 0.75 EUR()
    Spain 0.75 EUR()
    Egypt 0.99 USD(US$)
    Ecuador 0.75 USD(US$)
    Dominican Republic 0.75 USD(US$)
    Dominica 0.99 USD(US$)
    Denmark 5.5 DKK(kr)
    Germany 0.75 EUR()
    Czech Republic 0.99 USD(US$)
    Cyprus 0.75 USD(US$)
    Costa Rica 0.99 USD(US$)
    Colombia 0.75 USD(US$)
    China 0.75 USD(US$)
    Chile 0.75 USD(US$)
    Switzerland 1 CHF(CHF)
    Canada 0.99 CAD($)
    Botswana 0.75 USD(US$)
    Bahamas, The 0.99 USD(US$)
    Brazil 1.25 BRL(R$)
    Bolivia 0.75 USD(US$)
    Bermuda 0.99 USD(US$)
    Bahrain 0.99 USD(US$)
    Bulgaria 0.99 USD(US$)
    Belgium 0.75 EUR()
    Barbados 0.99 USD(US$)
    Azerbaijan 0.75 USD(US$)
    Aruba 0.99 USD(US$)
    Australia 1 AUD(AU$)
    Austria 0.75 EUR()
    Argentina 0.75 USD(US$)
    Netherlands Antilles 0.99 USD(US$)
    Anguilla 0.99 USD(US$)
    Antigua and Barbuda 0.99 USD(US$)
    United Arab Emirates 0.99 USD(US$)
    United States 0.99 USD(US$)
    04-03-12 11:39 AM
  7. Me2's Avatar
    Thank you for being so open and honest - at least we now have some transparency!

    My staement false and misleading? Not at all. RIM does agree a "retail price" with the developer. It's their words, and it says so in their FAQ, in black and white. At least we agree that "at the other prices are set by RIM and do not bear any obvious relationship to the U.S price."

    In reality what they are actually setting is a "base" price which is then modified by region (with the US being 1:1), as well as then being further amended by application of currency exchange and tax.

    There is no mention in the FAQ of different pricing being applied for region or country, nor of prices being amended according to what national dress the consumer wears. The only factors mentioned are the currency and tax regime he uses. In my opinion that is misleading at best.

    Looking at my purchase history, I can see that RIM recently made it worse by rounding up to the nearest pound. Last year we had a straight translation ($.99=.99, $1.99 = 1.99 etc.). Now .99 - 1.00. As far as I am concerned this is just taking the p**s.

    It is those unilateral markups that are ripping UK (and other regions) off, and to which I and other consumers object. I realise that is not your doing. I still bite the bullet and buy apps where I see the need because I'm sticking with my PB.

    But, like it or not, the difference in pricing between App World and other app stores is so obvious, to even a cursory comparison, that, in conjunction with the lack of choice, all it does in reality is give reduced sales, drive away custom, and other platform advocates concrete ammunition as to why investing in BB would be an expensive mistake.
    Last edited by PDAMad; 04-03-12 at 12:47 PM.
    04-03-12 12:30 PM
  8. BuzzStarField's Avatar

    It is those unilateral markups that are ripping UK (and other regions) off, and to which I and other consumers object. I realise that is not your doing. I still bite the bullet and buy apps where I see the need because I'm sticking with my PB.

    But, like it or not, the difference in pricing between App World and other app stores is so obvious, to even a cursory comparison, that, in conjunction with the lack of choice, all it does in reality is give reduced sales, drive away custom, and other platform advocates concrete ammunition as to why investing in BB would be an expensive mistake.
    RIM's policies actually are intended to increase sales in selected regions where the price is "marked down". A cursory examination of the price table shows that a large number prices are lower than the US price. I have analyzed my own sales results over time and my average earnings per unit is very close to $1.00. I assume that RIM is calculating that overall sales are increased by their "discrimination" against non-targeted regions like the UK and is better for their bottom line and therefore improve investment prospects. Note that I am not defending RIM's policies, I am only setting out the facts as I know them.
    04-03-12 01:17 PM
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