1. missing_K-W's Avatar
    In regards to QNX being "POSIX certified" and iOS being a "POSIX compliant" OS...

    Hypotheticaly speaking it isn't unlikely that at some point a 3rd party could engineer software allowing for ios apps to be ported to QNX BB.

    What are your opinions on the matter?, assuming nothing is probable and anything is possible. I highlighted this point as this leaves a possibility for commenters to derail this topic, solely due to the grandiose nature of which is highlighted.

    QNX is "POSIX certified ", therefore anything POSIX theoretically can run in a QNX environment. Outside of all legal ramifications....An app written in Objective-C can be ported to take advantage of QNX'S "POSIX certification "....

    We need someone to make this a reality. No isn't good enough.
    02-10-12 11:57 AM
  2. anthogag's Avatar
    If Android apps will be available...I would also like to see iPhone apps...and windows phone apps...and anyone else

    It would be cool if RIMs qnx strategy involved taking ALL apps from every platform...this would show master/slave qnx coolness
    collapsed likes this.
    02-10-12 12:21 PM
  3. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    In theory if you could get iOS to run in a similar virtual machine, RIM would be able to do the same as they did with the Android player.
    02-10-12 12:23 PM
  4. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    From my knowledge, the only reason they were able to provide such tools for Android is because it's open source.
    It's possible to port iOS to BB Tablet O.S it will just take more time...
    diegonei likes this.
    02-10-12 12:23 PM
  5. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I was implying converting iOS native apps to QNX native apps via "POSIX compliant" means.
    02-10-12 12:26 PM
  6. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    + a million

    yes, this would be possible and very cool, a differentiator...

    another thing 'analysts' do not think about - is the demise of the desktop and laptop - that will happen soon - and when it does, how sustainable is apple really going to be, considering a large portion of their business comes from desktop and laptop computers - which are going to be obsolete for sure

    maybe i am looking 2 or 3 years into the future here, but blackberry will be in a great position because they won't have this huge chunk of their business threatened by the demise of a desktop / laptop computer market - which is inevitable

    i understand apple also makes tablets and iphones, LMAO - but - they also have this huge "legacy" computer segment that will eventually prove un-sustainable, therefore, cost apple a lot of apples to support

    sometimes, my replies take a u-turn into other topics, LMAO

    but, seriously, the future is blackberry

    tablets, phones, cloud, blackberry = all a person needs

    blackberry = future of paperless work - future of mobile workforce who never need to go to any office, ever, just work for a company from where ever a person wants to work from, like a beach, or a park, or on the water, whatevz
    02-10-12 12:27 PM
  7. diegonei's Avatar
    From my knowledge, the only reason they were able to provide such tools for Android is because it's open source.
    It's possible to port iOS to BB Tablet O.S it will just take more time...
    It is possible to port apps, both EA and Xlabs proved tbat already.

    The point really is licencing. RIM would most likely get sued if they tried to have an iOS VM ln the PlayBook.

    It's up to the devs to do a little extra coding and recompile for TabletOS.
    02-10-12 12:31 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    iOS apps generally don't use POSIX APIs directly, and if any do it's likely a very limited part of the app. Keep in mind many of the POSIX APIs aren't realistically useful to an iOS app anyway because of the process and sandbox restrictions. And you can't build a purely POSIX app for iOS because you have to be able to interact correctly with UIKit.

    Most of the APIs used in an iOS app are the Apple frameworks such UIKit, MapKit, CoreLocation, CoreAnimation, CoreData, etc., etc. Those are proprietary and wouldn't be available on another platform.

    This is true for Android also (even more so), but in that case RIM was able to create an Android player that offers most of the Android APIs, because that code is open source.

    Immersive games are a different subject, because they generally use very little of the either the Android or iOS specific APIs. Those games are much more easily ported.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 02-10-12 at 12:39 PM.
    Innovatology likes this.
    02-10-12 12:34 PM
  9. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    like, who needs a friggin laptop if a playbook works just as good, and can eventually incorporate "wireless hdmi" for seemless connectivity to larger, beautiful blackberrry branded touch monitors at home or at work, they will come in different sizes and be HD and 3D, the future is awesome, portable and stationary convergence - nothing else matters - lol - no need for "home based stuff" when people can just take a powerful tablet with them everywhere - so cooooooollllll

    i wonder whatever happened to "blackberry cyclone" - like, blackberry has SO MUCH opportunity - it ain't even funny, or a joke - they have the world at their fingertips

    you'll see

    all apps can be ported - no matter what - it is just a matter of whether it is "allowed" or not - by laws or regulations, but where there's a will there's a way
    02-10-12 12:36 PM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    It is possible to port apps, both EA and Xlabs proved tbat already.

    The point really is licencing. RIM would most likely get sued if they tried to have an iOS VM ln the PlayBook.

    It's up to the devs to do a little extra coding and recompile for TabletOS.
    This is where 3rd party or QNX Software Systems Could create a software environment that would allow a more streamlined means of Effortless porting.

    If I remember correctly, EA and Xlabs were raving about how easy it was to bring their existing apps over to PB.
    diegonei and cake99 like this.
    02-10-12 12:37 PM
  11. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    everybody wins when more people on more platforms can purchase software written for whatever
    jkeithbrown likes this.
    02-10-12 12:38 PM
  12. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    i am all over the place, sorry ladies and gents, im outta here like vladomir

    love peace and chicken grease
    02-10-12 12:39 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    It's up to the devs to do a little extra coding and recompile for TabletOS.
    That's true for immersive games. But for other types of apps, it's more than just a "little coding". It will be a totally different UI framework, different utility frameworks for network, maps, notifications, background ops, etc.
    02-10-12 12:42 PM
  14. diegonei's Avatar
    This is where 3rd party or QNX Software Systems Could create a software environment that would allow a more streamlined means of Effortless porting.

    If I remember correctly, EA and Xlabs were raving about how easy it was to bring their existing apps over to PB.
    So was the guy from that tank game and the dev for iTunesSync.

    The only problem I see is: "If my android app already runs well i side the player, why should I bother with a full port. I'm getting my money already!".

    That worries me.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-10-12 12:45 PM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    So was the guy from that tank game and the dev for iTunesSync.

    The only problem I see is: "If my android app already runs well i side the player, why should I bother with a full port. I'm getting my money already!".

    That worries me.
    Well I believe RIM has factored this into their business model....Due to the nature of how powerful the NDK will evolve into, I'm more then certain this will allow for applications that are much more advanced then what is possible for Android, iOS and WP7.

    The reason I imply this, is because RIM is going in a direction that is against the grain of the competition...RIM is upping the performance and capabilities allowing for MORE to become a reality on the QNX platform...The MORE, is where this should become a distinguishing reality.....Especially when the NDK for BB10 leverages QNX'S Distributed Multi Processing capabilities, opening up a new frontier in computing. This is contradictory to the "dumbing down" of the competition.

    The NDK will allow for exploiting QNX'S superior OS nature.....What isn't possible on other OS's will become a reality on QNX BB devices.....ex DMP, the embedded device market exploiting QNX'S many industry certifications etc.
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 02-10-12 at 01:01 PM.
    02-10-12 12:54 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Well I believe RIM has factored this into their business model....Due to the nature of how powerful the NDK will evolve into, I'm more then certain this will allow for applications that are much more advanced then what is possible for Android, iOS and WP7.
    I hope that is the case. But right now if someone wanted to port a business or utility app from Android to the NDK, we still dont' have a proper native UI framework to work with. And they still won't tell us when we will have that.

    So unless you happen to be working on an immersive game, the only option RIM is giving us now to support Playbook is (1) run your Android app in the player or (2) build an AIR app.

    Neither of those options really shows the power of QNX to the user. And once developers choose one of those two options, they aren't likely to go back and rewrite it natively unless Playbook becomes a huge success. So this is a problem they must fix. They can't just continue to say "it's coming soon, it's coming soon". They need to define what "soon" is or they risk some developers just giving up because of the lack of communication.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 02-10-12 at 01:12 PM.
    02-10-12 01:05 PM
  17. missing_K-W's Avatar
    @App_Developer- I sure hope RIM rectifys developer concerns ASAP... I feel your frustrations.
    02-10-12 01:10 PM
  18. kbz1960's Avatar
    I thought android had all of the "important" apps. No?
    02-10-12 01:46 PM
  19. ianken2011's Avatar
    i would be happy to get Android applications. That's what i am waiting for OS2
    02-10-12 02:01 PM
  20. diegonei's Avatar
    I rather have cascades to android.

    And I really hope RIM has a plan ready for the situation I pointed to...
    02-10-12 02:25 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    I thought android had all of the "important" apps. No?
    Well, I believe native apps will show off the capabilities of QNX much more strongly than Android apps will. So if RIM wants people to really appreciate the work they've done and the advantages of the OS, they should be encouraging more native apps.

    For example, let's say you want to run 4-5 different Android apps on your PB. The experience of moving between those 4-5 Android apps is not as nice as multitasking between 4-5 native apps.

    Another example, Cascades UI (if we ever get the stupid thing!) promises to be much more fluid and impressive than what you see in most Android apps.

    I see the Android player as a short term solution to fix the app problem, but i hope RIM is looking longer term with native apps. If they really want to differentiate the Playbook, I think this is important.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 02-10-12 at 02:53 PM.
    02-10-12 02:43 PM
  22. f_d's Avatar
    POSIX just means the set of basic Unix-style system calls and APIs (file system, networking, process control, interprocess communication, and the like).. Unless you're just coding "Hello World" assignments for Computer Science 101 Intro to Unix, the fact that the two OSes are POSIX doesn't buy you anything in terms of porting..

    Applications generally use higher-level API calls that are incompatible across platforms unless you write/port some sort of emulation layer (eg, the Dalvik engine that is the heart of the Android player on the PlayBook). So unless someone writes an iOS API translator/emulator, don't look for iOS -> PlayBook ports any time soon..
    Innovatology likes this.
    02-10-12 03:32 PM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    Well, I believe native apps will show off the capabilities of QNX much more strongly than Android apps will. So if RIM wants people to really appreciate the work they've done and the advantages of the OS, they should be encouraging more native apps.

    For example, let's say you want to run 4-5 different Android apps on your PB. The experience of moving between those 4-5 Android apps is not as nice as multitasking between 4-5 native apps.

    Another example, Cascades UI (if we ever get the stupid thing!) promises to be much more fluid and impressive than what you see in most Android apps.

    I see the Android player as a short term solution to fix the app problem, but i hope RIM is looking longer term with native apps. If they really want to differentiate the Playbook, I think this is important.
    I totally agree. The only android app that will be on mine will be something I can't get from bb10/2.0 that I really want.
    02-10-12 04:13 PM
  24. LuayS's Avatar
    + a million

    yes, this would be possible and very cool, a differentiator...

    another thing 'analysts' do not think about - is the demise of the desktop and laptop - that will happen soon - and when it does, how sustainable is apple really going to be, considering a large portion of their business comes from desktop and laptop computers - which are going to be obsolete for sure

    maybe i am looking 2 or 3 years into the future here, but blackberry will be in a great position because they won't have this huge chunk of their business threatened by the demise of a desktop / laptop computer market - which is inevitable

    i understand apple also makes tablets and iphones, LMAO - but - they also have this huge "legacy" computer segment that will eventually prove un-sustainable, therefore, cost apple a lot of apples to support
    I think Apple understands laptops are slowly to be phased out and are focusing on the ipad. It will still be a while, I'm cjrious to see how windows8 will change the market.
    02-10-12 04:17 PM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    I'm not a big fan of windows phone UI but then again I haven't used it. I think though from watching video of it that I still like/love the playbooks OS and UI the best.

    The thing windows will bring though is business apps.
    02-10-12 04:21 PM
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