[kc5hwb#CB]

Anyone seen a GPS app yet with fully downloadable maps that eliminate the need for a constant WIFI connection? The Playbook has plenty of memory space, I would like to see something like this Magellan App or Google Maps that has an option to download U.S. maps onto the memory and then use the Playbook like a 7" GPS device in your car. Right now everything I've found requires a WIFI connection to update the map, and I don't really see the point of GPS if you are standing still.

[FF22]

Unfortunately, nothing yet - I have not installed Android so I don't know if any of those apps work on the pb.

(moderator - how 'bout putting a question mark at the end of the subject?)

[kc5hwb#CB]

I loaded the Android Player and it works good on the apps that actually work under it. Google Maps seems to work ok, but of course they require a WIFI signal as well.

[Nashstruck]

Is GPS possible without the use of wifi or 3G in phones? I don't think the softwares are wired to function without it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kbz1960]

I'm not sure but think if you can tether (not bridge) it will work.

[FF22]

The gps is independent of wifi (or 3g). It can work but most of the current apps that use it, also use wifi to get some form of data, whether it is poynt showing nearby movies or bing drawing your current location. It is not required.

The free Compass app just show lat/long. And "What's Up" a star/astronomy program uses it to show your view of the stars.

[ssbtech]

Is GPS possible without the use of wifi or 3G in phones? I don't think the softwares are wired to function without it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

GPS is possible without WiFi/3G data connection.

I think what people want is the ability to use turn-by-turn navigation without an active data connection.

When do people use GPS navigation? When they are in unfamiliar areas. This frequently means expensive data roaming charges or no data coverage at all.

If the maps are loaded onto the device then all you need is a GPS signal.

Just like all the portable GPS devices you can use in your car on on your tricycle.

[DaveTheA]

Yeah, I'd like this too. You could get away with using very little memory if there was a setting to d'load only a 100 mi. radius map.

I have used the Magellan app while tethered a time or two, and it seems to work pretty well that way. I wouldn't run it all day, however, unless my data plan was very generous...

[ssbtech]

You have to wonder - do any of the people developing GPS apps actually go on road trips? Clearly not.

[FF22]

You have to wonder - do any of the people developing GPS apps actually go on road trips? Clearly not.

They might be Urban road warriors. But more than one time this summer I was in areas without 3g and definitely not wifi. On-board maps are the only way to fly, ahem, drive.

[MaxxJag]

I've looked a bit for the possibility, but for one Google clearly states that you can't download their maps for app use outside of getting them off their site.

The Android version of Google Maps is said to have a sort of cache feature, not sure if the one for the player has it or not.

[Altarocks]

There doesn't seem to be any concensus here. My folks are looking at their first tablet. Probably a 4G version, and a 10" is best for them. Sales guy at Verizon is steering them to a Samsung 10.1. Part of this is driven by their need for voice turn-by-turn (they have a large RV).

He assured them the turn-by-turn will work without data coverage. Can anyone verify if this is true?

[peter9477]

"Turn-by-turn will work without data coverage": once you've downloaded the directions, it could well work. But unless the thing includes a comprehensive set of maps (which wouldn't be a free app, most likely) it's not likely the whole thing will work without at least initial data coverage to get the maps and directions.

I also want to emphasize what MaxxJag says: you cannot use the Google Maps stuff offline, basically. They allow a very limited form of caching, for specific purposes, and offline use is not one of them.

If we see a connectionless GPS-based turn-by-turn app, it will either be based on OpenStreetMap, be thrown in for free by RIM to help sell the devices, or will cost actual money, so the vendors can pay for the maps they'll be including.

[FF22]

There doesn't seem to be any concensus here. My folks are looking at their first tablet. Probably a 4G version, and a 10" is best for them. Sales guy at Verizon is steering them to a Samsung 10.1. Part of this is driven by their need for voice turn-by-turn (they have a large RV).

He assured them the turn-by-turn will work without data coverage. Can anyone verify if this is true?

As Peter indicated it may work. The issue is that if there is no data, it needs onboard mapping in some form so that it can calculate a route and then "move" (pan) the map was driving occurs. Or it just provides the turn-by-turn but does not deal with mapping the locale. Also, if someone makes the wrong turn or changes their mind and decides to go via X instead of Y, the mapping software might need data (wifi/3g/4g) to recalculate a route.

I can assure you that there are places in Utah, Co, Arizona, Calif that do NOT have 3g/data reception. I was in those places recently and last year.

[laserx]

I'm sure it is very doable. 4 years ago I had a phone called an Eten Glofiish X800, running windows mobile 6. It had a GPS chip in it, so I could load tomtom and the maps on the micro SD card and I had a full functioning GPS on my phone. I had the maps for North America and a lot of Europe on that baby and it ran to perfection. No wifi or GSM signal needed. The phone only had a 500mz processor and 64 meg of ram, plus a nice 600x480 screen, even had an FM radio in it. With the Playbook spec's it should be absolutely no problem at all...unless they have a crappy GPS chipset, the Glofiish had a SiRF Star III for GPS.

[kingofthenerds]

The big question is how much would you be willing to pay for GPS software with downloadable maps?

There are a number of options on the market for other OS's

Magellan and TomTom make iOS packages
CoPilot makes a package for iOS and Android
Ndrive makes a package for iOS, Android, WebOS, symbian, Windows mobile and others (but not Blackberry)

Some give the app away for free and charge for maps, others you pay for the app and a base map.

Pricewise to get the app and US and Canadian maps you could be paying somewhere between 40 and 90 bucks. If you're willing to limit your maps a little more to USA or Canada only or a single European country you can get the price down as low as 10 Euros.

Copilot's maps are not well regarded, Ndrive and most others all seem to get their maps from NAVTEQ.

Presumably the Ndrive app and maps would be usable in the Android player.

[Blacklac]

Hopefully atleast Garmin will stick with Blackberry support, if not anyone else.

[Altarocks]

"Turn-by-turn will work without data coverage": once you've downloaded the directions, it could well work. But unless the thing includes a comprehensive set of maps (which wouldn't be a free app, most likely) it's not likely the whole thing will work without at least initial data coverage to get the maps and directions.

I also want to emphasize what MaxxJag says: you cannot use the Google Maps stuff offline, basically. They allow a very limited form of caching, for specific purposes, and offline use is not one of them.

If we see a connectionless GPS-based turn-by-turn app, it will either be based on OpenStreetMap, be thrown in for free by RIM to help sell the devices, or will cost actual money, so the vendors can pay for the maps they'll be including.

As Peter indicated it may work. The issue is that if there is no data, it needs onboard mapping in some form so that it can calculate a route and then "move" (pan) the map was driving occurs. Or it just provides the turn-by-turn but does not deal with mapping the locale. Also, if someone makes the wrong turn or changes their mind and decides to go via X instead of Y, the mapping software might need data (wifi/3g/4g) to recalculate a route.

I can assure you that there are places in Utah, Co, Arizona, Calif that do NOT have 3g/data reception. I was in those places recently and last year.

How do dedicated gps units manage to do this? Maybe it's simply a matter of having the preloaded maps with some built in software to correlate the position with the maps. If that's the case, I'm guessing you'd need to buy the appropriate maps and load them ahead of time. Assuming you could buy the maps, that is. This really makes the free turn-by-turn Android app only partially true. On second thought, I guess the fact that the app is free is still true, but what isn't shared is that it isn't functional without a data connection.

[MaxxJag]

Never thought about OpenStreetMaps.

Might look into doing something with that if I have some time.

[peter9477]

How do dedicated gps units manage to do this? Maybe it's simply a matter of having the preloaded maps with some built in software to correlate the position with the maps.

That's how they do it. Preloaded maps, possibly but not necessarily with an easy way to update them as changed occur. Likely some sort of subscription fee for the updates too, or in some cases you probably just have to shell out some upgrade fee when you want new ones.

[FF22]

My HIKING Garmin uses maps that are NOT cheap. And, yes, onboard is software that calculates the route and then uses the gps to track your location. If you miss a turn, it will recalculate with new directions. If you want reasonably up-to-date maps, you need to buy new ones. Topo does not change much. And how often they grab the new subdivision is up for debate.

The BB Garmin app uses DATA. It calculates the route and is always getting new data to redraw the map. I don't know how much onboard computing it does but it is probably done on board and then requests the maps as you move and it pans. While its map MAY be more up-to-date, they still lag in growing areas.

My Tomtom driving gps has both NorthAmerica and western Europe. My maps are now a number of years old but they still serve me well. It was terrific in Europe 2 years ago getting us from Munich to the Dolomites and then all around that area. There were definitely times with no data and it worked flawlessly since it does not need data. Obviously, it does not do current traffic.

[kingofthenerds]

Some company has just added a bunch of no-connection-required GPS apps to the app store but most of them seem to be priced at 9.99 (which is not an unreasonable price if they work) unfortunately none for my current location so I can't test it.

[FF22]

I _THINK_ that those programs/maps may show your position using the gps but I do not believe they create routes from a to b. You'd have to do that using the supplied maps.

[yllus]

Never thought about OpenStreetMaps.

Might look into doing something with that if I have some time.

Yeah, I've been looking into this today. The basic plan I've come up with is:

1. Try using Leaflet ( Leaflet - a modern, lightweight JavaScript library for interactive maps by CloudMade ) in its most basic form as a WebWorks app.

2. Download test tiles from OpenStreetMaps.

3. Try to get Leaflet reading from the local filesystem instead of pulling them off the Web.

4. Use the BlackBerry WebWorks Geolocation API ( Welcome to the BlackBerry� WebWorks� API Reference ) to place a marker on the map.

Lot of unknowns. I'll probably play with #1 tonight.

[hackerguy]

Since the last OS update the Magellan Compass App is a fully functioning GPS/Map that does not require WiFi (that is if you have a BB smartphone).