07-18-11 10:23 PM
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  1. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Perhaps you are right. Listen, if you want a more receptive audience for your hard work, head over to iOS. 15 billion app downloads in 3 years... Developers are welcome.
    I'm just saying that the participants in this thread do not represent the "typical" PlayBook user. I think that RIM has wisely targeted the existing BB smartphone user base. I think that most of these people accept the premise that apps are not all that important on a device like PB. They would like to see RIM provide all of the functionality of a pc for free. They howl that the lack of a file browser as a major problem and resent the fact that several developers have stepped in to fill the void (and have the colossal gall to charge money for their efforts). They acknowledge that the PB web browser is way better than past offerings but they complain bitterly that it does not multitask like the underlying os when you change tabs. They decry the need for developers to step in and fill the voids that RIM left (and have the colossal gall to charge money for their efforts). They view such developers as opportunists. They also resent the fact that many content providers have blocked browser access to multimedia content or have failed to provide free apps to access their services. In the absence of free apps, they think RIM is responsible for providing access to the content. They think that RIM should be actively negotiating with content providers to make the the goodies available (with free apps). These uses do not understand the simple fact that if money cannot be made, Kindle, Netflix, and all the rest will shun the new platform. Third party developers that have stepped in to fill the void are viewed as opportunists (who have the colossal gall to charge money for their apps).

    So in this environment, neither RIM nor third-party developers can expect any love. Augmented reality apps are simply not a priority for most users. They are looking for other kinds of (free) apps right now. I think that it a symptom of an immature marketplace more than anything else. I think that a lot of education has to happen and it will take a long time before things improve.

    So, I'm just saying that it makes no sense to beat your head against a wall. I can attest to the fact that it feels so good when you stop.
    07-18-11 08:06 AM
  2. Mercury's Avatar
    Yes, apps are important. But:

    1) 99% of apps can be used in a browser
    2) Never say never about this app not working in a browser (It just doesn't work...yet )
    2) Don't give me that wifi-only B/S.....It's called tethering, and its free (for me at least)
    3) You had to pay for this one
    4) Internet apps are apps too! (plus many are free)
    5) I'm in 3G range 99.999% of the time so
    6) The web browser is an alternative for many apps, but not all

    Point is, I am downplaying the need for "apps" in the Apple-defined sense of the word. They are not necessary, nor are they useless (in general). Just because you download something from an online store that tells you only what it does, doesn't mean that everything else is not an app. Playing flash is an app, bridging to a bb is an app and the browser is the best app. The playbook has many apps I find useful, but it doesn't need 100,000 of them.

    Oh, and your example app is NOT important:
    The playbook has:
    a GPS (free)
    a Camera (with screenshots) (free)
    a Level (free)
    a Compass (free)
    Email (webmail or with a bb) (free)
    a Clock (free)
    Maps software (free)

    BAM, I didn't have to pay 2 or 4 bux(if its the pro one or not) to apple to get the functionality. Even that app needs access to 3G in order to use that maps function, lol, omg so revolutionary.

    Stop asking what app you can do with, start asking what apps you can do without paying for. Just because I'm not spoon-fed what Apple tells me what a device can do with an app, doesn't mean I cannot use another device to do the same. Use your brain.

    So don't try to dismiss the Playbook as a toy just because you paid money for an app the playbook didn't package for you. And don't call those other apps "serious" apps because I happen to think its funny you spent money on an app when the playbook could do it for free. If you want to use your money for convenience, fine, then go for it. But the rest of us didn't pay for an iphone + app money in order to get functionality.

    Your post accomplished the following: "Apple-type apps are important" and
    "I have all this info on one cool screen" and " I paid money for this".

    MY post stated: "How to get that info/functionality for free". I am trying to help the crackberry/playbook community.

    So yes, in summary apple-type apps are important, BUT not really, :P
    I have to agree with this argument. How many times have I heard Apple's latest ads on tv "If you dont have an Iphone" claiming you need apps and other crap. No you don't and I'm so very thankful that I don't have an iphone cause then I would be like almost all the iphone/ipod users and be zombies and listen to Apples stupid brainwashing techniques. I dont care if an Iphone was given to me for free and I could get all the apps for free, I will not be brainwashed to think I NEED apps.

    I've got my torch, sure I use FB4BB and socialscope for twitter and facebook, but my phone has minimal apps. I DO NOT need apps to make my Blackberry functional.

    Websites can do almost everything. Games are a different beast all together, but just apps like news apps and such are not needed.
    07-18-11 08:52 AM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    if you are not using apps on you blackberry then you are using as a voice, messaging and email device basically. not a smartphone IMO. same with any phone i guess.
    07-18-11 08:57 AM
  4. sportline's Avatar
    if browser is all we need in playbook ( and in bb handset) then why rim even bother installing app world as native email?
    if browser is all we need, then there will be only one shortcut in the display : BROWSER
    if browser is all we need, the playbook will be called BROWBOOK or something like that

    ==================================================
    but apparently many millions ios, webos, android and nokia users still need applications..why are they so wrong? why can't they just use their browser? maybe because their browser is not as good as rim browser? aha! now i know!
    07-18-11 09:25 AM
  5. Kerms's Avatar
    Geez I can't blame a developer for not wanting to write an app for the PB after reading this thread.

    The OP wasn't saying that apps would replace professional equipment although it has on some levels. Even something as simple as a ODB2 reader can now be used on some devices. There are just somethings that apps are going to be able to do that a web browser isn't.

    Even Nasa on this last Shuttle mission sent up some iPhones and Android devices also to do something testing with some hardware.

    If quality apps are needed to get people to buy PB then you should be all for it because if the PB doesn't sell well. How long do you think RIM is going to actually support it? That means no updates. IMO RIM doesn't have the same type of community that Android & iOS has with groups like XDA & comex and other members
    07-18-11 09:58 AM
  6. donjunto's Avatar
    I Don't Hike.
    07-18-11 10:20 AM
  7. wildkarde's Avatar
    Sad that we judge a GOOD PRODUCT on apps now. I wonder how we lived and survived without them... HA!
    if we remember what an app is then what is the playbook without applications?

    I have a dual core pentium with 8gigs of ram and a massive HD, but what good is all that raw capability without something to utilize it?

    suppose instead of the advanced photoediting software that's currently available, all we had was MS Paint? Whats the point of touting capability of my pc?

    same for the PB. It's a great device handsdown, but it lacks the applications to make it useful beyond a big bbm device or something to read a newspaper on.
    scorpiodsu, howarmat and kirson like this.
    07-18-11 10:24 AM
  8. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Only those on a platform that doesn't have good apps will say apps aren't important. Just like when the iPhone didn't have MMS or copy & paste, the users said those things weren't important. Sure, it's not important when you don't have them. The most contradictory thing I've read on this site was one person saying he could care less about apps because he never used apps on his iPad and everything can be done on the web but then turned around in the same train of thought said "once the playbok gets Android apps, it will be the best tablet out there". And for those saying you can go to the browser, that's because you don't have a good app. If you had a youtube app as good as Android and iOS you wouldn't go to the browser. That's because apps on RIM's stuff stink. Of course you'd think going to the browser is better, because you don't have a better alternative. The point is, apps are what make tablets important. Without good apps tablets are nothing but glorified web browsers. There are things that can be done with apps that isn't convenient or you can't do in a browser. It's funny because the same people saying apps don't matter will realize they do when they actually get access to good apps.
    07-18-11 10:27 AM
  9. sosumi11's Avatar
    I dont care if an Iphone was given to me for free and I could get all the apps for free, I will not be brainwashed to think I NEED apps.

    I've got my torch, sure I use FB4BB and socialscope for twitter and facebook, but my phone has minimal apps. I DO NOT need apps to make my Blackberry functional.
    Try using your PC/laptop without any apps. What do you have left?

    Email.
    Browser.

    Or in other words, a circa 1995 Blackberry. Even a PC can make phone calls with an app called Skype.
    07-18-11 11:05 AM
  10. Mercury's Avatar
    Try using your PC/laptop without any apps. What do you have left?

    Email.
    Browser.

    Or in other words, a circa 1995 Blackberry. Even a PC can make phone calls with an app called Skype.
    ok, well I will rephrase... I use the default apps. Music on my phone and playbook, videos on both phone and PB, weather only because its an icon that I dont have to open unless I need more info.

    All the native apps that come with the Torch I use. The calendar, contact list, bbm, media stuff. I don't need games, dont need much. If apps were really important, I would be in Appworld downloading all the free stuff, but i dont.

    I use FB4BB to get notifications, but I open the browser to look at the notification on facebook. Apps are not important.
    07-18-11 11:10 AM
  11. sosumi11's Avatar
    Apps are not important.
    Why do you think Windows had 95% market share and Apple had 5% for almost 20 years? The hardware was cheap (commoditized). Therefore, the hardware sold. Developers wrote for the platform that had more devices sold.

    Walk into any store that sold software and you would see aisles and aisles of Windows software, and one shelf, if lucky, for the Mac.

    It's all about SUPPORT for the platform. Apps make your device MORE useful.

    The new OS war is about platform support and Apple is winning the same way Microsoft won. Mega millions of devices sold. Developers go to where the customers are.

    Not where they MIGHT be.
    BuzzStarField likes this.
    07-18-11 11:21 AM
  12. Mercury's Avatar
    Why do you think Windows had 95% market share and Apple had 5% for almost 20 years? The hardware was cheap (commoditized). Therefore, the hardware sold. Developers wrote for the platform that had more devices sold.

    Walk into any store that sold software and you would see aisles and aisles of Windows software, and one shelf, if lucky, for the Mac.

    It's all about SUPPORT for the platform. Apps make your device MORE useful.

    The new OS war is about platform support and Apple is winning the same way Microsoft won. Mega millions of devices sold. Developers go to where the customers are.

    Not where they MIGHT be.
    But apps are NOT needed to make the playbook better. Apple has so many millions of people brainwashed to think they NEED apps, sure, because of the limits of iOS and Apple not supporting flash, Apple needed apps, but Android, Blackberry, Windows Phones, Nokia, don't need apps to get to most places on the net.

    Apple has done a phenomenal job of marketing that Apps are needed, but they aren't required.

    I'm not disputing for 1 second about your analogy of Windows programs being written for Windows and millions and millions of programs compared to the limited amount for MAC, but again, Apple is surviving on its on software
    07-18-11 11:34 AM
  13. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    Apps make all the difference...

    Imagine if the Playbook had "apps" like iMovie and GarageBand.

    Kind of pointless taking all this awesome 1080p video if you can't do anything with it. Are you going to find a website that will edit this footage? Didn't think so...

    While I'm no musician I enjoy and so do my kids, using GarageBand to have some fun and write some of our own songs. Again, am I going to find a website that can do that? Nope.

    Imagine having an app like, Netflix... and BTW, where is Angry Birds? (and no the web version does even come close...)

    It's all about the apps. If it wasn't you'd only have a web browser, and one that can't even multi-task, in this fancy QNX super-duper real time operating system OS... and how boring is take... but at least you'd have the "full web" whatever that means...

    So, I wait for the apps... and wait, and wait...

    (Sorry to offend anybody by referencing some Apple apps.)
    07-18-11 11:37 AM
  14. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    Apple has so many millions of people brainwashed to think they NEED apps, sure, because of the limits of iOS and Apple not supporting flash,
    Please dont' be a poor sport and generalize. What does flash have to do with me editing and creating movies on my iPhone or iPad? What does flash have to do with watching movies on NetFlix? What does flash have to do with tracking my cycling on my iPhone, giving me detailed maps, evaluation, speed, etc on my iPhone? What does flash have to do with getting notifications from Twitter or Facebook?

    Please, such a silly statement...
    07-18-11 11:42 AM
  15. Mercury's Avatar
    Please dont' be a poor sport and generalize. What does flash have to do with me editing and creating movies on my iPhone or iPad? What does flash have to do with watching movies on NetFlix? What does flash have to do with tracking my cycling on my iPhone, giving me detailed maps, evaluation, speed, etc on my iPhone? What does flash have to do with getting notifications from Twitter or Facebook?

    Please, such a silly statement...
    The silly statement is how Apple has made you believe you NEED to have those apps. I use social scope for twitter and facebook for blackberry. but do you really NEED to edit your movies on your phone? Do you NEED to watch netflix on your iphone? Do you NEED to have your cycling tracked? NO.... Apple has made it a convenience but not every platform NEEDS those apps. Welcome to a NON Apple platform where things DO NOT need apps.
    07-18-11 11:51 AM
  16. Kerms's Avatar
    Apps make all the difference...

    Imagine if the Playbook had "apps" like iMovie and GarageBand.

    Kind of pointless taking all this awesome 1080p video if you can't do anything with it. Are you going to find a website that will edit this footage? Didn't think so...

    While I'm no musician I enjoy and so do my kids, using GarageBand to have some fun and write some of our own songs. Again, am I going to find a website that can do that? Nope.
    Imagine having an app like, Netflix... and BTW, where is Angry Birds? (and no the web version does even come close...)

    It's all about the apps. If it wasn't you'd only have a web browser, and one that can't even multi-task, in this fancy QNX super-duper real time operating system OS... and how boring is take... but at least you'd have the "full web" whatever that means...

    So, I wait for the apps... and wait, and wait...

    (Sorry to offend anybody by referencing some Apple apps.)
    Man Garage Band is cheating by using those smart instruments hahahah I will admit it does make making simple songs very easy.

    I agree though. We're not talking about apps to do web stuff, we're also talking about apps that gives your device more functionality. I've used Star Walk and I like it. It's a lot easier for me to show and explain to my son than starting him off on the telescope plus he's more willing to learn. I like midi apps that can be controlled by a midi controller. Heck even the little shot clock timer comes in handy. That app in the OP is kick **** although I wouldn't have a need for it but it definite shows what can be done
    scorpiodsu and howarmat like this.
    07-18-11 11:53 AM
  17. Kerms's Avatar
    The silly statement is how Apple has made you believe you NEED to have those apps. I use social scope for twitter and facebook for blackberry. but do you really NEED to edit your movies on your phone? Do you NEED to watch netflix on your iphone? Do you NEED to have your cycling tracked? NO.... Apple has made it a convenience but not every platform NEEDS those apps. Welcome to a NON Apple platform where things DO NOT need apps.
    Do you need a PlayBook?
    kirson likes this.
    07-18-11 11:55 AM
  18. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    The silly statement is how Apple has made you believe you NEED to have those apps. I use social scope for twitter and facebook for blackberry. but do you really NEED to edit your movies on your phone? Do you NEED to watch netflix on your iphone? Do you NEED to have your cycling tracked? NO.... Apple has made it a convenience but not every platform NEEDS those apps. Welcome to a NON Apple platform where things DO NOT need apps.
    Do you NEED a playbook? Didn't think so. Move on and enjoy your Flash only view of the world. Get ready for more vulnerability updates as well, it's not if, it's when... (and BTW, I do NEED to track my cycling, thanks to an awesome app, I have the choice to do so)
    Last edited by calaviqpfza4; 07-18-11 at 11:58 AM. Reason: typo
    Kerms likes this.
    07-18-11 11:57 AM
  19. wildkarde's Avatar
    The silly statement is how Apple has made you believe you NEED to have those apps. I use social scope for twitter and facebook for blackberry. but do you really NEED to edit your movies on your phone? Do you NEED to watch netflix on your iphone? Do you NEED to have your cycling tracked? NO.... Apple has made it a convenience but not every platform NEEDS those apps. Welcome to a NON Apple platform where things DO NOT need apps.
    then YOU obviously do not NEED a device that does things.

    This thread has become a battle of what what "i" want/need vs what "you" want/need. If you don't want/need to do anything on your device besides browse the web on a bigger screen then kudos. I would like to utilize this $500+ device to it's hardware potential. Hence I haven't purchased one and given the current progress of iPads, i'm leaning toward the rumored iPad3.
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    07-18-11 11:57 AM
  20. Mercury's Avatar
    Do you need a PlayBook?
    I dont need the playbook, I bought it for the multimedia capabilities of watching movies on the go, and music, and I do use it for presentations here at work. Surf on my lunch time browse when I don't feel like powering on my PC at home.
    07-18-11 12:00 PM
  21. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    I agree though. We're not talking about apps to do web stuff, we're also talking about apps that gives your device more functionality.
    Exactly. I'm not sure why some are acting like the web does everything. It doesn't. Apps add functionality to your device and allows it to do things that otherwise can't be done. It's like having apps on your computer. You don't do everything on the web, you download and install apps to do things that your computer isn't capable of and that you cannot do by just getting hooked up to the web. I can't take pictures and edit them and post to facebook with just the web alone. Apps allow people to do those things. With Android and iOS you have an entire bookstore on your device if you like to read. I wouldn't tell anyone to go to the barnes and noble site and just browse when an app can do it easier. Imagine not having an office based software suite available for your device, how else would you get things done? Consolidate all my financial accounts, bills into an app that tells me when everything is due and how much rather than having to go from website to website. These are things that add convenience and functionality. Otherwise, you have nothing but a web browser you over paid for. If I wanted a tablet to just browse the web, I wouldn't pay 500+ for it. I'd get a cheap $200 Android one that can browse the web.
    Last edited by scorpiodsu; 07-18-11 at 01:00 PM.
    Kerms, howarmat, kirson and 1 others like this.
    07-18-11 12:04 PM
  22. Mercury's Avatar
    Do you NEED a playbook? Didn't think so. Move on and enjoy your Flash only view of the world. Get ready for more vulnerability updates as well, it's not if, it's when... (and BTW, I do NEED to track my cycling, thanks to an awesome app, I have the choice to do so)
    So now because Apple came out with an a decent app, you think ALL platforms should follow suit? And you do not need the app, because what did you do before the app? People seem to forget how civilization managed for thousands of years before now. I was camping this past weekend, and we laughed when we went hiking and my friend pulled out his iphone 4 and he tried to lead us with the compass (out of cell range to use maps) and after he mentioned we were going to head east, and he claimed we were heading east, at noon, and when we didn't get to our destination, he wondered why, and I looked up and the sun peaked out finally and oh look, we had traveled west. Stupid compass App! I can look at the sun and know which way is N,S,E,W. So Apps are not the be all and end all. You can get a speedometer that reads your distance traveled, and speed and distance still need to go. I have one for my bike, and it cost me $150 which is far cheaper than buying a device AND an app!
    07-18-11 12:07 PM
  23. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    So now because Apple came out with an a decent app, you think ALL platforms should follow suit? And you do not need the app, because what did you do before the app? People seem to forget how civilization managed for thousands of years before now. I was camping this past weekend, and we laughed when we went hiking and my friend pulled out his iphone 4 and he tried to lead us with the compass (out of cell range to use maps) and after he mentioned we were going to head east, and he claimed we were heading east, at noon, and when we didn't get to our destination, he wondered why, and I looked up and the sun peaked out finally and oh look, we had traveled west. Stupid compass App! I can look at the sun and know which way is N,S,E,W. So Apps are not the be all and end all. You can get a speedometer that reads your distance traveled, and speed and distance still need to go. I have one for my bike, and it cost me $150 which is far cheaper than buying a device AND an app!
    Apps bring convenience and extend or add to the functionality of the device. Kind of like the car has done to the horse and wagon.

    Maybe you should have whipped out your ultra-portable Playbook to lead the way... What's your point? There is an App World for a reason, RIM bought TAT for a reason. Do you think they would have invested in this technology to have TAT develop Flash websites? Sadly no, if you don't need them, great. Move on, and enjoy your flash websites...

    Let's agree to disagree and move on...
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    07-18-11 12:18 PM
  24. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    I dont need the playbook, I bought it for the multimedia capabilities of watching movies on the go, and music, and I do use it for presentations here at work.
    All of which you're using the built in apps for, correct?
    07-18-11 12:19 PM
  25. Mercury's Avatar
    Apps bring convenience and extend or add to the functionality of the device. Kind of like the car has done to the horse and wagon.

    Maybe you should have whipped out your ultra-portable Playbook to lead the way... What's your point? There is an App World for a reason, RIM bought TAT for a reason. Do you think they would have invested in this technology to have TAT develop Flash websites? Sadly no, if you don't need them, great. Move on, and enjoy your flash websites...

    Let's agree to disagree and move on...
    lol I wasn't risking my playbook in our summer heat and camping lol But yes, agree to disagree and move on. I DO see your point, but I do not agree that tablets need apps to function.
    07-18-11 12:20 PM
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