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Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com07-16-11 07:20 PMLike 0 - 07-16-11 07:47 PMLike 0
- There's a youtube app on the PlayBook? WHY?!? I have full web, why would I need an app?
I would love to see more non-web needed apps on the PB. But please, no fart apps, no apps that do nothing but stream a websites content (here's looking at you CrackBerry, lol). We need apps that actually do something and do it well.07-16-11 09:11 PMLike 0 - Oh god, now I know why apps are so important!
They invented the digital compass! Technology like this thats been around for years NEEDS to come to the playbook otherwise stupid devs won't have low value apps to make!
Nice gimmick though.
No one said apps aren't important.
1. GPS (unnecessary - let me use dead reckoning and the astrolabe - been around for centuries!)
2.Accelerometer (unnecessary - I already know my orientation in space and I can differentiate between up and down - why are stupid developers interested in this information?)
3. Mouse, trackball, touch screens: (Dammit, I have a finger that I use to point at things - stupid developers don't need to know where I am pointing! That's just crazy!)wildkarde likes this.07-16-11 09:38 PMLike 1 - I wouldn't trust that app as far as I could throw an iPad. Wait, I could(and just might) throw an iPad pretty far. Is there a tripod for it? How do you make sure that it is staying still. How accurate is it? If a surveyor brought that to site I would tell him to get off site and stop wasting my time and then find a real surveyor. Sure it may be handy if you want to mess around for fun. But in actual real work situation there are reasons the machines cost as much as they do.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com07-16-11 09:59 PMLike 0 - I wouldn't trust that app as far as I could throw an iPad. Wait, I could(and just might) throw an iPad pretty far. Is there a tripod for it? How do you make sure that it is staying still. How accurate is it? If a surveyor brought that to site I would tell him to get off site and stop wasting my time and then find a real surveyor. Sure it may be handy if you want to mess around for fun. But in actual real work situation there are reasons the machines cost as much as they do.
FWIW, the MEMS gyro in the iPad 2 has an angular accuracy better than 0.1 degree. The PlayBook's hardware is likely similar. I doubt anybody could read a traditional theodolite or transit (with optical scale) to that accuracy. And as far as mounting and positioning goes, the same issues apply whether you're using a traditional theodolite or a mobile app with the same functions. Hold it by hand for basic use, or stabilize/mount it for detailed use. It's not hard to figure out. People have worked it out for binoculars, telescopes, theodolites, and transits for centuries.
I was going to invite the Theodolite developer to participate in the discussion here, since RIM was trying to get him to port the app. Based on some of the comments, I'd be embarrassed. The guy is a NASA engineer with serious credentials. With talk like this, you'll be driving good developers away.07-17-11 12:36 AMLike 0 - Hold it by hand for basic use, or stabilize/mount it for detailed use. It's not hard to figure out. People have worked it out for binoculars, telescopes, theodolites, and transits for centuries.
I was going to invite the Theodolite developer to participate in the discussion here, since RIM was trying to get him to port the app. Based on some of the comments, I'd be embarrassed. The guy is a NASA engineer with serious credentials. With talk like this, you'll be driving good developers away.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com07-17-11 01:45 AMLike 0 - I see apps as a double edge sword. I often marvel at apps used in aviation, the medical field and so on. The big drawback I am starting to see is having to pay for content on the internet more and more which in some cases I don't mind as I have several subscriptions for various things. Apps are the perfect platform for slicing up content and serving it for a fee. Just a thought, I could be wrong. This could be just the normal progression of the internet.07-17-11 06:22 AMLike 0
- I can't tell if you're being condescending or you're just ignorant (or maybe both). That app can replace a $5K piece of surveying equipment (and then some). Obviously not everyone can appreciate/understand that, but it's a big deal for those of us who do. RIM courted that developer earlier in the year, so they seem to understand the value too. It would be a huge feather in the PlayBook's cap, especially amongst the pro crowd -- surveyors, architects, construction, first responders, military, etc. This is just one example though; there are many others.
Technology is pointless if its not reliable. No one who needs to buy survey equipment is gonna go... Hey do I want a professional piece of equipment that meets my industry standards or do I want an Iphone?????
Like any professional landscaper, architect, ANYTHING is going to replace their professional equipment built specifically for their job with a stupid video overlay on a phone.
You are just disconnected from the world if you think that an iphone replacement is even a possibility.Last edited by esqlaw; 07-17-11 at 08:43 AM.
07-17-11 08:25 AMLike 0 - Please hold your opinions until you have actually used the app -- there really is no basis to say stuff like this without any experience/expertise.
FWIW, the MEMS gyro in the iPad 2 has an angular accuracy better than 0.1 degree. The PlayBook's hardware is likely similar. I doubt anybody could read a traditional theodolite or transit (with optical scale) to that accuracy. And as far as mounting and positioning goes, the same issues apply whether you're using a traditional theodolite or a mobile app with the same functions. Hold it by hand for basic use, or stabilize/mount it for detailed use. It's not hard to figure out. People have worked it out for binoculars, telescopes, theodolites, and transits for centuries.
I was going to invite the Theodolite developer to participate in the discussion here, since RIM was trying to get him to port the app. Based on some of the comments, I'd be embarrassed. The guy is a NASA engineer with serious credentials. With talk like this, you'll be driving good developers away.07-17-11 08:27 AMLike 0 - Other nice gimmicks that are not needed:
1. GPS (unnecessary - let me use dead reckoning and the astrolabe - been around for centuries!)
2.Accelerometer (unnecessary - I already know my orientation in space and I can differentiate between up and down - why are stupid developers interested in this information?)
3. Mouse, trackball, touch screens: (Dammit, I have a finger that I use to point at things - stupid developers don't need to know where I am pointing! That's just crazy!)07-17-11 08:32 AMLike 0 -
I was going to invite the Theodolite developer to participate in the discussion here, since RIM was trying to get him to port the app. Based on some of the comments, I'd be embarrassed. The guy is a NASA engineer with serious credentials. With talk like this, you'll be driving good developers away.
I asked you about network access because I have never seen any device's gps work without some sort of access to a network. If this is different for the iphone I was not aware of it.
Also, you are being pretty premature with your argument, considering RIM has stated that the NDK will not be released until the end of summer or mid fall.07-17-11 09:47 AMLike 0 - GPS only needs to communicate with a sufficient number of satellites in order to get a fix. It does not require access to a network. The PB chip does not make use of assisted GPS, which uses the network to speed up the initial process of finding satellites. Note that you cannot use a mapping app like Bing to test this out. Bing needs a network connection in order to download map tiles from the server and will not try to use GPS unless the network is accessible.Foreverup likes this.07-17-11 10:37 AMLike 1
- GPS only needs to communicate with a sufficient number of satellites in order to get a fix. It does not require access to a network. The PB chip does not make use of assisted GPS, which uses the network to speed up the initial process of finding satellites. Note that you cannot use a mapping app like Bing to test this out. Bing needs a network connection in order to download map tiles from the server and will not try to use GPS unless the network is accessible.07-17-11 10:44 AMLike 0
- You should invite him in here. Shouldn't he be trying to change my mind on this? If its as good as you say it is then he should be bragging about it everywhere. I went to the website and it didn't tell me much. Just told me what type of people were using it, but not for what type of application. Knowing what sort of applications it has been tested and used in would provide me more information then just saying it's been used by an engineer.
I first became acquainted with Theodolite when researchers from the Utah Avalanche Center began posting their avalanche reports and surveys using the app. In that scenario, I can see how a camera equipped device with GPS, compass, gyro, and maps could be pretty awesome. If it's a device like an iPhone or PlayBook that is small, light, and fairly tough for field use, it would actually be better than a traditional optical device in my opinion. It does everything in one shot, and they could even e-mail or upload reports from the device once they got in range of a network.07-17-11 10:48 AMLike 0 -
Don't underestimate the capabilities of modern smartphone devices -- between the sensors and the software, they can do stuff that could never be accomplished with traditional equipment. Some of the calculations built into the Theodolite app formerly required a spreadsheet on a laptop to do in the field, and would have relied on manual data entry. Before that, it would have been done by hand on paper. I think it's pretty cool to be able to do them on the device itself.07-17-11 10:58 AMLike 0 -
How the iPhone knows where you are | Phones | Macworld
This information is general, and is not unique to Apple devices. Other companies have been using the same procedures for years.
In the absence of GPS, wi-fi and cell trilateration can also be used, but with much less accuracy.07-17-11 11:03 AMLike 0 - Actually, my understanding is that these types of people are exactly the ones using the app, along with real estate agents, builders, etc. The benefit is that they can whip out their smartphone/tablet and get quick/easy measurements without having to pull in a surveyor or setup equipment. Just getting photos watermarked with the data is a big help for these people.
Don't underestimate the capabilities of modern smartphone devices -- between the sensors and the software, they can do stuff that could never be accomplished with traditional equipment. Some of the calculations built into the Theodolite app formerly required a spreadsheet on a laptop to do in the field, and would have relied on manual data entry. Before that, it would have been done by hand on paper. I think it's pretty cool to be able to do them on the device itself.esqlaw likes this.07-17-11 11:04 AMLike 1 -
As an analogy, I'm not a big fan of LexisNexis on a smartphone for legal research, yet it's fine for confirming statute text or finding actual case citations. The point is that the device need not be a replacement for all purposes to be useful.07-17-11 11:05 AMLike 0 - I was about to explain to esqlaw that the PlayBook's magnetometer is a hardware component that communicates to the firmware regarding the device's orientation relative to the earth's magnetic field. It is, in fact a digital compass because it communicates its data in the form of numbers corresponding to the user's compass heading. In astronomy we use the term "azimuth". If I had access to PB's compass, the user could simply point the device at a star and (with the help of the accelerometer to determine altitude) I could identify it. There are all sorts of possibilities for this technology and I really don't know why esqlaw feels the need to ridicule my desire to use it in my app.07-17-11 11:11 AMLike 0
- Different sets of circumstances often call for different degrees of precision. If a surveyor needed an uber-precise measurement, of course they'd favor professional-grade equipment. But if they just needed to quickly measure something in meters instead of micrometers, the phone-based system might be adequate.
As an analogy, I'm not a big fan of LexisNexis on a smartphone for legal research, yet it's fine for confirming statute text or finding actual case citations. The point is that the device need not be a replacement for all purposes to be useful.
edit: foreverup understood what I was trying to say well enough =p
Replacement as opposed to supplement.Last edited by esqlaw; 07-17-11 at 11:19 AM.
07-17-11 11:17 AMLike 0 - I was about to explain to esqlaw that the PlayBook's magnetometer is a hardware component that communicates to the firmware regarding the device's orientation relative to the earth's magnetic field. It is, in fact a digital compass because it communicates its data in the form of numbers corresponding to the user's compass heading. In astronomy we use the term "azimuth". If I had access to PB's compass, the user could simply point the device at a star and (with the help of the accelerometer to determine altitude) I could identify it. There are all sorts of possibilities for this technology and I really don't know why esqlaw feels the need to ridicule my desire to use it in my app.
But to your point I love the idea of the app, sitting outside on my porch would be pretty cool. Again like esqlaw stated no one is saying they are not needed but the ndk isn't released yet and when it is hopefully we will start seeing these kind of apps.07-17-11 11:23 AMLike 0 -
On my BB phone I've been using gpslogger for ages. In the backwoods getting/searching/holding a "network" signal can deplete the battery in short order. So I try to remember to turn off all connections but gpslogger continues to read satellites and track my movements. It has no maps, so my track is merely a squiggly line. But it will show distance and similar data. But when I get within "network" range I can email that track to myself and overlay it on googlemaps or garmin maps or other systems.
No need for a network.
Playbook is similar - it will show lat/long without a network. But to do other things, at the moment, no apps have internal maps or routing stuff. So it relies on networks.
As a matter of fact, just yesterday, I loaded maps into my garmin hiking unit to prepare for an upcoming trip. No network required - just a usb cable and the map sets installed on my computer from dvd.07-17-11 11:30 AMLike 0 - Some of the calculations built into the Theodolite app formerly required a spreadsheet on a laptop to do in the field, and would have relied on manual data entry. Before that, it would have been done by hand on paper. I think it's pretty cool to be able to do them on the device itself.
But like I said, its cool that you got a detailed compass app.
Apps are important but not that one...07-17-11 11:31 AMLike 0 -
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