04-03-12 10:17 PM
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  1. ScoobsDM's Avatar
    I recently contacted a few Android developers via email about porting over their paid apps. 2 I have not heard back from, 1 is doing the research and looking into it, and 2 i pretty much got the same answer from.


    Hi Jason, thank you for contacting us with your request to port the game to the Playbook. Unfortunately we don't have the time/money to both port the game (which as you say and we are told would not be terribly long in and of itself, but that does not include testing it) and support that separate community of users at this time (we refuse to release a game we can not adequately support), particularly given the position that device is at in the overall mobile market right now where there is speculation at this time that RIM is in serious trouble. If RIM recovers and can present a valuable market of users to us as developers, our position would change. If it does, we will consider porting and supporting that platform at that time.

    Sincerely,
    Fuller Systems Support


    this is my most recent response from Fuller Systems. With this being the answer from 2 out of 3 ( 2 of 5 contacted still have not responded), how can the Playbook get an increase of users without the support of the developers.
    04-03-12 11:56 AM
  2. bluetroll's Avatar
    to be honest, if i was a developer, i would be thinking exactly the same.

    all we can really do right now is just try converting them ourselves and hope they work.

    RIM gotta get their isht together and get the BIG name apps on BB10.
    mca312 likes this.
    04-03-12 12:01 PM
  3. kdna's Avatar
    Perception is reality for some people. Sucks but, eh?
    04-03-12 12:10 PM
  4. joski's Avatar
    Bah, it's a circle.

    They are saying RIM is in trouble, but RIM is only in trouble because they need developer support. I believe in RIM doing what needs to be done in this time prior to BB10 dropping. It's already happening, per Jared's article yesterday.

    I really loved the article i read on OSBB (which was from elsewhere, I just can't remember where right now). The entire consumer market (and Devs in this case) are falling victim to having their mouth penetrated by the media. THIS is why I've stopped listening to people's opinions - most of the time it's sheepy bull.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-03-12 12:12 PM
  5. simu31's Avatar
    where there is speculation at this time that RIM is in serious trouble. If RIM recovers and can present a valuable market of users to us as developers, our position would change.
    Damn, I wish I was "in serious trouble" where I had managed to increase subscriber numbers and still have 2BILLION dollars in the bank!

    Agreed, the subscriber numbers were not as big an increase as previous months, and the company did lose money, but this type of reply speaks more about the person who wrote it not actually learning about the market and just listening to other people's biased views, than it does about BlackBerry.

    Si.
    offthahorseceo likes this.
    04-03-12 12:25 PM
  6. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    That's one way of looking at it.

    Another way of looking at it is, "I'm a developer, and I have access to tens of millions of users through Google Play... If I convert for the Playbook it wins me maybe a 5% increase in potential audience, but it's an entire new platform... don't know if I can be bothered..."

    And using the line of "we don't want to support a platform that may not be there in six months" is silly... If the platform were dropped their obligation to support it would go right with it.
    04-03-12 12:30 PM
  7. Draconianfire83's Avatar
    It comes down to faith... and not the spiritual kind.

    RIM is putting a LOT of effort into promoting current and new developers to bring apps to PlayBook/BB10... They have BB10 Jam and are doing all kinds of Dev Events at IT colleges/universities.

    And while their customer (PB only) base is still fairly small by comparison, 1.5 million users is not a bad baseline. Devs need to buck-up and have a little faith in an emerging platform. it seems that some Devs don't totally grasp the fact that, as a whole, they are a major stakeholder in the success of mobile computing. Because of ecosystems like iTunes and Android Market, any mobile solution is now "reliant" on applications.

    To say that developers are afraid to support a platform that is "future unkown" is like saying "I don't want to learn something new that could increase my profits." That is dangerous thinking for any business. Yes, Developing Applications is a Business.

    Especially if they develop Paid apps. And moreover, if they are cross-platform communicating apps. The larger your customer base, the larger your profits.
    04-03-12 12:31 PM
  8. finkle56's Avatar
    That's one way of looking at it.

    Another way of looking at it is, "I'm a developer, and I have access to tens of millions of users through Google Play... If I convert for the Playbook it wins me maybe a 5% increase in potential audience, but it's an entire new platform... don't know if I can be bothered..."

    And using the line of "we don't want to support a platform that may not be there in six months" is silly... If the platform were dropped their obligation to support it would go right with it.
    Funny, if you are in the market to make money why would you not try to get your product into every market place. I am tired of seeing developers and moan about getting it done in a blackberry environment. Hey I remember the days programmers when programming for apple was a non issue because no one did it. Many games for about 20 years didn't even support apple. If I could even remotely program I would for blackberry because you have a hungry audience. An audience craving apps that give them the ability to have fart sounds and play games.

    If you want to make money and your app is solid in the other eco systems why not make some more money by bringing it to the Blackberry eco system. Last time I check, everyone wants to make money or why program any apps.
    04-03-12 02:17 PM
  9. BB.David's Avatar
    The sad reality is hard to attract developers when your App will only be available on a tablet, that isn't doing that well in the first place, and don't even have 3G or 4G connectivity. Not to mention BlackBerry 10 phones aren't no where near release.

    And even then, it's going to take years before BlackBerry 10 catches up to the 70+ million BlackBerry customers.
    04-03-12 02:25 PM
  10. kemj's Avatar
    This is an endless story. I simply don't care anymore. I believe in RIM. I love what they have done, love my Bold 9900, love my PlayBook, both as they are. The only way for me from here is Up. The end of RIM is FAR from Near, and so my support.
    04-03-12 02:39 PM
  11. WinningWithLogic's Avatar
    Funny, if you are in the market to make money why would you not try to get your product into every market place. I am tired of seeing developers and moan about getting it done in a blackberry environment. Hey I remember the days programmers when programming for apple was a non issue because no one did it. Many games for about 20 years didn't even support apple. If I could even remotely program I would for blackberry because you have a hungry audience. An audience craving apps that give them the ability to have fart sounds and play games.

    If you want to make money and your app is solid in the other eco systems why not make some more money by bringing it to the Blackberry eco system. Last time I check, everyone wants to make money or why program any apps.
    Here's why, and I'm answering as someone who is a developer for iOS and Android.

    You know that time that I would spend porting/developing for BlackBerry/PB? That is time that is better spent, in my opinion - and evidently almost ever single other developer thinks the same - enhancing my apps for iOS/Android, or building a new app for these platforms.

    The number of new iOS and Android devices being activated each day is enormous. From a volume perspective, BlackBerry/PB is insignificant and unworthy of my attention. I want to maximize the use of my time.

    Simple as that.
    04-03-12 02:45 PM
  12. dentynefire's Avatar
    did you try converting their apk file?
    04-03-12 02:49 PM
  13. masqueofhastur's Avatar
    Not having the resources to support it makes sense. What they could do though for ad supported versions at least is offer an .apk for download - no support, but for people with devices not on Google Play. It's free, so people wouldn't have much to complain about.
    04-03-12 02:51 PM
  14. greatwiseone's Avatar
    If they don't want to repackage the app/game and make a little bit of money, so be it. RIM's platform strategy allows lots of app developers to be on board...RIM just needs to sell more devices to make it a viable business case. If BB10 is successful, then lots and lots of developers can easily bring their apps over given the flexibility of the BB10 platform (C++, Qt, Air, Flash, Android, and webWorks).
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-03-12 03:34 PM
  15. dentynefire's Avatar
    its available for Kindlefire. Sounds like they are lazy to me...
    04-03-12 03:39 PM
  16. kbz1960's Avatar
    Just maybe there are developers other than android developers. Maybe some new kid on the block that makes something that kicks the outta of an equivalent app.

    Not saying it'll happen but just maybe.
    KOOLWATER likes this.
    04-03-12 03:46 PM
  17. jtokarchuk's Avatar
    What needs to be realized:

    Developers don't want to repackage. They want to have full native access to the system to take advantage of it to the fullest.

    Performance aside, it's a quirk a lot of us share.

    And with a new codebase in qnx native code, they then need to support that codebase. This means either a) spreading themselves thinly over two platforms or b) hiring more individuals to maintain both codebases

    That's where the nasty decision comes in with the playbook. With some working away at ios and android making money (or barely) they sometimes decide they just don't have the resources to committ to another platform.
    app_Developer, KermEd and kraski like this.
    04-03-12 04:40 PM
  18. samab's Avatar
    Developers don't want to repackage.
    The 2 biggest problems are that the developers don't even know what "repackaging" means and that the android player is not an emulator (i.e. not slow) --- and that is RIM's fault.

    Repackaging an android app to run on the Playbook --- it's more like taking your zip file and repackaging it as a rar file. Google's official Android is a virtual machine sitting on top of linux. RIM's Android is a virtual machine sitting on top of QNX. There is no difference in speed.
    04-03-12 05:00 PM
  19. finkle56's Avatar
    Here's why, and I'm answering as someone who is a developer for iOS and Android.

    You know that time that I would spend porting/developing for BlackBerry/PB? That is time that is better spent, in my opinion - and evidently almost ever single other developer thinks the same - enhancing my apps for iOS/Android, or building a new app for these platforms.

    The number of new iOS and Android devices being activated each day is enormous. From a volume perspective, BlackBerry/PB is insignificant and unworthy of my attention. I want to maximize the use of my time.

    Simple as that.
    Funny forum name, winning with logic? I guess business 101 just missed you somewhere along the way when you became a programmer. So I will bring logic to you.... you aren't maximizing your time by posting in playbook forum if you have no intention to develop for the playbook. If you truly were then your comments wouldn't be so defensive and condescending in nature. I consider you the problem not the solution. A true developer looks to get to the masses on all platforms. Blizzard proved that in the gaming world. The apps that are the most successful in the mobile world are now on every platform. Why, you ask? Because ever true developer and business manager knows ever sale counts and shying away from a solid consumer group, might not be business suicide, is not smart business. Then again your time is precious and that's why you are trolling a Playbook apps forum, when the platform isn't worth your time.
    KOOLWATER and imax_tm like this.
    04-03-12 06:05 PM
  20. finkle56's Avatar
    What needs to be realized:

    Developers don't want to repackage. They want to have full native access to the system to take advantage of it to the fullest.

    Performance aside, it's a quirk a lot of us share.

    And with a new codebase in qnx native code, they then need to support that codebase. This means either a) spreading themselves thinly over two platforms or b) hiring more individuals to maintain both codebases

    That's where the nasty decision comes in with the playbook. With some working away at ios and android making money (or barely) they sometimes decide they just don't have the resources to committ to another platform.
    Barely making money? I hope not being I paid a lot of money in 2 weeks for apps that developers are getting out there.

    I think in this day in age to many developers are rushing programs out and they find flaws a long the way after release. Then comes the maintain part of it, which is intensive because they rushed a app out. I say take the extra month and make sure it works and if it is truly ready you aren't having to continual improve it on a regular bases unless a new update comes out for the platform. Last time I check, not a lot of updates coming out for Blackberry's these days due to their push for the bb10 os.
    04-03-12 06:12 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    What needs to be realized:

    Developers don't want to repackage. They want to have full native access to the system to take advantage of it to the fullest.

    Performance aside, it's a quirk a lot of us share.

    And with a new codebase in qnx native code, they then need to support that codebase. This means either a) spreading themselves thinly over two platforms or b) hiring more individuals to maintain both codebases

    That's where the nasty decision comes in with the playbook. With some working away at ios and android making money (or barely) they sometimes decide they just don't have the resources to committ to another platform.
    I agree with all of this.

    I can't convince my partner or investors to commit company resources to this very small platform.

    But on my own time/money I don't mind doing it. However, I want to make a proper native Playbook app. Someday RIM will give us the tools to build such a thing. That would be cool.
    jtokarchuk likes this.
    04-03-12 06:12 PM
  22. andiamo's Avatar
    Funny forum name, winning with logic? I guess business 101 just missed you somewhere along the way when you became a programmer. So I will bring logic to you.... you aren't maximizing your time by posting in playbook forum if you have no intention to develop for the playbook. If you truly were then your comments wouldn't be so defensive and condescending in nature. I consider you the problem not the solution. A true developer looks to get to the masses on all platforms. Blizzard proved that in the gaming world. The apps that are the most successful in the mobile world are now on every platform. Why, you ask? Because ever true developer and business manager knows ever sale counts and shying away from a solid consumer group, might not be business suicide, is not smart business. Then again your time is precious and that's why you are trolling a Playbook apps forum, when the platform isn't worth your time.
    Lol, wow. The funny thing is, the tone of his post wasn't condescending at all, yet you immediately start your post off with a personal attack.

    I don't know why this is so difficult for you to grasp. Developers have limited resources. On top of that, many mobile developers are small, employing only a few people (if that!) and they can't afford to spread themselves thin over tons of different platforms.

    I write apps, and I'm a one-person "shop." It makes very little business sense to spend 50 hours writing a native PlayBook port of my Android app, when I could instead spend those 50 hours improving the existing Android app or writing new Android apps altogether. Sure, I might make a bit of money off of the PlayBook version, but my Android version has 560k downloads and is regularly clocking in a quarter of a million ad impressions per day, whereas my PlayBook port would be lucky to hit 10k in a month and would be providing negligible ad revenue. Therefore, with the limited resources I have as a one-person developer, I will allocate more time to Android development because it will make me more money.

    I have ported my app over to the app player, and I think RIM made a great decision in developing the App Player to make the conversion process as simple as possible. But I'm sure as h*ll not going to rewrite my app from scratch for an unproven platform from a company with a rocky future (I love RIM, and I hope they can turn things around, I really do, but they're in for a rough ride and nobody can deny that). If I'm going to rewrite my app for a new platform, it'll be iOS (or heck, Windows Phone) long before QNX, sorry.


    Oh, and I'm not sure what the Blizzard Entertainment comparison is doing there... they develop exclusively for PC and Mac and have never released a console game, which is hardly catering to all platforms. Even though their games run on a wide variety of systems, many people don't have PCs capable of playing any games simply because they are running crappy Intel IGPs that struggle to run even WoW at it's lowest settings, and thus can only get any serious gaming done on a console. Blizzard is not a studio I would have picked as an example of embracing the masses on all platforms, and I say this as a huge fan of their games.


    Edit: And before you chide me for "not maximizing my time because I'm posting on a PlayBook forum", I'm browsing this forum because I'm a PlayBook owner. I wasn't aware that a developer not spending 100% of their waking moments pumping out code was one who was wasting their precious development time.
    Last edited by Andiamo; 04-03-12 at 06:58 PM.
    SnoozerBold likes this.
    04-03-12 06:48 PM
  23. jtokarchuk's Avatar
    Barely making money? I hope not being I paid a lot of money in 2 weeks for apps that developers are getting out there.

    I think in this day in age to many developers are rushing programs out and they find flaws a long the way after release. Then comes the maintain part of it, which is intensive because they rushed a app out. I say take the extra month and make sure it works and if it is truly ready you aren't having to continual improve it on a regular bases unless a new update comes out for the platform. Last time I check, not a lot of updates coming out for Blackberry's these days due to their push for the bb10 os.
    There are two types of developers:

    solo, and corporate.

    The solo ones are the ones that have no problem porting code, and they are actually making money off of their work.

    Corporate users have to pay employees, usually pay subcontractors to get work done for them (graphics, html, php, backend, etc)

    So all in all, when 50 users buy their app at $0.99 a month, do the numbers make sense?

    It sucks, I know, and I (being a developer) wish there were more eager developers for the PlayBook, but there are some harsh truths when it comes to business.
    04-03-12 07:02 PM
  24. KermEd's Avatar
    I have to say, I have an issue with thread titles like this one. Why? I am an Android developer. I am not scared for BlackBerry. But this title suggests all Android developers are in agreement with the OP and I disagree. Ah long post...

    I do agree with what jtokarchuk said above though. On Android and iOS most developers make nada. But a handful make millions. On the PB (inversely) most developers make a little bit and no one really makes millions . I know this because I was in the top ten apps for sale for a long time.

    The end result is serious large companies target iOS because they only follow wall street. Large groups and established developers follow Android because it has been around longer and uses a more natural set of languages for younger developers. And PlayBook is for lone-wolves and developers who happen to use a PlayBook and build the apps they want so they can use them.

    Remember, when you give out 15,000 free tablets to junior developers you will encourage juniour apps.

    This starts to blur overtime and level out. There are lots of lessons to be learnt for RIM (etc, etc). But the userbase is getting large enough to slide over larger groups and individuals. And unless your ignorant of technology, you always want to be one of the first developers in a market that is a survival mechanism for a large company.

    And if an Android developer with a working app that is easy to port is to lazy or nervous go port, who cares . Evolution will take care of them. Think about it, more platforms (easily) means more and more consistent money. Which means the diversified and constantly migrating developer does better in life financially. And we know that income is a rolling figure (i.e. Richer people make more money easier).

    But if they dont want to migrate, let them hang themselves. But I agree that the rewards have not grown as much as they will or need to in developing for the PB in a lot of cases .
    04-03-12 08:35 PM
  25. KermEd's Avatar
    Oop dbl post
    04-03-12 08:36 PM
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