01-04-14 01:27 AM
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  1. bizdudePB's Avatar
    A couple of online articles got me wondering about what kinds of apps could be developed if application developers could take advantage of TDP?

    Transparent Distributed Processing is in QNX, and thus in BB10, and is patented by BlackBerry. What it allows is for applications on a device using QNX, to potentially be allowed access to components on another device, without caring about the communications / network integration, etc between those devices. So, if a camera app on one BB10 phone could see two cameras available for picture taking on the one device, it would suddenly be able to see 4 cameras across two devices connected. It also allows sharing of processor power, so the app on one device could execute processes on the other device.

    Here are some articles I found interesting:

    BlackBerry 10: Forget about the phone - it's the OS that really counts | ZDNet
    https://developer.blackberry.com/nat...ro_unique.html

    So, the first question is... Is there a way to leverage this incredible capability?
    Second question... What kinds of cool apps could be developed that would be unique to BB10 devices?

    I was also wondering if it might be neat if Blackberry had some level of BB10 / QNX running as a VM on PC's and Macs, and allow devices to leverage personal computers as well? Maybe a future version of Link would include BB10 as a mini VM, maybe allowing apps like BBM to run on the desktop?

    Please post if you know anything about TDP on BB10 and how a developer could leverage it, or post your app ideas that could leverage TDP!
    12-06-13 04:26 PM
  2. bizdudePB's Avatar
    App Idea: Multi-device camera app

    Following is a thought of a possible camera app that could use TDP. Would be cool if existing camera apps could tap into this, without having to do much programming, if TDP was available at an OS level.

    Scenario 1:

    1. I press the camera button on my Z30, my wife presses her camera on her Z10.
    2. She initiates a "tap" and do an NFC validation. Our camera apps become one camera app across one virtual device, using two physical devices.
    3. She initiated so she has the camera app UI, but can choose to see my back facing camera. I hold the camera above the crowd and she can take pictures of the parade, school activity, etc. I could even lean in to see her screen, and rotate my phone, seeing my phone's camera display on her phone. She clicks the picture(s) she wants.

    Scenario 2:

    1. Similar to above, but maybe a simple video TV production app, used by junior high school students on the fly to make some school documentary, or project
    2. In a live setting, it could be like live news, where one student with their Z10 is connected to 3 other classmates, using their phone cameras as TV cameras. The three can see their video on their screen, but the "TV Producer" maybe using a Z30, can decide which of the 3 field phones is giving the live feed (maybe fed to a monitor or TV over HDMI cable or DLNA), producing a live news cast to the class.
    3. Take that one step further the TV Producer could decide when to record on each of the cameras. Later with video software, could edit the videos for the school project.
    4. Maybe that last scenario, where it is recorded, have the 4 students create a BBM group, and that is how they connect, and can engage in a "session" and the app works using BBM. If BlackBerry is creating a cloud solution (or maybe connect to Dropbox, etc), then the BBM Group could have associated cloud storage for files, videos and pictures, and the videos are centralized there from the 3 field devices.

    The main thing with these examples is to not have the app developers have to develop all the connectivity required between the phones, and the cloud storage. Imagine that the BB10 devices and BBM provide all that is needed. The developer creates an app that has an interface that can allow the user to switch between TDP connected resources (i.e. cameras), and request multiple recordings at once, which can just be stored locally or in the cloud. Make it so the app dev can do apps like this much more easily than on iOS or Android.
    12-06-13 04:44 PM
  3. bizdudePB's Avatar
    App Idea: Dual WiFi

    Probably only possible by BB I would guess.

    Imagine that I could link up to another device, combining the two as a single virtual device, and have access to the Internet over two WiFi connections instead of one. Might help with those hotel and conference room dead spots. Connect to my colleague's BB10 phone from mine, and use both as a single hotspot for my client demo.
    12-06-13 04:48 PM
  4. BennyX's Avatar
    Kinda like mesh networking?

    There's Serval Mesh as well as Open Garden for Android, nothing native for BlackBerry yet though...

    Actually there is an app for Windows called Connectify Dispatch that I think does exactly what you want. Maybe you could convince the developers to do a port to BB10?

    Thus far, there is no solution that will enable one wifi radio to connect to multiple spots at the same time.
    Last edited by BennyX; 12-06-13 at 05:24 PM.
    12-06-13 05:13 PM
  5. bizdudePB's Avatar
    I'll read up on that. Not familiar with mesh networking. Is it something that could be ported, and then used within apps? Or is it something that would have to be done at the OS level?
    12-06-13 05:23 PM
  6. BennyX's Avatar
    I'll read up on that. Not familiar with mesh networking. Is it something that could be ported, and then used within apps? Or is it something that would have to be done at the OS level?
    That I don't know. Ported, probably. Although I tried using the Android version of Serval Mesh and it couldn't detect the hardware properly.. so make of that what you will, lol. Mesh networking as I understand it is basically a dynamic LAN of sorts.. with Serval Mesh, for example, if the cellular network goes down, you can still make calls as long as you can connect to others running a mesh networking app.

    With something like Connectify Dispatch, though... it may be something that is implemented at the OS level. Here's a pretty good overview of it. Apparently it can be done with Linux without an app, whereas Windows requires an app to do the same thing.


    *come to think of it, QNX's TDP ability sounds a lot like Inmos' Transputer architecture from the 80's! That was implemented at a hardware level, whereas with QNX it is of course done at the software level..
    Last edited by BennyX; 12-06-13 at 07:13 PM.
    12-06-13 05:34 PM
  7. bizdudePB's Avatar
    Yeah I think the level of abstraction for developers with TDP is that device capability "appears" to the apps running on it. So, if another device is connected, then a camera app running on one device can just see that it now has 4 cameras instead of 2. Also, it could find some of its processes are also running on that other device. Somehow at the QNX OS level, it would "take care" of how those devices get connected and move messages around. At this level of "taking care" of things, the OS maybe could use various ways to keep devices connected such as Mesh?

    I'm not really sure that its suitable for the more dynamic availability of mobile devices, compared to say TDP providing inherent HA for Nuclear Powerplants, etc.

    I'm poking around BB / QNX to see if anyone can help me understand this. What I'm after is finding something totally unique to BB, and then seeing if the BB community can find things to do with it that no other system can do. That would help differentiate BB from other platforms in a potentially big way (I hope). I'm no longer much of a developer anymore, but might like to sponsor someone or a team around some kind of unique development.
    12-08-13 11:50 AM
  8. BennyX's Avatar
    not sure if you've seen this yet, but it might be an interesting read.

    For a demonstration of (what is probably an example of) TDP, look at these three videos.
    Last edited by BennyX; 12-08-13 at 04:23 PM.
    12-08-13 04:04 PM
  9. BCITMike's Avatar
    In a stadium or public place, after an event, all the pictures could be uploaded and pieced together to give 3D representation of what occurred. JFK mystery never again.

    Posted via CB10
    12-08-13 04:32 PM
  10. bizdudePB's Avatar
    not sure if you've seen this yet, but it might be an interesting read.

    For a demonstration of (what is probably an example of) TDP, look at these three videos.
    That's a great article! Transparent Distributed Processing (TDP) | BerryFlow.com

    Now I'd just love to see some example apps showing developers how they could leverage TDP! It just seems like, with very little effort, some apps could adapt. For example, maybe adding NFC pairing between two BB10 devices and the same camera apps available suddenly have 4 camera options instead of two. Can this be done today?
    12-08-13 08:24 PM
  11. bizdudePB's Avatar
    not sure if you've seen this yet, but it might be an interesting read.

    For a demonstration of (what is probably an example of) TDP, look at these three videos.
    I have seen those 3 videos before, and love this meeting doc / presentation sharing concept. Anybody able to make an app like this one? They use a camera above the table to know the position of one device versus another, so might need to find gestures to replace the camera positioning (or could the device cameras be used?). But, this IS the kind of application that I'm referring to. Now just wonder if developers can leverage this or can only BB program at that level? This should be available to BB10 devs.

    I'd be willing to put a little money as a prize to a person or team who could create such an app.
    12-08-13 08:31 PM
  12. bizdudePB's Avatar
    In a stadium or public place, after an event, all the pictures could be uploaded and pieced together to give 3D representation of what occurred. JFK mystery never again.

    Posted via CB10
    That's a cool idea. A kind of crowd sourced 3D imaging
    12-08-13 08:37 PM
  13. BennyX's Avatar
    I have seen those 3 videos before, and love this meeting doc / presentation sharing concept. Anybody able to make an app like this one? They use a camera above the table to know the position of one device versus another, so might need to find gestures to replace the camera positioning (or could the device cameras be used?). But, this IS the kind of application that I'm referring to. Now just wonder if developers can leverage this or can only BB program at that level? This should be available to BB10 devs.

    I'd be willing to put a little money as a prize to a person or team who could create such an app.
    ultimately there wouldn't need to be a camera above at all. All the devices in unison could choose a central point in agreement with each other, and gauge their position respective of that point. For that kind of distributed/sharing application, there's no reason for a camera to be present. It's just Blackberry's idiotic way of doing things, again. They like to lock themselves out of their own potential future, it seems.

    It's no wonder most of TAT has left... they were hamstrunged and couldn't do anything within Blackberry's grasp.
    12-10-13 04:15 PM
  14. BCITMike's Avatar
    ultimately there wouldn't need to be a camera above at all. All the devices in unison could choose a central point in agreement with each other, and gauge their position respective of that point. For that kind of distributed/sharing application, there's no reason for a camera to be present. It's just Blackberry's idiotic way of doing things, again. They like to lock themselves out of their own potential future, it seems.

    It's no wonder most of TAT has left... they were hamstrunged and couldn't do anything within Blackberry's grasp.
    Tell me, in detail, how all the devices would agree on an exact point? Not bluetooth, not GPS, not NFC, not proximity sensor... How would it know where the edge of the screen on one device is? How would you know if it moved?

    You make it sound like its so easy and BB did it in an "idiotic way". But you probably cannot explain how it could be done on a Playbook or BB10 device without using a third eye.
    12-10-13 04:55 PM
  15. BennyX's Avatar
    Tell me, in detail, how all the devices would agree on an exact point? Not bluetooth, not GPS, not NFC, not proximity sensor... How would it know where the edge of the screen on one device is? How would you know if it moved?

    You make it sound like its so easy and BB did it in an "idiotic way". But you probably cannot explain how it could be done on a Playbook or BB10 device without using a third eye.
    Maybe by bouncing signals off each device? By timing each one's response to an ACK? Measuring magnetic proximity to a source? There is no reason for there to be a camera to make this scenario work. If one wanted it to work in a short time and only as a demo, then sure. But in a realistic arrangement, a layout of each device can be mapped virtually, and those devices can respond accordingly. No camera is required.

    Maybe ask QNX themselves. They pioneered Transparent Distributed Processing... take a look into that. There's some interesting possibilities. How does QNX map system resources? What nodes take priority? Figuring that out is no different from figuring out the distance/location of processing nodes/Playbooks in an environment that is meant to be shared.

    Consider the situation where there are two or more monitors, all sharing the same desktop.. The desktop is spread amongst, say, three monitors. You run a game on it, that game view is spread out to all those monitors. No camera required. All that is required is a central processing source, whether that is local or remote. And that is what QNX is about. Distributed processing.
    Last edited by BennyX; 12-10-13 at 05:55 PM.
    12-10-13 05:40 PM
  16. BCITMike's Avatar
    Maybe by bouncing signals off each device? By timing each one's response to an ACK? Measuring magnetic proximity to a source? There is no reason for there to be a camera to make this scenario work. If one wanted it to work in a short time and only as a demo, then sure. But in a realistic arrangement, a layout of each device can be mapped virtually, and those devices can respond accordingly. No camera is required.

    Maybe ask QNX themselves. They pioneered Transparent Distributed Processing... take a look into that. There's some interesting possibilities. How does QNX map system resources? What nodes take priority? Figuring that out is no different from figuring out the distance/location of processing nodes/Playbooks in an environment that is meant to be shared.
    Using a playbook or BB10 device lying down on a table, if you think you can time a device to centimeter or less accuracy using acks, or know what device you are bouncing off of, you do not know what you are talking about. I'm just blown away by you calling their design "idiotic" when you don't really understand the issues at play.
    12-10-13 05:57 PM
  17. BennyX's Avatar
    Using a playbook or BB10 device lying down on a table, if you think you can time a device to centimeter or less accuracy using acks, or know what device you are bouncing off of, you do not know what you are talking about. I'm just blown away by you calling their design "idiotic" when you don't really understand the issues at play.
    are you telling me the *only* solution is by using a camera to plot each device's position? Careful of your answer. I will prove you wrong.
    12-10-13 06:03 PM
  18. BennyX's Avatar
    Using a playbook or BB10 device lying down on a table, if you think you can time a device to centimeter or less accuracy using acks, or know what device you are bouncing off of, you do not know what you are talking about. I'm just blown away by you calling their design "idiotic" when you don't really understand the issues at play.
    This is not rocket science. Example: a split-screen multiplayer video game. It's running on one machine. Everyone is in a different position in the game. Somehow things need to be coordinated so that each player feels like they are in a certain place and time in relation to the opponents.
    12-10-13 06:08 PM
  19. BCITMike's Avatar
    are you telling me the *only* solution is by using a camera to plot each device's position? Careful of your answer. I will prove you wrong.
    I am wanting to know how this can be done without a camera. You poo-pooh'd BlackBerry's approach by calling it "idiotic". I have yet to hear how you could implement the same functionality without a camera, or making stuff up.
    12-10-13 07:55 PM
  20. BCITMike's Avatar
    This is not rocket science. Example: a split-screen multiplayer video game. It's running on one machine. Everyone is in a different position in the game. Somehow things need to be coordinated so that each player feels like they are in a certain place and time in relation to the opponents.
    That is COMPLETELY different and very easily implemented. It's much easier to share co-ordinates in a virtual game over blue tooth or wifi, it's another thing to be able to know where the other device is, so that when an image or file "leaves" one device, it "enters" the next device on the edge closest to your device. A created virtual world is not even close to accurately sensing devices around you and the orientation they are in relation to your device (it doesn't sense others, it's told where the others are by the other gamer, which is easy when you can share a common area or point of orientation in a virtual game, but doesn't yet exist in real world unless you start talking about iBeacons or other locating technologies).

    Your example does not match what BlackBerry/Tat did in the playbook/camera demo. Just tell me how it can be done with a playbook or BB10 device that matches what Tat demo'd without use of an external camera. You cannot.

    I think you're thinking of something else and we'll have to leave it at that. I'm talking the functionality that BB demo'd, specifically.
    12-10-13 08:06 PM
  21. BennyX's Avatar
    That is COMPLETELY different and very easily implemented. It's much easier to share co-ordinates in a virtual game over blue tooth or wifi, it's another thing to be able to know where the other device is, so that when an image or file "leaves" one device, it "enters" the next device on the edge closest to your device. A created virtual world is not even close to accurately sensing devices around you and the orientation they are in relation to your device (it doesn't sense others, it's told where the others are by the other gamer, which is easy when you can share a common area or point of orientation in a virtual game, but doesn't yet exist in real world unless you start talking about iBeacons or other locating technologies).

    Your example does not match what BlackBerry/Tat did in the playbook/camera demo. Just tell me how it can be done with a playbook or BB10 device that matches what Tat demo'd without use of an external camera. You cannot.

    I think you're thinking of something else and we'll have to leave it at that. I'm talking the functionality that BB demo'd, specifically.

    RF signal tracking. Every device could be both source and sensor, for best accuracy. Each device tracks all the others, and in that way you can figure out the position of one device. In addition to distance sensing, yaw orientation sensing could be handled by each device's magnetometer. Pitch orientation sensing could be handled by each device's gyroscope. Basically using all three sensors, a map of each device's position could be constructed, not just two-dimensionally like in the TAT demo, but in 3D space.

    No camera required.

    The setup would have to be calibrated, of course, but that wouldn't take much time.
    Last edited by BennyX; 12-11-13 at 03:31 PM.
    12-11-13 11:21 AM
  22. BCITMike's Avatar
    RF signal tracking. Every device could be both source and sensor, for best accuracy. Each device tracks all the others, and in that way you can figure out the position of one device. In addition to distance sensing, yaw orientation sensing could be handled by each device's magnetometer. Pitch orientation sensing could be handled by each device's gyroscope. Basically using all three sensors, a map of each device's position could be constructed, not just two-dimensionally like in the TAT demo, but in 3D space.

    No camera required.

    The setup would have to be calibrated, of course, but that wouldn't take much time.
    Doesn't work that way.
    12-11-13 08:34 PM
  23. BennyX's Avatar
    Doesn't work that way.
    ok how does it work, then? and why doesn't it work 'that way'? There's no technological reason why it couldn't work that way. Why when it's implemented on Playbook does it suddenly become the exception?

    You seem to know enough to conclude that none of my proposals would work. So tell me how you'd do it without a camera. You can't tell me it isn't possible, because it's done every day.

    I don't care if I'm proven wrong, I enjoy learning new things. I'd like to know how you'd do it.
    12-11-13 09:36 PM
  24. BCITMike's Avatar
    RF signal tracking. Every device could be both source and sensor, for best accuracy. Each device tracks all the others, and in that way you can figure out the position of one device. In addition to distance sensing, yaw orientation sensing could be handled by each device's magnetometer. Pitch orientation sensing could be handled by each device's gyroscope. Basically using all three sensors, a map of each device's position could be constructed, not just two-dimensionally like in the TAT demo, but in 3D space.

    No camera required.

    The setup would have to be calibrated, of course, but that wouldn't take much time.
    ok how does it work, then? and why doesn't it work 'that way'? There's no technological reason why it couldn't work that way. Why when it's implemented on Playbook does it suddenly become the exception?

    You seem to know enough to conclude that none of my proposals would work. So tell me how you'd do it without a camera. You can't tell me it isn't possible, because it's done every day.

    I don't care if I'm proven wrong, I enjoy learning new things. I'd like to know how you'd do it.
    Unless the device has radar, you won't be determining distance. You assume they have generic front ends, when they have wifi and bluetooth in a SoC. Neither are intended to determine distance. Neither can easily determine distance with accuracy. You are talking speeds of light vs device processing time.

    I didn't say it can be done without camera. That's my point. You don't understand how tricky this is.
    12-11-13 11:16 PM
  25. bizdudePB's Avatar
    It would be great if something similar to what was done in the Playbook Meeting Concept vid (http://www.blackberrycool.com/2012/0...g-concept-app/) could be productized, even without knowing exactly where every device is in relation to the other.

    I am wondering if TDP is a differentiator or even game changer for BB10. Not being a developer much anymore, I want to start with knowing if TDP is even usable by developers outside of BB. If so, I would be willing to put up at least $500 USD (maybe more) to award a developer or team to build even a simple app, and make the code available as an example to other developers.

    I'm thinking of a camera app, where, after pairing / connecting (maybe WiFi Direct? Or even just on the same network) the camera app on one phone now sees the camera(s) on the other phone, and can take a picture from that camera.

    It might be that this is too hard for some reason, so if there's any other app idea, let me know.

    I'm serious about the $500 award too. My User ID here is also a twitter handle (bizdudePB), or email me at nr_in_calgary@yahoo.ca

    Let's try to work together and see if we can find a new great thing with BB10.
    12-17-13 12:12 PM
33 12

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