[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Also using QNX makes more sense than ever. HWs are much faster, many cores, faster everything and QNX got much-much better, now with own hypervisor supporting various linux flavours, including Android.

There is a difference in automotive hardware and software and that need by smartphone users....

Sorry but it's not that easy, and you ought to know that by now. BlackBerry, Nokia, Microsoft and now Huawei.... it takes BILLIONS of dollars and tens of thousands of man hours to build and maintain a mobile operating system. The work done on BB10 is outdate by seven years.... And QNX efforts in Automotive just don't translate over to smartphones.

[Emaderton3]

Not to mention the lack of app availability and support that are likely needed to use a phone in the business world.

[app_Developer]

Mainstream phone users don’t have a need to run multiple OSes on top of a hypervisor. They would much rather use one OS and not have to carry a car battery around.

The hypervisor case is for cars where we have enormous batteries and the draw from a controller is a rounding error.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Mainstream phone users don’t have a need to run multiple OSes on top of a hypervisor. They would much rather use one OS and not have to carry a car battery around.

The hypervisor case is for cars where we have enormous batteries and the draw from a controller is a rounding error.

Yeah the idea of a hypervisor on a phone sounds pretty cool.... but in the end what would it get the end user? What problems would it solve? What problems would it create?

I wish there was more than iOS and Android in the mobile space, but there isn't. I know there is Sailfish, several Linux distributions, several ASOP based ROM, the once huge potential of KaiOS... and of course Huawei's hail marry. But as I said really only iOS and Android....

[conite]

Yeah the idea of a hypervisor on a phone sounds pretty cool.... but in the end what would it get the end user? What problems would it solve? What problems would it create?

I wish there was more than iOS and Android in the mobile space, but there isn't. I know there is Sailfish, several Linux distributions, several ASOP based ROM, the once huge potential of KaiOS... and of course Huawei's hail marry. But as I said really only iOS and Android....

Huawei's new OS turned out to be all hype. It's just Android.

[app_Developer]

Yeah the idea of a hypervisor on a phone sounds pretty cool.... but in the end what would it get the end user? What problems would it solve? What problems would it create?

I wish there was more than iOS and Android in the mobile space, but there isn't. I know there is Sailfish, several Linux distributions, several ASOP based ROM, the once huge potential of KaiOS... and of course Huawei's hail marry. But as I said really only iOS and Android....

Just to be clear, you don't need a hypervisor to run 2 (or more) OSes on your device. You need an hv to run two or more OSes (and/or multiple independent instances of the same OS) *at the same time*.

At the *same time*, competing for CPU/GPU/radios and keeping all of the these awake. That's not possible in a modern phone without active cooling and without a massive battery.

And again what is the use case? I have no idea.

[Sporkguy3]

I can't wait for Linux phones. I am trying to get Google out of my life as much as possible. I might even be willing to give up a PKB to do so. Why not Apple? I don't want them in my life either.

[conite]

I can't wait for Linux phones. I am trying to get Google out of my life as much as possible. I might even be willing to give up a PKB to do so. Why not Apple? I don't want them in my life either.

Install LineageOS on a device that is compatible then. It's a full Android OS without Google. Grab a Pixel 4a.

A Linux phone would be a complete dead end. At the end of the day, we still need to use some apps.

[Sporkguy3]

Pardon my ignorance, but how can an android OS be without Google? Also, isn't a pixel a phone made by Google?

[conite]

Pardon my ignorance, but how can an android OS be without Google? Also, isn't a pixel a phone made by Google?

The open-source version of Android has no Google on it at all. Google takes that and then adds all of their services and apps to it. LineageOS is based on the open-source version.

Ironically, the Pixel series of phones is one of the easiest to install a custom ROM on.

https://lineageos.org/

[Sporkguy3]

The open-source version of Android has no Google on it at all. Google takes that and then adds all of their services and apps to it. LineageOS is based on the open-source version.

Ironically, the Pixel series of phones is one of the easiest to install a custom ROM on.

https://lineageos.org/

So, and sorry for the ignorance, Google doesn't develop Android?

[app_Developer]

So, and sorry for the ignorance, Google doesn't develop Android?

Lineage is built on the open source parts of Android, the AOSP. And AFAIK everything they add is itself open source. There are no dependencies on any Google services or a Google account. So if people are worried about tracking, there isn't those Google services to worry about (unless you choose to use those services on your own of course)

Now obviously if you go use the web browser and login to FB or IG or whatever, and enable cookies, you're on your own. Also if you use apps you have the normal exposure there. That's true even if you use BB10. If you download an app that tracks your location while you are using it and sends it back home, then that app will happily do that on BB10 or Google's Android dist or Samsung's Android list or iOS or Lineage. It doesn't matter. That's always going to be between the app, the user, and the permissions you give that app.

[app_Developer]

So on what we mean by Linux here:

Obviously Android is built on the Linux kernel. So when people say "Linux on a phone", and they don't mean Android, then what they mean is some other set of a windowing system, UI framework, process and service mgmt, services like location, messaging, interapp communications, a UI/app for the user to launch other apps, a framework for animations, etc. etc. etc. Lots of different things that you have to put on top of Linux.

None of those things are provided by Linux. None of them. So you have to choose or build all these other pieces to make a completely usable OS for a phone. Android (the AOSP) provides many of those pieces and most importantly, they are well optimized for the particular use case of a phone, and they are extremely well optimized to work well with Linux.

That is a big deal, and this why I am extremely skeptical of any other Linux-based phone distributions that aren't based off Android as their starting point.

- phones have very limited battery
- phone CPUs, GPUs, and radios MUST micro sleep constantly and must control their operating frequencies carefully because otherwise they would overheat. Linux laptops and Linux desktop mostly have fans or very large/heavy heatsinks. Phone cannot have either of these things.
- phones cannot swap to their flash memory for very long because the type of memory used in phones is totally different class than what you have in an SSD on your laptop or desktop. Android has a completely unique process and service model (different from any other linux based OS) for this very important reason (among others)*

* Btw, this is also a key reason why iOS and macOS are two different operating systems even though they share many bits (including the kernel). They have totally different process models.

[conite]

So, and sorry for the ignorance, Google doesn't develop Android?

As I explained, the core of Android is open source. Although Google technically owns it, it has no Google services or apps. That was part of the agreement when they first purchased it almost 15 years ago.

Lineage takes that open source core of Android and adds their own open source apps and features to it. They then make it available for you to download and install on a select number of devices.

Google also takes that open source core and adds their own apps, features, and services to it. They then put it on their Pixel phone.

[Thud Hardsmack]

So, and sorry for the ignorance, Google doesn't develop Android?

LOL everybody got overly wordy without answering the question. Yes - Google develops and maintains AOSP android.

[conite]

LOL everybody got overly wordy without answering the question. Yes - Google develops and maintains AOSP android.

Google is ultimately responsible for the code, yes. But AOSP considers contributions from any source, not just Google.

"Anyone who is interested in exploring and contributing to Android can use the AOSP resources. Anyone can join the mailing lists, ask questions, contribute patches, report bugs, look at submitted patches, and use the tools."

[Thud Hardsmack]

Google is ultimately responsible for the code, yes. But AOSP considers contributions from any source, not just Google.

"Anyone who is interested in exploring and contributing to Android can use the AOSP resources. Anyone can join the mailing lists, ask questions, contribute patches, report bugs, look at submitted patches, and use the tools."

Right, that still leaves Google as the heavy lifter.

[conite]

Right, that still leaves Google as the heavy lifter.

But the point is, that it's still 100% open-source.

[Thud Hardsmack]

But the point is, that it's still 100% open-source.

No, the point wasn't whether it's open source but that he was curious if Google is a developer, to which the answer is in fact, yes, and is the primary.

[conite]

No, the point wasn't whether it's open source but that he was curious if Google is a developer, to which the answer is in fact, yes, and is the primary.

Well, I think he asked if Google WAS the developer. I was trying to explain the difference between the AOSP bits and the rest.

I didn't want to leave him thinking he should have any concerns regarding the AOSP portion regarding data harvesting.

[Sporkguy3]

Certainly data harvesting is the chief concern. I understand that Google will have my info whether or not I use their services, they are the most powerful company in the world and have near limitless access to our data, but I am just trying to give them as little help as possible.

[conite]

Certainly data harvesting is the chief concern. I understand that Google will have my info whether or not I use their services, they are the most powerful company in the world and have near limitless access to our data, but I am just trying to give them as little help as possible.

If you use LineageOS along with a VPN, FOSS apps, an ad and tracker-blocker, and the Tor browser, you'd be pretty bullet-proof.

[app_Developer]

If you use LineageOS along with a VPN, FOSS apps, an ad and tracker-blocker, and the Tor browser, you'd be pretty bullet-proof.

I would add that the vpn (provided it’s a good one) and the app choice, and the ad blockers and all that stuff is where the protection is coming from. The operating system makes very little difference. And a “good” OS is still a bad situation if you haven’t solved the rest of the problems

So basically if you are worried about privacy, forget about the OS and focus on choosing the much more important things that @conite is pointing out.

[conite]

I would add that the vpn (provided it’s a good one) and the app choice, and the ad blockers and all that stuff is where the protection is coming from. The operating system makes very little difference. And a “good” OS is still a bad situation if you haven’t solved the rest of the problems

So basically if you are worried about privacy, forget about the OS and focus on choosing the much more important things that @conite is pointing out.

The poster seems concerned about the built-in Google harvesting that comes with Google Android (and the framework itself) - which is why I was suggesting LineageOS.

I'm certainly ok with the quid-pro-quo, and can manage my Google privacy settings to my satisfaction - but many can't get around it from the start.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Well, I think he asked if Google WAS the developer. I was trying to explain the difference between the AOSP bits and the rest.

I didn't want to leave him thinking he should have any concerns regarding the AOSP portion regarding data harvesting.

Also very important.