06-01-14 05:37 PM
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  1. BlueStreak67's Avatar
    As some others have said, Blackberry still makes a profit but Foxconn carries the inventory risk. If you're a shareholder, you'll know that this is good news but also a sacrifice. Blackberry lost enormous amounts of cash because of unsold inventory, but did however own 100% profit on the device. In this new setup, Foxconn probably makes 90% of the profit but also carries the inventory risk. In laymen's terms, Blackberry makes a small amount on each device sold but doesn't lose any money if no devices sell. (this isn't 100% accurate because you still have to develop the software and support it, but mostly true none the less).

    I think it's a good idea in the short term, especially if they're trying to become cash flow positive again without taking huge risks that could leave them bankrupt. Blackberry could have just as easily produced 10 million z3's at let's say 100 a piece which would be $ 1 billion, if only half of them sold in a quarter, that's a loss of 500 million. Considering BBRY only has like 2 billion left in cash, this would demolish their share price even more. Also, Foxconn is much better with distribution and hardware margins. I think this is all about getting more devices out there while making some money on the side just to prove there is hardware demand.
    I am curious where people get their numbers, are you some kind of business insider?

    I don't know of any industry that has 10 points margin when they are one-step from the manufacturing process. There isn't 10 middlemen involved here. It must be less than self-produced phones, but this has to be a bit healthier to their bottom line, although also very dependent on volume sold too.
    Omnitech likes this.
    05-18-14 08:04 AM
  2. Patrick Pierobon's Avatar
    Anybody can sell out of a phone if they only have three in stock. Lets wait to see the actual numbers that have been shipped and sold.
    05-18-14 08:29 AM
  3. Wilsonia Goldens's Avatar
    Merchants increasing prices is a damn good sign

    BB10 - call blocking please, BBM - too many to list
    Merchants increasing prices pisses me off! Great for the competition bad for Blackberry!
    05-18-14 08:31 AM
  4. Carterbits's Avatar
    But the media is reporting that only a few people cued up to buy them

    BlackBerry Z3 gets lukewarm response in Indonesia - The Times of India

    I love this quote:

    "I prefer a phone that functions like a mini computer, and I don't see that with BlackBerry,"

    If only BlackBerry had a vision to be a mobile computing platform and could release software where you could, for instance, splice together a movie or presentation on the go.
    I think you were being sarcastic, but just in case, check out BlackBerry Express:

    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webst...ntent/36979011

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:33 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Merchants increasing prices pisses me off! Great for the competition bad for Blackberry!
    I think the initial prices were at a discount and now they're selling full price.


    #believeinfilm
    05-18-14 08:35 AM
  6. neteng1000's Avatar
    I think the initial prices were at a discount and now they're selling full price.


    #believeinfilm
    No, just some of the "pre orders"

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:36 AM
  7. neteng1000's Avatar
    Anybody can sell out of a phone if they only have three in stock. Lets wait to see the actual numbers that have been shipped and sold.
    Common man! Maybe just 1??

    We don't know how many, but we know it's more than 3, more than 100, more than 1000. It?s several, several thousands. Maybe tens of thousands. Either way, it's off to a good start. They need to keep up the momentum.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:41 AM
  8. neteng1000's Avatar
    "Sold out" and "muted response" seem diametrically opposed to each other. Here's hoping for the former!
    Muted response by who? BlackBerry themselves posted it. What exactly are you referring to?

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:42 AM
  9. Koepman's Avatar
    My crystal ball says... 68.200 units.

    Visit my Channel C00121417 ?
    05-18-14 08:50 AM
  10. anon(8865116)'s Avatar
    I am curious where people get their numbers, are you some kind of business insider?

    I don't know of any industry that has 10 points margin when they are one-step from the manufacturing process. There isn't 10 middlemen involved here. It must be less than self-produced phones, but this has to be a bit healthier to their bottom line, although also very dependent on volume sold too.

    Um, it's just a pretty general assumption going off of typical licensing deals. There's a general sense of reasonableness if you've seen a lot of licensing case studies. I'm not sure where you're getting your industry facts from but a great example is microsoft's deal with Nokia (before they bought them). Nokia also manufactures their own phones from what I remember so that speaks to your last point about only being one party away from the manufacturing.

    I would assume blackberry is getting more than 10 dollars but I can almost certainly say it's not above 30% of profit. Blackberry does own most of the patents on the physical device which differs from the nokia/microsoft deal but I think that's offset by the risk Foxconn adopts for a company that's perceived as dying. The only thing I can think of is that they might have a sliding scale type of licensing deal where if they sell >100 million dollars, they might equalize the profit margin sharing after that point. That's a big maybe though.

    The fact that Blackberry wants to keep manufacturing its own high end devices tell one of two things, 1. They won't be able to sell to Governments if it's perceived that China manufacturers all the phones (see Huawei) and the fact that the Canadian government stepped in to block the lenovo deal. 2. They don't want to give up their high margins on devices but they also don't want to lose marketshare as well. It's probably both points actually.
    Last edited by mtthwmtthw; 05-18-14 at 08:58 AM. Reason: adding in the concession that BBRY/foxconn deal differs from microsoft/nokia deal because microsoft had to pay for nokia's hardware patents
    05-18-14 08:53 AM
  11. BlueStreak67's Avatar
    It seems like a lot of assumptions without many facts to back it up.

    I realize everyone has their opinion was just curious what you were basing your numbers off of.

    Posted via CB10
    RyanGermann likes this.
    05-18-14 09:26 AM
  12. The Big Picture's Avatar
    It seems like a lot of assumptions without many facts to back it up.

    I realize everyone has their opinion was just curious what you were basing your numbers off of.

    Posted via CB10
    If demand exceeds supply, prices go up. If the merchants are doing this its a good sign.

    Its simple economics.

    But yes we wont know the full story till hard numbers are released.

    But I guess its safe to say the initial response is that the Z3 is not a flop. Which is great news considering how BB10 devices have been received historically.

    BB10 - call blocking please, BBM - too many to list
    neteng1000 likes this.
    05-18-14 09:34 AM
  13. BruvvaPete's Avatar
    [QUOTE=mtthwmtthw;10369482]Um, it's just a pretty general assumption going off of typical licensing deals. There's a general sense of reasonableness if you've seen a lot of licensing case studies... [/qoute]

    People need to stop using assumptions like they're facts. Cite sources.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    RyanGermann and epark88 like this.
    05-18-14 09:53 AM
  14. tickerguy's Avatar
    Price rises in a free market when demand exceeds supply.

    That's all we know right now; we don't know how much demand or how much supply, just that demand was greater than supply.

    It is, nonetheless, a positive indication.
    Omnitech, dolco and southlander like this.
    05-18-14 10:05 AM
  15. anon(8865116)'s Avatar
    [QUOTE=BruvvaPete;10369631]
    Um, it's just a pretty general assumption going off of typical licensing deals. There's a general sense of reasonableness if you've seen a lot of licensing case studies... [/qoute]

    People need to stop using assumptions like they're facts. Cite sources.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    Wow that's rude. No one will ever know the "facts" because it's a private contract between foxconn and Blackberry. As far as assumptions go, I have no idea why you'd take offense to something like that. If you don't like the assumption then make your own but I tried to actually substantiate my claim. I posted a link that breaks down the licensing deal of Microsoft and Nokia which is about as close as you're going to get to the foxconn and blackberry deal that's publicly available. As per their deal, Microsoft was making $10 dollars on each nokia device sold which is way LESS than 10% considering those devices are priced way higher than the z3. As far as I'm concerned, the facts are: Z3s are sold out, the licensing deal is private, the ER is in a month. So what? It's a licensing deal get over it. The z3 isn't going to bring blackberry back into fame but it has the potential to change the perception of Blackberry's financial status going forward.



    Why would you even care if it's assumption? Good for blackberry for contributing right to their bottom line with no risk.
    JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    05-18-14 10:15 AM
  16. BruvvaPete's Avatar
    [QUOTE=mtthwmtthw;10369702]

    Wow that's rude...
    Sorry you're offended by me saying not to use assumptions like they're facts and asking for tangible evidence. My bad.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    Omnitech likes this.
    05-18-14 10:26 AM
  17. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Is it selling like hotcakes?
    JeepBB and techvisor like this.
    05-18-14 10:33 AM
  18. edu3110's Avatar
    That's greats news for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 10:40 AM
  19. anon(8865116)'s Avatar
    [QUOTE=BruvvaPete;10369749]

    Sorry you're offended by me saying not to use assumptions like they're facts and asking for tangible evidence. My bad.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    I'm sorry you're interpreting my assumptions as facts and then contributing literally nothing to the thread. You'd know, if you read past the first sentence...
    05-18-14 10:42 AM
  20. bspence87's Avatar
    [QUOTE=BruvvaPete;10369749]

    Sorry you're offended by me saying not to use assumptions like they're facts and asking for tangible evidence. My bad.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    Assumption or fact, it is still positive media perception for BlackBerry, which is certainly something we can all get behind.

    Let's keep the vibes positive, we're all here for the same thing!
    05-18-14 11:10 AM
  21. anon1727506's Avatar
    [QUOTE=bspence87;10369919]

    Assumption or fact, it is still positive media perception for BlackBerry, which is certainly something we can all get behind.

    Let's keep the vibes positive, we're all here for the same thing!
    Positive right now, IF it turns out this is just like the sellouts that the Z10 experienced... it will be worse for BlackBerry in the long run. So I would think that Chen would be very careful in how they exploit early sales numbers.

    Posted via Android CrackBerry App
    05-18-14 11:48 AM
  22. BruvvaPete's Avatar
    [QUOTE=bspence87;10369919]

    Assumption or fact, it is still positive media perception for BlackBerry, which is certainly something we can all get behind.

    Let's keep the vibes positive, we're all here for the same thing!
    Agreed. Moving on.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    05-18-14 12:08 PM
  23. gokulesh's Avatar
    I think part of the success here was BlackBerry actually tried using the M-word.

    Edit: I am not sure if we are allowed to say it, but what the hell? MARKETING!
    Off you go to the penalty box. How dare you say the M word in the same sentence as BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 12:10 PM
  24. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    The one difference between this and the z10/q10 sellouts is that retailers were not being reported as raising the price. In this case they are so let's hope that is a differing and positive sign.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 12:14 PM
  25. BlueStreak67's Avatar
    [QUOTE=BruvvaPete;10369631]
    Um, it's just a pretty general assumption going off of typical licensing deals. There's a general sense of reasonableness if you've seen a lot of licensing case studies... [/qoute]

    People need to stop using assumptions like they're facts. Cite sources.

    @BruvvaPete :Channel: C0012176F. Live well
    Agreed, please define a "typical" licensing deal.
    05-18-14 12:27 PM
265 12345 ...

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