01-16-15 05:36 AM
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  1. trsbbs's Avatar
    It relates to the topic by: one of the proposed reasons here for BlackBerrys not selling is that carriers don't carry them or provide them in their discounted "contract" price.
    So I was saying that this is the norm everywhere else.
    If someone is willing to buy a certain brand they will.

    And no I don't hate America or Americans.

    Posted via CB10
    Most carriers in the U.S. have or will soon offer an alternate plan for getting the phone. So they are not all that different.
    You can do the subsidized way or the buy it outright and finance it here or just buy it out right with cash.

    But we won't buy it if we can't walk in and get it. Too many other offerings that you can go see, touch and take home.

    "Norm" is also a very relative term. The norm always changes in tech.

    Without carrier support I don't see BlackBerry handsets ever climbing back into the sunlight. BlackBerry has abused them too many times for the carriers to be super helpful right now.

    Chen isn't helping this either with his current attitude.

    As far as this guy getting demoted I hope it's not just Chens ego. The poor guy had crap to try and peddle.


    BlackBerry hates America!
    01-06-15 05:30 PM
  2. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Most carriers in the U.S. have or will soon offer an alternate plan for getting the phone. So they are not all that different.
    You can do the subsidized way or the buy it outright and finance it here or just buy it out right with cash.

    But we won't buy it if we can't walk in and get it. Too many other offerings that you can go see, touch and take home.

    "Norm" is also a very relative term. The norm always changes in tech.

    Without carrier support I don't see BlackBerry handsets ever climbing back into the sunlight. BlackBerry has abused them too many times for the carriers to be super helpful right now.

    Chen isn't helping this either with his current attitude.

    As far as this guy getting demoted I hope it's not just Chens ego. The poor guy had crap to try and peddle.


    BlackBerry hates America!
    Spot on! Sadly though, Chen's ego is beginning to show.

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-15 05:57 PM
  3. birdman_38's Avatar
    Sadly though, Chen's ego is beginning to show.
    I disagree. He's taking care of business.

    Chen does whatever he can to keep the stock price up.
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    01-07-15 11:06 AM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You think the world revolves around the USA and their carriers... the other 90% percent of the world (asia / Africa / south America) don't even have the option to buy their phones on contract, all full price outright.
    And we're supposed to be the poor countries Lol
    now the us buyers get the same treatment as the rest of the world.

    Posted via CB10

    And this has what to do with the topic? Just getting your U.S. bashing in?


    BlackBerry hates America!
    Yes and no.
    The US doesn't really have a good international image, it shouldn't be news tbh.

    Now, leaving that aside, let's take the essence of what the user said:

    In countries without phone contracts, the off contract price for most BlackBerry's (like the Classic) is through the roof and uncompetitive.

    Leaving the US criticism behind, it's basically a post saying, that the head of sales was rightly demoted so.
    Probably also a post implying that BlackBerry doesn't understand local markets anymore.
    01-07-15 12:04 PM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I disagree. He's taking care of business.

    Chen does whatever he can to keep the stock price up.
    I disagree...
    Through having the phone division in its current form, Chen is actively destroying shareholder value in the now and the future.
    Maxxxpower and anon1727506 like this.
    01-07-15 12:10 PM
  6. birdman_38's Avatar
    Through having the phone division in its current form, Chen is actively destroying shareholder value in the now and the future.
    What changes do you envision for the handset division? How do they optimize this part of the business?
    01-07-15 12:14 PM
  7. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    What changes do you envision for the handset division? How do they optimize this part of the business?
    I agree with you that he is doing what he needs to be done. He came in and cancelled projects that were frankly not going to go anywhere (Cafe series, anyone?) and saved the company from more HW write-downs. He's done better with managing inventory both that he makes himself and that Foxconn makes.

    In terms what I think he should do moving forward? It isn't really about prioritizing as much as it is streamlining the HW business. Before Chen came in, HW was all over the place, and to some extent it still is. We have PKB phones still with and without the BELT as an example. They need to come to one design standard for PKB phones. Then they need to decide how many types of devices a year they really wan/need to make. I would say one high end and one low end touch and PKB, plus one risky Passport style device. They need to have their HW launches at the same time every year. Maybe March/April for PKB, and September for touch. This at least gives the appearance that they have a plan/roadmap and know what they are doing and where they are going. Frankly, as it stands now, I have no clue where they are going and doubt if they even do. There is so much doubt if we will ever see another touch device despite 99.9% of the market using this type of device now. There shouldn't be this kind of mystery. Everyone knows the iPhone 6s will be launching next September. BlackBerry needs to introduce that kind of certainty, even to their enterprise clients if that is all they are focusing on.
    bbz10fan123 likes this.
    01-07-15 05:02 PM
  8. trsbbs's Avatar
    Yes and no.
    The US doesn't really have a good international image, it shouldn't be news..
    Depends on who you ask and where they are from.

    BlackBerry hates America!
    01-07-15 06:28 PM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    You think the world revolves around the USA and their carriers... the other 90% percent of the world (asia / Africa / south America) don't even have the option to buy their phones on contract, all full price outright.
    And we're supposed to be the poor countries Lol
    now the us buyers get the same treatment as the rest of the world.

    Posted via CB10
    US contracts on average usually cost more money, no? Also, US customers can buy all these phones outright but most decide not to. Taking the cheaper option upfront makes sense to most.

    If we were forced to buy devices outright, we wouldn't have to pay for the subsidy which is included in the contract for the next 2 years. Contracts would be cheaper.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    01-07-15 07:04 PM
  10. avt123's Avatar
    Yes and no.
    The US doesn't really have a good international image, it shouldn't be news tbh.
    The government, not so much the citizens.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    01-07-15 07:06 PM
  11. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    The government, not so much the citizens.
    Regardless of whether the US is popular or not, it does not change the bearing of its influence on the smartphone market. Many fans are unable to separate their personal opinion of the US with the dynamics of the smartphone market and this leads to many unrealistic claims and expectations on these forums.

    Europe is too fragmented a market and China is not a free/fair market where a foreign tech company, Blackberry, will ever be allowed to gain traction. Every other nation is a combination of not enough wealth and/or too small a population. Finding success among a large set of these minor markets require an impractical amount of capital and effort.

    This means the United States is the only meaningful market for Blackberry. If not the American consumers then the American enterprise and if not that hopefully the American government or military. The United States always was and likely always will be the sole factor in Blackberry's financial success.
    avt123, LuvULongTime and TGR1 like this.
    01-07-15 07:50 PM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    Regardless of whether the US is popular or not, it does not change the bearing of its influence on the smartphone market. Many fans are unable to separate their personal opinion of the US with the dynamics of the smartphone market and this leads to many unrealistic claims and expectations on these forums.

    Europe is too fragmented a market and China is not a free/fair market where a foreign tech company, Blackberry, will ever be allowed to gain traction. Every other nation is a combination of not enough wealth and/or too small a population. Finding success among a large set of these minor markets require an impractical amount of capital and effort.

    This means the United States is the only meaningful market for Blackberry. If not the American consumers then the American enterprise and if not that hopefully the American government or military. The United States always was and likely always will be the sole factor in Blackberry's financial success.
    I wholeheartedly agree. The loss of the US market is the reason BlackBerry is where it is today. If they completely lose the rest of the US market, IMO they have absolutely no chance of sticking around.
    LuvULongTime, TGR1 and anon1727506 like this.
    01-07-15 08:28 PM
  13. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Regardless of whether the US is popular or not, it does not change the bearing of its influence on the smartphone market. Many fans are unable to separate their personal opinion of the US with the dynamics of the smartphone market and this leads to many unrealistic claims and expectations on these forums.

    Europe is too fragmented a market and China is not a free/fair market where a foreign tech company, Blackberry, will ever be allowed to gain traction. Every other nation is a combination of not enough wealth and/or too small a population. Finding success among a large set of these minor markets require an impractical amount of capital and effort.

    This means the United States is the only meaningful market for Blackberry. If not the American consumers then the American enterprise and if not that hopefully the American government or military. The United States always was and likely always will be the sole factor in Blackberry's financial success.
    So true. The US market is at the epicentre of everything. Android and iPhone devices first won mind share in the US, which then made them aspirational in the rest of the world. Maybe this is the one and only market BB needs to focus ALL of their energy on. Forget about all the lost market share in Indonesia, as well as the potential in India and China (as you already stated). Those markets won't make BB any money anyway as $50 Androids are the new Curve + BIS. And maybe they don't even bother battling with Android. Maybe the one and only fight is with Apple in enterprise first, and then consumer if enterprise is successful. Why can't BB one day work their way back to being the Prada to Apple's Gucci in the smartphone war? Obviously they have a long way to go. But if that is not the plan for HW then what? They don't have the resources to fight a global battle. And looking back, Apple never really fought a global battle either. They focused on the US and reaped the rewards of the ripple effect it had on the rest of the world.
    01-07-15 09:34 PM
  14. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    You're all very much onto it in these recent posts.

    Some of the best thinking I've seen around CB in ages in these last few posts.

    Spot on!!

    Posted via CB10
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    01-08-15 12:39 AM
  15. anon1727506's Avatar
    I disagree. He's taking care of business.

    Chen does whatever he can to keep the stock price up.
    I agree... He has gone out of his way to make BlackBerry appear like they have a lot of future potential, without putting out much in the way of details.

    But it's pretty apparent that BlackBerry hasn't really been too interested in actually selling smartphones. The Z3 was tip-toed into a few markets where it was 60% - 100% overpriced. The Passport only got 200K devices built for the launch, so they weren't really expecting too much from it. The Classic maybe the right device for enterprise (if enterprise still needs a BlackBerry), but it isn't an attempt to impress anyone.

    And then there are all the existing BB10 owners that are holding 1 year or 2 year old devices... with little hope of a true upgrade if they wanted one.

    Yeah this guy didn't have much to work with... add in the total lack of marketing outside of stickers on a race car. But then I don't think smartphone hardware is a long term product line for BlackBerry.

    Anyway, more cuts need to be made to account for the drop in revenues - unless they are POSITIVE that the Classic is going to sell millions... lot of people are going to need to either take pay cuts, or be phased out to allow lower cost people to take their place. The bottom has already been cut, now the top is going to have to be trimmed a little more.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    01-13-15 08:04 AM
  16. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I agree... He has gone out of his way to make BlackBerry appear like they have a lot of future potential, without putting out much in the way of details.

    But it's pretty apparent that BlackBerry hasn't really been too interested in actually selling smartphones. The Z3 was tip-toed into a few markets where it was 60% - 100% overpriced. The Passport only got 200K devices built for the launch, so they weren't really expecting too much from it. The Classic maybe the right device for enterprise (if enterprise still needs a BlackBerry), but it isn't an attempt to impress anyone.

    And then there are all the existing BB10 owners that are holding 1 year or 2 year old devices... with little hope of a true upgrade if they wanted one.

    Yeah this guy didn't have much to work with... add in the total lack of marketing outside of stickers on a race car. But then I don't think smartphone hardware is a long term product line for BlackBerry.

    Anyway, more cuts need to be made to account for the drop in revenues - unless they are POSITIVE that the Classic is going to sell millions... lot of people are going to need to either take pay cuts, or be phased out to allow lower cost people to take their place. The bottom has already been cut, now the top is going to have to be trimmed a little more.
    None of the phones that have launched have been Chen's except the revised Q20 aka Classic. The Z3/Foxconn deal was from the Heins era, as was the Passport. Those are the only three things we saw. Depending on who you believe, a lot of other products were canceled. So this means one of two things; they are going to wind down HW, or Chen is refocusing HW. The odds are on a wind down. But if they decide to refocus let's hope they get serious. They need something big to change the game or at the very least get people's attention. In my mind a game changer would be a dual android bb10 phone where the work partition of balance is bb10 and personal is android skinned like bb10. This means the current android runtime would need to come out of bb10. Basically this phone would offer the best of both worlds to highly security conscious enterprises while also catering to users thirst for consumer apps and games. Something that wouldn't be a game changer but would get people's attention would be a highly spec competitive phone that would sell $50 cheaper on contract and $100 cheaper off contract than an equivalent Android and iPhone. This would be BlackBerry's plea for folks to give them a chance. A lot of important apps are there via Amazon. Enough for people to give the phones a look assuming they are cheaper. And with blend, BlackBerry plays nicely with everyone so they can fit into any competing ecosystem.

    Posted via CB10
    01-13-15 03:28 PM
  17. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I will add one more thing ; there is this curious opinion that US carriers have no interest in carrying any BlackBerry device. I personally don't think this is the case. BlackBerry hasn't really made a device compelling enough to excite carriers and consumers. The z30 was launched during an uncertain time, and the passport and classic cater to very niche markets. There is no doubt in my mind that if BlackBerry went to the carriers with an aggressively priced spec competitive phone they would get the carriers attention. Bb10 has come a long way, and the amazon deal has allowed them to secure key consumer apps that they can also highlight to carriers (translation: they won't be stuck trying to sell these phones due to an immature OS and lack of apps and games).

    Posted via CB10
    01-13-15 03:40 PM
  18. birdman_38's Avatar
    None of the phones that have launched have been Chen's except the revised Q20 aka Classic. The Z3/Foxconn deal was from the Heins era, as was the Passport. Those are the only three things we saw. Depending on who you believe, a lot of other products were canceled. So this means one of two things; they are going to wind down HW, or Chen is refocusing HW. The odds are on a wind down.
    I have yet to see anything that proves Chen is excited about hardware potential.
    01-13-15 06:20 PM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I have yet to see anything that proves Chen is excited about hardware potential.
    Agreed. But this makes sense considering his background is not HW related. I got the sense he wanted to close up HW the day he took over but was heavily cautioned against doing so by his team. Hopefully MWC tells us all we need to know.
    01-13-15 08:42 PM
  20. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    What changes do you envision for the handset division? How do they optimize this part of the business?
    I was slightly busy...
    Well, that's the Billion dollar question Birdman

    And I'll give you an actual answer, when I have the time tonight.

    But there is 1 thing Chen could do, to basically appease everyone in a certain kind of way.
    He could finally tell the market, if BlackBerry is serious about handsets or not.

    Even if a lot of people are kind of trying to forget it since Chen took over, there is still a huge amount of uncertainty revolving around BlackBerry.
    Nobody knows if those guys actually want to stay in the hardware business for real.

    If I as a company, will have to buy new phones, and I am not sure which phones I should buy, getting BlackBerries with the possibility of BlackBerry exiting the hardware business in less than 4 quarters, isn't exactly appealing.

    So the first step would be to bring certainty. Something like a credible roadmap. With phones that aren't obsolete before they launch (looking at the Rio and the Classic here).
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    01-16-15 05:36 AM
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