09-28-13 08:26 PM
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  1. sevoman's Avatar
    ....well let's see, when your manufacturing partners bail on you, and your sales partners (T Mobile) bail on you, and then your consumers bail on you... one can conclude that you are doing something wrong.
    marksthespot60 likes this.
    09-27-13 10:26 PM
  2. PeterC4's Avatar
    The guy shorted the stock....he'd come a runnin'....
    09-27-13 11:24 PM
  3. Roo Zilla's Avatar

    Why did they think it would be better to make big margins on tiny volumes, instead of lowering the price to compete in the midrange?
    Because they're named after a fruit, they think they should get the same consideration as other famous companies also named after fruit.
    09-28-13 01:00 AM
  4. uniquest's Avatar
    Too much bad news.

    I guess it's probably not a good idea anymore to go out and buy a Q10 right now? If they implode there goes the great qwerty keyboards ... sad.
    09-28-13 01:29 AM
  5. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Too much bad news.

    I guess it's probably not a good idea anymore to go out and buy a Q10 right now? If they implode there goes the great qwerty keyboards ... sad.
    What's the lifespan of a phone? 2 years? I'd buy one if it were cheap enough. Here ATM they are over $600 so I won't buy one until they hi about $300.
    09-28-13 01:37 AM
  6. richardat's Avatar
    Possibly you're right. My initial objection was to this post


    Of course it's 'good' in the sense that they aren't able to sell devices so why would they want to be making them, but this just felt a lot like spin doctoring to me. Replace the word 'good' with the word 'tragic' in the above and you have a more accurate sentence, IMO.

    I've read so much unreal fanboy crapola on here in the past 72 hours, I'm probably just overloaded. Weekend away from CB is indicated.
    It's true, and if Sean's perspective is so irrational that he feels he is framing his judgment properly (and I think that's possible), then he is at least sincere - which is why i didn't bother responding - I think the reframing is spin of the most inane kind, and ineffective on almost anyone.

    "hey you look down"
    "my grandmothers spine has deteriorated further and she can't even walk anymore because it hurts her too much, so she is stuck in bed"
    "alright!!! That's good news!!!"
    "huh?"
    "it's a good thing she's staying in bed, if it hurts her to get out, then it's good she's an invalid!"
    (a beating ensues)
    09-28-13 02:28 AM
  7. SK122387's Avatar

    Of course it's 'good' in the sense that they aren't able to sell devices so why would they want to be making them, but this just felt a lot like spin doctoring to me. Replace the word 'good' with the word 'tragic' in the above and you have a more accurate sentence, IMO.
    Yes. It's "good" in the sense that stopping production is the best possible thing to be doing in this awful situation they find themselves in.

    It is terrible that a manufacturing partner wants to bail on what used to be a tech giant.

    It is terrible that they have a bunch of great devices that haven't sold.

    You know the situation is dire when it's a "good" option to stop production because it doesn't make sense to make any more phones.

    That's all I was saying.




    Posted via CB10
    09-28-13 05:35 AM
  8. SK122387's Avatar
    It's true, and if Sean's perspective is so irrational that he feels he is framing his judgment properly (and I think that's possible), then he is at least sincere - which is why i didn't bother responding - I think the reframing is spin of the most inane kind, and ineffective on almost anyone.

    "hey you look down"
    "my grandmothers spine has deteriorated further and she can't even walk anymore because it hurts her too much, so she is stuck in bed"
    "alright!!! That's good news!!!"
    "huh?"
    "it's a good thing she's staying in bed, if it hurts her to get out, then it's good she's an invalid!"
    (a beating ensues)
    I still don't think you get it, "Richard."

    Under normal circumstances, it's not a GOOD thing for a company to decide to stop making phones.

    These are not normal circumstances. This is like... the emergency exit is open on an airplane at 37,000 feet. Is the plane still flying? Yes but it's a very, very bad situation.

    So, in this very bad situation, where pretty much everything that could have gone wrong for BlackBerry10 DID GO/is going wrong for BlackBerry10, stopping the manufacturing is a "good" thing.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-13 05:41 AM
  9. M65c02's Avatar
    Ok so BlackBerry is dead or going to be dead. Should we make it worse and be negativity or move on to another forum?
    If one likes! The biggest gathering of people--and not always real friends--for celebrating a majority of people's lives is at their death.

    I don't know where all this emotion that a few posters display for a company derives: It certainly isn't for BB. This is a blog, and as such, it is a forum for the rational and irrational, experienced and inexperienced, BB user and non BB user, shareholder and non-shareholder, BB employed or not, etc. All sorts of motives and reasons are common to these self-help type, and/or investor declared, blogs on a given company (or concept). For those inexperienced, that want to practice "Tony Robbins' like self healing or inspiration, letting emotion or lottery fever control, or simply (somehow) misreading all the obvious signs since (at the very latest) June, treat this BB debacle as a lesson in life about use, or lack thereof, sound principles of judgment. ... Save the emotion for real funerals--albeit that is not for the deceased either.

    Not likely, Blackberry would have gone to Jabil with a contract for them to build "X" number of blackberries, with an option to order "Y" additional blackberries. Order "X" has been filled and the supplier paid, but Blackberry did not exercise the option to purchase "Y" additional units. The production line has been sitting idle with Jabil not making any money. So they have to fish or cut bait.

    It would be expensive for Blackberry to get another supplier which would add to the costs of the units. . . .And what if Apple has already contacted you to make some ipods. Which contract would you take?
    Yes, pretty simple here. But the "option", as well as current contract, is almost certainly a two-way take or pay contract. Jabil, indeed, is looking for a minimum order run (and growth) that BB cannot or will not (or can no longer) guarantee. Alternatively, but with same outcome, BB (or Jabil) never conceived that such weak sales numbers would occur but one (or both) exercised their real, or de facto, option not to continue in a relationship. I wouldn't get too caught up in the semantics of a press release, regardless of what might otherwise appear as clear language.

    It is more likely that BB purposefully left this door open (i.e., no multi year guarantee but w/minimum run) knowing that it might be sold (and if OS10 was successful it could easily re-negotiate) than for Apple (or Google) to interfere with a contract. Anyone with more than five years of mgmt. experience would have anticipated prior to contracting the possible pressure, or moral suasion, of competitors such as Apple/Google. Frankly, I don't like any of these scenarios as good stories ... then again, this is our errant child we're talking about.

    It is a mean world. The Blackberry OS and hardware are pretty good. Especially compared to an iphone. Blackberry is down on the ground. Its competitors will keep kicking until Blackberry is dead.
    True, except that BB has been on the ground and in a slow bleed since 2011--and was prior walking with a terminal disease since 2008. Everyone comes to a funeral--not all out of respect and with pure thoughts.
    No way. Too many here have a been telling me no way it will happen. There's too many people here that like the z10...way too many if truth be told
    100% correct. Last count, something like 2376. (Many of these are "fibbers" but let's not quibble.) Now, to that we add another (almost) 4mm OS10 users that don't participate in CB. Okay, now we're only about 15mm short for this year.

    My friend, if you are serious with your comments, listen/read everything in this blog not for what you want to hear but for what makes sense and follows some principle of reason.

    I agree that price is a huge part of BB's problem. They would gain way more traction if they lowered their prices! $400 for an unlocked and no contract phone? I have lots of friends that have lost or broke their Galaxy S4s or iphone 5s that are still on contract so they are using some 3 year old Craigslist phone. Should BB go to an online sales format?
    It is all over but the crying for these guys.
    The Q5 was supposed to be a new Curve for emerging markets like Indonesia, India, Africa etc. but the mad geniuses at Blackberry top management decided to make it just a little bit cheaper than the Q10. ...

    Why did they think it would be better to make big margins on tiny volumes, instead of lowering the price to compete in the midrange? BB10 is a new ecosystem, for goodness sake, so it needs all the device volume it can get to get more consumers and developers onboard.
    These concepts were discussed many times on CB and especially during the Z's (U.S.) intro. back in March. Clearly there is/was the temptation to skim the early buyers--(1) loyal BB rollover users that would pay most anything, 2) consumers that buy everything especially products at intro, 3) tech geeks with money, 4) etc. Nothing new about this pricing model ... it's the same as used by Apple, most droid phones, and most any new tech product touting itself as (r)evolutionary. Unfortunately, this strategy could only muster less than 2-3mm OS10 phones sold. It was clear by the end of April that OS10 phones were not selling but BB (I guess) decided that it could not cut the Z price nor introduce the Q for less because it would interfere with consumer perceptions?!?! Many (somehow) were convinced that the Q10 would, I guess, be an immediate success and 10mm would be sold. (Of course, there was virtually no material marketing to go with these intros.)

    Introduce to skim and then lower the price when the next product is near intro. Unfortunately, BB had no grasp of what it takes to get market share and, the even more difficult task, of winning back market share against its backdrop of such ugly market perception. In fairness, after high price intro, the BBs also had glutted the marketplace and then held by distributors that had themselves already paid a high price on the BB promise. And, unless BB went back into their distribution channel and offered additional incentives, BB had lost control midstream of its pricing point practice. (Indeed, more to this thread's point, BB never was able to relieve an inventory overage.)

    As for the BB legacy phones in emerging markets, it has amazed me in my travels the sheer numbers of BB sightings in the third world. Unlike the OS10 that no one sees anywhere in the World, the older BB's appear to proliferate in the 3rd world. I think that this is do, in part to a positive BB perception still held although now gone in the affluent countries of BB and, obviously, a very cheap price. People had viewed as status the owning of a BB and as phones reduced in price, these 3rd world people could afford a BB. However, I don't see this as being/having been a long term opportunity for BB to make much profit but if the economies of scale still exist for legacy devices, it may make sense to continue! (BTW, Nokia abandoned.) Branding can be funny, you take advantage of a great imaged product by reducing price (and often quality) to boost sales but this is often short lived before you end up with a second tier image and no greater (or less) profits. Therefore, I would question that there was any profitable future for the Q5 regardless of pricing, as its fate was already determined by the lack of OS10 success.

    So, yes, my vote would have been for pricing closer to $100 intro with 2 year contract attaching $20/mth and hopeful of getting 10mm OS10 Z/Q10 devices out the door by the end of September. But, also recall (of know) that it was a terrible OS10 at release, returns, and poor press that likely would have killed BB regardless of intro. Perhaps if the OS10 available today as the latest 10.2 leak had been ready in March along with the Apps now available and a price $100 bucks (on ave) under what the IPhone or Samsung sold, BB might have sold enough quantity to make a profit and keep the lights on. (An added benefit might have been to keep the Jabil and carrier relationships alive too.) These, however, are a lot of ifs and we can't be sure even with the advantage of hindsight!!

    It's true, and if Sean's perspective is so irrational that he feels he is framing his judgment properly (and I think that's possible), then he is at least sincere - which is why i didn't bother responding - I think the reframing is spin of the most inane kind, and ineffective on almost anyone.

    "hey you look down"
    "my grandmothers spine has deteriorated further and she can't even walk anymore because it hurts her too much, so she is stuck in bed"
    "alright!!! That's good news!!!"
    "huh?"
    "it's a good thing she's staying in bed, if it hurts her to get out, then it's good she's an invalid!"
    Yes, okay, let's give Sean some credit as sincere but simply grasping at straws to somehow produce a bright side to matters.
    Last edited by M65c02; 09-28-13 at 07:07 AM.
    09-28-13 06:21 AM
  10. Etios's Avatar
    The manufacturing unit will anyways be stopped soon, there is no demand for BB10 phones and BB7 phones are being sold at negligible profits, so Z30 will be the last phone and after the manufacturing contract for Z30 is over we can expect closure of handset division as no buyer will keep it running and making big losses.
    09-28-13 10:34 AM
  11. turbodmac's Avatar
    Yes. It's "good" in the sense that stopping production is the best possible thing to be doing in this awful situation they find themselves in.

    It is terrible that a manufacturing partner wants to bail on what used to be a tech giant.

    It is terrible that they have a bunch of great devices that haven't sold.

    You know the situation is dire when it's a "good" option to stop production because it doesn't make sense to make any more phones.

    That's all I was saying.




    Posted via CB10
    I got this the first time you said it. Some didn't...

    This whole thing is a real shame. Personally, I don't really care about BB as a company (other than the jobs lost) but I do appreciate BB10 and it will be a terrible loss if no one picks up this ball and runs with it. We all know that hardware is really secondary, it can run on anything, a good OS is what matters. It would suck to be back to 2 OS choices ( no I don't count WP). I say let BB disappear into the enterprise side and sell the OS to someone who can move units...
    momofteme and SK122387 like this.
    09-28-13 10:41 AM
  12. mset's Avatar
    What's the lifespan of a phone? 2 years? I'd buy one if it were cheap enough. Here ATM they are over $600 so I won't buy one until they hi about $300.
    I'm also going to grab one, but probably off my local buy/sell site, for a lot less than $300. By the way, there a post up here on the homepage about how BBRY is now selling unlocked phones on their website (US only). In the comments section they say Amazon is selling the Z10 for $290 and eBay has new ones for less than that.

    BlackBerry now selling unlocked Z10's and Q10's direct | CrackBerry.com
    09-28-13 02:28 PM
  13. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I'm also going to grab one, but probably off my local buy/sell site, for a lot less than $300. By the way, there a post up here on the homepage about how BBRY is now selling unlocked phones on their website (US only). In the comments section they say Amazon is selling the Z10 for $290 and eBay has new ones for less than that.

    BlackBerry now selling unlocked Z10's and Q10's direct | CrackBerry.com
    Yeah, I saw that. Have you seen the crazy prices? Blackberry have no idea. Even the reselling on their own website is outsourced.
    09-28-13 08:26 PM
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