09-28-13 07:26 PM
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  1. SK122387's Avatar
    So in the example I gave, you would say

    "Oh well, that fender had a ding in it anyhow, so needing to get it fixed is actually a good thing"?
    No. That is a very muddled example, to be honest.

    I would say, "Jabil, I understand that we, BlackBerry, no longer manufacture a wide variety of devices like we always have. We now manufacture three BlackBerry10 devices, and one of them are selling. We have too many of them. It is understandable that you no longer view us as a valuable partner, because we have too many unsold devices and are probably looking to get out of the consumer hardware business for a while. Thank you for your partnership, and should things turn around at some point in the future, perhaps we can explore another venture together."
    09-27-13 03:12 AM
  2. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Wow, I'm surprised that a current supplier of a customer (especially their second largest customer) would say such a thing to the media.

    I mean, I work in automotive and we are major supplier to the big 3 (Ford, GM and Chrysler) + Honda/Toyota and we never would have the audacity to state publically that we are thinking of dropping one of our customers; even in 2008 when GM and Chrysler almost went belly up. If this is true, it is extremely unprofessional for a company to discuss customer relations with the media when they're still doing business with them.
    A competitor to Blackberry dangled a lucrative contract in front of Jabil and told them to say that?
    09-27-13 03:21 AM
  3. kevinnugent's Avatar
    A competitor to Blackberry dangled a lucrative contract in front of Jabil and told them to say that?
    Here we go.
    SK122387, cwalt2166, aniym and 1 others like this.
    09-27-13 03:23 AM
  4. vicks80's Avatar
    Ok so BlackBerry is dead or going to be dead. Should we make it worse and be negativity or move on to another forum?

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-13 03:26 AM
  5. SK122387's Avatar
    A competitor to Blackberry dangled a lucrative contract in front of Jabil and told them to say that?
    Right. Because BlackBerry's competitors, Google and Apple, are so threatened by BlackBerry right now, that they felt the need to call up Jabil and offer them cash to make a statement like that.
    schmeat and Bsbudd like this.
    09-27-13 03:33 AM
  6. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Quick question...

    Would the manufacturer have to pay a fine for breaking contract?

    Would this reduce the cost if 'exiting the hardware business ' for whoever buys bb?



    Posted via CB10
    Not likely, Blackberry would have gone to Jabil with a contract for them to build "X" number of blackberries, with an option to order "Y" additional blackberries. Order "X" has been filled and the supplier paid, but Blackberry did not exercise the option to purchase "Y" additional units. The production line has been sitting idle with Jabil not making any money. So they have to fish or cut bait.

    It would be expensive for Blackberry to get another supplier which would add to the costs of the units. Think about it. You are a components manufacturer. Blackberry comes to you and asks you to build a small run of units. You know the capital costs of making the tools and manufacturing equipment., You know there may be no more orders after the first order so you will build in a big profit margin to make the retooling worthwhile. And what if Apple has already contacted you to make some ipods. Which contract would you take?
    09-27-13 03:35 AM
  7. mset's Avatar
    No. That is a very muddled example, to be honest.
    Not sure how it's muddled. In my example, a driver has a dinged bumper which needs fixing, and a certain series of events results in the fender having to be fixed. That means the necessity for the repair is a 'good thing', right? No matter what the series of events that led up to the damage which necessitated the repair?

    You can see how important the answer is, given that you stated 'The fact that Jabil is taking steps to write down the cost of terminating their business with BBRY is good news for BBRY'. In this case, it doesn't matter about the series of events that led up to the writedown and the loss of a supplier. It's still a good thing. Correct?
    Last edited by mset; 09-27-13 at 04:19 AM.
    09-27-13 03:38 AM
  8. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Right. Because BlackBerry's competitors, Google and Apple, are so threatened by BlackBerry right now, that they felt the need to call up Jabil and offer them cash to make a statement like that.
    It is a mean world. The Blackberry OS and hardware are pretty good. Especially compared to an iphone. Blackberry is down on the ground. Its competitors will keep kicking until Blackberry is dead.
    09-27-13 03:38 AM
  9. SK122387's Avatar
    Not sure how it's muddled. In my example, a driver has a dinged bumper which needs fixing, and a certain series of events results in the fender having to be fixed. That means the necessity for the repair is a 'good thing', right? No matter what the series of events that led up to the damage which necessitated the repair?

    You can see how important the answer is, given that you stated 'The fact that Jabil is taking steps to write down the cost of terminating their business with BBRY is good news for BBRY'. In this case, it doesn't matter about the series of events that led up to the writedown and the loss of a supplier. It's still a good thing. Correct?
    I'm talking about now, not what led to why their partnership is ending (BlackBerry being on the decline). There's nothing BlackBerry can do about their excess devices. All they can tell Jabil to do is to keep making them or stop making them.

    I don't care about Jabil's write down. That's their bottom line, not BlackBerry's. BlackBerry's bottom line is the one that will continue to worsen if they keep having Jabil manufacture phones that aren't selling, leading to yet another write down (which we will probably now never hear about).

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-13 05:11 AM
  10. SK122387's Avatar
    It is a mean world. The Blackberry OS and hardware are pretty good. Especially compared to an iphone. Blackberry is down on the ground. Its competitors will keep kicking until Blackberry is dead.
    Haha I know it is a mean world. And I agree, the OS is good. I just don't think Google or Apple have anything to worry about with BlackBerry, or that they would waste their time doing something like that.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-13 05:13 AM
  11. codehut's Avatar
    I'm talking about now, not what led to why their partnership is ending (BlackBerry being on the decline). There's nothing BlackBerry can do about their excess devices. All they can tell Jabil to do is to keep making them or stop making them.

    I don't care about Jabil's write down. That's their bottom line, not BlackBerry's. BlackBerry's bottom line is the one that will continue to worsen if they keep having Jabil manufacture phones that aren't selling, leading to yet another write down (which we will probably now never hear about).

    Posted via CB10
    Reading this thread, I think you and mset are really saying the same thing. You're just looking at the little picture, he's looking big picture. In other words, while cutting the relationship with manufacturing now is a good thing because it would otherwise just add to the pile of unsold devices, the fact that BB is in a position where they have to stop manufacturing all together because they're not selling devices is a bad thing.
    MERCDROID, turbodmac and chr1sny like this.
    09-27-13 05:29 AM
  12. mset's Avatar
    ..the fact that BB is in a position where they have to stop manufacturing all together because they're not selling devices is a bad thing.
    Possibly you're right. My initial objection was to this post

    BlackBerry not manufacturing as much/at all given the overstock of devices is a good thing.
    Of course it's 'good' in the sense that they aren't able to sell devices so why would they want to be making them, but this just felt a lot like spin doctoring to me. Replace the word 'good' with the word 'tragic' in the above and you have a more accurate sentence, IMO.

    I've read so much unreal fanboy crapola on here in the past 72 hours, I'm probably just overloaded. Weekend away from CB is indicated.
    Last edited by mset; 09-27-13 at 06:00 AM.
    chr1sny and richardat like this.
    09-27-13 05:46 AM
  13. texazzpete's Avatar
    It is a mean world. The Blackberry OS and hardware are pretty good. Especially compared to an iphone. Blackberry is down on the ground. Its competitors will keep kicking until Blackberry is dead.
    Tell me again how BlackBerry hardware is superior to the equivalent iPhones.

    As for software, BB10 is paying for the sins of BBOS. Not everyone gets a second chance. Microsoft is clawing back with WP8 and only hanging there because of their money and because Nokia's CEO was actually an intelligent fellow unlike Thorsten. He realized that if you cannot mix it up with the big boys, grab as much share as you can at the lower end to maximize marketshare and attract development.

    Heins on the other hand was insane enough to price the Z10 and Q10 on par and higher than the MUCH more powerful and compelling Galaxy S4 and HTC One, even though it was obvious to anyone with a brain that charging so much more for so much less hardware was never going to go down with the consumers. The next moronic move was to price the Q5 in a way that it was NEVER going to be able to achieve it's primary function: stop the massive haemorrhage of customers in the BB bases in the emerging countries to cheaper and increasingly powerful Android devices.

    Everyone clinging to the Apple story. Palm never got a second chance. Motorola did because Google bought them. Who's buying BlackBerry? an investor with little stomach for the consumer side.

    Realistically, there is precious little hope remaining for survival of the consumer devices side of BlackBerry. Also no hope for 'mobile computing'.
    09-27-13 05:57 AM
  14. NYC10065's Avatar
    Realistically, there is precious little hope remaining for survival of the consumer devices side of BlackBerry. Also no hope for 'mobile computing'.
    Mobile computing is impossible without the apps and the BB10 app ecosystem is too pathetic to even call what you do on BB10 mobile computing.
    09-27-13 06:36 AM
  15. NYC10065's Avatar
    The Blackberry OS and hardware are pretty good. Especially compared to an iphone. Blackberry is down on the ground. Its competitors will keep kicking until Blackberry is dead.
    I won't debate whether BB10 is better or worse than iOS/Android since so much of it is personal preference and the app ecosystem debate has gone on and on already but pretending that BBRY hardware is somehow superior to the latest iPhone or Android devices is folly.

    And given BBRY's marketshare, I am not sure its "competitors" even know that it exists or even care enough to waste even an ounce of energy to kick it any more than BBRY is kicking itself (more like shooting itself in the foot).
    09-27-13 06:40 AM
  16. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Part of right sizing BBRY will have to be to reduce manufactoring capacity to meet demand. There is no point in paying to have the capacity to make 5 Million Z30s, if you are only going to sell 500,000 - 1 Million. If you write down a $1 Billion in inventory, you aren't going to be making things for a while and I'm sure BBRY has probably sent warnings to their various supply partners of this. Honestly, I think Jabil is just getting out in front of what they've been told behind closed doors.
    09-27-13 07:19 AM
  17. anon1727506's Avatar
    Looking back a the ER now, the number of devices sold is bad. But it just seems like the write down was a little premature, and will in fact hinder future sales.

    I think if BlackBerry were really wanting to stay in the hardware business, some type of promotion (rebates, BOGO....) should have been used to increase sales and move the stock... before writing off the "expected" profits from those devices. I think BlackBerry is only interested in selling themselves at this point...
    09-27-13 07:31 AM
  18. fatkiid's Avatar
    promotion (rebates, BOGO....)
    That'll do wonders for the brand.

    Last time I BOGO'ed something was at PayLess Shoes with my moms.
    09-27-13 08:05 AM
  19. Oglon3r's Avatar
    And yet another overreaction by cb forum members and the tech media.

    Posted via CB10
    I know all this bad reputation holy fok....
    I for one will be glad the moment it all goes private and we can finally move forward.
    09-27-13 08:37 AM
  20. ankush77's Avatar
    i think the side effects of bb going haywire is resulting into the supporting companies to bleed
    09-27-13 09:47 AM
  21. M65c02's Avatar
    Worst attempt at spin....ever?: "Didn't sell any - thank goodness we don't have to make anymore - even better, the people who make it for us are moving on!" .... Whew.
    Uh.....yeah....no new products, just the old ones....which didn't sell. yay! If I didn't know the posters tendencies, I'd swear this was supposed to be parody!
    . . . the biggest significance is the public admission, and blunt talk. To just say it outright like that, signifies very clearly that the manufacturer strongly believes it is over, and that they don't think there will any continuing business with Blackberry. Granted they are talking to their shareholders so they want to be clear about BB's struggles and what they intend to do about it- still, there wasn't even the slightest attempt to sugar coat it. Ironically, of all people, this should impact the very people who are denying this is a big deal - the rest of us aren't that surprised by the news itself.
    Agreed, sometimes it's hard to discern the logic but, then, we may wrongly presume that there is some logic to be found.

    [SK, you said:} "BlackBerry not manufacturing as much/at all given the overstock of devices is a good thing"

    The point richardat was making [and, in part, listed above] is that this is completely untrue, and represents the worst type of spin doctoring. Jabil announces that they're going to take a huge charge to write off the cost of shutting down their relationship with BBRY, and your response is that 'it's a good thing'. BBRY loses a key manufacturing partner and your spin is that:
    This is not a good thing. No aspect of this is a good thing for BBRY. That's the point.
    Yeah.. I still think a cease in manufacturing because they have too many unsold devices is a good thing. Does it make for a pretty headline in the news? No way. But if it's best for Jabil and BlackBerry has no immediate need for them, then how's it a problem?? If there is a flood in the bathroom, and no one's cleaning it up, why are you keeping the faucet on?
    I'll jump in on this last analogy. We/BB might want to leave the faucet on to assure that there is not a total freeze up, and things are getting pretty frigid right now. Alternatively, we will try to turn down that faucet--but never off--while doing a slow mop up. You're underestimating the damage that this press does to our already very bloodied BB. You may also be underestimating the cost of finding a new partner at sometime in the future. Now if Fairfax is determined simply to flip all assets very quickly--and I don't think this is possible without first some "renovation" but who knows, then by all means stop the bleeding and use the cash on hand to tidy things to find some source of immediate income and otherwise (for now) flip only the non-performing BB assets.

    You're either trolling me or, respectfully, you've lost some perspective on this. I suspect the former.

    If you blow your children's college fund on crystal meth and then, without your wife's knowledge, you take a second mortgage on the house and blow that on crystal meth and heroin, and then, desperate for drug money, you decide to sell your car for cash and on the way to the lot you run over a pedestrian and dent your fender, would you say: "Oh well, that fender had a little ding in it anyhow, so needing to get it fixed is actually a good thing"?
    Why do I get the impression that this scene relates somehow to a "Breaking Bad" episode. ... Mset, also my vote was for the latter, "lost perspective." LOL

    No. That is a very muddled example, to be honest.

    I would say, "Jabil, I understand that we, BlackBerry, no longer manufacture a wide variety of devices like we always have. We now manufacture three BlackBerry10 devices, and one of them are selling. We have too many of them. It is understandable that you no longer view us as a valuable partner, because we have too many unsold devices and are probably looking to get out of the consumer hardware business for a while. Thank you for your partnership, and should things turn around at some point in the future, perhaps we can explore another venture together."
    One problem is that the BB legacy devices, of course, are outselling all of the OS10 devices combined--at least if/when we trace what finally ends up in the end consumer's hands. Another thing that we can't comment on without more info is the nature and structure of the contract between BB/Jabil. Timing is bad, in fact horrendous, but we don't know if there were certain contractual triggers that BB and/or Jabil had to pull this month or be at a greater disadvantage in the future.

    Haha I know it is a mean world. And I agree, the OS is good. I just don't think Google or Apple have anything to worry about with BlackBerry, or that they would waste their time doing something like that.
    Yes, true, this would be entirely too messy to chance interference with a contract in any way, shape, or form when there already is the smell of a nearby carcass.

    Possibly you're right. My initial objection was to this post:

    Of course it's 'good' in the sense that they aren't able to sell devices so why would they want to be making them, but this just felt a lot like spin doctoring to me. Replace the word 'good' with the word 'tragic' in the above and you have a more accurate sentence, IMO.

    I've read so much unreal fanboy crapola on here in the past 72 hours, I'm probably just overloaded. Weekend away from CB is indicated. . . . [Edited Earlier mset Quote follows:] The new retort from the [blindly] faithful is 'If you don't like BBRY, what are you doing here'? News flash, [a few CBers are here to make] sure that all the bizarre justifications from fan bois post are countered with [common sense, some rational thought, and checks on reality]. It's taking a team of us to keep up.
    I had some trouble, or maybe fun, keeping up here but, alas, we've come full circle. The final comment by mset joins well with an earlier one that I took the liberty to edit and splice here. Together they act as a pretty good summary and conclusion. Thanks!!
    Last edited by M65c02; 09-29-13 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Typo: Breaking Bad not Breaking Bag
    richardat and mset like this.
    09-27-13 11:56 AM
  22. tonyrenier's Avatar
    Does this mean BlackBerry is not paying the bills? I don't see the advantage by stating you're gonna benefit by dropping your second largest client.
    I think it's important to point out that Paczkowski has had a hard-on for BlackBerry for as long as I've been reading the financial "tech" press. He seems to troll the nether world to find disparaging articles to quote. I really felt that he was intentionally trying to bring BlackBerry down for some sort of personal agenda. In the end he may have been right but he hastened the outcome.
    09-27-13 05:33 PM
  23. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Tell me again how BlackBerry hardware is superior to the equivalent iPhones.

    As for software, BB10 is paying for the sins of BBOS. Not everyone gets a second chance. Microsoft is clawing back with WP8 and only hanging there because of their money and because Nokia's CEO was actually an intelligent fellow unlike Thorsten. He realized that if you cannot mix it up with the big boys, grab as much share as you can at the lower end to maximize marketshare and attract development.

    Heins on the other hand was insane enough to price the Z10 and Q10 on par and higher than the MUCH more powerful and compelling Galaxy S4 and HTC One, even though it was obvious to anyone with a brain that charging so much more for so much less hardware was never going to go down with the consumers. The next moronic move was to price the Q5 in a way that it was NEVER going to be able to achieve it's primary function: stop the massive haemorrhage of customers in the BB bases in the emerging countries to cheaper and increasingly powerful Android devices.

    Everyone clinging to the Apple story. Palm never got a second chance. Motorola did because Google bought them. Who's buying BlackBerry? an investor with little stomach for the consumer side.

    Realistically, there is precious little hope remaining for survival of the consumer devices side of BlackBerry. Also no hope for 'mobile computing'.
    I agree that price is a huge part of BB's problem. They would gain way more traction if they lowered their prices! $400 for an unlocked and no contract phone? I have lots of friends that have lost or broke their Galaxy S4s or iphone 5s that are still on contract so they are using some 3 year old Craigslist phone.

    Should BB go to an online sales format?

    It is all over but the crying for these guys.
    09-27-13 05:41 PM
  24. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    The Q5 was supposed to be a new Curve for emerging markets like Indonesia, India, Africa etc. but the mad geniuses at Blackberry top management decided to make it just a little bit cheaper than the Q10. That's insane when the Z10 and Q10 are priced sky high to begin with. That's also why those old BB7 devices are still selling. You're right in that Nokia was smart enough to design a whole range of Lumia devices, from the flagship 1020 all the way down to a bargain basement 620 or 520.

    Why did they think it would be better to make big margins on tiny volumes, instead of lowering the price to compete in the midrange? BB10 is a new ecosystem, for goodness sake, so it needs all the device volume it can get to get more consumers and developers onboard.

    All water under the bridge now, I suppose.
    09-27-13 08:40 PM
  25. Bigruss8's Avatar
    I know all this bad reputation holy fok....
    I for one will be glad the moment it all goes private and we can finally move forward.
    The move forward will be a full exit of the consumer market, discontinuation of their hardware business and the breakup of the company into different parts.
    09-27-13 09:01 PM
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