10-23-13 06:11 AM
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  1. europolska00's Avatar
    You are disagreeing wether 1080p screens are more or less efficient than 720p phones. And I agree that is up to debate. But he doesn't give an analogy. He gave an example. An example where manufacturers prey on customers by exaggerating specifications and convince them bigger is always better. And I agree it isn't always. When increased benefit is less than the increased cost, you're paying too much for what you're getting.

    Would you pay $100 more for a phone with 500ppi over a 400ppi phone even though your eye can't see the difference? Bigger might be better, just sometimes not worth it.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 05:09 PM
  2. europolska00's Avatar
    Again, the new 1080p displays are objectively better than their old 720p counterparts.

    Using the word "gimmick" you imply that this isn't the case.
    Read the link I gave you, and inform yourself.

    CPU, GPU and battery performance are non-issues in real life.
    The benchmarks of smartphones with a 1080p screen clearly show that, as they are outperforming their 720p predecessors under every possible metric.

    So yes, your analogy is still not the best under the sun.

    Posted via CB10
    You are disagreeing wether 1080p screens are more or less efficient than 720p phones. And I agree that is up to debate. But he doesn't give an analogy. He gave an example. An example where manufacturers prey on customers by exaggerating specifications and convince them bigger is always better. And I agree it isn't always. When increased benefit is less than the increased cost, you're paying too much for what you're getting.

    Would you pay $100 more for a phone with 500ppi over a 400ppi phone even though your eye can't see the difference? Bigger might be better, just sometimes not worth it.

    Cernica is right, you're not understanding his point. He's talking about apples and you are talking about oranges.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 05:14 PM
  3. wincyUt's Avatar
    I didn't want to be mean or anything, and a 720p display isn't bad only because it doesn't have 1080p.
    If that was the message that came through, I do have to apologise.

    I'll try to explain it better, what I meant:
    For me it's a question of the market segment a phone is aimed at.
    When I pay 600-700 Euro/$ for a flagship phone, I expect hardware that is top-notch.

    The Lumia 820 is a pretty nice device, but by today's standards, it would never be worth 500$.

    And this is my big gripe with the Z30 right now.
    The price for that phone is obscene, only going by the hardware components it uses.
    A flagship phone, not released by Apple, should never be so poorly specced as the Z30 is.

    One of the often seen, but foul excuses by the hardcore BlackBerry fans was, that WP doesn't have 1080p support as well, so why should BlackBerry have it?
    Well, that excuse just died a very quick death.

    Posted via CB10
    Tell me something, if you had the greatest screen spec but a lousy or mediocre OS, would you pay $600 - $700? You make it sound like screen specs is everything.
    You may be surprised that for some people the OS is more important. I will pay top dollars for top-notch OS anytime over screen specs. Yes, that's why I'm loving my Z30 for productivity.

    Posted via CB10
    endevour likes this.
    10-17-13 07:57 PM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Are any of these 1080p windows phones on the market? Did blackberry say they weren't going to make 1080p phones?
    MS saying that they'll support 1080p and bigger displays with their WP OS means that these devices are soon to come, and that there was a need to do it.

    BlackBerry said, that all future touchscreen-only devices will use the 720p resolution.
    This is documented for devs, and has been said by BlackBerry themselves.

    Since this is the case and there hasn't been any mention from BlackBerry that they will change their guidelines, we can conclude that they are behind the competition right now, just because MS gave an official timeline for the 1080p.

    It was already said before that it'll come, but the definite timeline is the actual news here.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 08:31 PM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You are disagreeing wether 1080p screens are more or less efficient than 720p phones. And I agree that is up to debate. But he doesn't give an analogy. He gave an example. An example where manufacturers prey on customers by exaggerating specifications and convince them bigger is always better. And I agree it isn't always. When increased benefit is less than the increased cost, you're paying too much for what you're getting.

    Would you pay $100 more for a phone with 500ppi over a 400ppi phone even though your eye can't see the difference? Bigger might be better, just sometimes not worth it.

    Cernica is right, you're not understanding his point. He's talking about apples and you are talking about oranges.

    Posted via CB10

    No, the screen specs aren't everything, but your comparison is extremely bad...

    And the ironic part of this circumstance, is that you actually make my point, without realising it.

    I will demonstrate you why:
    In BlackBerry's case, more exactly the model called Z30, the scenario you describe does not apply at all.

    The truth is rather, that I pay more for a Z30, to get less.
    This is the actual problem.

    The Galaxy S4, the Sony Xperia Z1, the HTC One and the LG G2 for example all have better specs than the BlackBerry Z30, but either cost less, or the same.
    All of the Android devices above, use a 1080p display, have a better camera, have a better processor and a better ecosystem.

    But this is only about well known manufacturers.
    What about the Chinese smartphone manufacturers for example?
    1080p, quadcore CPU, a 13 megapixel camera and 2 GB of RAM can start at 240$, for an Umi X2 (whatever that is... It exists.)
    http://www.gizchina.com/2013/02/25/t...es-from-china/

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Best-...phones_id44018

    All are either less expensive or cost the same.
    In this situation, the value proposition of the Z30 is worse.

    As has been shown, your comparison makes non-sense, and is wrong.
    The question isn't, if I would pay 100$ more, to have a 500 ppi display.
    The real question is the following:
    Why should I pay more, to get 295 ppi instead of 441 (Z30 vs Galaxy S4)?

    Nokia/MS have understood, that not having a 1080p is a problem.
    This is the reason why they implement the support for this type of resolution, with their next GDR3 update.
    Since most of WP's marketshare comes from the low-to-midrange, this is a clear sign, that MS intends to have a bigger marketshare in the high-end.

    A flagship that has a price of 600$ has to excel in pretty much every area.
    If a smartphone isn't capable of doing that, then this poses the question of why even to bother buying a flagship?
    If I do not need all these high-end specs, then I should buy a mid-range phone.

    All of that, is linked to the decision of MS to give their phone OS the ability to support 1080p screens.

    To finish, I will tell you that there may be people who like BB10, and I am one of them, but they sure weren't able to sustain BlackBerry's sales.
    And if consumers are buying devices with full-hd displays in droves, then you should probably give the market what it wants.

    MS does comprehend this conjuncture.
    BlackBerry still says the following:
    "The screen size for the BlackBerry Z10 smartphone is 768 x 1280 pixels. However, future BlackBerry smartphones will have the following screen sizes:

    All-touch smartphones: 720 x 1280 pixels (16:9 aspect ratio)
    Smartphones with a physical keyboard: 720 x 720 pixels (1:1 aspect ratio)"
    http://developer.blackberry.com/desi...een_sizes.html

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 09:03 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    You are disagreeing wether 1080p screens are more or less efficient than 720p phones. And I agree that is up to debate. But he doesn't give an analogy. He gave an example. An example where manufacturers prey on customers by exaggerating specifications and convince them bigger is always better. And I agree it isn't always. When increased benefit is less than the increased cost, you're paying too much for what you're getting.

    Would you pay $100 more for a phone with 500ppi over a 400ppi phone even though your eye can't see the difference? Bigger might be better, just sometimes not worth it.

    Cernica is right, you're not understanding his point. He's talking about apples and you are talking about oranges.

    Posted via CB10
    Other companies are putting in higher res screens at the same cost as the Z30. Also better processors and cameras too. So the question really should be should BlackBerry be charging more for less than what the competition does, not would people pay more for BlackBerry with a better screen than the Z30.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and Etios like this.
    10-17-13 10:00 PM
  7. europolska00's Avatar
    No, the screen specs aren't everything, but your comparison is extremely bad...

    And the ironic part of this circumstance, is that you actually make my point, without realising it.

    I will demonstrate you why:
    In BlackBerry's case, more exactly the model called Z30, the scenario you describe does not apply at all.

    The truth is rather, that I pay more for a Z30, to get less.
    This is the actual problem.

    The Galaxy S4, the Sony Xperia Z1, the HTC One and the LG G2 for example all have better specs than the BlackBerry Z30, but either cost less, or the same.
    All of the Android devices above, use a 1080p display, have a better camera, have a better processor and a better ecosystem.

    But this is only about well known manufacturers.
    What about the Chinese smartphone manufacturers for example?
    1080p, quadcore CPU, a 13 megapixel camera and 2 GB of RAM can start at 240$, for an Umi X2 (whatever that is... It exists.)
    http://www.gizchina.com/2013/02/25/t...es-from-china/

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Best-...phones_id44018

    All are either less expensive or cost the same.
    In this situation, the value proposition of the Z30 is worse.

    As has been shown, your comparison makes non-sense, and is wrong.
    The question isn't, if I would pay 100$ more, to have a 500 ppi display.
    The real question is the following:
    Why should I pay more, to get 295 ppi instead of 441 (Z30 vs Galaxy S4)?

    Nokia/MS have understood, that not having a 1080p is a problem.
    This is the reason why they implement the support for this type of resolution, with their next GDR3 update.
    Since most of WP's marketshare comes from the low-to-midrange, this is a clear sign, that MS intends to have a bigger marketshare in the high-end.

    A flagship that has a price of 600$ has to excel in pretty much every area.
    If a smartphone isn't capable of doing that, then this poses the question of why even to bother buying a flagship?
    If I do not need all these high-end specs, then I should buy a mid-range phone.

    All of that, is linked to the decision of MS to give their phone OS the ability to support 1080p screens.

    To finish, I will tell you that there may be people who like BB10, and I am one of them, but they sure weren't able to sustain BlackBerry's sales.
    And if consumers are buying devices with full-hd displays in droves, then you should probably give the market what it wants.

    MS does comprehend this conjuncture.
    BlackBerry still says the following:
    "The screen size for the BlackBerry Z10 smartphone is 768 x 1280 pixels. However, future BlackBerry smartphones will have the following screen sizes:

    All-touch smartphones: 720 x 1280 pixels (16:9 aspect ratio)
    Smartphones with a physical keyboard: 720 x 720 pixels (1:1 aspect ratio)"
    http://developer.blackberry.com/desi...een_sizes.html

    Posted via CB10
    Just because you write "as has been shown" doesn't mean you made your point...because you didn't.

    You have not disproven that bigger is not always better.

    Your example that the Z30 proves your point is severely flawed. You did not disprove anything, all you did is throw in an unrelated variable to the argument and then said, "see I disproved it everyone believe me." The supposition you use is an inaccurate crutch. You bring in a third variable, that other companies currently have a better economy of scale for manufacturing as proof that bigger is not always better? That makes no sense.

    Let me explain using your Z30 example. Let's say a Z30 has two versions. Z30A is 720p 350ppi 5" and BlackBerry can build and sell this for $500. Z30B is 1080p 500ppi 5" and BlackBerry can build and sell this for $750. You are the product manager at BlackBerry and have to decide which device to sell. You look at the devices side by side and notice the Z30B is slightly nicer, but your market research shows for every $1 price increase you lose 10000 customers because they won't buy a device that expensive. In this case, it demonstrates there are situations where even though yes, the Z30B is better, but not enough to make it worth losing 2.5 million sales. So you as the product manager decide to go with the slightly worse screen to lower the price and get those extra 2.5 million sales. What does the fact that a Galaxy V can be made by Samsung at 1080p and 5" at 500ppi for $500 have to do with BlackBerry in this case is correctly deciding that the Z30A is it's best business move for them right now?

    Your sitting here and arguing that bigger is always better because Samsung, dollar per dollar, can sell a phone with better specs then BlackBerry can for the same price. We're trying to get through to you that nobody is disputing that. But would would you have BlackBerry do, make a phone with equal specifications to a Samsung Galaxy that they can't make as cheaply and nobody buys at all because it costs $250 more?(Arguing oranges)

    The point that is being made is that there are circumstances where bigger is not better. When the cost of slightly better resolution is a lot of customers not being able to afford your phone, well in this case it is smarter for BlackBerry to make a 720p phone. That decision is the right one independent of what any other manufacturer can sell at other price points. (arguing apples)

    As the evidence has shown, the irony is, your claims of irony are ironic, because you have actually proved my point with your example.


    Posted via CB10
    10-18-13 12:40 AM
  8. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    All you see is hardware. I see the OS development costs, licensing costs, NOC expenses, etc. It is more than hardware. You are being too simplistic.
    .
    All sunk costs, which do not enter into pricing for goods. Apple doesn't charge more for an iPhone 5S because they spent money developing iOS 7, nor did they charge more when they started offering iCloud for free, or when they started offering iMessage. The money spent on those are all sunk costs, and the money was spent to entice buyers into buying the latest and greatest iPhone.
    lnichols likes this.
    10-18-13 12:54 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Just because you write "as has been shown" doesn't mean you made your point...because you didn't.

    You have not disproven that bigger is not always better.

    Your example that the Z30 proves your point is severely flawed. You did not disprove anything, all you did is throw in an unrelated variable to the argument and then said, "see I disproved it everyone believe me." The supposition you use is an inaccurate crutch. You bring in a third variable, that other companies currently have a better economy of scale for manufacturing as proof that bigger is not always better? That makes no sense.

    Let me explain using your Z30 example. Let's say a Z30 has two versions. Z30A is 720p 350ppi 5" and BlackBerry can build and sell this for $500. Z30B is 1080p 500ppi 5" and BlackBerry can build and sell this for $750. You are the product manager at BlackBerry and have to decide which device to sell. You look at the devices side by side and notice the Z30B is slightly nicer, but your market research shows for every $1 price increase you lose 10000 customers because they won't buy a device that expensive. In this case, it demonstrates there are situations where even though yes, the Z30B is better, but not enough to make it worth losing 2.5 million sales. So you as the product manager decide to go with the slightly worse screen to lower the price and get those extra 2.5 million sales. What does the fact that a Galaxy V can be made by Samsung at 1080p and 5" at 500ppi for $500 have to do with BlackBerry in this case is correctly deciding that the Z30A is it's best business move for them right now?

    Your sitting here and arguing that bigger is always better because Samsung, dollar per dollar, can sell a phone with better specs then BlackBerry can for the same price. We're trying to get through to you that nobody is disputing that. But would would you have BlackBerry do, make a phone with equal specifications to a Samsung Galaxy that they can't make as cheaply and nobody buys at all because it costs $250 more?(Arguing oranges)

    The point that is being made is that there are circumstances where bigger is not better. When the cost of slightly better resolution is a lot of customers not being able to afford your phone, well in this case it is smarter for BlackBerry to make a 720p phone. That decision is the right one independent of what any other manufacturer can sell at other price points. (arguing apples)

    As the evidence has shown, the irony is, your claims of irony are ironic, because you have actually proved my point with your example.


    Posted via CB10
    I already said what I had to say.
    You can either understand it, or not, that is your decision...
    I also never said that bigger is always better. Go onto the first page and you'll find a reply of mine, where I actually say the exact contrary.
    (and the z30 has 295 ppi btw, not 350)

    If BlackBerry can't compete with other manufacturers on price and specs, then the reality is a pretty simple one:
    BlackBerry is uncompetitive.
    How BlackBerry changes that, is not one of my concerns, because the only thing I do, is telling you how the market is reacting, and buying.
    The value proposition of the Z30 is bad, compared to the equally priced competition.
    Chinese manufacturers can sell phones with slightly better and slightly worse specs for 240$.

    If BlackBerry can't compete, then it means that they should just leave the high-end segment behind, it's that simple.
    This is also the reason why your whole hypothetical scenario is a strawman and your talk about the introduction of different variables is useless.
    This isn't about bigger is better, this is about price, and nothing else.

    I can get a Samsung Galaxy S3, that has very similar specs compared to the Z30, for 386$.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007VC...bUvbUpU9350234

    The new Nexus 5 will cost about 350$, and its specs are in a completely different league.
    BlackBerry wants 600$+ for 1 and a half year old hardware, with the Z30.

    To look at the positive economies of scale, isn't even necessary, because phones like the LG G2 or the Sony Xperia Z1 aren't mass produced on the level of Samsung phones.
    And they still manage to sell better hardware, for less money.
    If BlackBerry can't compete in the high-end segment of the smartphone market, then they shouldn't even try.
    Flagship phones from Android manufacturers already use and WP flagships will use a 1080p screen.

    Why do you make excuses for BlackBerry?
    Either they are competitive or they aren't.
    What's your problem with that simple economical concept? It doesn't get a whole lot more basic than that.
    And yes, every bit of empirical data we have since the BB10 launch, has shown us, that BlackBerry can't compete.

    You are to hung up with the price elasticity in your example, as the consumer preferences, utility maximisation and the cross-price elasticity all weigh harder, in BlackBerry's case.
    And under these viewpoints, it becomes pretty clear that the price of the Z30 is far too elevated, for what it offers anyhow.
    This doesn't change significantly because the price changes 1 or 2 dollars (that's not even a coffee).
    A price change in the regions of 150$+ is something else though, but would change the market segment the 5 incher is aimed at.

    Which is also the reason, why a 1080p display is necessary, as long as you compete in the high-end segment.
    If you can't offer that as a manufacturer, well, as was said before, it only means that this manufacturer is uncompetitive.

    Why all of that is relevant for the topic?
    Because MS doesn't make excuses.
    Because WP will just offer the 1080p support, and give a potential BlackBerry buyer one more reason not to buy a BB10 device.

    I could have summarised that in a shorter way.
    It would have looked like that:
    What you say, is factually irrelevant.
    Why you ask?
    Because on the most basic level, BlackBerry's competition offers better and more of everything for a lesser price.
    The "why this is the case" and therefore the normative component, is completely insignificant for that discussion.
    If everyone can sell real high-end phones for 500-600$ and only BlackBerry can't, it's very clear what that means.

    Btw, did you get the memo of BlackBerry exiting the consumer market and focusing on the prosumer (what ever the eff that is, for BBRY)?
    Now tell me how being unable to compete and leaving a certain sector/segment correlate with one a another.

    (And just in case you missed it, the human eye is able to see the difference between 295 ppi, and 441 ppi)

    (If BlackBerry doesn't make a profit with their device sales, and doesn't show any signs of making them in the future, then their current strategy can only be described with "fail" anyway. Which shows that you made a big logical fallacy in your reply. The question isn't, if the Z30a or the Z30b is the better choice for BBRY. In this case, we know that the Z30 that you can buy right now, was the wrong decision anyhow. It's implied.)

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-18-13 at 02:39 AM.
    10-18-13 01:56 AM
  10. kupfernigk's Avatar
    I agree and disagree....


    In any case, the question why WP will support 1080p with their new update has to be asked.
    The logical answer is, that MS sees it as a necessity to conquer the high-end market and therefore the future mid-range as well.

    Posted via CB10
    The logical answer is that Microsoft want to run the same OS on tablets, desktop and phones, and so standardising on 1080p as a default resolution makes sense, since it works up to a 24 inch monitor. The same code will result in the same rendering on everything.
    Personally I think this is a stupid idea since a phone screen does a very different job from a monitor, but that seems to be their USP.

    I disagree with you because I detect a note of Apple-bashing. I don't think they have pursued the policy of "more is better". There are good technical reasons behind everything they do (except for the 5C). I was making the distinction between "more is better" and "additional useful functionality is better". A high res screen on a 17 inch laptop is useful. On a phone, not so much.

    BlackBerry do have an emerging market strategy, though you may have missed it. The 9720 outperforms the 9900 in a much cheaper design. For business users in emerging markets, it is a very useful piece of kit. The Nokias are aimed more at the cheap end of the developed world market, a different thing. Focussing completely on BB10 is to miss the bigger picture that most of the BlackBerry park is still on earlier OSes. Look how long it has taken Nokia to move away from its own earlier OSes, and they are still churning out Asha phones. Complaining that the Q5 is too expensive misses the point.
    10-18-13 06:40 AM
  11. rthonpm's Avatar
    Say the terms '1080p' and '720p' to the average smartphone buyer, not the geeks that are on forums or reading about every little processor change and tweak, and you're just going to get blank stares. If the display looks good, people will buy it. If 1080p was such a distinguishing factor wouldn't people only buy Android devices? Last I checked, people still line up like lemmings for iPhones and WP8 is outselling BlackBerry with a much lower quality looking display than BB10 offers.

    Technology is never really worth getting in a fit over: it's already obsolete by the time it reaches an economy of scale and R&D is constantly moving towards something else.
    10-18-13 07:08 AM
  12. PKPDBERRYADDICT's Avatar
    mind you BB10 suport output to external monitor of FULL HD so if you want better resolution on a bigger screen that is already built in.
    Now that you wnat super high resolution on a small screen mign not be that usefull but seems people notice the difference from me resolution wise Z10 get the job done.
    10-18-13 07:17 AM
  13. mathking606's Avatar
    BlackBerry is already testing 1080p resolution phones but guess you guys already forgot about the specs he leaked a while back!
    10-18-13 08:23 AM
  14. toutounjiomar's Avatar
    BlackBerry is behind Nokia, with things like Maps, the Camera and the overall ecosystem.
    This already is the case right now.

    Since Nokia will be included into MS, I can therefore say that BlackBerry is behind MS in the hardware department and ecosystem.

    Because MS already announced the support for 1080p with this update, and BlackBerry has categorically denied such a thing until now, I would say that it's a pretty safe bet, to announce WP8 ahead of BB10 in the hardware and software department for now.



    And now, my dear Arab friend, tell me how efficiency can provide me with a Full-HD display, even though I'm already having a phone with a 720p screen.

    I don't know why, but that sounds like something unachievable.

    Posted via CB10
    My dear white friend, take a look at the iPhone. Its screen is more crisp than the s4 yet the s4 has a higher ppi and resolution. It's all about the efficiency of the hardware and software working together

    Posted via CB10 Z10 STL 100-01, OS 10.1 MR, Etisalat, UAE
    10-18-13 09:23 AM
  15. europolska00's Avatar
    I already said what I had to say.
    You can either understand it, or not, that is your decision...
    I also never said that bigger is always better. Go onto the first page and you'll find a reply of mine, where I actually say the exact contrary.
    (and the z30 has 295 ppi btw, not 350)

    If BlackBerry can't compete with other manufacturers on price and specs, then the reality is a pretty simple one:
    BlackBerry is uncompetitive.
    How BlackBerry changes that, is not one of my concerns, because the only thing I do, is telling you how the market is reacting, and buying.
    The value proposition of the Z30 is bad, compared to the equally priced competition.
    Chinese manufacturers can sell phones with slightly better and slightly worse specs for 240$.

    If BlackBerry can't compete, then it means that they should just leave the high-end segment behind, it's that simple.
    This is also the reason why your whole hypothetical scenario is a strawman and your talk about the introduction of different variables is useless.
    This isn't about bigger is better, this is about price, and nothing else.

    I can get a Samsung Galaxy S3, that has very similar specs compared to the Z30, for 386$.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007VC...bUvbUpU9351650

    The new Nexus 5 will cost about 350$, and its specs are in a completely different league.
    BlackBerry wants 600$+ for 1 and a half year old hardware, with the Z30.

    To look at the positive economies of scale, isn't even necessary, because phones like the LG G2 or the Sony Xperia Z1 aren't mass produced on the level of Samsung phones.
    And they still manage to sell better hardware, for less money.
    If BlackBerry can't compete in the high-end segment of the smartphone market, then they shouldn't even try.
    Flagship phones from Android manufacturers already use and WP flagships will use a 1080p screen.

    Why do you make excuses for BlackBerry?
    Either they are competitive or they aren't.
    What's your problem with that simple economical concept? It doesn't get a whole lot more basic than that.
    And yes, every bit of empirical data we have since the BB10 launch, has shown us, that BlackBerry can't compete.

    You are to hung up with the price elasticity in your example, as the consumer preferences, utility maximisation and the cross-price elasticity all weigh harder, in BlackBerry's case.
    And under these viewpoints, it becomes pretty clear that the price of the Z30 is far too elevated, for what it offers anyhow.
    This doesn't change significantly because the price changes 1 or 2 dollars (that's not even a coffee).
    A price change in the regions of 150$+ is something else though, but would change the market segment the 5 incher is aimed at.

    Which is also the reason, why a 1080p display is necessary, as long as you compete in the high-end segment.
    If you can't offer that as a manufacturer, well, as was said before, it only means that this manufacturer is uncompetitive.

    Why all of that is relevant for the topic?
    Because MS doesn't make excuses.
    Because WP will just offer the 1080p support, and give a potential BlackBerry buyer one more reason not to buy a BB10 device.

    I could have summarised that in a shorter way.
    It would have looked like that:
    What you say, is factually irrelevant.
    Why you ask?
    Because on the most basic level, BlackBerry's competition offers better and more of everything for a lesser price.
    The "why this is the case" and therefore the normative component, is completely insignificant for that discussion.
    If everyone can sell real high-end phones for 500-600$ and only BlackBerry can't, it's very clear what that means.

    Btw, did you get the memo of BlackBerry exiting the consumer market and focusing on the prosumer (what ever the eff that is, for BBRY)?
    Now tell me how being unable to compete and leaving a certain sector/segment correlate with one a another.

    (And just in case you missed it, the human eye is able to see the difference between 295 ppi, and 441 ppi)

    (If BlackBerry doesn't make a profit with their device sales, and doesn't show any signs of making them in the future, then their current strategy can only be described with "fail" anyway. Which shows that you made a big logical fallacy in your reply. The question isn't, if the Z30a or the Z30b is the better choice for BBRY. In this case, we know that the Z30 that you can buy right now, was the wrong decision anyhow. It's implied.)

    Posted via CB10
    No you don't get it.


    Posted via CB10
    10-18-13 10:13 AM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    All sunk costs, which do not enter into pricing for goods. Apple doesn't charge more for an iPhone 5S because they spent money developing iOS 7, nor did they charge more when they started offering iCloud for free, or when they started offering iMessage. The money spent on those are all sunk costs, and the money was spent to entice buyers into buying the latest and greatest iPhone.
    Prove that the price that Apple sells the 5S doesn't include cost recovery for everything else.
    10-18-13 10:16 AM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The logical answer is that Microsoft want to run the same OS on tablets, desktop and phones, and so standardising on 1080p as a default resolution makes sense, since it works up to a 24 inch monitor. The same code will result in the same rendering on everything.
    Personally I think this is a stupid idea since a phone screen does a very different job from a monitor, but that seems to be their USP.
    At least someone gets it.
    10-18-13 10:21 AM
  18. cgk's Avatar
    The funny thing is, in once of his first interviews as CEO, Heins said that he didn't think that Nokia was a thread because they were just a handset providers and weren't integrated like BBRY is... which is ironic as Nokia are about to get integrated and BBRY has a good chance of being broken up...
    10-18-13 10:25 AM
  19. texazzpete's Avatar
    The camera is the only advantage the 1020 has over the Z30, all other hardware on the z30 is superior...better cpu, gpu, larger screen, larger battery, upgradeable memory. As for ecosystem, I give the edge to Windows phone like you.

    Until there is a 1080p windows phone you can't list this as an advantage.

    Posted via CB10
    Nokia's Lumia 1520 is being announced tomorrow, should be released this October. 1080p, Snapdragon S800, 6 inch screen etc etc. It is the contemporary of the Z30...and it slaughters it in hardware with ease.

    So, yes, this can and should be listed as an advantage for Wp8
    MarsupilamiX and Etios like this.
    10-21-13 06:19 AM
  20. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Nokia's Lumia 1520 is being announced tomorrow, should be released this October. 1080p, Snapdragon S800, 6 inch screen etc etc. It is the contemporary of the Z30...and it slaughters it in hardware with ease.

    So, yes, this can and should be listed as an advantage for Wp8
    I wanted to wait for its official announcement, but since you introduced the Nokia 1520 in this thread:

    That's a flagship. That's a high-end phone. That thing is worth 600+ $.
    Compared to the Z30, for the same price, it's nearly impossible to not go with the Nokia (as long as the display isn't too big).
    Better specs, better ecosystem and a certainty that you will get support for the device.

    These are all reasons not to go with a BlackBerry and as Texazzpete has said:
    The 1080p display is definitely a strong point for the WP platform.

    BlackBerry is already testing 1080p resolution phones but guess you guys already forgot about the specs he leaked a while back!
    No, I specifically talked about this possibility.
    But that doesn't change two things:

    A) It has been leaked, and who knows if it really happens, or if BlackBerry is still here when this theoretical phone could theoretically be released?

    B) "The screen size for the BlackBerry Z10 smartphone is 768 x 1280 pixels. However, future BlackBerry smartphones will have the following screen sizes:

    All-touch smartphones: 720 x 1280 pixels (16:9 aspect ratio)
    Smartphones with a physical keyboard: 720 x 720 pixels (1:1 aspect ratio)"
    http://developer.blackberry.com/desi...een_sizes.html

    With nobody from BlackBerry officially saying that this will change.
    The earlier BlackBerry would announce such a change, the better it would be for devs, because they have more time to adapt their apps for the new screen resolution.

    Posted via CB10
    10-21-13 07:07 AM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I wanted to wait for its official announcement, but since you introduced the Nokia 1520 in this thread:

    That's a flagship. That's a high-end phone. That thing is worth 600+ $.
    Compared to the Z30, for the same price, it's nearly impossible to not go with the Nokia (as long as the display isn't too big).
    Better specs, better ecosystem and a certainty that you will get support for the device.

    These are all reasons not to go with a BlackBerry and as Texazzpete has said:
    The 1080p display is definitely a strong point for the WP platform.



    No, I specifically talked about this possibility.
    But that doesn't change two things:

    A) It has been leaked, and who knows if it really happens, or if BlackBerry is still here when this theoretical phone could theoretically be released?

    B) "The screen size for the BlackBerry Z10 smartphone is 768 x 1280 pixels. However, future BlackBerry smartphones will have the following screen sizes:

    All-touch smartphones: 720 x 1280 pixels (16:9 aspect ratio)
    Smartphones with a physical keyboard: 720 x 720 pixels (1:1 aspect ratio)"
    Different screen sizes - BlackBerry Developer

    With nobody from BlackBerry officially saying that this will change.
    The earlier BlackBerry would announce such a change, the better it would be for devs, because they have more time to adapt their apps for the new screen resolution.

    Posted via CB10
    Full HD on a screen that is less than 5 inches is a waste. HD on a screen less than 5 inches is more ppi than the human eye can see.
    Fr3lncr likes this.
    10-21-13 07:14 AM
  22. notfanboy's Avatar
    Full HD on a screen that is less than 5 inches is a waste. HD on a screen less than 5 inches is more ppi than the human eye can see.
    Pick up your BB10 device and look at the holes along the side. One of these is for an HDMI port, which lets you mirror the screen onto a screen that is many many times bigger. Would you not like the ability to have a higher resolution on that display?
    10-21-13 07:52 AM
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Pick up your BB10 device and look at the holes along the side. One of these is for an HDMI port, which lets you mirror the screen onto a screen that is many many times bigger. Would you not like the ability to have a higher resolution on that display?
    And what resolution does it output? And this has nothing to do with the resolution of the screen on the device itself.
    10-21-13 08:07 AM
  24. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Nokia's Lumia 1520 is being announced tomorrow, should be released this October. 1080p, Snapdragon S800, 6 inch screen etc etc. It is the contemporary of the Z30...and it slaughters it in hardware with ease.

    So, yes, this can and should be listed as an advantage for Wp8
    1080p is needed for a 6 inch screen as the ppi is lower than what the normal eye can see. If you notice, I always qualify that a 720 is all that is needed on a 5 inch and less, as they will keep the ppi above what the normal eye can see. So the Z30 720 is good, if the Z30 had a 6 inch screen, I would say that it needed 1080.
    10-21-13 08:50 AM
  25. endevour's Avatar
    Some people here sound like those guys in shops, where they keep telling me what I need...

    This post may sound random but
    may I ask...
    What would change, if your phone would have a 4k display and a 8 core cpu with 32 cores on the gfx part right now?
    Would you, see more, see sharper, accomplish more, get more stuff done, play more, feel better, sleep better or just have phone with higher specs?

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the specs and hardware race.
    Companies obviously think that this is the one big part to stand out, something were
    they can be measured - if they can compete or not, in some kind of objective way... numbers.
    What they do forget is (IMHO) to look at the whole package.
    As a consumer (maybe I am just different) I want the whole device to FIT MY NEEDS... not the needs of a rocket scientist (which I am not)
    Somehow many people seem to have pretty high needs concerning their smartphone so I doubt 4k display with 8 cores would fit them also.

    So how about more context sensitivity, like adjust the OS 'look and feel' on hdmi out. or
    charge the battery with body heat... or w/e I dont' know either :P
    10-21-13 10:38 AM
81 1234

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