10-23-13 05:11 AM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Microsoft announces Windows Phone GDR3 update, adds 1080p and large screen support

    If BlackBerry still makes handsets next year, it's time to step up their game once again.

    We all know that they said, at least until now, that 1080p support is nothing they will have, as devs were promised 2 (3 with the odd Z10 one) resolutions to work with.
    The thought behind that, probably was to keep the fragmentation in the BB10 ecosystem as low as possible.

    With pretty much every manufacturer (except for Apple with their iPhones, which don't have displays that are bigger than 4 inches) implementing 1080p screens in their flagship devices, BlackBerry has no other choice than to embrace that development as well.

    At least if BlackBerry wants to be somehow competitive in the hardware department.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-17-13 at 03:50 AM.
    10-17-13 03:16 AM
  2. cernica's Avatar
    I believe FullHD for 5" display is just overkill and only decrease the performance of the phone. It's like the pixel race in photography. Stupid marketing trick which actually decreases the quality of photos.
    vrud and Mr.mister like this.
    10-17-13 03:24 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I believe FullHD for 5" display is just overkill and only decrease the performance of the phone. It's like the pixel race in photography. Stupid marketing trick which actually decreases the quality of photos.
    It's kind of weird to say that a better display, in this case a 1080p one, would be worse than a 720p screen, all other things being equal.

    Actually, a lot of tests have shown that the 1080p displays used right now, are light years ahead of what Samsung used in their Galaxy S3 (720p pentile Amoled, similar to the Z30) back then.

    Logic and hard facts therefore contradict your analogy completely ( the analogy isn't one of the best I have read. At least you didn't use a car analogy, most users fail completely when using them).

    We also see that the new phones using 1080p displays actually have a longer battery life, than their 720p predecessors.

    Here you go:
    http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm

    Objectively, the 1080p display in the Galaxy S4 is in another league than the one of the S3.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 03:46 AM
  4. badiyee's Avatar
    igzo screens, anybody?
    10-17-13 03:55 AM
  5. cernica's Avatar
    For 1080p display you need stronger cpu to achieve same performance. On 5" screen I don't think you need FullHD. Otherwise you would be retching just from watching your 40" - 50" FullHD TV. My analogy is relevant in that way that 1080p displays are just a marketing gimmick same as pixel race. Corporations need to sell their products every day so they try to come up with new things. Not everything new is better or at least really needed though.
    10-17-13 03:59 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    igzo screens, anybody?
    I would love to see them implemented in mobile phones!
    As a whole the industry did get a little more courageous considering displays.

    Sony using their triluminos tech in their new Z1 or LG using an IPS one in the G2 would be obvious examples.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 04:01 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    For 1080p display you need stronger cpu to achieve same performance. On 5" screen I don't think you need FullHD. Otherwise you would be retching just from watching your 40" - 50" FullHD TV. My analogy is relevant in that way that 1080p displays are just a marketing gimmick same as pixel race. Corporations need to sell their products every day so they try to come up with new things. Not everything new is better or at least really needed though.
    Again, the new 1080p displays are objectively better than their old 720p counterparts.

    Using the word "gimmick" you imply that this isn't the case.
    Read the link I gave you, and inform yourself.

    CPU, GPU and battery performance are non-issues in real life.
    The benchmarks of smartphones with a 1080p screen clearly show that, as they are outperforming their 720p predecessors under every possible metric.

    So yes, your analogy is still not the best under the sun.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 04:05 AM
  8. badiyee's Avatar
    I would love to see them implemented in mobile phones!
    As a whole the industry did get a little more courageous considering displays.

    Sony using their triluminos tech in their new Z1 or LG using an IPS one in the G2 would be obvious examples.

    Posted via CB10
    I think SHARP uses them. I was looking at their 7" tablets, with a friend in Japan asking him to buy it for me, only to find out that the SIM won't work in my country. Bummer. But the usage of IGZO screens seems to give a much better battery life, up to 2.5x, claimed it seems. The colors don't seem bad too. Its a good compromise, I'll take that. Though at the moment its still kind of expensive.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-17-13 04:09 AM
  9. cernica's Avatar
    One last attempt. Do you enjoy your 40+" 1080p TV and still you really think you need 1080p on 5" display?
    10-17-13 04:10 AM
  10. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    One last attempt. Do you enjoy your 40+" 1080p TV and still you really think you need 1080p on 5" display?
    The comparison isn't good as well because:

    A) The viewing distance is completely different.

    B) The usage between a TV and a phone is different.

    C) The whole TV sector is going for higher resolutions, known as 4k and 8k.

    D) High DPI PC monitors are also slowly coming to the mainstream, spearheaded by Apple and their Retina Macbook Pro.

    E) The whole smartphone industry is using 1080p displays for flagships (well except for Apple, as their biggest phone has 4 inches), which means that it'll get commodised by the end of next year for the mid-range.

    F) Chinese smartphone manufacturers sell phones with a quadcore, 2GB of RAM and a 1080p screen for around 200$.

    G) Yes, I think that Full HD TVs have a PPI that isn't high enough.

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 04:20 AM
  11. cernica's Avatar
    In that case you really need that. In my case I have Z10 and Lumia 820 which has 800x480 at 4.3" display and honestly can't see the difference. Maybe my eyes are not as good as yours so that's why I think it's a marketing gimmick
    10-17-13 04:27 AM
  12. Akuji_ism's Avatar
    One last attempt. Do you enjoy your 40+" 1080p TV and still you really think you need 1080p on 5" display?
    Do you stand 20 cm from your TV when watching? Then please try so and tell me whether you see the pixels or not.
    10-17-13 04:29 AM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    In that case you really need that. In my case I have Z10 and Lumia 820 which has 800x480 at 4.3" display and honestly can't see the difference. Maybe my eyes are not as good as yours so that's why I think it's a marketing gimmick
    I didn't want to be mean or anything, and a 720p display isn't bad only because it doesn't have 1080p.
    If that was the message that came through, I do have to apologise.

    I'll try to explain it better, what I meant:
    For me it's a question of the market segment a phone is aimed at.
    When I pay 600-700 Euro/$ for a flagship phone, I expect hardware that is top-notch.

    The Lumia 820 is a pretty nice device, but by today's standards, it would never be worth 500$.

    And this is my big gripe with the Z30 right now.
    The price for that phone is obscene, only going by the hardware components it uses.
    A flagship phone, not released by Apple, should never be so poorly specced as the Z30 is.

    One of the often seen, but foul excuses by the hardcore BlackBerry fans was, that WP doesn't have 1080p support as well, so why should BlackBerry have it?
    Well, that excuse just died a very quick death.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960, tack, Roo Zilla and 1 others like this.
    10-17-13 04:41 AM
  14. cernica's Avatar
    In that case I agree with you.

    This could lead to another discussion about price policy (not only Blackberry's) but this I want to avoid
    MarsupilamiX and kbz1960 like this.
    10-17-13 04:47 AM
  15. kupfernigk's Avatar
    There is a word for this particular arms race; it's "silly".
    Back in the 1980s Umberto Eco (that Umberto Eco, but in his day job as a professor) wrote an article about how the US was so dependent on the idea that more = better, whether it was huge 64oz steaks, art galleries that had copies of paintings that were "more" realistic than the real thing, or just the idea that bigger always meant better.
    Whatever their faults, Apple have been very successful by working completely against this idea. The iPhone has fewer pixels than even midrange competitors, and is smaller. Although some of their laptops have high res displays, they are still of a size that makes sense (a video editor can view a 1080px video in a window with other stuff around it).
    The competition is generally responding in the traditional way by offering "more". Product doesn't sell? More pixels. More cores. More apps. More features.
    It suggests that they are just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it sticks.
    BlackBerry is now going to be a small company. To survive, they must adopt the Apple mantra when it was escaping the doldrums: think different.
    Just offering "more" isn't going to cut it in a world where Samsung makes much of the silicon, and (as with the G Note 3) can always just offer "more" of everything.
    Realistically BlackBerry should not up the screen resolution until they can do an Apple and simply double up. That means displays of a 2560 by 1440 (or 1440 by 1440) resolution. They will come. Result: no fragmentation, no developer problems. Until then, focus on corporate and emerging market needs. It isn't the top end WP8 phones that sell, but the cheap ones.
    10-17-13 04:49 AM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    There is a word for this particular arms race; it's "silly".
    Back in the 1980s Umberto Eco (that Umberto Eco, but in his day job as a professor) wrote an article about how the US was so dependent on the idea that more = better, whether it was huge 64oz steaks, art galleries that had copies of paintings that were "more" realistic than the real thing, or just the idea that bigger always meant better.
    Whatever their faults, Apple have been very successful by working completely against this idea. The iPhone has fewer pixels than even midrange competitors, and is smaller. Although some of their laptops have high res displays, they are still of a size that makes sense (a video editor can view a 1080px video in a window with other stuff around it).
    The competition is generally responding in the traditional way by offering "more". Product doesn't sell? More pixels. More cores. More apps. More features.
    It suggests that they are just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it sticks.
    BlackBerry is now going to be a small company. To survive, they must adopt the Apple mantra when it was escaping the doldrums: think different.
    Just offering "more" isn't going to cut it in a world where Samsung makes much of the silicon, and (as with the G Note 3) can always just offer "more" of everything.
    Realistically BlackBerry should not up the screen resolution until they can do an Apple and simply double up. That means displays of a 2560 by 1440 (or 1440 by 1440) resolution. They will come. Result: no fragmentation, no developer problems. Until then, focus on corporate and emerging market needs. It isn't the top end WP8 phones that sell, but the cheap ones.
    I agree and disagree....

    Agreed on:
    1) More isn't always better.
    2) It's easier to have high-end specs, if you are Samsung.
    3) They are a little bit more expensive for BlackBerry.
    4) BlackBerry should focus on emerging markets.

    Disagreed on:
    1) Apple didn't use "more is better".
    They introduced the retina display and therefore they started the whole PPI race.

    The 64 bit processor in the 5s isn't less as well, the new features, from fingerprint readers to 7 different colours in the 5c are also "more".

    Their App Store lives from "more is better" and this actually goes for the whole ecosystem.

    The iPad is another testament why Apple is guilty of that principle as well.

    The raison d'etre of their Retina MacBook line, is the need for more pixels.

    2) BlackBerry should follow the Apple mantra.
    It's pretty simple: they can't.

    Be it because of the mindshare and public image, or maybe because Apple isn't even going after cheap phones for emerging markets, contrary to BlackBerry with their BBOS legacy devices.

    Or maybe just because Apple has shown an ability to innovate that BlackBerry hadn't been able to display in years.

    To finish:
    When you say that BlackBerry should focus on emerging markets, then the pricing strategy they have shown until now, has to be considered as a complete fail and as abysmally bad.

    Remember the price of the Q5 when it launched?
    Yes, the price tag had written fail all over it.

    Maybe the Z30?
    I could buy 2 Google Nexus 4 for that price, with each one having better specs than it (except for battery life).
    Apart from that little fact, the Z30 isn't a phone fo emerging markets or the enterprise, as the price is too high anyhow.

    So, it's pretty obvious that BlackBerry actually didn't do at all, what you suggest here.
    The retiering of the Z10 is the first intelligent thing, BlackBerry did pricing wise since the introduction of BB10.

    In any case, the question why WP will support 1080p with their new update has to be asked.
    The logical answer is, that MS sees it as a necessity to conquer the high-end market and therefore the future mid-range as well.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 10-17-13 at 05:56 AM.
    kbz1960, Etios, grover5 and 2 others like this.
    10-17-13 05:23 AM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    This is something the OP feels very strongly about. Interesting thread.

    Those that disagree obviously haven't compared a 1080p vs 720p 5-inch smartphone display in person. Or they don't care about the difference it makes in resulting PPI.

    They've also never compared quad core vs dual, 2 GB of RAM vs 1, etc.
    10-17-13 06:07 AM
  18. jpvj's Avatar
    There is a word for this particular arms race; it's "silly".
    Back in the 1980s Umberto Eco (that Umberto Eco, but in his day job as a professor) wrote an article about how the US was so dependent on the idea that more = better, whether it was huge 64oz steaks, art galleries that had copies of paintings that were "more" realistic than the real thing, or just the idea that bigger always meant better.
    Whatever their faults, Apple have been very successful by working completely against this idea. The iPhone has fewer pixels than even midrange competitors, and is smaller. Although some of their laptops have high res displays, they are still of a size that makes sense (a video editor can view a 1080px video in a window with other stuff around it).
    The competition is generally responding in the traditional way by offering "more". Product doesn't sell? More pixels. More cores. More apps. More features.
    It suggests that they are just throwing stuff at a wall and hoping it sticks.
    BlackBerry is now going to be a small company. To survive, they must adopt the Apple mantra when it was escaping the doldrums: think different.
    Just offering "more" isn't going to cut it in a world where Samsung makes much of the silicon, and (as with the G Note 3) can always just offer "more" of everything.
    Realistically BlackBerry should not up the screen resolution until they can do an Apple and simply double up. That means displays of a 2560 by 1440 (or 1440 by 1440) resolution. They will come. Result: no fragmentation, no developer problems. Until then, focus on corporate and emerging market needs. It isn't the top end WP8 phones that sell, but the cheap ones.
    100% agree on everything your wrote.

    BB knows not to fragment displays - they learned that the hard way with BB OS.

    Android manufactors are forced into a spec and "gadget" race, because Android is ... Android. In order to stand out, they need to have the biggest, fastest, loudest, ... which in most cases does not do anything for the users.

    Doubling the resolution was really clever, as it made the best scaling (1:2) possible. Of course it gets pixelated, but it's evenly pixelated.
    10-17-13 06:09 AM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As long as the ppi for a device is above what the human eye can see from the standard viewing distance, then that is what should dictate the screen resolution. Anything else is over kill. And ideally, since videos are encoded in 720 and 1080, then anything other than that will cause the GPU to work harder. Take these two things and the fact that these devices work off a battery. 720 is ideal for 5 inches and less. There is both a physical (human eye) and technical (batteries) limitation to screen resolution. Blackberry has it right in the hardware (720 display) and software (1080 out).

    And in the world where we have 32 and 64-bit processors as standard, why is it that video cards only support 24-bit colour? The reason. 24-bit colour displays more colours than the human eye can see. Anything else is a waste.

    Samsung is buying Toyota and have announced that only losers drive cars with four wheels. They are outfitting all new cars with eight wheels.
    10-17-13 06:10 AM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    This is something the OP feels very strongly about. Interesting thread.

    Those that disagree obviously haven't compared a 1080p vs 720p 5-inch smartphone display in person. Or they don't care about the difference it makes in resulting PPI.
    The Z30 ppi is still above what the human eye can see at the proper viewing distance. Any differences you may think you see is with the display technology (S-Stripe OLED, LED, etc) and not the ppi.
    10-17-13 06:13 AM
  21. Akuji_ism's Avatar
    There is a word for this particular arms race; it's "silly".

    Realistically BlackBerry should not up the screen resolution until they can do an Apple and simply double up. That means displays of a 2560 by 1440 (or 1440 by 1440) resolution. They will come. .
    Actually they are almost here: Vivo breaks the 1080p barrier with the first 2K smartphone - GSMArena.com news
    MarsupilamiX and kbz1960 like this.
    10-17-13 06:14 AM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    This is something the OP feels very strongly about. Interesting thread.

    Those that disagree obviously haven't compared a 1080p vs 720p 5-inch smartphone display in person. Or they don't care about the difference it makes in resulting PPI.

    They've also never compared quad core vs dual, 2 GB of RAM vs 1, etc.
    Birdman!
    If you followed the Z30 section of this forum, before the phone was made official, I am pretty sure that you saw at least 40 posts about that subject from me

    I also said for months now, that even WP8 will soon follow suit with the 1080p trend in high-end devices.

    Now that it's official, I thought I should make a thread about it, as it shows us that BlackBerry is behind the curve, yet again.

    And of course I'll mostly agree with the statment of your post.

    Posted via CB10
    Poirots Progeny likes this.
    10-17-13 06:24 AM
  23. systemvolker's Avatar
    Make up your mind folks. Lol

    Posted via CB10
    10-17-13 06:29 AM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The Z30 ppi is still above what the human eye can see at the proper viewing distance. Any differences you may think you see is with the display technology (S-Stripe OLED, LED, etc) and not the ppi.
    Since the intent of having any meaningful discussion with you about this theme is completely useless anyhow, I'll just dump these links, in the hope of you understanding what they contain.

    If you aren't able to, other posters will surely comprehend what they mean.

    http://www.cultofmac.com/173702/why-...nough-feature/

    http://wolfcrow.com/blog/notes-by-dr...the-human-eye/

    Samsung is buying Toyota and have announced that only losers drive cars with four wheels. They are outfitting all new cars with eight wheels.
    Go back to my second post and read what I prophesied about people making car analogies

    (hint: the word "fail" may appear somewhere)

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960, BerryWizard and Etios like this.
    10-17-13 06:36 AM
  25. birdman_38's Avatar
    Birdman!
    If you followed the Z30 section of this forum, before the phone was made official, I am pretty sure that you saw at least 40 posts about that subject from me

    I also said for months now, that even WP8 will soon follow suit with the 1080p trend in high-end devices.

    Now that it's official, I thought I should make a thread about it, as it shows us that BlackBerry is behind the curve, yet again.

    And of course I'll mostly agree with the statment of your post.
    Lol, thanks. It could be that Microsoft has done their best to avoid resolution fragmentation with Windows Phone which is why we haven't seen 1080p displays from them until now.

    I'm curious to see how Apple will achieve it with the iPhone 6 as they have such an odd resolution right now with the i5 models.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-17-13 06:41 AM
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