03-20-15 01:03 PM
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  1. JeepBB's Avatar
    Amazingly, everyone else on Earth isn't you. Astonishing and hard to believe, I know.
    Wow!

    I didn't expect that kind of reaction. Having a bad day, are we?
    anon(5818411) likes this.
    03-16-15 08:09 AM
  2. nt300's Avatar
    Absolutely not. BB10 built and designed by BlackBerry and powered by QNX. Full Android? Lol ya no thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    TheAuthority likes this.
    03-16-15 08:16 AM
  3. birdman_38's Avatar
    Absolutely not. BB10 built and designed by BlackBerry and powered by QNX. Full Android? Lol ya no thanks.
    Prepare yourself. They can't push a stagnant OS to enterprise forever.
    03-16-15 08:33 AM
  4. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    there is blacksheep and there is isheep...

    Blacksheep seems to be getting progressively worse, it's at that state where they are now worse than iSheep. Both have no idea what they are talking about...
    03-16-15 10:38 AM
  5. grahamf's Avatar
    Prepare yourself. They can't push a stagnant OS to enterprise forever.
    lolwhut?

    Android is far older than BlackBerry 10, and is also just a new interface on decades old Linix.
    03-16-15 01:53 PM
  6. mornhavon's Avatar
    Android is far older than BlackBerry 10, and is also just a new interface on decades old Linix.
    I've never understood the "Android = Linux = Old = Inferior to QNX/BB10" argument, can someone please explain it to me?

    QNX, Linux, Android and BB10 have all evolved significantly from their first iteration.

    The first release of Linux was in 1991, the first release of QNX was in 1982. If for some reason the age of the initial release, which would be unrecognizable from the current version, matters so much, wouldn't Android's kernel be a spring chicken compared to BB10's old crusty kernel?

    If you want to say Unix = Linux = Android, you're missing the point.
    JeepBB, anon(5818411) and mikeo007 like this.
    03-16-15 03:07 PM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    lolwhut?

    Android is far older than BlackBerry 10, and is also just a new interface on decades old Linix.
    There's a difference between "stagnant" and "stale".
    03-16-15 03:15 PM
  8. grahamf's Avatar
    I've never understood the "Android = Linux = Old = Inferior to QNX/BB10" argument, can someone please explain it to me?

    QNX, Linux, Android and BB10 have all evolved significantly from their first iteration.

    The first release of Linux was in 1991, the first release of QNX was in 1982. If for some reason the age of the initial release, which would be unrecognizable from the current version, matters so much, wouldn't Android's kernel be a spring chicken compared to BB10's old crusty kernel?

    If you want to say Unix = Linux = Android, you're missing the point.
    The OS is not just the core kernel. Sure the QNX kernel is old, but that's a small fraction of the OS. You have all of the layers of code for the interface, hardware abstraction, application interfaces that go on top. Android was built and deployed years before Blackberry 10, but the emphasis has been more tacking on new features to an older codebase instead of optimizing the OS for efficiency. That's why the Z30 has become faster and snapper in the two years it's been out while the Samsung Galaxy S4 struggles with the latest OSs.
    toneytone likes this.
    03-16-15 07:53 PM
  9. mornhavon's Avatar
    The OS is not just the core kernel. Sure the QNX kernel is old, but that's a small fraction of the OS. You have all of the layers of code for the interface, hardware abstraction, application interfaces that go on top.
    We're making the same point. I was simply responding to your "Android is a new interface on decades old Linux" comment, which is only true in the way that BB10 is just a new interface on decades old QNX. It's intellectually dishonest at best.

    Android was built and deployed years before Blackberry 10, but the emphasis has been more tacking on new features to an older codebase instead of optimizing the OS for efficiency. That's why the Z30 has become faster and snapper in the two years it's been out while the Samsung Galaxy S4 struggles with the latest OSs.
    Let's agree to disagree. Samsung's Touchwiz is known to be sluggish bloatware at its finest, but even that has radically improved in recent years. Android 2.3 Gingerbread was an entirely different OS than Lollipop 5.1. If you don't think there have been efficiency improvements and optimizations made in Android, it might be because you're relying on Crackberry for information on competing OS's.
    Witmen likes this.
    03-16-15 08:43 PM
  10. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    sadly if you put a ROM on your android like cyanogen it's actually faster than BB10. All bloatware removed and the OS is insanely fast. Cyanogen 12 is absolutely crazy
    On my passport the apps all take a few seconds to open which annoy the crap out of me, especially the core apps which you'd think would open insanely fast actually app slower than some of my 3rd party apps.

    off topic but just wanted to crack that android is slow myth
    03-16-15 11:13 PM
  11. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    That's why the Z30 has become faster and snapper in the two years it's been out while the Samsung Galaxy S4 struggles with the latest OSs.
    uhh no... look at this S3, it's faster than a passport
    03-16-15 11:17 PM
  12. Soulstream's Avatar
    The OS is not just the core kernel. Sure the QNX kernel is old, but that's a small fraction of the OS. You have all of the layers of code for the interface, hardware abstraction, application interfaces that go on top. Android was built and deployed years before Blackberry 10, but the emphasis has been more tacking on new features to an older codebase instead of optimizing the OS for efficiency. That's why the Z30 has become faster and snapper in the two years it's been out while the Samsung Galaxy S4 struggles with the latest OSs.
    Samsung (while the most popular Android OEM) is actually one of the worst at making software (their TouchWiz interface). Their version of Android is really bloated with unnecessary apps. On the other hand HTC does a pretty good Android implementation and interface and so do Motorola and the nexus line (both have almost stock Android).
    03-17-15 04:00 AM
  13. birdman_38's Avatar
    Samsung (while the most popular Android OEM) is actually one of the worst at making software (their TouchWiz interface). Their version of Android is really bloated with unnecessary apps.
    They've actually done a really good job of streamlining TouchWiz over the years.
    03-17-15 08:24 AM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    They've actually done a really good job of streamlining TouchWiz over the years.
    True. But in the past it was really crap. getting it better is nice, but many still consider it one of the worst implementations out there.
    03-17-15 08:26 AM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Have you seen Lollipop? I've been as hard on Android as anybody for their crap UI, but they've lately nailed it down.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Those 2nd grade geometry figures at the bottom of the screen (toolbelt), are the ugliest I have seen since Android 1.4?

    The whole UI got Jonny Ive'd.
    I prefer the Froyo esthetic to the Lollipop one.
    But what do I know? I actually like BB10...

    Very true, material design is the new flat. They are dumbing down the OS making it more intuitive and visual appealing so normal consumers can buy it instead of tech geeks. Very good move by Google
    Lollipop makes me appreciate iOS...
    And trust me, I never liked iOS.


    At topic.
    I am all for Android BlackBerries.
    Can't get worse than BB10 anyhow.
    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    03-17-15 07:23 PM
  16. mithrazor's Avatar
    The only way I'll accept android on BlackBerry is if instead of having the runtime, it just runs the actual android OS with Google Play support and everything virtualized.

    As long as we have BlackBerry 10 as a base OS. The only time Android would be used if we're running an Android app or something that relies on Android.

    Basically in the end, the user doesn't know the Android OS is running, it's a fluid experience to having Android apps.

    Posted via CB10
    03-17-15 07:42 PM
  17. Witmen's Avatar
    They had $361 Million revenue on hardware sales of 2 Million devices last quarter according to the link provided.

    Posted via CB10
    And? Do you honestly think that tiny amount of profit is enough to make BlackBerry's new platform a profitable investment?

    Think of it like this, BlackBerry paid $200 million for QNX. They spent at least a hundred million on developer relations and getting apps onto BlackBerry 10 (events, free devices, all expenses paid trips and cash money for apps. I received at least one of each of those perks myself). They bought TAT to make the UI for BB10. Also, can't forget about the over a billion dollars in PlayBook write offs. Then the billion dollars in Z10 write offs. What about that superbowl ad with the elephant legs and rubber duckies? Not to mention, they had to pay employees to make the actual OS. Research and development don't come cheap.

    It all adds up, and $361 million dollars is nothing compared to what the new platform has cost them. But hey! If you think a profitable quarter or two makes up for the years of losses, than cool I guess.
    03-17-15 08:38 PM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    And? Do you honestly think that tiny amount of profit is enough to make BlackBerry's new platform a profitable investment?

    Think of it like this, BlackBerry paid $200 million for QNX. They spent at least a hundred million on developer relations and getting apps onto BlackBerry 10 (events, free devices, all expenses paid trips and cash money for apps. I received at least one of each of those perks myself). They bought TAT to make the UI for BB10. Also, can't forget about the over a billion dollars in PlayBook write offs. Then the billion dollars in Z10 write offs. What about that superbowl ad with the elephant legs and rubber duckies? Not to mention, they had to pay employees to make the actual OS. Research and development don't come cheap.

    It all adds up, and $361 million dollars is nothing compared to what the new platform has cost them. But hey! If you think a profitable quarter or two makes up for the years of losses, than cool I guess.
    It is estimated that the original iPhone cost Apple $2.6 Billion dollars in R&D to get to market. They didn't recoup that money with the original iPhone in revenue, and it took about 7 Quarters after the original iPhone launched for things to take off and that initial investment to be recouped, all while incurring additional R&D during that time. It isn't cheap to develop a new product/platform, and it is difficult to make your money back on the first of any type of device. Below is the hardware revenue for BlackBerry by quarter in recent times. Notice how none are negative. While definitely not a positive growing trend, clearly shows they are generating revenue with BB10 hardware and always have even with the write downs. When you consider that a lot of the Passport sales didn't count towards that last $361 Million figure due to supply constraints, and many of those numbers before are lower due to the write downs, they haven't had much in the way of new hardware, and they don't count revenue now until the phone is activated by the end user now, it clearly shows that they are slowly making back their investment in BB10, and may have recouped the initial investments you describe.

    A Billion dollar write down isn't like taking a billion dollar pile of money and lighting it on fire.


    Would a full Android BlackBerry device be worth sacrificing the BB10 Android Runtime? Perhaps.-blackberry-hardware-revenues.png

    Posted via CB10
    03-17-15 09:41 PM
  19. Witmen's Avatar
    It is estimated that the original iPhone cost Apple $2.6 Billion dollars in R&D to get to market. They didn't recoup that money with the original iPhone in revenue, and it took about 7 Quarters after the original iPhone launched for things to take off and that initial investment to be recouped, all while incurring additional R&D during that time. It isn't cheap to develop a new product/platform, and it is difficult to make your money back on the first of any type of device. Below is the hardware revenue for BlackBerry by quarter in recent times. Notice how none are negative. While definitely not a positive growing trend, clearly shows they are generating revenue with BB10 hardware and always have even with the write downs. When you consider that a lot of the Passport sales didn't count towards that last $361 Million figure due to supply constraints, and many of those numbers before are lower due to the write downs, they haven't had much in the way of new hardware, and they don't count revenue now until the phone is activated by the end user now, it clearly shows that they are slowly making back their investment in BB10, and may have recouped the initial investments you describe.

    A Billion dollar write down isn't like taking a billion dollar pile of money and lighting it on fire.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Posted via CB10
    That graph doesn't help much at all in this discussion. How much of that shown revenue was from BBOS devices? Ya know, the devices that were outselling BB10 devices by a fairly healthy margin until only recently. The vast majority of the revenue you speak of probably came from the millions of legacy devices BlackBerry was still selling.

    For example, none of the revenue in Q1 2013 came from BB10.

    Also, revenue doesn't equal profit. How much hardware revenue did they make off of half priced, almost zero margin, dust-covered Z10s? I can't imagine it was enough to make the Z10 a profitable device for them.
    Last edited by Witmen; 03-17-15 at 10:07 PM.
    mornhavon likes this.
    03-17-15 09:56 PM
  20. Notcho's Avatar
    Can you name a single company that has lost over a billion dollars because they decided to make devices that run Android?

    We all can name a company who has lost over a billion dollars on BlackBerry 10. Point being, no matter how bad HTC, LG or Sony has done with Android, they've all done a lot better than BlackBerry has done with BB10. That is a undeniable fact.
    Yeah Google, buying Motorola for $12.5 Billion and selling it for $2.5 Billion is a loss.

    Posted via CB10
    03-18-15 01:54 AM
  21. georgethegreek's Avatar
    As long as BlackBerry Hub and push email then I switch. Sorry but the runtime is hit and miss and no Google play services does hurt

    Posted via CB10
    03-18-15 02:02 AM
  22. Soulstream's Avatar
    I really hate to say this, but my honest opinion is that BB would have been in a far better position now had they adopted Android instead of starting to develop BB10 (around 2010-2011). Android is customizable and they could have figured out how to make the hub integrated in Android.

    While I believe a lot of people here would not have bought such a phone, a lot of people that were turned off by the lack of ecosystem would have bought an android BB. Hell, even motorola sold 6.5 million phones in Q1 2014 (Cult of Android - Motorola sold a record 10 million smartphones in Q3 2014).
    03-18-15 03:26 AM
  23. nt300's Avatar
    Prepare yourself. They can't push a stagnant OS to enterprise forever.
    Your figment of your own imagination. What's with you? You know as well as many that BB10 is by far the best mobile OS. Give credit where credits due.
    If you reject this basic fact about BB10, then you must be a Fanboy or something.

    I've used all, WP8, iOS, Android, BBOS and BB10. From BB10, Android felt like a worthy upgrade. WP8 was and still is weird to me. Found the Q5 on sale so I bit into it. WOW, did not expect it, BB10 basically is the only mobile OS that's capable of giving Android and iOS users a True noticeable upgrade.

    Posted via CB10
    03-18-15 06:06 AM
  24. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    Your figment of your own imagination. What's with you? You know as well as many that BB10 is by far the best mobile OS. Give credit where credits due.
    Correction, it could be the best OS out there but isn't. At the rate of development from 10.0-10.2.1 we would have been seeing 10.4 leaks by now. 10.3.1 took too long and now blackberry is lagging behind again. Blackberry has the worst inhouse apps vs any other OS. Lacks an ecosystem, all native apps are getting pulled. Hub hasn't been updated in forever which was an amazing idea when it came out but if you had 20 headless apps with tons of notifications it would become a mess. 10.3.1 isn't anywhere near as stable as 10.2.1 was. Stuff just needs to be updated. The issue now is there is no devs left at blackberry.


    Posted via CB10
    03-18-15 08:26 AM
  25. birdman_38's Avatar
    You know as well as many that BB10 is by far the best mobile OS. Give credit where credits due.
    If you reject this basic fact about BB10, then you must be a Fanboy or something.

    I've used all, WP8, iOS, Android, BBOS and BB10. From BB10, Android felt like a worthy upgrade. WP8 was and still is weird to me. Found the Q5 on sale so I bit into it.
    Different strokes for different folks. I've used them all as well. I was actually a Windows Phone 7 user for a couple years and quite enjoyed it. When their app store couldn't keep pace, I switched to Android and found that's the most intuitive for me.

    Good to hear you've found something that works for you. BB10 is certainly a capable OS but the longer it doesn't have a viable ecosystem, the less it has a chance at survival.
    Witmen and Soulstream like this.
    03-18-15 09:29 AM
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