03-20-15 02:03 PM
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  1. nuff_said's Avatar
    Would it be worth BlackBerry to build an Android phone sacrificing the Android runtime? Perhaps it would but what people aren't thinking about are:

    Who's your market?
    What's your price point?
    What's your advertising budget to let the general public aware?
    Where's your market located?
    What's your growth op?
    What happens to our security conscious market?
    Will our current infrastructure be able to handle the new "status quo"?
    Since we do it best - security - what happens to our brand identity?
    Who's our competition today and 5-10 years from now?
    Etc...

    It wouldn't shock me to see JC and the crew already looking at this as an option especially with BlackBerry Suite being offered for enterprise. Chen is focusing on software and growing the BlackBerry brand in enterprise so an android option for consumer might be in the works. Chen is very good and playing the media with his statements and comments. He speaks in broad terms and never divulges anything specific. Would I buy an android phone from BlackBerry? Perhaps not but again I'm one consumer and can't speak for all.
    03-08-15 08:38 AM
  2. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Would it be worth BlackBerry to build an Android phone sacrificing the Android runtime? Perhaps it would but what people aren't thinking about are:

    Who's your market?
    What's your price point?
    What's your advertising budget to let the general public aware?
    Where's your market located?
    What's your growth op?
    What happens to our security conscious market?
    Will our current infrastructure be able to handle the new "status quo"?
    Since we do it best - security - what happens to our brand identity?
    Who's our competition today and 5-10 years from now?
    Etc...

    It wouldn't shock me to see JC and the crew already looking at this as an option especially with BlackBerry Suite being offered for enterprise. Chen is focusing on software and growing the BlackBerry brand in enterprise so an android option for consumer might be in the works. Chen is very good and playing the media with his statements and comments. He speaks in broad terms and never divulges anything specific. Would I buy an android phone from BlackBerry? Perhaps not but again I'm one consumer and can't speak for all.
    Several of those questions need not be asked since the only thing being lost from the current state of affairs is BB10's mediocre (at best) ability to run Android apps, which hard core BlackBerry security zealots shun anyway.

    It's not about switching to Android exclusively, but about offering a second line of BlackBerry hardware that runs proper Android + BlackBerry Experience features and (hopefully) UI.

    For those that want a physical keyboard, hub, a more organized UI, but still want all the apps that they've gotten used to,.. AND don't place much value in lock-down BES grade security (because they don't even have access to BES), this second line of BlackBerry devices would be very palatable.

    Conversely, for those that hate Android, a line of BB10 devices without a Android runtime (meaning freed RAM, lower battery usage, etc) would be very palatable.

    I don't see the issue.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 09:01 AM
  3. randomroyalty's Avatar
    Actually BlackBerry wouldn't be sacrificing the Android runtime. Android is actually a runtime itself...java apps are compiled in Dalvik (ART since Android 5).


    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 09:02 AM
  4. JeepBB's Avatar
    It's much more than a kernel. It's a core OS, like Linux is to android and BSD is to iOS.
    Where the kernel stops and the rest of the OS begins is more of a philosophical question IMO but, lets not go there.

    Instead, let's focus on the business case. What benefit would be gained that would justify the cost and time it would take to do this?
    03-08-15 09:05 AM
  5. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    The "app problem" would be solved. Would that solve the "device sales problem"? Nobody knows...
    03-08-15 09:08 AM
  6. randomroyalty's Avatar
    Where the kernel stops and the rest of the OS begins is more of a philosophical question IMO but, lets not go there.

    Instead, let's focus on the business case. What benefit would be gained that would justify the cost and time it would take to do this?
    It's actually a very technical question :-)

    The problem is long term both BSD and Linux (as well as Windows) are reaching the end of their useful lives if we look where computing is going (IoT being the best example). And since they are "open" are inherently not secure (not without jumping through some serious trickery that is pretty shaky, like Knox or Blackphone). Apple and Google know this.

    I could see Google allowing a version of Android that is closed source or even building it themselves on a more secure base such as QNX. I always thought Microsoft would stand the most to gain by buying BlackBerry and of course Samsung, which as we know is trying to break free from Google. Since Samsung is the largest consumer products manufacturer in the world and will want to keep that dominance when IoT emerges, this should be a no brainer.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 09:33 AM
  7. Toodeurep's Avatar
    The "app problem" would be solved. Would that solve the "device sales problem"? Nobody knows...
    Fair enough but we have some information about existing Android manufacturers and there is little good news in there.

    Some of the highlights...
    Market share up.
    Overall profitability of the market up 30%.
    Profits of AOS manufacturers down 50%.
    $ per unit sold down 20%.
    Huge Chinese manufacturers that can undercut current market by 50% and they have access to the exact same OS you do.

    About BB...
    They don't seem to value high-end device specs.
    They have to move really slowly with new devices due to their size.
    They still believe they can ask a premium price for their devices.
    03-08-15 09:53 AM
  8. nuff_said's Avatar
    Several of those questions need not be asked since the only thing being lost from the current state of affairs is BB10's mediocre (at best) ability to run Android apps, which hard core BlackBerry security zealots shun anyway.

    It's not about switching to Android exclusively, but about offering a second line of BlackBerry hardware that runs proper Android + BlackBerry Experience features and (hopefully) UI.

    For those that want a physical keyboard, hub, a more organized UI, but still want all the apps that they've gotten used to,.. AND don't place much value in lock-down BES grade security (because they don't even have access to BES), this second line of BlackBerry devices would be very palatable.

    Conversely, for those that hate Android, a line of BB10 devices without a Android runtime (meaning freed RAM, lower battery usage, etc) would be very palatable.

    I don't see the issue.

    Posted via CB10
    Those questions are mandatory especially when changing your product line, goals, and vision for the future. Chen even said in a recent interview in China you can buy Android phones for less than he would have to spend on parts. IIRC it was $50. So there goes a large portion of the market in Asia.

    The name BlackBerry in Japan translates to nonexistent sales. India the phones are over priced and barely sell.

    In the UK BlackBerry sales are floundering. In NAM BlackBerry has a horrible image in the public.

    LAM and Africa are markets I'm not familiar with so not at liberty to speculate. Any else can chime in would be appreciated.

    So a BlackBerry phone with Android OS marked as a BlackBerry would face the same obstacles globally it currently faces running BlackBerry 10

    Or a BlackBerry phone running Android not marked as BlackBerry would face the same up hill battle majority of Android phones do today.
    03-08-15 09:55 AM
  9. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Those questions are mandatory especially when changing your product line, goals, and vision for the future. Chen even said in a recent interview in China you can buy Android phones for less than he would have to spend on parts. IIRC it was $50. So there goes a large portion of the market in Asia.

    The name BlackBerry in Japan translates to nonexistent sales. India the phones are over priced and barely sell.

    In the UK BlackBerry sales are floundering. In NAM BlackBerry has a horrible image in the public.

    LAM and Africa are markets I'm not familiar with so not at liberty to speculate. Any else can chime in would be appreciated.

    So a BlackBerry phone with Android OS marked as a BlackBerry would face the same obstacles globally it currently faces running BlackBerry 10

    Or a BlackBerry phone running Android not marked as BlackBerry would face the same up hill battle majority of Android phones do today.
    I don't think the marketing would be as challenging as you imagine. Most everyone is familiar with Android. There would be very little re-education required to get them to at least look at an Android device designed by BlackBerry. And if we're talking about a physical keyboard device,.. the compelling answer to the question of "why?" would be even easier to make.

    In essence, BlackBerry would only have to market the "why", instead of trying to mount a battle against the mountain of "why nots" associated with BB10 by the mass consumer. And the news about BlackBerry making an Android device would stir enough interest to get people talking about it.

    Of course BlackBerry would actually have to execute properly and make a good device, and we are assuming the positive productivity features of BB10 would be desirable to at least some portion of the entire Android user base. Maybe they aren't, but then that doesn't leave much hope for BB10 itself does it?

    At the end of the day there are practicalities and details that would vary from region to region, but that's the case for any product. Not every product is sold everywhere, because the buyers are just not there.

    My point is that the good parts of BB10 will be dragged to the bottom of the ocean along with the sinking ship that is BB10 itself, unless something is done. Chen clearly sees this and has decided to offer parts of BB10 as apps on other platforms. That's fine, but what I would prefer is something that's properly integrated by BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    walt63 and ljfong like this.
    03-08-15 10:15 AM
  10. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Actually BlackBerry wouldn't be sacrificing the Android runtime. Android is actually a runtime itself...java apps are compiled in Dalvik (ART since Android 5).


    Posted via CB10
    By sacrificing I meant losing/removing it from BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 10:16 AM
  11. Tatwi's Avatar
    I don't think the marketing would be as challenging as you imagine.
    It's good to have dreams.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 02:09 PM
  12. nuff_said's Avatar
    I don't think the marketing would be as challenging as you imagine. Most everyone is familiar with Android. There would be very little re-education required to get them to at least look at an Android device designed by BlackBerry. And if we're talking about a physical keyboard device,.. the compelling answer to the question of "why?" would be even easier to make.

    In essence, BlackBerry would only have to market the "why", instead of trying to mount a battle against the mountain of "why nots" associated with BB10 by the mass consumer. And the news about BlackBerry making an Android device would stir enough interest to get people talking about it.

    Of course BlackBerry would actually have to execute properly and make a good device, and we are assuming the positive productivity features of BB10 would be desirable to at least some portion of the entire Android user base. Maybe they aren't, but then that doesn't leave much hope for BB10 itself does it?

    At the end of the day there are practicalities and details that would vary from region to region, but that's the case for any product. Not every product is sold everywhere, because the buyers are just not there.

    My point is that the good parts of BB10 will be dragged to the bottom of the ocean along with the sinking ship that is BB10 itself, unless something is done. Chen clearly sees this and has decided to offer parts of BB10 as apps on other platforms. That's fine, but what I would prefer is something that's properly integrated by BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Marketing is the number one challenge companies face, and marketing the "why" is a key part in increasing your market share. It identifies brand and introduces yourself to consumers. BlackBerry struggled with this and continues to do so.

    With an Android phone their lost in the crowd. Yes, having the best BlackBerry 10 features available on an Android phone would differentiate the device when compared to Samsung, LG, or even Nokia, but I don't think it would sell. I'm sure JC knows this, and willing to bet my bottom dollar it has been, or is currently being, discussed in BlackBerry.

    Would an Android pkb phone sell? Maybe, but how many? Considering current BlackBerry 10 pkb users are less than half - heck let's split it 50-50 - of BlackBerry's current market share they represent 0.2% of b . I highly doubt the keyboard would attract that many users back from competing platforms even with the best advertising campaign. The biggest players in Android are spending barrels of money in advertising just to stay afloat: Samsung, LG and HTC. They are all rolling around with bigger advertising budgets that BlackBerry can dream of and barely making a dent. Apple is gaining market share again on Samsung fast and furiously in developed and developing parts of the world. Yes Android is the biggest OS globally but individual companies are struggling. BlackBerry would suffer the most.

    You mention BlackBerry would need to execute properly and make a good device. BlackBerry has suffered from executing in the past so often it's part of their DNA. Lol. They are making good devices but pricing continues to be a challenge. Look at the price points of the Z10, PlayBook, Z3, and now the Leap. We can use the Leap since it's the most current device. Starting at $275 for some pretty old specs. What's Android manufacturers bread and butter? Specs (e.g. 20MP camera, octocore processor, 4GB of ram. Quad HD screen). I don't think BlackBerry would be able to execute or price competitively.

    I agree there are practicalities and details which vary from one region to another but that goes back to marketing. I wouldn't market a product without knowing my target audience, and BlackBerry has done this previously. Successful companies sell their products everywhere by demonstrating why you need the product using those practicalities and details to their advantage: McDonald's, Coca Cola, Apple, Google just to name a few.

    The best parts of BlackBerry are hopefully not going to fail. I think JC has a plan and we're seeing it with BlackBerry Suite. I don't think he's going to reveal a road map to anyone outside his trusted inner circle. Imagine if a deadline is missed. The media and public would go crazy and the stock price would take a hit. BlackBerry doesn't need that.

    I think, at the end of the day BlackBerry has found their strengths - privacy, physical keyboard devices, reputable brand name - their target audience and market - enterprise (all tiers) and global respectively. JC is executing on his plan. Right now only he knows if android is in the works and about a handful of people working for BlackBerry. From reading other threads in the forum it looks like they are testing Android. I hope that's not true and the Android phones are being used to test out BlackBerry software options like Suite and Blend on non BlackBerry devices.

    BTW - good original rebuttal. Let's keep this going!
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    03-08-15 03:15 PM
  13. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    ...
    Android handset manufacturers are dominating shipments in a market that grew by 30% this year, but their profits fell by 50%. I don't want to give away too many trade secrets guys but...

    ...
    Anyone calculate / extrapolate from above figures when we can get Android phones for free... ;-)

    2020..? Or Earlier?


      "Oh Classic, you are the fairest here so true. But Passport is a thousand times more powerful than you..." (no offense, Classic is a great device, when it's charged)  
    03-08-15 08:57 PM
  14. walt63's Avatar
    Why in the world are we debating about how Android on BlackBerry won't sell. Last time i checked BB10 isn't doing spit, so why not diversify the offerings with a more recognized OS?

    Its such a weak argument.

    I bet that if you place two Z30s next to each other in front of customers and tell them that one has Android and the other has BlackBerry, they would choose the Android version. The reason why is simple. With the exception of Samsung, Android users buy Android, not the brand of the device. Just ask people one day what device they have. Common answers will be, iPhone, Samsung, or Android. You'll rarely hear them say, I have an HTC, Sony, or Motorola.

    My point is that, BlackBerry will have a chance to succeed based on the wide acceptance of Android in the mobile industry. A much better chance than only having BB10 devices.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    03-09-15 12:46 AM
  15. Uzi's Avatar
    Why in the world are we debating about how Android on BlackBerry won't sell. Last time i checked BB10 isn't doing spit, so why not diversify the offerings with a more recognized OS?

    Its such a weak argument.

    I bet that if you place two Z30s next to each other in front of customers and tell them that one has Android and the other has BlackBerry, they would choose the Android version. The reason why is simple. With the exception of Samsung, Android users buy Android, not the brand of the device. Just ask people one day what device they have. Common answers will be, iPhone, Samsung, or Android. You'll rarely hear them say, I have an HTC, Sony, or Motorola.

    My point is that, BlackBerry will have a chance to succeed based on the wide acceptance of Android in the mobile industry. A much better chance than only having BB10 devices.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Yes a lot of android fans in the world will try it, I think



    Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on 4G Altel network
    03-09-15 01:19 AM
  16. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Actually BlackBerry wouldn't be sacrificing the Android runtime. Android is actually a runtime itself...java apps are compiled in Dalvik (ART since Android 5).
    Well, that's not entirely true. Most apps which are light run on Dalvik/ART, which is the Android sdk; but, there is a less used Android ndk as well for more demanding apps such as games. The ndk requires programming in native C/C++.

    I bet that if you place two Z30s next to each other in front of customers and tell them that one has Android and the other has BlackBerry, they would choose the Android version.
    Android is like Windows, in my opinion. The bulk of its users are captive and don't actually care for the OS one way or the other.

    Consumers generally don't like alternative OSes, though. Just like how they don't want to use Linux, they don't want to deal with BB10 or Windows Phone or WebOS, etc. etc. You're never going to convince most consumers to try an alternative OS unless for a very good reason and there is no such reason on BB10.

    Doing the same thing but maybe faster than another OS is not good enough. Linux has a bunch of features not available on Windows and even that is not good enough. You need features not available on the other OS and that people need.

    Why in the world are we debating about how Android on BlackBerry won't sell. Last time i checked BB10 isn't doing spit, so why not diversify the offerings with a more recognized OS?
    Well said. It is true that manufacturing Android devices may be another losing venture; but, it should be evident it would have been the less painful losing venture of the two at this point. This should be evidenced by the $200 Z10s, which should have flown off shelves with Android given the specs but it took over a year to liquidate with BB10.

    The question that faces Blackberry management now is that should it give up on handsets entirely? Should it continue the seemingly impossible and costly fight with BB10? Or should it take a middle route with Android and hope to break even while staying in the handset business?

    I'd like to remark that the hardware does have strategic value to Blackberry's enterprise software business so if it's between losing more money with BB10, less money with Android, or no money by quitting hardware, there is a reason to choose the middle route.

    Another point to note is that Android handsets may merely be for posturing. Many businesses are deciding against BES because it is often either rightfully or wrongfully perceived to be BB OS7/BB10 oriented software that happens to also support iOS and Android. If Blackberry produced Android devices instead, it would show to these clients that it is actually all-in Android.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 03-09-15 at 03:49 AM.
    JeepBB, AnimalPak200 and walt63 like this.
    03-09-15 03:15 AM
  17. GLTruesdale's Avatar
    Android apps are better as a complement....

    Posted via CB10
    03-09-15 07:26 AM
  18. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Yes a lot of android fans in the world will try it, I think



    Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on 4G Altel network
    ... and find out some things have been "castrated" for security and privacy reasons, BGR & Co. will spew bad press, and we're back to square one...

    ?? :-D

      "Oh Classic, you are the fairest here so true. But Passport is a thousand times more powerful than you..." (no offense, Classic is a great device, when it's charged)  
    03-10-15 03:54 AM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Why in the world are we debating about how Android on BlackBerry won't sell. Last time i checked BB10 isn't doing spit, so why not diversify the offerings with a more recognized OS?

    Its such a weak argument.

    I bet that if you place two Z30s next to each other in front of customers and tell them that one has Android and the other has BlackBerry, they would choose the Android version. The reason why is simple. With the exception of Samsung, Android users buy Android, not the brand of the device. Just ask people one day what device they have. Common answers will be, iPhone, Samsung, or Android. You'll rarely hear them say, I have an HTC, Sony, or Motorola.

    My point is that, BlackBerry will have a chance to succeed based on the wide acceptance of Android in the mobile industry. A much better chance than only having BB10 devices.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Samsung exists. And because of that, users would opt for the samsung option over the other two.
    03-10-15 05:24 PM
  20. NecroSemen's Avatar
    Well If it looked exactly like the BB10 interface and had the Hub and gestures of bb10 then it's okay I guess.

    But then again I highly doubt android would optimize their apps to run on a keyboard device, so it might be the end for the qwerty phones. And the keyboard is one of the main reasons I use BlackBerry. Yeah, so I would not want that.

    Posted via CB10 from my BlackBerry Q10
    03-11-15 12:31 AM
  21. asherN's Avatar

    Another point to note is that Android handsets may merely be for posturing. Many businesses are deciding against BES because it is often either rightfully or wrongfully perceived to be BB OS7/BB10 oriented software that happens to also support iOS and Android. If Blackberry produced Android devices instead, it would show to these clients that it is actually all-in Android.
    A perception that is greatly helped by marketing the product with and without Android/iOS support. Last time I checked, at different price points. If I have to secure a fleet of non-BB handsets, i can go to the MDM that does that or I can go to the one that does BB and can also do non-BB. BB needs to come up with a name other than BES and have a single, price competitive, product that secures BB, Android and iOS.Not something where Android and iOS seem like an afterthought.
    03-11-15 02:51 PM
  22. systemvolker's Avatar
    Im not sure about that, Op but whats in my mind until now is full blackberry 10.3.1 enabled to be installed and run on my moto x 2k14 or any android "Original Equipment Manufacturers" devices.

    Moto X 2k14 Posted via
    03-11-15 03:26 PM
  23. grahamf's Avatar
    What would make me buy an Android device from Blackberry when I can get virtually identical (yet cheaper, faster, and/or generally nicer) Android devices from Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC, etc? Android as an OS does not play well with physical keyboards so Blackberry loses that advantage, and the rest of the differences become increasingly small. Especially with Blackberry partnering with Samsung.

    In fact I believe Samsung devices are effectively becoming Android Blackberry anyways, with all of the BES integration and such.
    03-11-15 05:46 PM
  24. Uzi's Avatar
    Would a full Android BlackBerry device be worth sacrificing the BB10 Android Runtime? Perhaps.-android-blackberry.png


    We all friends 😁

    Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on 4G Altel network
    Tre Lawrence and MarsupilamiX like this.
    03-12-15 07:16 AM
  25. Dougie011's Avatar
    Is it possible that we are looking at this backwards? Instead of Blackberry making an android phone, what if Samsung decided to make an android phone with Blackberry's UI? Blackberry could keep their phones secure, and Samsung could have use of blackberry's UI. Samsung has name recognition and enough money to put behind it. This probably won't happen, but it is something to think about.
    03-12-15 09:10 AM
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