03-20-15 01:03 PM
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  1. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    BB owns QNX, they've built BB10 already, and have some real smart engineers. Here's what I think is a viable possibility:

    • BlackBerry 10 loses its Android Runtime
    • Using their QNX Hypervisor technology, run a full OHA-compliant Android with Google Play Services
    • BB10 apps that are actual Android apps will either be discontinued (like Air apps), or they'll have them somehow running on the virtualized full Android . Probably not worth the effort if the same app is in Google Play anyway.
    • Notifications from this other OS will be piped back to the main BB10 OS for seamless integration, and the user will only see the BB10 UI, which effectively becomes a "skin", even though technically it is running underneath Android and still supports BB10 apps.
    • Have BES12 be able to secure the BB10 as well as the virtualized Android so that Work Android apps can be deployed too. Should also be treated in a unified, seamless manner. The virtualized Android could be disabled entirely via BES12 or treated entirely as part of the personal side of Balance.
    03-06-15 01:18 PM
  2. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Is it possible for BlackBerry to create Dual Boot phones? The user can switch from BB10 to Android and vice versa. Look at Onda tablets it lets the user switch between Win 8.1 and Android OS. It would be great if user can choose the OS while booting or switch seemlessly from one OS to another when required.
    Dual Boot meaning what? as in if i'm typing an email and then want to check snapchat, i have to restart my phone or dual boot meaning the container method Bla1ze said? If i have to restart my phone for apps, then that's not really productive.

    I'm all for Blackberry closing the app gap for good and for them to start promoting their security.
    03-06-15 01:55 PM
  3. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    everyryone else caves in...so, why not ...or would a fight called BB vs iOS/Android be fun to watch? ?Nokia, the last fan of Windows Phone, to make the switch to Android - Puget Sound Business Journal
    03-06-15 04:50 PM
  4. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I don't care too much for android runtime and I care less for google anything.

    I would gladly give up the android runtime to keep having BB10 and enable OHA certified android BlackBerry phones available if it helps the survival of BlackBerry as a whole.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by The Big Picture; 03-06-15 at 05:24 PM.
    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    03-06-15 05:14 PM
  5. The Big Picture's Avatar
    Honestly, thinking about this just makes me feel like someone p*ssed in my cornflakes. On the one hand, I believe that doing something like this will help save the company. On the other hand, as a consumer, this is not what I want. I'd be perfectly happy with a BB10 device with no Android runtime. I didn't run out (literally) and buy a BB10 phone cause I wanted to run Android apps. I chose BlackBerry because I agree with their overall philosophy in the design of their phones and OS. I like the fact that it is a secured system but I can still side load apps if I choose.

    To put it simply I don't use Android because I believe it is too open, and I don't use Apple because I believe it is too closed.

    So, out of your choices I'd have to go with BB10 with no runtime, but I see that as leaving a huge problem for me. Would there actually be any apps left for BB10. There would be almost no incentive to make a native BB10 app, being that you could just put your Android app on the BlackBerry-Android and satisfy most consumers. Also, I have a Passport and there are only like 4 apps that I really want. Two of them are Android apps, one of them is an actual native Built for BB10 app (Solitaire City, the only game I really play), and the last one is an abomination of a yet to be released limbo. That last one is Bloomberg, and its really a shame the native Passport version is yet to be released.

    Personally, as a consumer, I just don't like the idea of any of this. I have BB10 because I want BB10, not some hybrid of BB and Android.
    This

    Posted via CB10
    03-06-15 05:23 PM
  6. LazyEvul's Avatar
    BB owns QNX, they've built BB10 already, and have some real smart engineers. Here's what I think is a viable possibility:

    • BlackBerry 10 loses its Android Runtime
    • Using their QNX Hypervisor technology, run a full OHA-compliant Android with Google Play Services
    • BB10 apps that are actual Android apps will either be discontinued (like Air apps), or they'll have them somehow running on the virtualized full Android . Probably not worth the effort if the same app is in Google Play anyway.
    • Notifications from this other OS will be piped back to the main BB10 OS for seamless integration, and the user will only see the BB10 UI, which effectively becomes a "skin", even though technically it is running underneath Android and still supports BB10 apps.
    • Have BES12 be able to secure the BB10 as well as the virtualized Android so that Work Android apps can be deployed too. Should also be treated in a unified, seamless manner. The virtualized Android could be disabled entirely via BES12 or treated entirely as part of the personal side of Balance.
    A virtualized Android contained within another OS cannot be OHA-compliant by its very nature. Google wants to lock manufacturers, and hence users, into their ecosystem - if you have Android running within another OS, then theoretically it's quite feasible to start transitioning away not just from Google, but from Android altogether. You already have everything you need. It's the same reason why the current runtime isn't OHA-compliant.
    AnimalPak200 likes this.
    03-06-15 06:09 PM
  7. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    A virtualized Android contained within another OS cannot be OHA-compliant by its very nature. Google wants to lock manufacturers, and hence users, into their ecosystem - if you have Android running within another OS, then theoretically it's quite feasible to start transitioning away not just from Google, but from Android altogether. You already have everything you need. It's the same reason why the current runtime isn't OHA-compliant.
    Exactly... unless there is some technicality in the language that we don't understand (and somehow having a hypervisor control a virtualized OS instance is legally different than having a less-robust OS control a virtualized OS instance (hint: it's not)), it seems that a hypervisor-based solution would just end up giving us perhaps a better performing Android Runtime,.. that still can't use the increasing number of apps relying on the Google services framework.
    03-06-15 06:49 PM
  8. MmmHmm's Avatar
    A significant factor in favor of BB going android is that it would free BB to focus on what it is good at: security and productivity. As it is, BB has to continue to develop an entire OS while trying to keep up with Google and Apple on all the latest features. How much developer time and money went into developing BlackBerry Assistant? Even after all that, it still came out way way later than Google Now and Siri, and it is in several ways inferior. How is that a good use of BlackBerry's scarce resources? If BlackBerry went with full Android it could focus its energy on things like security, a suite of pre-installed productivity apps, hub-based skin, balance, etc. BlackBerry would also still dominate the physical keyboard market even with android. Let Google do the heavy lifting in developing the core OS. BB10 is good, but it has already failed. It's never going to reach critical mass to get its own ecosystem and I just don't see the point of an OS without an ecosystem. It can hardly be called a platform when practically nothing runs on it (except through a runtime of another OS).
    03-07-15 08:22 AM
  9. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    Well stated...
    A significant factor in favor of BB going android is that it would free BB to focus on what it is good at: security and productivity. As it is, BB has to continue to develop an entire OS while trying to keep up with Google and Apple on all the latest features. How much developer time and money went into developing BlackBerry Assistant? Even after all that, it still came out way way later than Google Now and Siri, and it is in several ways inferior. How is that a good use of BlackBerry's scarce resources? If BlackBerry went with full Android it could focus its energy on things like security, a suite of pre-installed productivity apps, hub-based skin, balance, etc. BlackBerry would also still dominate the physical keyboard market even with android. Let Google do the heavy lifting in developing the core OS. BB10 is good, but it has already failed. It's never going to reach critical mass to get its own ecosystem and I just don't see the point of an OS without an ecosystem. It can hardly be called a platform when practically nothing runs on it (except through a runtime of another OS).
    03-07-15 09:16 AM
  10. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Exactly... unless there is some technicality in the language that we don't understand (and somehow having a hypervisor control a virtualized OS instance is legally different than having a less-robust OS control a virtualized OS instance (hint: it's not)), it seems that a hypervisor-based solution would just end up giving us perhaps a better performing Android Runtime,.. that still can't use the increasing number of apps relying on the Google services framework.
    Google might allow this specific implementation, but BlackBerry would need to explicitly get Google's blessing. If BlackBerry showed an Android logo during the boot process, had Google apps pre-installed, etc.

    I love BB10 as it is now. If the only way to get Google Play Services is to go full Android (and not in the hypervisor setup I mentioned), then I don't want it. BlackBerry could just as easily partner with Samsung to have their BlackBerry experience apps pre-installed or something. BlackBerry shouldn't offer a pure Android phone themselves. They should just get out of the hardware business if it comes to that. They could offer PKB devices through partnerships with Samsung and others with some co-branding.

    Basically, I don't want to lose BlackBerry 10 unless and until the hardware business is dead. Considering they are making money on it and it's were they make most of their money still, I don't see hardware going away for a few years. Not until software and services really takes off. Even then, I'm hopeful for they'll maintain their hardware and BB10 development as a profitable niche.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-15 09:34 AM
  11. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    Full android BlackBerry would wind up on chinese knock-off websites & ebay...
    03-07-15 12:05 PM
  12. Carterbits's Avatar
    I've been saying for a long time that BBRY should give us a way to disable the Android runtime. I want the RAM back and fewer attack vectors.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    03-07-15 01:51 PM
  13. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I've been saying for a long time that BBRY should give us a way to disable the Android runtime. I want the RAM back and fewer attack vectors.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Interesting, so another argument in support of an android-less BB10 is improved performance, (possibly) improved battery life, and arguably reduced vulnerabilities.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-15 02:08 PM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    They had $361 Million revenue on hardware sales of 2 Million devices last quarter according to the link provided.

    Posted via CB10
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    03-07-15 02:34 PM
  15. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    What is the actual footprint of the android runtime? Would BlackBerry not have interest in lookingat such items as cyanogen mod which I have on my defunct HP Touchpad giving it a new lifespan... the only thing for the touchpad would be to delete the webOS despite it being great due to support death...
    I've been saying for a long time that BBRY should give us a way to disable the Android runtime. I want the RAM back and fewer attack vectors.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    03-07-15 02:40 PM
  16. randomroyalty's Avatar
    I think building Android on top of QNX rather than Linux would be better than stretching Linux into something it can't be, e.g secure. Too easy to mess with the kernel.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-15 05:16 PM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    I think building Android on top of QNX rather than Linux would be better than stretching Linux into something it can't be, e.g secure.
    Is that possible?
    03-07-15 11:36 PM
  18. Concession's Avatar
    It'd be a terrible android device. It'd have subpar specs and guaranteed locked bootloader so no way to install cyanogen to get rid of the google crapware. It would be worse than a BB10 phone in every way. Would not buy.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 12:33 AM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    They had $361 Million revenue on hardware sales of 2 Million devices last quarter according to the link provided.

    Posted via CB10
    Why let facts get in the way of a good story?

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 01:35 AM
  20. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    A significant factor in favor of BB going android is that it would free BB to focus on what it is good at: security and productivity. As it is, BB has to continue to develop an entire OS while trying to keep up with Google and Apple on all the latest features. How much developer time and money went into developing BlackBerry Assistant? Even after all that, it still came out way way later than Google Now and Siri, and it is in several ways inferior. How is that a good use of BlackBerry's scarce resources? If BlackBerry went with full Android it could focus its energy on things like security, a suite of pre-installed productivity apps, hub-based skin, balance, etc. BlackBerry would also still dominate the physical keyboard market even with android. Let Google do the heavy lifting in developing the core OS. BB10 is good, but it has already failed. It's never going to reach critical mass to get its own ecosystem and I just don't see the point of an OS without an ecosystem. It can hardly be called a platform when practically nothing runs on it (except through a runtime of another OS).
    Bb10 is pretty much built out. It needs bug fixes and enhancements to some components but is now in a good place. And, with that said, how much has iOS really changed in the last few years?

    Wrt to the voice assistant, isn't it Maluba? BlackBerry didn't have to do much there. The core functionality was already there.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 01:42 AM
  21. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Google might allow this specific implementation, but BlackBerry would need to explicitly get Google's blessing. If BlackBerry showed an Android logo during the boot process, had Google apps pre-installed, etc.

    I love BB10 as it is now. If the only way to get Google Play Services is to go full Android (and not in the hypervisor setup I mentioned), then I don't want it. BlackBerry could just as easily partner with Samsung to have their BlackBerry experience apps pre-installed or something. BlackBerry shouldn't offer a pure Android phone themselves. They should just get out of the hardware business if it comes to that. They could offer PKB devices through partnerships with Samsung and others with some co-branding.

    Basically, I don't want to lose BlackBerry 10 unless and until the hardware business is dead. Considering they are making money on it and it's were they make most of their money still, I don't see hardware going away for a few years. Not until software and services really takes off. Even then, I'm hopeful for they'll maintain their hardware and BB10 development as a profitable niche.

    Posted via CB10
    Assuming they are making money on hw taking all of their patents into account then I agree it makes sense for them to stay in the os game. Because if they leave there will be a day when they want back in and it will be much harder for them then it is now.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 01:45 AM
  22. CrackberryQ's Avatar
    You guys know that leaders in android devices are having a hard time keeping up, Sony, HTC even samsung lately lost its thrown!

    Android OS is the most used OS but taking each manufacturer on its own you will notice struggles in device decisions as rough if not rougher than what BlackBerry is facing, so no full android BlackBerry would be the end of the device, division.

    On the other hand the whole virtualization approach can be grand grand evolution in device manufacturing! If BlackBerry can pull of proper virtualization of android on its devices giving full android compatibility, and maybe IOS and windows compatibility, and if the likes of samsung and sailfish keep their OWN OS's and provide similar solutions, a step towards APP neutrality would be made, and true competition would be achieved.

    I hate using android devices, used them all and simply hated them, but love the availability of anything u desire in their app store!

    IOS is better for me but still doesn't match BB10 for my use yet their app store also entices me!

    I believe OEMS should shed the android dependability and embrace android compatibility!!

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 01:55 AM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    Is that possible?
    Few things are impossible, but it wouldn't be easy or cheap to do.

    QNX is a just a kernel and, despite the CB hype, it does much the same job as other kernels do for the OS that sits around it.

    I'd be surprised if anyone could construct a viable business case showing the benefits of switching kernels.
    03-08-15 06:27 AM
  24. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Haha! At the end of the day, I'm for anything that sees BlackBerry as a company survive.
    As a smartphone company
    03-08-15 06:44 AM
  25. randomroyalty's Avatar
    Few things are impossible, but it wouldn't be easy or cheap to do.

    QNX is a just a kernel and, despite the CB hype, it does much the same job as other kernels do for the OS that sits around it.

    I'd be surprised if anyone could construct a viable business case showing the benefits of switching kernels.
    It's much more than a kernel. It's a core OS, like Linux is to android and BSD is to iOS.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 07:00 AM
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