12-19-13 06:07 PM
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  1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Yes, the company is insanely undervalued. The stock market says BlackBerry is only valued at $2.9 Billion. BlackBerry almost has that in cash alone, not to mention their physical assets and patents. So if you were literally just to liquidate the company, the company is worth way more than $2.9 Billion.
    The problem with that is that you aren't looking at BB's bills. A company like BB will have long-term contracts with many other companies, and will have made purchase commitments and have penalties for canceling some contracts (which is how you secure lower prices). They still have a very large headcount and lots of other expenses, but revenues continue to fall.

    You can't just add up what BB has in its Asset column and ignore the Liability column. That's Accounting 101: you don't know the whole picture until you total up both columns and see where you are at.

    Many people have gotten to see BB's books recently. Mostly, they ran away after doing so - not one big company was willing to put in a bid, and even Watsa's $9 "floor" bid didn't get funded because the banks (who saw the books and understand numbers and accounting) were unwilling to finance it. Given that so much information about BB has recently been available "on the street", to say that they don't know what's going on at BB in general makes no sense. There has never been a time when people knew better what BB's financial situation was.
    ccbs and JeepBB like this.
    12-12-13 05:12 PM
  2. codehut's Avatar
    The biggest problem with the logic of saying that "BlackBerry has $X in cash at the moment, why is the market valuing them at less than $X" is because investors are wisely anticipating that BlackBerry is not going to up and sell themselves for cash now. Rather they're anticipating that BlackBerry is stubbornly going to continue to drive itself in to the dirt blowing its cash reserves as it has been for the last few quarters. You have to remember - market price is all about predicting the future value of a company. And everyone is betting that the future value of BlackBerry will be near zero...given how things are going, I think it's a good bet.
    12-12-13 05:21 PM
  3. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    You need another liver like you need a hole in your head, baby babe.
    12-12-13 06:14 PM
  4. FSeverino's Avatar
    Lets face it announcing the 4500 job losses without any details was one of many dumb moves.

    All it did was **** off staff, scare off app developers and partners.

    Perhaps you can enlighten us all as to how many of the 4500 have been fired and how many are still to be cut?
    I'm not saying that BlackBerry did a good job of it. But when a company says they will Fire 4500 in the near future and a couple weeks later 1500 lose thier jobs, then 80... well. do the math.



    Posted via CB10
    12-12-13 11:08 PM
  5. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    No, your comparison is seriously flawed. Over $2 Billion cash on hand is $2 Billion cash on hand. Period. It isn't what I feel it is worth.
    What if the cash is spoken for already? For example. Let's say you have a $1M in cash in your bank account. Let's say however, you signed a contract that says you would buy $1M in widgets over the next few months. Sure you have $1M cash on hand, but very soon, you have to pay it out. Certainly the $1M is worth $1M, but your net worth is actually the value of those widgets, and not the $1M in your bank account.

    That's BlackBerry's position. They have purchase commitments that amount to over $2B. That $2B will very soon be so many pieces of smartphone widgets.

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/industrie...dling-options/
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-13-13 12:53 AM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    From the title I was expecting the clowns to be Heins and Boulben. They had more to do with the current debacle than an analyst.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-13-13 06:30 AM
  7. europolska00's Avatar
    Does not work that way.....

    And having Cash today does not relate to having Cash in three months or six months.

    Or if the worst happened and they closed the doors tomorrow and auctioned off everything.... they still have commitments that have to meet with suppliers and many of their customers, do you know how much that is? And that is best case for the stock value. Some expectations are that someone will still come in a buy the whole at a discount and sell it themselves and reap the profit.

    The true "value" may never be realized by shareholders, and the Stock Price reflects that.
    It does not work that way because you say so? Thank you for edifying me.

    You keep making arguments that don't make sense. "And having Cash today does not relate to having Cash in three months or six months. " I don't even know how I can argue with someone who can say that and see how it makes no sense.

    We are talking about the market giving the value today, right now, this second, all variables remaining the same, at $2.9 Billion. And they have that cash, and assets, right now, this second. So we're saying right now the sp today, the market is saying cash is worth less than cash is. By your faulty logic since we don't know how much they'll have on hand in six months we could just make up any value. We could say well in six months they "could be" up 100 Billion in cash and value of assets. Or they could have $0. So because of those suppositions the liquid value of the company today changes.

    You're confusing the liquid cash value of the company today which I'm talking about, with perceived potential value of the company which is what you are talking about. You are correct but, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm done trying to convince you.

    Good day.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-13 07:48 AM
  8. Cashgap's Avatar
    It does not work that way because you say so? Thank you for edifying me.

    You keep making arguments that don't make sense. "And having Cash today does not relate to having Cash in three months or six months. " I don't even know how I can argue with someone who can say that and see how it makes no sense.

    We are talking about the market giving the value today, right now, this second, all variables remaining the same, at $2.9 Billion. And they have that cash, and assets, right now, this second. So we're saying right now the sp today, the market is saying cash is worth less than cash is. By your faulty logic since we don't know how much they'll have on hand in six months we could just make up any value. We could say well in six months they "could be" up 100 Billion in cash and value of assets. Or they could have $0. So because of those suppositions the liquid value of the company today changes.

    You're confusing the liquid cash value of the company today which I'm talking about, with perceived potential value of the company which is what you are talking about. You are correct but, we're not talking about the same thing. I'm done trying to convince you.

    Good day.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm not sure if you are working hard not to understand this, or what, but I'll try to dumb it down even further. This thread has some great explanations which you dismiss because they don't support your incorrect position.

    I'll try another.

    Let's say a firm named "Strawberry" is for sale.

    Strawberry has $2.9B of cash. Strawberry has no other assets. Strawberry has no liabilities. Strawberry's income is 1% interest they earn annually on the $2.9B. Strawberry's expenses are $2,000 of accounting fees each year.

    In the case of Strawberry, you are correct... it should be valued at around the value of the cash.

    I hope you aren't under the misconception that if someone purchased all of Blackberry's stock, they get the cash free of all the obligations and the expected losses ahead? Also keep in mind, the $1B loan has a built in stockholder dilution provision which means the lender can be treated as debt in most circumstances but can convert to equity just in case BB stock does increase in value.

    It is possible that if Blackberry opened one of Mike's cigar boxes and said "Oh, lookie here, $1B of bitcoin that Mike bought for the company back in the day", the value of the company might not go up $1B. It's not that simple.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-16-13 01:22 PM
  9. MTBMAN's Avatar
    Claffy. And. U
    12-19-13 11:38 AM
  10. MTBMAN's Avatar
    bhfgbrtjkgfbffnkjmkjhhgdswds
    12-19-13 11:39 AM
  11. MTBMAN's Avatar
    I know what you saying.Remember the older ones make more sense,cuz they can run manually
    12-19-13 11:52 AM
  12. europolska00's Avatar
    I'm not sure if you are working hard not to understand this, or what, but I'll try to dumb it down even further. This thread has some great explanations which you dismiss because they don't support your incorrect position.

    I'll try another.

    Let's say a firm named "Strawberry" is for sale.

    Strawberry has $2.9B of cash. Strawberry has no other assets. Strawberry has no liabilities. Strawberry's income is 1% interest they earn annually on the $2.9B. Strawberry's expenses are $2,000 of accounting fees each year.

    In the case of Strawberry, you are correct... it should be valued at around the value of the cash.

    I hope you aren't under the misconception that if someone purchased all of Blackberry's stock, they get the cash free of all the obligations and the expected losses ahead? Also keep in mind, the $1B loan has a built in stockholder dilution provision which means the lender can be treated as debt in most circumstances but can convert to equity just in case BB stock does increase in value.

    It is possible that if Blackberry opened one of Mike's cigar boxes and said "Oh, lookie here, $1B of bitcoin that Mike bought for the company back in the day", the value of the company might not go up $1B. It's not that simple.
    Respectfully disagree.

    Posted via CB10
    12-19-13 06:07 PM
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