1. grahamf's Avatar
    Honestly I still believe that BB10 is the superior OS (with 99% of Android apps working with patching and Play services installed) and that there will still be a market for it. Of course, Blackberry has to be able to distinguish between the two without restricting hardware from one or the other. BB10 would be awesome on Priv hardware, but it would be confusing if a customer that's not particularly tech-savvy goes into a store and sees two nearly-identical phones; but only one can run Candy Crush without a lot of fiddling.

    So what I'd like to discuss is:

    Can Blackberry offer an OS switch for a particular phone, where you can download and install the alternate OS and switch back and forth?

    What about minor cosmetic changes that don't cost much to make but make the phone look different?

    Should Blackberry have different brands for Android and BB10 phones to tell them apart (such as how the Prius morphed into the prius brand)?

    What if BB10 phones were mostly offered online-only, where anyone that knows what BB10 is and wants one can easily purchase one directly from Blackberry or Amazon?
    11-08-15 11:13 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Why spend millions on new chipset drivers and OS development when BB10 sales have bottomed out? There is no return on investment for BlackBerry.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2789
    11-08-15 11:16 PM
  3. BB Adict's Avatar
    Honestly I still believe that BB10 is the superior OS (with 99% of Android apps working with patching and Play services installed) and that there will still be a market for it. Of course, Blackberry has to be able to distinguish between the two without restricting hardware from one or the other. BB10 would be awesome on Priv hardware, but it would be confusing if a customer that's not particularly tech-savvy goes into a store and sees two nearly-identical phones; but only one can run Candy Crush without a lot of fiddling.

    So what I'd like to discuss is:

    Can Blackberry offer an OS switch for a particular phone, where you can download and install the alternate OS and switch back and forth?

    What about minor cosmetic changes that don't cost much to make but make the phone look different?

    Should Blackberry have different brands for Android and BB10 phones to tell them apart (such as how the Prius morphed into the prius brand)?

    What if BB10 phones were mostly offered online-only, where anyone that knows what BB10 is and wants one can easily purchase one directly from Blackberry or Amazon?
    Dude, let it go....

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-15 12:46 AM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Honestly I still believe that BB10 is the superior OS (with 99% of Android apps working with patching and Play services installed) and that there will still be a market for it.
    Yes, there is a market for people who will patch and sideload and track down specific versions of apps, etc. It's just that that market is far too small (and shrinking) to sustain BB10. BB10 costs BB significantly more money to develop and maintain than, say, Android, and that has resulted in BB10 losing BB about $100 every time they sell a phone. BB simply isn't in the position to keep losing money on every phone sold, especially a huge amount per phone at $100. That loss will only increase as the BB10 "market" continues to shrink. It's not sustainable, which is why it is no longer being sustained.
    JeepBB and mornhavon like this.
    11-09-15 01:47 AM
  5. early2bed's Avatar
    There is some simple math involved in mobile platform development. Software development costs are almost entirely fixed that is that you spend the same fixed amount whether you have 100 users or 1 million. That alone would make BB10 the most expensive mobile operating system to maintain on a per user basis.
    Bbnivende and domokeats09 like this.
    11-09-15 01:59 AM
  6. ssbtech's Avatar
    Yes, there is a market for people who will patch and sideload and track down specific versions of apps, etc. .
    Look at how many people will gladly cobble together various apps on Android only to end up with an inconsistent experience throughout their device.

    The majority of development of BB10 is already done. It would be silly to shelve it at this stage. The money they must have spent developing the Priv and making the BB apps (sort of) work on it would have been better spent on properly completing BB10 and advertising the damn thing.
    11-09-15 02:52 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Look at how many people will gladly cobble together various apps on Android only to end up with an inconsistent experience throughout their device.

    The majority of development of BB10 is already done. It would be silly to shelve it at this stage. The money they must have spent developing the Priv and making the BB apps (sort of) work on it would have been better spent on properly completing BB10 and advertising the damn thing.
    It is not just an OS with no apps. Outside of a small niche most consumers do not want a PKB either.

    Your best bet is to buy the BB10 device that you like. Load up Cobalt, Snap or not and you will be happy for about two more years. If you just use a phone like you would a 9900, then you might get four more years.

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-15 10:55 AM
  8. deadcowboy's Avatar
    It is not just an OS with no apps. Outside of a small niche most consumers do not want a PKB either.

    Your best bet is to buy the BB10 device that you like. Load up Cobalt, Snap or not and you will be happy for about two more years. If you just use a phone like you would a 9900, then you might get four more years.

    Posted via CB10
    Unfortunately, updated Android apps will stop supporting the older runtime on BB10 at some point. I'd like to use a Microsoft Band, for instance.

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-15 12:21 PM
  9. thurask's Avatar
    Find a dimension in which BB10 has traction in the market.

    You'll probably find it if everyone has a goatee.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    11-09-15 08:21 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Look at how many people will gladly cobble together various apps on Android only to end up with an inconsistent experience throughout their device.
    That's your perception, not theirs. From their point of view, when they want an app, they go to the app store, find an app they like, click "install", and a minute or so later, they start using the app. They don't have to go through any hassle, and there is no worries that the next update will break the app for them. That's the standard that people expect, and BB simply doesn't deliver that.

    Sure, as I said, there are users willing to tolerate the hassles needed to get apps on BB10 in order to experience what they believe to be a "smoother OS", but that userbase is small and shrinking, not growing. BB can't sustain that - remember: not only has BB10 not turned a cent of profit for BB, it has in fact cost BB a net total of about $8-9B. And every phone sold costs another $100 or so, which means BES and QNX profits have to prop up the BB10 business. BB just isn't willing to do that anymore, and while that's a shame for BB10, it's great for BB's financial health.
    Elephant_Canyon and JeepBB like this.
    11-09-15 09:15 PM
  11. Jerry A's Avatar
    Look at how many people will gladly cobble together various apps on Android only to end up with an inconsistent experience throughout their device.

    The majority of development of BB10 is already done. It would be silly to shelve it at this stage. The money they must have spent developing the Priv and making the BB apps (sort of) work on it would have been better spent on properly completing BB10 and advertising the damn thing.
    This is literally the definition of the "sunk cost fallacy".

    Throwing good money after bad makes no sense and is economically inefficient when you know the return is negligible.
    JeepBB and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    11-09-15 09:20 PM
  12. ssbtech's Avatar
    I think I'd have to go back to a clamshell flip feature phone if BB went all Android.
    peter0328 likes this.
    11-09-15 09:30 PM
  13. cathulu15's Avatar
    How does one calculate $100 per phone? Even Chen's hardware survival rate went from iirc 10M to 5M per year. And it is more confusing because the 5M is a mix of I believe BBOS, BB10, and Android...

     Passport SE 
    11-09-15 09:31 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    How does one calculate $100 per phone? Even Chen's hardware survival rate went from iirc 10M to 5M per year. And it is more confusing because the 5M is a mix of I believe BBOS, BB10, and Android...
    The number comes from a couple of financial analysts who have kept an eye on BB for years, and includes development costs, licensing, staffing, etc.

    If you open a restaurant, you don't make a profit just by charging a bit over the cost of the raw food - you also have a hundred other costs to cover - rent, utilities, equipment (ovens, refrigerators, freezers, pans, utensils, etc.), staffing, insurance, maintenance, etc. etc. All of those items are part of what it costs you to make and sell food, and so your menu pricing needs to reflect all costs, plus a profit margin.

    If you looked at the BB10 business by itself (as close as you can without actually having access to BB's accounting), you can approximate the costs of the BB10 business beyond the hardware costs of the phones themselves, and then divide those costs by the number of phones sold and the ASP. Doing that math shows BB at a net loss of around $100 per phone sold.
    11-09-15 10:03 PM

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