04-20-14 03:21 AM
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  1. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Surely you're exaggerating. You have to know that other Android OEMs are profitable besides Samsung. Samsung makes the most profit by far, but they don't make all of the profits.
    No I am not. Other than Samsung, they are losing money on the mobile device divisions. They are making money elsewhere in the company, but not on Android.
    04-15-14 11:41 AM
  2. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    BlackBerry would have to try really hard to spend billions on skinning it. And security doesn't need to be a concern either. Why does everyone think BlackBerry has to make everything they do secure? Is that like a mandate for them now? Are they legally required to only make so-called "secure" devices that the vast majority of humans don't want or need?
    They would not need to just skin it, they would have to redesign it from the bottom up to make it secure.

    Don't need or want security? Tell that to the people who have had their identities hacked, credit card information and other personal data. Why do you think that was in the news if people don't want or need security. Tell me why Target and Newman Marcus were in the news when their payment systems were hacked if people don't want or need secure payment systems? I guess you don't have a single credit card setup in your phone and never have purchased anything on your phone.

    I think you underestimate security and concerns around it. Good luck in your life and I hope you don't get hacked. Sounds like you are a perfect candidate.
    spikesolie likes this.
    04-15-14 11:48 AM
  3. Raddin's Avatar
    No I am not. Other than Samsung, they are losing money on the mobile device divisions. They are making money elsewhere in the company, but not on Android.
    Samsung doesn't have 100% of Android's profit. Do you really think they do? So you never heard of Huawei, ZTE or Fuhu? Each posted profits from Android last quarter.

    If you go buy the year, LG also had a profitable previous 4 quarters from Android.

    It simply is a fact of life that Samsung isn't the only company making profit off of Android. Just like it is also a fact that no company has ever made a cent of profit from BB10.
    04-15-14 11:56 AM
  4. Raddin's Avatar
    They would not need to just skin it, they would have to redesign it from the bottom up to make it secure.

    Don't need or want security? Tell that to the people who have had their identities hacked, credit card information and other personal data. Why do you think that was in the news if people don't want or need security. Tell me why Target and Newman Marcus were in the news when their payment systems were hacked if people don't want or need secure payment systems? I guess you don't have a single credit card setup in your phone and never have purchased anything on your phone.

    I think you underestimate security and concerns around it. Good luck in your life and I hope you don't get hacked. Sounds like you are a perfect candidate.
    So how has that security helped BlackBerry? Why don't more people buy BlackBerry smartphones if security is so important to the majority of smartphone customers?
    04-15-14 11:58 AM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Samsung doesn't have 100% of Android's profit. Do you really think they do? So you never heard of Huawei, ZTE or Fuhu? Each posted profits from Android last quarter. If you go buy the year, LG also had a profitable previous 4 quarters from Android.
    Please provide where Huawei, ZTE or Fuhu made money on their cell phone divisions. And it is convenient to want to look at LG over a year as their profits have been dropping Q over Q to the point where they are now losing money.
    04-15-14 12:10 PM
  6. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So how has that security helped BlackBerry? Why don't more people buy BlackBerry smartphones if security is so important to the majority of smartphone customers?
    Most people don't have a clue until they get hacked and then they wake up..
    04-15-14 12:11 PM
  7. Raddin's Avatar
    Please provide where Huawei, ZTE or Fuhu made money on their cell phone divisions. And it is convenient to want to look at LG over a year as their profits have been dropping Q over Q to the point where they are now losing money.
    Please provide evidence that Samsung makes 100% (as in every single penny) of the profits from Android devices sold.

    Do you even realize how outlandish that claim is? Should be pretty easy for you to find. I'm pretty sure Samsung would mention it if they did in fact make all the profits from Android.
    04-15-14 12:23 PM
  8. spikesolie's Avatar
    Please provide evidence that Samsung makes 100% (as in every single penny) of the profits from Android devices sold.

    Do you even realize how outlandish that claim is? Should be pretty easy for you to find. I'm pretty sure Samsung would mention it if they did in fact make all the profits from Android.
    You refused his request for evidence first....

    Posted via CB10
    04-15-14 12:47 PM
  9. Raddin's Avatar
    You refused his request for evidence first....

    Posted via CB10
    Because it pretty much goes without saying that he is wrong. You'd have to pretty ignorant to honestly believe that Samsung is the only company making profit from Android. And he explicitly stated that he wasn't exaggerating. So evidently, he honestly believes it. No amount of evidence in the world would change his mind, so why bother trying?
    Last edited by Raddin; 04-15-14 at 01:17 PM.
    04-15-14 01:07 PM
  10. anon1727506's Avatar
    Back to the topic.... BlackBerry has no revenue streams from BB10 other than if that device is connected to BES. So they can't afford to give the OS away. When you have the hugely popular Android and the minor player but growing Windows Phone both being given away for FREE.... what would posses an OEM to Pay for the floundering number six OS platform?
    04-16-14 08:18 AM
  11. spikesolie's Avatar
    Back to the topic.... BlackBerry has no revenue streams from BB10 other than if that device is connected to BES. So they can't afford to give the OS away. When you have the hugely popular Android and the minor player but growing Windows Phone both being given away for FREE.... what would posses an OEM to Pay for the floundering number six OS platform?
    Number 6? I'm confused. Android, ios, wp, what's the fourth and fifth?

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-14 09:23 AM
  12. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Number 6? I'm confused. Android, ios, wp, what's the fourth and fifth?
    Probably BB OS7, and Symbian. He was speaking of BB10 specifically, not BB in general.
    04-16-14 09:38 AM
  13. spikesolie's Avatar
    Probably BB OS7, and Symbian. He was speaking of BB10 specifically, not BB in general.
    Well I feel like those 2 are on the decline as well. Os7 for that matter even though it's selling can't keep up with the top3.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-14 09:43 AM
  14. Raddin's Avatar
    Probably BB OS7, and Symbian. He was speaking of BB10 specifically, not BB in general.
    Depending on who you ask, BlackBerry 10 might be even lower than 6th place at the moment.

    Many people now consider Cyanogenmod to be its own platform. They raised 23 million in funding and created a brand around it and are certainly treating it like it is a seperate platform. Now we are even seeing smart phones getting ready to launch with it preinstalled, including the OnePlus One.

    Cyanogenmod doesn't report user numbers frequently, but as of February 2014, it had been installed on over 11 million devices. Meaning that it is possible that there are more smartphones in the world that run CM than BB10.

    Again, depends on if you consider Cyanogenmod to be a unique platform or not.
    Last edited by Raddin; 04-16-14 at 10:18 AM.
    04-16-14 09:52 AM
  15. spikesolie's Avatar
    Depending on who you ask, BlackBerry 10 might be even lower than 6th place at the moment.

    Many people now consider Cyanogenmod to be its own platform. They raised 23 million in funding and created a brand around it and are certainly treating it like it is a seperate platform. Now we are even seeing smart phones getting ready to launch with it preinstalled, including the OnePlus One.

    Cyanogenmod doesn't report user numbers frequently, but as of February 2014, it had been installed on over 11 million devices. Meaning that it is possible that there are more smartphones in the world that run CM than BB10.

    Again, depends on if you consider Cyanogenmod to be a unique platform or not.
    Oh common that's gotta be bs.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-14 10:48 AM
  16. Raddin's Avatar
    Oh common that's gotta be bs.

    Posted via CB10
    Which part?

    It is your choice if you don't want to consider cyanogenmod to be a unique platform, but I highly doubt that they lied about their user numbers. They used that info to help them raise $23 million in funding. I think it would be illegal for them to lie about it. It is also true that they consider cyanogenmod a new platform and that cyanogenmod is being preinstalled on devices.

    So which part has "gotta be BS"?

    Not that it proves anything, but I know several people in real life who us Cyanogenmod, I'm the only person I've ever known to have owned a BB10 device. So you might be surprised to learn how popular CM is.
    richardat and JeepBB like this.
    04-16-14 10:57 AM
  17. Raddin's Avatar
    Here is the source I used for Cyanogenmod user numbers:

    CyanogenMod Statistics

    It lists installs by version and devices and is updated by the minute. They currently list 11,709,275 devices running a version of CM.
    04-16-14 11:38 AM
  18. Ment's Avatar
    I wouldn't count CM as a separate OS just like I don't count Android custom roms in that category. More like Android Plus if you want to separate it.
    04-16-14 04:43 PM
  19. Yatezy's Avatar
    CyanogenMod is just Android, I doubt it can be classed as a new platform. If OEMs overlays of Android are classed as a different platform that would mean Samsung and TouchWiz is over 100 million users, just based on the sales of S3, S4 and one of the Note series of phones.

    Also worth noting, a lot of custom ROMs are usually built off CM code so they may add them to the figures. But chances are we will never know.
    04-16-14 04:45 PM
  20. richardat's Avatar
    Why?

    There can't afford to build premium devices like Samsung and HTC and compete in "their" class of devices.

    And I don't see security being a huge concern among consumers.

    And it would still have the BlackBerry name and the YEARS of being known as being outdated to overcome.

    So.....WHY?


    BB10 is going to live and die with BlackBerry... It?s a very good OS on its own, but people don't care as much about the OS as they do the overall ecosystems. At this point BlackBerry has run out of money... sure they have enough to stay on life support for maybe another year. But they can't afford to really get behind the platform and market it the way any product would need.

    Posted via CB10
    The time for this was well over a year ago, before bb10 was launched. At the time - as I'm sure you remember - debates raged on CB, with the majority calling for the heads of those who wanted android. (BB10 will change the world and be #1 soon!!!)

    At the time, i believe I was on the fence about it (it is unclear at best, if BB could have had success as another android player), but right after bb10 was launched, I felt and wrote that android would have been better. I didn't know how crippled bb10 would be - had I known how little app support they actually had (despite their proclamations to the contrary), I would have said Android was the best gamble as bb10 was always doomed unfortunately.

    As you say though, it is way too late for this - especially to build in any substantial extra functionality they'd need to really differentiate themselves.
    JeepBB, Raddin and Unbiased Tech like this.
    04-16-14 05:20 PM
  21. richardat's Avatar
    To take a skinned Android and customize it to work with the BlackBerry network and to make it secure.... who know what it would have taken in time and resources. I will agree less than starting from scratch, but maybe more importantly it might have gained them a year. A launch back in 2012 might have been easier...

    But simply put with only the security aspect to differentiate BlackBerry Android from Samsung or HTC Android.... for consumers it would have still been a flop. The hardware would still have be classic BlackBerry one generation behind he premium device... yet they would have asked for a premium price.

    No a new different platform was needed. But it was need much sooner than the were able to deliver. It needed to be "better" than it was at launch. It needed to be MARKETED like there was no tomorrow. It needed to have the APPS. It needed to be a Z30 type device at launch, with a Z3 type introductory price....
    lol. I just posted a reply to an earlier post where I referenced the need to differentiate and the resources required. I agree with what you are saying on the whole, but the truth is, even a non-differentiated (or superficially differentiated) android BB had a better chance of succeeding than bb10 did. I suspect they knew this, but felt their best chance at selling the company was with bringing bb10 out, and hoping they could sell before the true numbers came in.
    04-16-14 05:24 PM
  22. richardat's Avatar
    Have you not been paying attention?

    Starting with the purchase of QNX, which by itself was $200 million, along with all of the PlayBook and Z10 write offs and you're already at over two billion dollars. That isn't even touching on the development cost, the developer promotions to get apps and other aqusitions and expenses they made for the new platform.

    It is funny that you mention their value today. Do you remember their value before they started using all of their resources on the new OS? They had around 3 billion in cash on hand and zero debt. The day BlackBerry bought QNX in April of 2010, their share price was around $73. Today it is $7.22. That warchest of cash is gone and they are in debt. That is pretty insane don't ya think?

    Where do you think that money burn went to if not to the new platform?

    I'm sure it seems like the numbers are just made up. They are so large that it is hard to belive. And I wish they were pretend, but they're not.
    It is true. If they simply cancelled all bb10 development way back, they would be way ahead, since it did nothing but lose them money. The stock might not have "surged" on the bb10 bubble though ;-)
    Raddin and JeepBB like this.
    04-16-14 05:37 PM
  23. Unbiased Tech's Avatar
    They would not need to just skin it, they would have to redesign it from the bottom up to make it secure.

    Don't need or want security? Tell that to the people who have had their identities hacked, credit card information and other personal data. Why do you think that was in the news if people don't want or need security. Tell me why Target and Newman Marcus were in the news when their payment systems were hacked if people don't want or need secure payment systems? I guess you don't have a single credit card setup in your phone and never have purchased anything on your phone.

    I think you underestimate security and concerns around it. Good luck in your life and I hope you don't get hacked. Sounds like you are a perfect candidate.
    So you think a BlackBerry can't be hacked? Please don't tell me you think that because with thinking like that it seems that YOU are a perfect candidate. Any piece of technology can be modified and or hacked for either beneficial or malicious purposes. Those companies you mentioned had servers upon servers and layers of security storing probably thousands of terabytes of data and you think that a phone running a mobile operating system is immune to that. Please
    richardat likes this.
    04-17-14 02:20 PM
  24. morpho4444's Avatar
    stop this thread already.. every single discussion on this thread is futile.. stop it already
    04-17-14 11:11 PM
  25. harryhayde's Avatar
    No

    Posted via CB10
    04-18-14 12:58 AM
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