12-20-11 08:17 AM
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  1. donpeppino9's Avatar
    i think there's a lot of crackberry folks that are overly optimistic about RIM's current position.

    Reality is they are a tech company that is on a downward slide. Sure, at the present, they are financially profitable, but what has people freaking out is that on the current trajectory the company will not be profitable. When people say that this company will be gone in a year from now, IMO, that is a little too pestimistic. At the current rate the company will continue to lose market share and will force itself to cut costs. That snowball effect will eventually yield a company soo small that it becomes utterly irrelevant. OR RIM will force the issue with its current management, splashing millions and as market share diminishes they will go bankrupt within the next 10 years.

    Reason why its stock price is selling below its intrisic value is that investors are not confident in its management. Sure they have the assets that are of value, but in the wrong hands its worthless. There are many companies whose stock price is sold way above intrinsic value and it is due to the belief that the company is on a growth trajectory and that its value is greater than the sum of its parts... not rimm.

    IMO what RIMM needs to realise is that the true players in the smartphone industry of tomorrow will be the ones who have a true eco system. Apple isn't what it is today simply cause of iOS and the iphone, it is there because of the app store and itunes. Google became a huge search engine/ecosystem before android came out. and Microsoft was, well, microsoft and its enormity before its WM and WP lines came out.

    RIMM had their chance at building an eco system. if the ceos were smart, they would have done whatever was necessary to nullify the advantages of the iphone and androdi when they came out... which is make the devices more app friendly. lets face it, we all love out blackberry phones but hate its ability to use apps. I would of been happy if RIM just changed its current BBOS to have the ability to save and play apps off ROM memory rather than RAM. thats what is holding back app developement. knowing that bb phones only have a couple hundred megabytes of space to save its apps, developers know that they gotta make their apps small and that means lower quality... why bother? and dont give me well iphones are good at playing games... ******* bull ****!@!!! my iphone's productivity apps kill blackberry's anyday. from google maps, pandora, youtube, to fidelity, to documents to go, iphone has way better apps. and ya, when you're at you're lunch break at work, its nice to be able to look at something entertaining... iphone wins again.

    Blackberry doesn't have an ecosystem. theres' no way to compete. I, am not convinced that the android app players is the answer. I am not a tech genious, but it just seems that the only way to fully integrate android apps is to run android OS. the app players seems like a half baked way to run apps. I'm willing to guess that only a small fraction of apps that is developed for android will come with QNX compatability. most developers won't give two shyts about qnx.

    IMO, i think RIMM will eventually be bought out by Apple, and use its patents and brand name to launch a second line of smartphones with enterprise users in mind. Primarly those who need a physical keyboard and a smart/efficient notification system. Maybe google and microsoft, but being that they have their own hardware partners now I dont see that happeneing.

    OR, management will HAVE to be kicked out and the new CEO will lead blackberry into a different direction..

    OR.. it will go bankrupt in about 6 years, and its assets will be auctioned off (patents, etc.)

    the only reason why RIM is staying alive today is cause of the business enterprise and cheap models such as the curve that sells well to consumers with lower discretionary incomes (pre paid in the us and europe, asian markets). Eventually iphone/android/WP will takeover those segments completely, it has already started. i'd give it a couple years and RIMM won't have any advantages at all under current management.

    Who knows, maybe QNX will be a success. But you can't blame people for doubting it. in the end all we have is a track record to go off of. RIM's managment has a horrible record for coming out with products that are not competitive and late. what makes this time any different? and don't give me "they learned their lesson, and they have large investment interests in the company bs". These are grown *** men in a professional position. the fact that they let this happen is more than enough reason to oust them. they dont have the competency to compete in tday's market, which is far more competitive than when blackberry first came out. Managment's role is to maximize shareholder's wealth and they are doing a horrific job of that.

    If I were the CEO of RIM, here's what I would do with blackberry:

    1. Consolidate product lines. Make the bold and torch only. no need to confuse customers with all of these comfusing numbers. make one version for cdma/gsm users. concentrate on making just 2 devices and make them great. put all of your company assets in making somethign phenomenal. apple has done this quite well.
    2. enhance desktop manager to mirror itunes as much as possible (access to music and apps, while customizing homescreen icons, etc.
    3. enough of telling people what you're gonna do, before its ready, only to fail. tell people you got something only when its out of the oven. RIMM needs realiable data reports.. financial especially.
    4. get off BIS/BES. or at least have the devices compatible with that and the carrier's internet service, so that if the BB networks go down, you're not SOL.
    5. stop selling crap. today's tech buyers are more savy and educated. flagship device without an autofocus camera, and battery life no better than you're competitors?! (once an advantage for BB, now gone. and dont give me that crap that its still better. my iphone4 lasts way longer than the 9650 did).
    6. Screw BBOS and QNX. jump on board with android or WP. but overlay it with a custom format that makes it more secure, non touchscreen dependent, and easy to use with one hand (standard blackberry buttons). i think android and microsoft would be on board with that. if you can't beat them, join them.
    7. don't stray away from what made you great. BB should always have the advantage because of its form factor. don't take away the buttons, and the ability to navigate the OS without touching the screen. the new BBX devices makes me sick! why would anyone buy that? if they wanted a mature and efficent touch screen device their money would be better served buying and iphone/droid. what makes the qnx better? i know the tech gurus will say that the OS is superior, but nobody cares. you're
    mainstream consumers will just want something that is "cool" and has the apps...

    THATS IT!
    Shlooky and JBenn911 like this.
    12-17-11 11:44 AM
  2. NJPhilliesPhan's Avatar
    Blackberry doesn't have an ecosystem. theres' no way to compete. I, am not convinced that the android app players is the answer. I am not a tech genious, but it just seems that the only way to fully integrate android apps is to run android OS. the app players seems like a half baked way to run apps. I'm willing to guess that only a small fraction of apps that is developed for android will come with QNX compatability. most developers won't give two shyts about qnx.
    I agree, the Android player is a lame solution to BB's horrible app situation. They need to just run Android on a solid phone and give consumers what they want before they start looking elsewhere permanently. QNX was a nice try but it is time to move on, they still can't even get the required updates for the PB.
    12-17-11 12:04 PM
  3. West Coast Flavor's Avatar
    Unless they can somehow change the culture.. They. Are. Done.
    Last edited by West Coast Flavor; 12-17-11 at 12:59 PM.
    12-17-11 12:56 PM
  4. 1812dave's Avatar
    Lack.of.apps.will.kill.RIM.
    GingerSnapsBack likes this.
    12-17-11 01:13 PM
  5. vtpmt81's Avatar
    I think QNX can save RIM but I agree with the op on several points.

    RIM needs to improve Blackberry app world which they are trying to do by releasing the sdk for their playbook os.

    RIM needs to improve their native apps. Blackberry maps is trash compared to google maps. The Blackberry browser has been better since Os6 but still isn't as good as safari or the android stock browser. Blackberry music is a good start, but Blackberry needs to partner with Amazon/Hulu/Netflix etc. and improve their multimedia content.

    RIM needs to stop playing catch up and release phones with top of the line specs. The London and Milan should be quad core devices with HD screens. The QNX OS plays well with cars so vehicle intergration is a huge plus. Rim needs to add video chatting via BBM-this would be a great feature. RIM needs to improve Balance so that if BIS is down, you still get emails and internet for all non BES email accounts.

    Last but not least, RIM needs to release phones that have excellent build quality. That means no more phones with plastic screens IMHO.

    I just want to see RIM get it right and release a cutting edge device like the Bold 9000. RIM has to stop leaving out features (no autofocus on 9900/no NFC on 9850/no HD recording on new curves even though they have 5 Mp cameras) on some models that are included in others.
    12-17-11 07:16 PM
  6. 1812dave's Avatar
    I think QNX can save RIM but I agree with the op on several points.

    RIM needs to improve Blackberry app world which they are trying to do by releasing the sdk for their playbook os.

    RIM needs to improve their native apps. Blackberry maps is trash compared to google maps. The Blackberry browser has been better since Os6 but still isn't as good as safari or the android stock browser. Blackberry music is a good start, but Blackberry needs to partner with Amazon/Hulu/Netflix etc. and improve their multimedia content.

    RIM needs to stop playing catch up and release phones with top of the line specs. The London and Milan should be quad core devices with HD screens. The QNX OS plays well with cars so vehicle intergration is a huge plus. Rim needs to add video chatting via BBM-this would be a great feature. RIM needs to improve Balance so that if BIS is down, you still get emails and internet for all non BES email accounts.

    Last but not least, RIM needs to release phones that have excellent build quality. That means no more phones with plastic screens IMHO.

    I just want to see RIM get it right and release a cutting edge device like the Bold 9000. RIM has to stop leaving out features (no autofocus on 9900/no NFC on 9850/no HD recording on new curves even though they have 5 Mp cameras) on some models that are included in others.
    RIM needs:

    1. 4G NOW. as in TODAY! They are not Apple, who inexplicably sells phones today that aren't 4G and GETS AWAY WITH IT.

    2. They need more applications and that is never going to be on the level of iOS or Android apps, so they are SCREWED, no matter what else they get right.

    3. They MUST dump their CEO's. Those clowns' days have long gone. Time for new blood.

    4. Advertising, which won't sell bad phones, but combined with some decent hardware, might help a little. (it's a stretch, I know, given how Android/iOS keeps capturing everyones attention and money).

    5. The need to quit with the slow-*** method of transmitting data to/from a handset. Going through RIM's servers when one wants to browse the internet, is INSANE. It's what slows down speeds to a crawl. Even on a fast wifi connection, browsing on a BB phone is downright LAME.


    Finally. Even IF RIM came out before Christmas with a 4G phone with great features, the perception of BB phones has eroded to the point where it's an embarrassment to contemplate getting one, or being seen with one. RIM's heyday is OVER. Sales will continue to grow for Android/iOS at RIM's expense. RIM under-performs at every opportunity and then they make lame excuses for such things as "the chips aren't ready". GIMMIE A FREAKIN' BREAK with the "chips aren't ready" BS!
    gg22 likes this.
    12-17-11 07:30 PM
  7. herculesinwyoming's Avatar
    i find it sad to see rim fall and i hope they make a mega comeback. I have done my share i have a play book. 2 9800 torches and one curve on my family plan. Sorry to say my personal phone i just upgraded to a anroid phone. The way i see it i better start checking out other platforms because i am starting to loose faith in rim. I am still a fan but we have to face facts.
    1812dave likes this.
    12-17-11 07:32 PM
  8. kbz1960's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.

    How successful are all of your businesses? How is your consulting firm doing? How many clients do you have?
    JAGWIRE and menaknow like this.
    12-17-11 07:36 PM
  9. herculesinwyoming's Avatar
    sad but true the writing is on the wall. RIM is in deep doo doo. Just watch the playbook os promised for feb sill be delayed too
    12-17-11 07:40 PM
  10. kbz1960's Avatar
    sad but true the writing is on the wall. RIM is in deep doo doo. Just watch the playbook os promised for feb sill be delayed too
    I'm not that worried about the playbook OS coming in Feb. If it does great, if it doesn't it'll still work as it does now and how I've been using it for months. Actually it works better with every update.
    12-17-11 07:45 PM
  11. NJPhilliesPhan's Avatar
    I'm not that worried about the playbook OS coming in Feb. If it does great, if it doesn't it'll still work as it does now and how I've been using it for months. Actually it works better with every update.
    Actually I think its a big deal to many of us Playbook owners, these missing features are essential.
    12-17-11 08:33 PM
  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.

    How successful are all of your businesses? How is your consulting firm doing? How many clients do you have?
    I do quite well thanks for asking
    12-17-11 08:37 PM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    Actually I think its a big deal to many of us Playbook owners, these missing features are essential.
    Sure no one can live or survive without them. Yes they are needed. Who is to say they will not come with smaller updates? The new beta has A2DP working now and haven't kept up with what else.
    12-17-11 08:49 PM
  14. vtpmt81's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.

    How successful are all of your businesses? How is your consulting firm doing? How many clients
    do you have?
    I do okay for myself as an architect.

    I don't own a tech company but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

    Since you want to post snide comments, why do you think RIM stock value is falling?

    Do you think a company that has orphaned one its best selling devices (the Storms) is smart? Don't you think that a company that announced that qnx was its future in 2010 that isn't going to have a qnx device until late 2012 is running a bit behind? RIM hasn't released a device with top of the line specs since the Bold 9000 - every phone that RIM has released since then has been a year behind compared to its competition, and RIM has been losing marketshare to its competition for the past 2 years.
    1812dave, anon1727506 and JBenn911 like this.
    12-17-11 08:55 PM
  15. kbz1960's Avatar
    I do okay for myself as an architect.

    I don't own a tech company but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

    Since you want to post snide comments, why do you think RIM stock value is falling?

    Do you think a company that has orphaned one its best selling devices (the Storms) is smart? Don't you think that a company that announced that qnx was its future in 2010 that isn't going to have a qnx device until late 2012 is running a bit behind? RIM hasn't released a device with top of the line specs since the Bold 9000 - every phone that RIM has released since then has been a year behind compared to its competition, and RIM has been losing marketshare to its competition for the past 2 years.
    Wasn't meant as a snide comment but everyone seems to be an expert on it. I know why their stock is falling. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

    Not sure they orphaned the storm, wasn't there an update for it not long ago? I dunno.

    I did LOL at the holiday inn
    Callie2525 likes this.
    12-17-11 09:13 PM
  16. jd914's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.

    How successful are all of your businesses? How is your consulting firm doing? How many clients do you have?
    most people have no experience in all the above but the average consumer knows a sub par device when they see one. If you have any doubts, look at what RIMM's stock is valued at.
    12-17-11 11:06 PM
  17. NJPhilliesPhan's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.
    It doesnt take an expert to see that the current ancient looking "flagship" Bold can not compete with the modern and flashy Android and Apple offerings.
    12-17-11 11:12 PM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    most people have no experience in all the above but the average consumer knows a sub par device when they see one. If you have any doubts, look at what RIMM's stock is valued at.
    yes because the average consumer really defines the stock market...
    The average consumer has little to do with the stock market, Investment firms, define stock price, a company that is doing extremely well can have crap stock value, and the reverse can also be true it's all speculation and gambling.


    RIM makes SubPar Media Consumption devices, and that is what the average consumer wants, Media Consumption devices.
    12-18-11 07:57 AM
  19. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    wow everyone is picking on deRusett for a perfectly fine observation. Everything we say here is just an opinion. there are very few professionals on this site and he was just pointing that out. there are a lot of people on here that kinda get full of them selves with the whole 'i know what RIM needs' rhetoric and he was just pointing that out. so lets just stop with 'RIM advisement' threads they are getting old...
    12-18-11 08:31 AM
  20. Fat Bastage's Avatar
    In my opinion this quote from the earnings release explains exactly why RIM's future is in serious jeopardy.

    "It may take some time to realize the benefits of these efforts and the platform transition that we are undertaking, but we continue to believe that RIM has the right set of strengths and capabilities to maintain a leading role in the mobile communications industry.”

    If you notice what their goal is, he says to maintain a leading role in the "mobile communications industry". This crystalizes why RIM doesn't get it. Why they are skating to where the puck a year ago and not to where the puck is going.

    The mobile communications industry is dead and has been replaced by a mobile computing industry. The smartphone is simply a transition device into full handheld computers. In the future all will have handheld computers and the communications portion of the device will simply be an "application". RIM still believes the communication portions of the smartphone is the prime feature that drives sales when it doesn't.

    To me, this explains how the CEO's can so horribly miss their guidance over and over. They still think this race is about the phone and messaging so they get blindsided when the consuming public and enterprise don't buy their communication devices. They are looking for the best handheld computers and will continue to do so.
    12-18-11 08:43 AM
  21. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    In my opinion this quote from the earnings release explains exactly why RIM's future is in serious jeopardy.

    "It may take some time to realize the benefits of these efforts and the platform transition that we are undertaking, but we continue to believe that RIM has the right set of strengths and capabilities to maintain a leading role in the mobile communications industry.

    If you notice what their goal is, he says to maintain a leading role in the "mobile communications industry". This crystalizes why RIM doesn't get it. Why they are skating to where the puck a year ago and not to where the puck is going.

    The mobile communications industry is dead and has been replaced by a mobile computing industry. The smartphone is simply a transition device into full handheld computers. In the future all will have handheld computers and the communications portion of the device will simply be an "application". RIM still believes the communication portions of the smartphone is the prime feature that drives sales when it doesn't.

    To me, this explains how the CEO's can so horribly miss their guidance over and over. They still think this race is about the phone and messaging so they get blindsided when the consuming public and enterprise don't buy their communication devices. They are looking for the best handheld computers and will continue to do so.

    I agree half with you,

    Communication is still the PRIMARY concern for Enterprise customers and business customers, and that market remains large, not nearly as large as the portable entertainment market that is the consumer focus.
    Those 2 industries can co exist, as long as RIM does make the devices available to be consumption devices as well, they can be relevant
    12-18-11 09:01 AM
  22. HybridGT's Avatar
    RIM won't fail us.
    Not that they haven't already.
    12-18-11 09:23 AM
  23. donpeppino9's Avatar
    Everybody is an expert these days.

    How successful are all of your businesses? How is your consulting firm doing? How many clients do you have?
    I see your point and I agree that its easier to play the role of CEO as an outsider looking in. In reality there are numerous constraints that we are probably not fully aware of that RIM's managment needs to contend with to make the company successful again.

    What RIM needs to do to become successful is my opinion. a REAL turnaround plan for the company would involve a lot more details coming from someone who knows the company from the inside. I do not own my own company. I am an airline pilot and i've earned my master's in business admin. My education speaks for itself and I think it would be a fair assessment to say that my judgement is somewhat qualified. It doesn't take successful entrepreneurs to see that RIM is struggling at the moment. As i've said in the OP, the company does have a chance of turning around under current managment, who knows?! The purpose of this thread is to share ideas and throughts in regards to the main topic.

    What I would like to see is someone who does have the qualifications to take over the leadership position of RIM, a visionary who knows how to steer the company in the right direction, and make RIM successful.
    12-18-11 11:22 AM
  24. JPMorgan_'s Avatar
    We need more apps, on both PlayBook and phones.
    12-19-11 12:44 AM
  25. recompile's Avatar
    The Blackberry browser has been better since Os6 but still isn't as good as safari or the android stock browser.
    Actually, RIM has had one of the best web-browsers in the mobile space for more than a year now.

    In case you didn't know, until iOS5 (not very long ago) RIM's browser on phones and tablets beat mobile safari by a VERY wide margin on HTML5 support. It still out-does the stock Android browser.

    Why do these ridiculous myths still persist?
    12-19-11 01:37 AM
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