12-05-13 08:17 PM
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  1. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    All Heins had to say was "With BB10, BlackBerry people will have a choice of the best physical keyboard on the market, which you would expect from BlackBerry, OR what we believe is the best virtual keyboard on the market. Let me show you how that works..."

    And later..."so that's our new virtual keyboard. BlackBerry people will have the best physical keyboards and the best virtual keyboard to get things done"

    Same issue happened on the investor call last quarter. RIM's writers are not being as clear as they need to be in big events like this.
    So much THIS. For a company that makes communications devices, RIM has been awful at actually communicating effectively. They've been all over the place with their focus in the past few years and it shows...so much so that now when there's a new guy in charge and things are supposedly getting better, nobody believes a word they say and it all gets over-analyzed to death.

    Simple remedy: stop talking so much, stay on task, deliver when you say you are going to, and tighten up your marketing. It's a question of consumer faith at this point, and the press are always going to be mercenary, so stop catering to them and their antics. Make a good product, keep on message, and eventually the side issues will resolve themselves.
    05-04-12 03:30 PM
  2. wout000's Avatar
    I do agree that the fluttering price is because investors aren't seeing any actually products being pumped out but with the coming press about BB10, partnerships and various other aspects i'm sure they're holding on to their shares, giving it a chance to go up in price at the end of the year.
    It's hard as a big time investor to swallow a big loss, and with the company turnover i'm sure most of them are just waiting to see what Thorsten does with it.

    I'm loving these discount prices on the stock. I'm thinking personally that $11.91 is the bottom figure for RIM (RIMM). I have faith in RIM so i'm buying more.
    05-04-12 03:47 PM
  3. terminatorx's Avatar
    Now, your latent argument -- that RIM has enough apps -- is not necessarily wrong; a lot of folks just figure they could use a few more key ones.
    I can agree with that, certainly some more key ones will be a bonus. But in the end, BB already has a great number of quality apps. I don't think someone who likes the BB platform is going to switch to iPhone because they have one or two key apps that aren't made for the BB. In that case nobody would even use a BlackBerry and every person on the planet would naturally want to buy an iPhone, since they have the most "key" apps. People choose smartphones for other reasons too.

    A few reasons I have heard users come back to BB after they ditched it:

    - physical keyboard
    - easier interface and flipping between apps
    - multitasking
    - a few real buttons, like answer/end call
    - the trackpoint
    - professional business device
    - GREAT phone, good voice/antenna quality
    - BBM

    And that doesn't even touch on the email yet! There's a ton of reasons.
    05-04-12 05:20 PM
  4. Mystic205's Avatar
    no, that is not what it ONLY means..Perhaps investors and some analysts only see the ability to gain significant and rapid market penetration as a result of device proliferation..which cannot occur with RIM going solo.


    If everyone wants BB10 to be licensed that only means that RIM is developing a great OS that can be the new standard out there.
    05-04-12 06:26 PM
  5. vrs626's Avatar
    I don't think someone who likes the BB platform is going to switch to iPhone because they have one or two key apps that aren't made for the BB.
    I disagree strongly with this statement. I know plenty of people that have left Blackberry and switched to Android or iOS precisely because of the lack of key apps for Blackberry. It's also one of the main reasons why I'm considering ditching Blackberry.
    05-04-12 06:30 PM
  6. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I disagree strongly with this statement. I know plenty of people that have left Blackberry and switched to Android or iOS precisely because of the lack of key apps for Blackberry. It's also one of the main reasons why I'm considering ditching Blackberry.

    I know a few people who left BB for another platform also for the same reason. Certain key apps just werent available. And some of them even waited months to see if they ever would be.
    05-04-12 06:33 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    This could be very much true, but I would almost bet the opposite. 3-4 million first quarter, then a decline in following quarter(s) wouldnt be a surprise. Out of your 70 million BB users you cant get 3-4 million to buy them? Tho the Keyboard is a hook for sure and it would be foolish not to have it set to launch soon after.
    Well, we'll bump this after 3Q and see where we are. If RIM sells 3 million BB10's in its first quarter, Microsoft will be in very big trouble. A lot of developer attention will swing to BB10.

    I hope RIM will report BB7 and BB10 sales separately, so that people aren't making up BB10 numbers left and right. Developers would respect and appreciate honesty and clarity there from the beginning.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 05-04-12 at 06:42 PM.
    SlcCorrado and Thunderbuck like this.
    05-04-12 06:40 PM
  8. Mystic205's Avatar
    I suspect there will be significant pressure upon them to do so by the financial community.. and we will have very strong leading indicators also,.. good reviews, ad campaigns and the screaming hordes throwing bricks through ATT windows to beat the queue..usual stuff

    Well, we'll bump this after 3Q and see where we are. If RIM sells 3 million BB10's in its first quarter, Microsoft will be in very big trouble. A lot of developer attention will swing to BB10.

    I hope RIM will report BB7 and BB10 sales separately, so that people aren't making up BB10 numbers left and right. Developers would respect and appreciate honesty and clarity there from the beginning.
    05-04-12 07:12 PM
  9. stackberry369's Avatar
    RIM is a broken stock.
    05-04-12 08:03 PM
  10. playbookster's Avatar
    It finished up today on the TSE
    05-04-12 08:41 PM
  11. dtango's Avatar
    What?! That clever camera feature and new touchscreen keyboard didnt fire the stock straight up?!
    05-04-12 08:59 PM
  12. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    Sorry... Didn't read too many posts but I just want to say that I am purchasing more RIMM tomorrow. It's $12. Outlook has neg at $7 and pos at $40. Even if it makes it to $20, which I truly believe it will, it will have been a great investment
    playbookster likes this.
    05-04-12 08:59 PM
  13. terminatorx's Avatar
    I disagree strongly with this statement. I know plenty of people that have left Blackberry and switched to Android or iOS precisely because of the lack of key apps for Blackberry. It's also one of the main reasons why I'm considering ditching Blackberry.
    Disagree as strongly as you want Just because you know people who left BB for iOS and Android because of lack of key apps, doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. I certainly don't!
    05-04-12 09:55 PM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Sorry... Didn't read too many posts but I just want to say that I am purchasing more RIMM tomorrow. It's $12. Outlook has neg at $7 and pos at $40. Even if it makes it to $20, which I truly believe it will, it will have been a great investment
    $40 potential on the upside? Thats a pleasant, if far-fetched, notion

    I do agree that it's a solid $20 stock, though... Maybe in a year.
    05-04-12 10:22 PM
  15. chaddeus's Avatar
    Its tricky. People expectations are much much higher when RIM constantly saying that the new BB10 will be very good. If they dont say much about it, consumer's expectation would not be high and when we see the demo, we will not be disappointed.

    If Apple would to release the same function, I am sure the world would WOW... but not for RIM

    - Charles
    05-04-12 11:59 PM
  16. palomartian's Avatar
    I'm a buyer at $7 unless they p*ss away more book value flogging dead horses. They do some things well and make money at it. High end handsets chiefly NOT among them.
    05-05-12 01:39 AM
  17. neller2000's Avatar
    I didn't read the thread. No need to. Want to know a few reasons for the stock being low and dropping and almost guaranteed to keep dropping?

    First off, the "unveiling" of BB10. There was nothing new there. Everyone already knows how underwhelming it is on the Playbook. Not to the diehards here but to almost everyone else. And please, don't mention BBM, most people I know with smartphones have no clue what it even is.

    Second, the lack of news about innovative initiatives. What was new and exciting about the developers conference? If you said nothing then you're correct. Nothing was revealed that the competing smartphones couldn't do almost 2 years ago. Camera rewind? Cool, had an app that could do the same ages ago, deleted it also ages ago. Pointless gimmick and not new.

    Third, where is the new hardware? Where is the price of the new handsets? Where is the release dates? I know it wasn't expected but with the lack of everything else it would have been nice. One could of course say it followed the underwhelming atmosphere in general however.

    Fourth, lack of charisma and flair from the management team. Hey look it's Thorsten Heins......./YAAAWN! Where is the fire and passion people know and love from people like Steve Jobs? Heck, even Steve Balmer and his insane antics on stages and his moronic statements from time to time was more exciting than this.

    Fifth, where's the apps? Where's all the big ones? Not even remotely close to enough app developer news either.

    I could write a novel about everything going wrong with RIM but most people here will just put blinders on and ignore anything rational. Will you blame the media this time as well? Wall Street? Apple brainwashing drones infiltrating the conference?

    What exactly makes anyone believe the hordes of people with iPhones, Android phones and even WP7 devices will even spare BB10 a glance when it arrives about 3 years late? Will it be the fact that at launch probably at best only 20% of the apps they currently use will be available on BB10? Will it be the fact it will only just barely have caught up? Or will it be the underwhelming QNX OS which is BB10 that will ultimately keep them away?

    I don't mean to insult anyone but guys, these are just a FEW of the reasons. There's many more where they came from.
    bobauckland likes this.
    05-05-12 06:10 AM
  18. bobauckland's Avatar
    I will be getting the BB10 launch phone and the keyboarded version when it drops but this is precisely the reason the stock is down and new users will almost certainly not move over on the information released so far.
    RIM are depending on diehards to move over while taking away the main raison d'tre, the keyboard, and not providing the apps the average consumer needs.
    Sounds like they don't have a focused target at all and are depending on sentiment. Not a great business idea.

    I didn't read the thread. No need to. Want to know a few reasons for the stock being low and dropping and almost guaranteed to keep dropping?

    First off, the "unveiling" of BB10. There was nothing new there. Everyone already knows how underwhelming it is on the Playbook. Not to the diehards here but to almost everyone else. And please, don't mention BBM, most people I know with smartphones have no clue what it even is.

    Second, the lack of news about innovative initiatives. What was new and exciting about the developers conference? If you said nothing then you're correct. Nothing was revealed that the competing smartphones couldn't do almost 2 years ago. Camera rewind? Cool, had an app that could do the same ages ago, deleted it also ages ago. Pointless gimmick and not new.

    Third, where is the new hardware? Where is the price of the new handsets? Where is the release dates? I know it wasn't expected but with the lack of everything else it would have been nice. One could of course say it followed the underwhelming atmosphere in general however.

    Fourth, lack of charisma and flair from the management team. Hey look it's Thorsten Heins......./YAAAWN! Where is the fire and passion people know and love from people like Steve Jobs? Heck, even Steve Balmer and his insane antics on stages and his moronic statements from time to time was more exciting than this.

    Fifth, where's the apps? Where's all the big ones? Not even remotely close to enough app developer news either.

    I could write a novel about everything going wrong with RIM but most people here will just put blinders on and ignore anything rational. Will you blame the media this time as well? Wall Street? Apple brainwashing drones infiltrating the conference?

    What exactly makes anyone believe the hordes of people with iPhones, Android phones and even WP7 devices will even spare BB10 a glance when it arrives about 3 years late? Will it be the fact that at launch probably at best only 20% of the apps they currently use will be available on BB10? Will it be the fact it will only just barely have caught up? Or will it be the underwhelming QNX OS which is BB10 that will ultimately keep them away?

    I don't mean to insult anyone but guys, these are just a FEW of the reasons. There's many more where they came from.
    05-05-12 06:59 AM
  19. Blackberry_Boy's Avatar
    RIMMberr...... (again) in [Market-Ticker]




    RIMMberr...... (again)

    It continues, down another 2% today as Heins has not been fired nor have his eyes been exposed to daylight.

    I say again: Open the Playbook, and by extension BB10, to GAPPS here and now.

    All the claims of RIMM having a "vibrant" developer community and ecosystems are immaterial. Seriously. They're lies too, but even if they weren't lies (and they are) it doesn't matter.

    Let me explain a few things. RIMM recently "fixed" the lack of an integrated email application for the Playbook. That's good. The bad is that it can't handle PGP -- that is, encrypted email -- at all. It does do a credible job of working with SSL-secured IMAP accounts, which is good. That it can't handle encrypted transport, however, makes it worthless to me and millions of others.

    I, and many others, need encrypted transport and storage or I may as well have nothing when it comes to business email.

    There would be a solution to this in that on the Android market there is an application called "K9 Mail" which works perfectly well and is alsoavailable on the Playbook store. It also handles IMAP properly. All good, right?

    Nope; this "solution" is worthless.

    Why? Because PGP support requires AGP as an add-on which is not in the Playbook store.

    Therefore unless you have a rooted device if you need fully-encrypted email support on your Playbook you're stuffed and done.

    You want to claim this is irrelevant? Go right ahead. I need this. I can't have it on the Playbook. That makes the Playbook a TOY instead of a TOOL for my use and makes all the claims that the Playbook is a "solid device" in the world where SECURE email matters to the user -- which is a of a lot of corporate users -- an abject LIE.

    That's the beginning and end of it folks, and this is not the only placethis problemhappens on the Playbook. It happens in a lot of other areas too, and all of them have exactly the same outcome -- the device is worthless to people with that particular set of requirements.

    This is why iPADs and Android tablets are winning and the Playbook is not only losing it is utterly irrelevant.

    Other examples? I have apps for Android (and IOS) for my various brokerage accounts. None are available on the Playbook and inquiries to the companies involved have resulted in a "no plans" response.

    BB10 is going to have the same problem on the new phones. And despite what people want to claim BB10's audience is not just the government and large-enterprise customer -- ifthat's all RIMM cares about the company is finished.

    The customer base and intended audience has toinclude the small and medium enterprise where these capabilities matter. They matter a lot. They're missing. And RIMM must address this, and address it right now, because the company simply does not have 2+ years to get their **** together in this regard nor can it play the game of "if we build it they will come."

    No they won't -- they didn't with the Playbook and they won't with BB10 either.

    Bribing developers didn't work with the Playbook (remember, they GAVE THEM AWAY) and it won't work with BB10 either. The market has called "bull****!" on that strategy and it's right on the money -- RIMM has lost a literal 20% of its market value in the last three days and I argue it is precisely because RIMM did not address this issue head-on at the conference.

    Folks the differences here between the Playbook and Android tablets in terms of quality of execution at the base OS level and the resulting power budget issuesare massive.

    Really, seriously massive.

    I have both here -- a Playbook and the "newest and best" of the small 7" Tablets, the Galaxy 2 7.0. These are both tablets with 7" form factors and similar feature sets; the Galaxy runs the newest version of Android, ICS. Both are dual-core processor devices and have similar internal specs.

    Side by side, both starting with a 100% charge, the Playbook while idle lasts a workweek with light use before the red light starts flashing at me, telling me I have to plug it in.

    The Galaxy tab lost 30% of its charge in10 hoursovernight sitting in a sleeve while asleep with nothing running in the background -- no apps, no push email, nothing.

    Now take both on a trip and tell me this doesn't matter. If you whip it out to use it at a customer site and it's dead it sure as does matter. And this is exactly the sort of massive advantage that I was talking about when it comes to QNX .vs. Android (and IOS.) Oh yeah, and the Playbook has HDMI too and the better browser (by far.)

    QNX has provided RIMM with an outrageous power budget advantage -- which is exactly what I expected it to do. If you remember I've been pounding the table on this now since QNX was first acquired by the company. But it's only recently -- with quality hardware and the newest Android releases --that we've been able to quantify that I'm right when it comes to the advantage that I had every reason to believe would be there. I've had my detractors on this, who claimed that the differences would be small to non-existent and that Android and IOS would be "just as good" or damn close.

    The verdict is in:Theadvantage I expected to see is real. It exists. And it's huge, exactly as I predicted it would be from my more than two decades of experience in this field.

    Tight code mattersand power budget is the issue for portable devices. Period. The BB10 phones, unless RIMM screws them up, will have similar advantages over iPhones and Android devices. Samsung just stuck a 2100mah battery in its new Galaxy III device to try to get acceptable battery life out out of the power-wasting pig called "Android" (previous devices were around 1500mah; this is a BIG change!) Batteries cost money, size and mass and sticking bigger ones in the case to solve a software architecture problem is stupid, but it's all you got when you're stuck with code that looks like spaghetti -- and Android does (I've ported it -- I know exactly what it looks like internally.) The problem isn't just in the application code (Android) either; it's an architecture thing. General-purpose Unix kernels, of which Linux and IOS's Berkley base both are simply are not and will never be optimized for mobile, power-restricted devices where every milliwatt-hour matters. QNX was built to be tight and efficient from the start and it remains so. It came from a different philosophy where performance-per-watt-spent and hard real-time response were the "prime directives."

    But none of that will sell a single unit if you can't do what you need to do with it. Better hardware anda better operating system is immaterial if there is no application support. And the premise that RIMM has on trying to monetize the "app store" -- the "ecosystem razors and blades" bull**** -- is a loser.

    In the Android world the manufacturers have given up on this; Google has their app store but none of the other manufacturers try to make money on this aspect of things.

    RIMM is trying to be Apple.

    They have and will continue to fail in doing so.

    RIMM has to focus on makingthe best hardware and best operating system that consumes the least power for the task performed, has the widest application base you can manage to get to run well on the device and provide the best security for the native environment.

    RIMM can do all of those things right now. It has the best operating system with the best power management and the differences there are not small. It can easily build quality hardware. And it can solve the problem of not having the app you need to make the device work for you in your environmentby opening the system to GAPPS rightnow.

    That's the winning path available to RIMM --the only winning path.

    I repeat: RIMM eitheropensBB10 and the Playbook to GAPPSor they die, and I will continue to pound the table on a regular basis until Heins either pulls his head out of his , he is fired and the board replaces him with someone who has an IQ greater than his shoe size, the shareholders revolt, tar and feather the board and boil them in oil, replacing them with people who have a clue, or the stock price goes to zero and the company folds -- and that's exactly what's going to happen if RIMM does not move on this pointin the immediate future.

    Stop the stupid Heins. Stop Heins, RIMM. Throwthe jackass CEOinto the street and open the damn devices to GAPPS this afternoon -- andby doing so save your company.

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    05-05-12 09:17 AM
  20. Economist101's Avatar
    If Apple would to release the same function, I am sure the world would WOW... but not for RIM
    Good point. I'm sure that's why Apple owns less than 10% of the worldwide computer market, and why they don't report Apple TV sales. If what you write us true, people must be "wowed" by those products, just not enough to buy them in large numbers.
    05-05-12 09:28 AM
  21. Eumaeus's Avatar
    BB10 looks really interesting.

    BUT, RIM showed canned demos of the really interesting stuff. What people got to hold in their hands was alpha-level hardware running alpha-level software. This for a product that is supposed to be released in, at the outside, seven months. Not good.

    And smart analysts know that the final hardware and software is only one component of success. Supply-chain, retail, and buyer-experience is HUGE.

    RIM will not be able to afford the volumes to get really good deals on BB10 hardware, but they won't be able to charge much of a premium, either, if they are going to attract new buyers (which they MUST do). So their profit margin will be lower.

    Their devices will be sold beside a million Android phones, and the iPhone 5. In carrier stores, there's no telling what the salespeople will do. Apple, of course, has almost 400 Apple Stores that (a) represent the most profitable square feet in the retail world, and (b) will be 100% dedicated to selling iPhones.

    Each Android of iOS phone sold adds to the network effects, the "stickiness", of those platforms.

    If RIM's CEO would address this, even to say "This is our challenge", I bet investors would have more confidence. Instead he talked of pulling the plug on the airport Blackberry Stores, which seems insane to me, since they are really nice. Why not build on those?
    05-05-12 09:49 AM
  22. morlock_man's Avatar
    -> Blackberry_Boy

    I agree with your assessment of RIM advantage with the QNX-based platform. It's robust, efficient and incredibly easy to relative to a monolithic kernel. It's a distinct advantage.

    However, I believe differently when it comes to opening the platform as a requirement for success. I don't think RIM is trying to be an Apple at all, they're thinking bigger. With the QNX backbone and the BB10 UI, they can position themselves easily as the next Windows CE for industrial and commercial use. As someone who works within the industrial electronics community, I can tell you that their product is amazingly well-suited for workhorse use in systems for process control, medical and electronic instrumentation and other systems where robust, low power, real-time monitoring and control really matter. And with Cascades, developing the interface software becomes much easier and it gives it that next-gen futuristic flash.

    Everyone complains that with Apple and Google claiming a significant marketshare that RIM will have an uphill battle when it comes to the consumer smartphone and tablet marketplace, but thats really only a tiny piece of a much larger pie. They can create this whole new business and industry marketplace, where the device isn't just used for personal information management, but for powering and controlling the infrastructure of the industry itself.

    In short, I think that QNX and BB10 will be powering the future, and RIM's announcement Monday make anyone who currently owns stock quite happy.

    Only 86,350 seconds to go...
    Vorkosigan likes this.
    05-05-12 10:00 AM
  23. crystal_planet's Avatar
    ^^We all know what challenges face RIMM without Thorsten having to say what they are and closing the doors on storefront space is probably what's needed to trim more excess fat to the bottom line.

    I think the court of public opinion has decided that BlackBerry is dead and that's that. At this point if they aren't successful in swaying public opinion, or just as important, wooing developers then having the best o/s or most powerful hardware means nothing.

    And in other news, Apple just announced the new iPhone will be coming out in lavender. As a result, stock prices just doubled.
    05-05-12 10:19 AM
  24. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    Sorry... Didn't read too many posts but I just want to say that I am purchasing more RIMM tomorrow. It's $12. Outlook has neg at $7 and pos at $40. Even if it makes it to $20, which I truly believe it will, it will have been a great investment
    Wow... Not sure how much I had to drink last night, but today is Saturday and the markets are closed Haha
    jkomo001 likes this.
    05-05-12 10:21 AM
  25. NJPhilliesPhan's Avatar
    If the incompetent Hiens would stop making immature comments like "let's rock and roll this" then maybe developers would take BB more seriously and the stock price would rise. Replace Hiens, he is part of the same faction that destroyed BB.
    05-05-12 10:30 AM
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