12-05-13 07:17 PM
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  1. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    must say that Im excited with two things that make an investment a good one. Of course it's not guaranteed but when you have new products coming out (that look great) and a healthy balance sheet to support the transition, a good investment opportunity may arise.

    I don't know if this makes any sense to you but imagine that you are investing in a start-up who already has a valuable brand, assets, client base, no debt and all it's financing secured, for a 30% discount ( $13.5 market price compared to book value of $19.27 per share).

    2012 2011 2010 2009
    Revenue millions $18,435 $19,907 $14,953 $11,065
    Net Income millions $1,164 $3,411 $2,457 $1,892
    Total assets millions $13,731 $12,875 $10,205 $8,101
    Total liabilities millions $3,631 $3,937 $2,602 $2,227
    Total Equity millions $10,100 $8,938 $7,603 $5874
    Shares Outstanding millions 524 521 557 566

    Research In Motion: It's Time To Start Buying - Seeking Alpha

    The numbers clearly point out RIMM is very undervalued as the market is not only giving no value to their 77 million plus users the market is also saying RIMM doesn't have 2.1 Billion in cash and no debt .
    05-04-12 10:07 AM
  2. Shlooky's Avatar
    What these folks are looking for to get them hyped up is some new innovation. Nothing less than the best will satisfy, the street does not care about anything other than a finished product with something new to bring to the tech world. Something that blackberry will have over its competitors that the world does not already know about. Expect them to snub anything blackberry does until it either demonstrates something that has not been done before or puts out a new and exciting finished product.
    After all this delay for bb10 they will be heavily relying on a Xfactor or Xfactor's so to speak on the product to judge its viability, rather than simply having a very good os.
    Agree and RIM needs to start with an APP eco system because people are used to that. What will drive an iPhone user to change over to BB10 if that person say has all the apps he or she needs on the phone? The apps need to be better, a new way of execution, faster apps switching, swipe/gestures. Information at the tip of their finger.

    No crashes, no battery pulls, no running out of memory or leaks, smooth UI, great music player with access to a music library that contains millions of songs, A great video player that will play any format, a great e-mail/calendar and contacts, to name a few.
    Last edited by Shlooky; 05-04-12 at 10:10 AM.
    05-04-12 10:08 AM
  3. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    All this talk of RIMM going bankrupt or won't be around in 2 years are talking from their behinds. These "media" people/spin doctors know to repeat lies over and over until the masses see them as truths and then repeat them as if it's their own thought. Like with saddam and WMD when everyone in the know said there was no WMD and no proof of it. The "media" repeated the lie over and over until the masses believe the lie for fact. This is the world we live in. It's to bad people can not see reality and choose not to think for themselves.
    terminatorx likes this.
    05-04-12 10:13 AM
  4. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    The S3 has a Samsung Music and Video Store with Matching for Music (similar to iTunes Match). It has S Beam. It has S Voice. It has one of the best displays in the industry. It has a great camera. It has the best SoC on the market. It will come with up to 64GB internal storage (and suppord up to 64GB SD cards). Integrated ChatOn.

    You seriously think facial recognition is Android's gimmic? Android stock devices have always been rather minority in the Android ecosystem - mostly as dev devices and to appease the very vocal minority who complain about skins using 10 different user names on every tech blog.

    90% of Andorid devices out there are non-Nexus Samsung/HTC/Moto/LG devices. That's what people think of when they see Android. Skinned versions with tons of OEM Value-Additions bolted onto it. That's why the Skins didn't go anywhere even though ICS' UI is good now. Even though it looks better, it's worth getting a TouchWiz or Sense device just for i.e. the Camera Software.
    Premium1 likes this.
    05-04-12 10:17 AM
  5. morlock_man's Avatar
    The glimpse of Blackberry Flow was just giving everyone a peek at RIM's poker hand. It's not just the UI that's important in this situation, its the background process that powers that aspect of multitasking. Anyone who's used a PlayBook extensively over the last year has seen the result. That's not what most people would have taken away from the demo, especially if you're not familiar with the PlayBook. To implement flawless realtime multitasking is the dream of mobile computing. I don't believe this level is possible with the current monolithic kernel framework.

    Heins was quite clear during the developers keynote that they're keeping things secretive right now. To not take away from Heins abilities as a CEO, they likely want a turn around in the stock prior to appointing a CMO, otherwise it makes him look weak, even with a strong product. They've been very open with regards to platform fundamentals and establishing ties with developers, but I believe there's a lot going on behind the scenes.

    RIM's current motto is 'Be Bold', but come Monday's reveal I'm expecting them to 'Be Astonishing'.
    05-04-12 10:23 AM
  6. dandbj13's Avatar
    Nice bounce. Back over 12.
    05-04-12 10:51 AM
  7. Stewartj1's Avatar
    It may be not enough to jump the stock a whole much but with APPL trading at $588, GOOG $613, do you really think RIMM should be trading at $12 ?? Either Apple or Google are overrated or RIMM is miserably underrated!

    In my QFolio app on my PlayBook I'm following:

    Apple (AAPL)
    Abbott (ABT)
    Dell (DELL)
    Google (GOOG)
    Intel (INTC)
    Microsoft (MSFT)
    Qualcomm (QCOM)
    Research in Motion (RIMM)

    Guess who's the only one in red?
    At this moment RIMM is green but the red list contains:

    APPL, apple
    Bax:us, Baxter international
    Rho6:gr, Roche holdings
    Si:us, Siemens
    Htj:gr, htc
    Smsn:Li, samsung
    05-04-12 10:56 AM
  8. KAM1138's Avatar

    The numbers clearly point out RIMM is very undervalued as the market is not only giving no value to their 77 million plus users the market is also saying RIMM doesn't have 2.1 Billion in cash and no debt .
    Agree. The market isn't governed by sober analysis of actual facts--it is governed by panic-stricken or euphoria-mad dopes who control billions in assets and who react to news (which is often outright false) and ignore actual Data.

    Can RIM end up going out of business...sure, but so can anyone. I don't happen to think it is likely, and today's stock price seems like a bargain to me.

    My opinion (I'm not an expert) is that RIM has very solid business fundamentals, and if they can step up their game in marketing (which is where Apple really shines) they can move up again.
    sf49ers likes this.
    05-04-12 11:04 AM
  9. torches's Avatar
    I think everyone seriously needs to stop obsessively following the share price...just leave it be.

    You need to recognise the stock market is imperfect and does not correctly assign the right value to an entity; we should all know that the stock market is characterized by panic & greed, which brings volatility. Especially in today's world of easy access to trading and widespread financial media poring/reporting over the smallest of details, these things only add to your worry and reduce your discipline.
    app_Developer and sf49ers like this.
    05-04-12 11:08 AM
  10. mdarscott's Avatar
    This is as close to an answer as you are going to get:
    BlackBerry maker RIM: Share slide stops but rollercoaster continues - thestar.com
    I agree with those who say stop obsessing over the stock price. The analysts are not dissing the quality of the products unveiled at BB World but only looking for really short-term relief.
    After plunging for three straight days, shares of BlackBerry-maker Research in Motion are up a bit Friday. But it was a wild ride to get there.

    In pre-market trading, RIM shares hit $11.95, before plunging to $11.63 15 minutes after markets opened, then finally rising to $11.93 by 11:15.

    Thursday, they hit their lowest level since 2003, closing at $11.91. The companys shares have been falling almost since the moment CEO Thorsten Heins gave the world a sneak preview of the long-awaited BB10 operating system, at RIMs annual BlackBerry World conference and BB10 Jam developers meeting in Florida.

    While developers and many analysts were impressed by what they saw, investors had been hoping for a firmer release date for BB10 phones, which arent expected to hit the market until fall.

    Analysts have also suggested some investors had been hoping to see the company announce some kind of agreement this week to license its software out to other companies, but Heins ruled that out until after BB10 is launched.
    05-04-12 11:41 AM
  11. Krik103's Avatar
    Lets start a contest, what would be RIMM's share value in the next 3, 6, 9 and 12 months.

    I personally don't know, IMO it will depend on how the BB10 is accepted by the consumers, and that will take at least 6-9 months to know...
    05-04-12 12:09 PM
  12. cgk's Avatar
    Well according to one of the first posts in the thread which is 12 months ago, it should be about $50!
    05-04-12 12:23 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    I personally don't know, IMO it will depend on how the BB10 is accepted by the consumers, and that will take at least 6-9 months to know...
    Right, to properly set expectations, RIM isn't going to sell 3-4 million BB10 phones in the first quarter of production, especially if the first version (a) doesn't have a keyboard and (b) is the expensive "flagship" model.

    So we're looking at probably a full year still before we know how the recovery, if there will be one, is going. So if people want to bet on a recovery, they should probably put their money elsewhere for a year and join the recovery in 2013 instead.
    05-04-12 12:40 PM
  14. morlock_man's Avatar
    Right, to properly set expectations, RIM isn't going to sell 3-4 million BB10 phones in the first quarter of production, especially if the first version (a) doesn't have a keyboard and (b) is the expensive "flagship" model.

    So we're looking at probably a full year still before we know how the recovery, if there will be one, is going. So if people want to bet on a recovery, they should probably put their money elsewhere for a year and join the recovery in 2013 instead.
    I think you'll soon have to stop looking at RIM as just a phone company.
    undone and sf49ers like this.
    05-04-12 12:48 PM
  15. terminatorx's Avatar
    Look at Playbook... took them a year to get email out and it still is a buggy, slow piece of crap (the email app)
    You weren't able to use a PC or some other system in that year to send your email, or use the PB browser to access email instead of waiting for the native app? I'm not saying you are not having an issue with the email, but personally I have never experienced any problems or slowness. What bugs were you referring to specifically?
    05-04-12 12:55 PM
  16. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Right, to properly set expectations, RIM isn't going to sell 3-4 million BB10 phones in the first quarter of production, especially if the first version (a) doesn't have a keyboard and (b) is the expensive "flagship" model.

    So we're looking at probably a full year still before we know how the recovery, if there will be one, is going. So if people want to bet on a recovery, they should probably put their money elsewhere for a year and join the recovery in 2013 instead.
    I agree completely. And given the current lack of new product--and the lack of a CMO to flog the current product properly--I honestly expect the stock to go even lower. Even in the best-case scenario I can think of, I don't see a lot of market confidence in RIM for at least three quarters, barring some kind of miracle.

    I've considered selling my RIM shares in anticipation of a further drop, but I've usually been horrible at timing the market. For instance, I'd thought of shorting AAPL when it closed over $630, but I didn't expect a drop for a few more months... BTW, I don't expect it to get back there...
    05-04-12 12:59 PM
  17. undone's Avatar
    Right, to properly set expectations, RIM isn't going to sell 3-4 million BB10 phones in the first quarter of production, especially if the first version (a) doesn't have a keyboard and (b) is the expensive "flagship" model.
    This could be very much true, but I would almost bet the opposite. 3-4 million first quarter, then a decline in following quarter(s) wouldnt be a surprise. Out of your 70 million BB users you cant get 3-4 million to buy them? Tho the Keyboard is a hook for sure and it would be foolish not to have it set to launch soon after.
    05-04-12 01:05 PM
  18. terminatorx's Avatar
    What will drive an iPhone user to change over to BB10 if that person say has all the apps he or she needs on the phone?
    Just ask any person who has used/converted to iPhone then switched back to BB, and you'll have your answer. I could give you the answer here, but since you ask that question you obviously aren't qualified to affirm the answer as you did. It's not all about apps. Perhaps to you, but not to the entire world. BlackBerry has close to 100,000 apps. How many do you want? Did you run all 100,000 already?
    CDM76 likes this.
    05-04-12 01:12 PM
  19. vrs626's Avatar
    Just ask any person who has used/converted to iPhone then switched back to BB, and you'll have your answer. I could give you the answer here, but since you ask that question you obviously aren't qualified to affirm the answer as you did. It's not all about apps. Perhaps to you, but not to the entire world. BlackBerry has close to 100,000 apps. How many do you want? Did you run all 100,000 already?
    It's not just about the quantity of apps, it's about having the popular apps that allows users to interact with friends on other platforms....Words with Friends, Draw Something, etc., and major apps like Netflix, Kindle, Skype. Without those types of apps BB10 is DOA. RIM is a Canadian company and there isn't even an official NHL app for Blackberry right now.
    05-04-12 01:17 PM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    This could be very much true, but I would almost bet the opposite. 3-4 million first quarter, then a decline in following quarter(s) wouldnt be a surprise. Out of your 70 million BB users you cant get 3-4 million to buy them? Tho the Keyboard is a hook for sure and it would be foolish not to have it set to launch soon after.
    It's not 70 million, a sizable number will be corporate and have no choice in the phone, many will be in markets where the BB10 devices will not launch first quarter, many will be priced out (if we assume the first bb10 device is a premium device), many will be in contract - realistically you might be really talking about 10 million people (depending on the launch regions) and you aren't going to get a conversation rate of 50% in one quarter.
    05-04-12 01:17 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Just ask any person who has used/converted to iPhone then switched back to BB, and you'll have your answer. I could give you the answer here, but since you ask that question you obviously aren't qualified to affirm the answer as you did. It's not all about apps. Perhaps to you, but not to the entire world. BlackBerry has close to 100,000 apps. How many do you want? Did you run all 100,000 already?
    You are getting caught up in the "we don't need a million apps" red herring.

    It's about the added functionality. No, plenty of people subsist without apps, but it is hard to argue that apps do create a more functional environment for those that need it.

    In the end, choice is good. Logic dictates that a good ecosystem with plenty of choice will be more attractive to consumers.

    Now, your latent argument -- that RIM has enough apps -- is not necessarily wrong; a lot of folks just figure they could use a few more key ones.
    05-04-12 01:29 PM
  22. undone's Avatar
    You are getting caught up in the "we don't need a million apps" red herring.

    It's about the added functionality. No, plenty of people subsist without apps, but it is hard to argue that apps do create a more functional environment for those that need it.

    In the end, choice is good. Logic dictates that a good ecosystem with plenty of choice will be more attractive to consumers.

    Now, your latent argument -- that RIM has enough apps -- is not necessarily wrong; a lot of folks just figure they could use a few more key ones.
    Right on...Even RIM recognizes they need the big named apps to keep the interest in BB products.
    05-04-12 01:33 PM
  23. CDM76's Avatar
    Right, to properly set expectations, RIM isn't going to sell 3-4 million BB10 phones in the first quarter of production,
    Really ? They are selling more than that a month and on a dead os that is being replaced .... I think 3 million per quarter is actually pretty realistic. Even if only one model is released.
    05-04-12 01:42 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    Really ? They are selling more than that a month and on a dead os that is being replaced .... I think 3 million per quarter is actually pretty realistic. Even if only one model is released.
    Most of those sales are for models that are a fraction of the price of what this first BB10 model will be.

    With a completely new platform and one high end model, it will take time for it to roll out to all the carriers around the world. Some people will wait for the keyboard model. Others will wait to see if it drops in price by $200 like the Playbook did.

    (Alternatively, RIM could discount the phone heavily from the first day, but then how are they ever going to bring their profits back to what they were a year or two ago? If they can't make money on these new phones, the stock will never recover)

    Look how many smartphones Nokia sells versus how many Lumias they sold in the first quarter.
    05-04-12 02:00 PM
  25. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    It's not just about the quantity of apps, it's about having the popular apps that allows users to interact with friends on other platforms....Words with Friends, Draw Something, etc., and major apps like Netflix, Kindle, Skype. Without those types of apps BB10 is DOA. RIM is a Canadian company and there isn't even an official NHL app for Blackberry right now.
    And to add on to that which was the original intent, is the ecosystem. Not just the apps. But if a user have a bunch of apps, manages and buys all their media through itunes and likes the iCloud features and so on..... it's harder to get that user to change platforms because they have to give up all that and hope the next platform has the same or better and have the patience to switch. For some it's not a problem for other's its just easier to stay. I mean how many of us have friends and/or family that keep the same stupid phone even though they hate it. For some reason it's just not worth it to them to switch.

    The cost of switching platforms nowadays is higher than it was and not to mention the inconvenience now that more and more of our activities are integrated into 1 platform. Not saying it's good or bad, but that's how it is. How many people held or on still hold on to blackberry because BBM is a big part of their life. Same idea. And this is exactly what Apple, Google, MS and all the companies want us to do.... become so heavily dependant on their services, that we won't leave because of the cost and inconvenience. In addition to a new OS, RIM needs an ecosystem that can compete.
    vrs626 likes this.
    05-04-12 02:20 PM
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