12-05-13 07:17 PM
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  1. OzarkaTexile's Avatar
    Cfot. You must be one of those delusional people who scream at the television and expect it to change the outcome of the game. No company cares what you post on random blog sites. Move on.

    OMG and Ozarka. What sites do you post on for webos, htc, nokia, etc. How are those companies doing? Id like to see more of your insights and maybe even a comparison. You dont just bash RIM do you? That would be absurd.
    Here's a quick comparison:

    -- WebOS is dead. Sad that they got the stink of HP on them before they died, but Palm had a good run.
    -- HTC played the commodity hardware game and lost. Low margin is a harsh mistress.
    -- Nokia suffered from even worse arrogance than RIM. They spent years telling everyone how great Symbian was and now they just make hardware for MSFT.

    RIM is still dying. They are wounded and are lying in the middle of the street, bleeding. Loved ones and sympathetic bystanders are in a circle watching, helpless. In the distance, the siren of the BB10 ambulance can be heard. Help is on the way. Will it get there in time? Will it be able to save RIM when it arrives? Nobody knows.

    It's not bashing RIM to say that they are dying. It's not bashing RIM to say that the PlayBook was a massive failure. It's not bashing RIM to say that their stock has lost 90% of it's value since the iPhone was introduced.
    timberdc, cgk, Rickroller and 7 others like this.
    07-19-12 03:42 PM
  2. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Here's a quick comparison:

    -- WebOS is dead. Sad that they got the stink of HP on them before they died, but Palm had a good run.
    -- HTC played the commodity hardware game and lost. Low margin is a harsh mistress.
    -- Nokia suffered from even worse arrogance than RIM. They spent years telling everyone how great Symbian was and now they just make hardware for MSFT.

    RIM is still dying. They are wounded and are lying in the middle of the street, bleeding. Loved ones and sympathetic bystanders are in a circle watching, helpless. In the distance, the siren of the BB10 ambulance can be heard. Help is on the way. Will it get there in time? Will it be able to save RIM when it arrives? Nobody knows.

    It's not bashing RIM to say that they are dying. It's not bashing RIM to say that the PlayBook was a massive failure. It's not bashing RIM to say that their stock has lost 90% of it's value since the iPhone was introduced.
    This is a good analogy. Really like the bb10 ambulance.
    07-19-12 03:51 PM
  3. BaconMunch's Avatar
    This is a good analogy. Really like the bb10 ambulance.
    Some days around here it feels more like ...

    07-19-12 04:01 PM
  4. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Here's a quick comparison:

    -- WebOS is dead. Sad that they got the stink of HP on them before they died, but Palm had a good run.
    -- HTC played the commodity hardware game and lost. Low margin is a harsh mistress.
    -- Nokia suffered from even worse arrogance than RIM. They spent years telling everyone how great Symbian was and now they just make hardware for MSFT.

    RIM is still dying. They are wounded and are lying in the middle of the street, bleeding. Loved ones and sympathetic bystanders are in a circle watching, helpless. In the distance, the siren of the BB10 ambulance can be heard. Help is on the way. Will it get there in time? Will it be able to save RIM when it arrives? Nobody knows.

    It's not bashing RIM to say that they are dying. It's not bashing RIM to say that the PlayBook was a massive failure. It's not bashing RIM to say that their stock has lost 90% of it's value since the iPhone was introduced.
    I think a lot of people here forget this. Just because someone points out how bad things are going, or posts a link to a story about it, doesn't mean they are bashing RIM or Blackberry. Some are, but not everyone. The trolls are usually easy to spot. Just ingore and report them, and move on. Let RIM and the MODs fight that battle.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    07-19-12 04:05 PM
  5. hurds's Avatar
    No, OMG and Ozarka are right. To say that RIM is in a better position long term is delusional.
    They aren't right. You just agree. Big difference.
    07-19-12 04:14 PM
  6. hurds's Avatar
    Nokia is almost as bad, but even their future is slightly brighter. Listen, I hope RIM succeeds. I like my 9650 and PB and don't own a single iProduct. But to think RIM is in a strong position or that RIM's long term future is secure or that they are in a strong position is just not realistic. I post because I want RIM to succeed. Hopefully someone in Waterloo (other than Mr. Saunders who seems to get it) will hit the panic button and actually do something. Time is not on RIM's side and they need to realize that yet they act with absolutely no urgency. Their sales figures and stock price reflect that, yet they still lumber along like they have all year.
    You should buy an iproduct. They are amazing. It's good to try out everything.

    RIM is in the strongest position possible and this is why the competition fears them. You might not see it but that's fine.

    Saying you want RIM to succeed and then constantly repeating the same negative points seems uninitelligent. RIM knows exactly how much time they have. They obviously wouldn't have delayed anything if they didn't.

    I'm basing my beliefs on one thing. RIM knows and will always know far more than you ever will about the tech and mobile industry. If you could explain some of your background to say how you are so wise maybe that would help but I doubt it.

    Here's the thing. RIM isn't doing so horrible. Are they doing as well as samsung and apple? No. But a lot can change in a year and it will.

    I just don't know why someone would keep whining and complaining since it obviously serves no purpose here other than trolling/derailing. Contact rim directly and tell them how bad they are doing. Start a thread after you hear back from them and what they think of what you say.
    07-19-12 04:24 PM
  7. thebignewt's Avatar
    Personally I wish I still wanted a BB. They are just too slow on the draw in a quick draw competition IMO. Stock prices are a lot about how people think sales are going to go in the next year or so. And that ain't looking too good for RIM. The number of people waiting for BB 10 is dwindling by the day. And BB 10 is just software, not even a cool phone. I used to hang out on other forums (remember PinStack, and BlackberryForums?) and we'd be searching for stores near us that had the new phones in stock on release day, just like Apple does now. We never cared about the OS. BRING BACK THE CURVE!
    Last edited by thebignewt; 07-19-12 at 04:39 PM.
    07-19-12 04:31 PM
  8. hurds's Avatar
    Here's a quick comparison:

    -- WebOS is dead. Sad that they got the stink of HP on them before they died, but Palm had a good run.
    -- HTC played the commodity hardware game and lost. Low margin is a harsh mistress.
    -- Nokia suffered from even worse arrogance than RIM. They spent years telling everyone how great Symbian was and now they just make hardware for MSFT.

    RIM is still dying. They are wounded and are lying in the middle of the street, bleeding. Loved ones and sympathetic bystanders are in a circle watching, helpless. In the distance, the siren of the BB10 ambulance can be heard. Help is on the way. Will it get there in time? Will it be able to save RIM when it arrives? Nobody knows.

    It's not bashing RIM to say that they are dying. It's not bashing RIM to say that the PlayBook was a massive failure. It's not bashing RIM to say that their stock has lost 90% of it's value since the iPhone was introduced.
    So what other websites do you go to?



    RIM is by far the most competitive tech company across industries. Growth may have slowed but that's both a reflection of a general trend in the market and RIM going through a transition.

    Saying they are dying is an opinion and could be considered bashing. Saying the playbook is a failure is an opinion and I would consider it trolling. RIM stock value has definitely dropped but if you base your opinion off that then I don't value your opinion for anything. Stock price lags behind actual performance so anyone who bases their opinion on that is behind on the times.

    Now continually repeating the same negative Opinion in every thead to me is sad and a waste of time but you are obviously free to do so.



    If you ingore everything else please answer this? How fo you enjoy your playbook? What do you think of the screen? Multitasking? Webrowser? Dual speakers? How about the bbs keyboard? Call quality? Reception?
    07-19-12 04:33 PM
  9. ColdFistOfTruth's Avatar
    Cfot. You must be one of those delusional people who scream at the television and expect it to change the outcome of the game. No company cares what you post on random blog sites. Move on.
    Wow. Really? That's the best you have? Baseless speculation?

    Stick with facts (although you have none in my case) as it works better. Facts I'm working with here on this forum are my experience as a customer (both phone device and BES), RIM's execution as a company, and the resulting market share and financial issues the latter entails. INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY RIM WILL CEASE TO EXIST IN THE FUTURE BASED ON THE FACTS OBSERVED, *NOT* ON MY WISHES AND DESIRES.

    But I *AM* honestly OK with you not caring what I post. I'm just not sure that's true since you took the time to respond (even if it's a flame. I can take it. I'm a big boy. I presume you are too).

    But I will note that in my opinion, YOU are the delusional one because, up to this point the facts doing support the sunshine and gummy bears future you are SURE RIM is cruising for. (And I should throw in unicorns farting rainbows as someone else brilliantly posted).

    The other mistake you are making is ASSUMING everyone predicting RIM's troubles is consciously against RIM wishing them ill. Did you ever consider the very real possibility they are making an objective call based on currently available information?

    -CFOT
    07-19-12 04:37 PM
  10. hurds's Avatar
    Personally I wish I still wanted a BB. They are just too slow on the draw in a quick draw competition IMO. Stock prices are a lot about how people think sales are going to go in the next year or so. And that ain't looking too good for RIM. The number of people waiting for BB 10 is dwindling by the day. And BB 10 is just software, not even a cool phone. BRING BACK THE CURVE!
    Stock prices about a year ahead? How come rims only at 10 now? Nobody even knows about BB10 so I doubt rims too worried about people waiting.

    You should get a curve. They just released a new one I think. Its the best smartphone RIMs ever made, sales proove it.
    07-19-12 04:39 PM
  11. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Stock prices about a year ahead? How come rims only at 10 now? Nobody even knows about BB10 so I doubt rims too worried about people waiting.

    You should get a curve. They just released a new one I think. Its the best smartphone RIMs ever made, sales proove it.
    Sales numbers donot mean it's the best.
    07-19-12 04:48 PM
  12. hurds's Avatar
    Wow. Really? That's the best you have? Baseless speculation?

    Stick with facts (although you have none in my case) as it works better. Facts I'm working with here on this forum are my experience as a customer (both phone device and BES), RIM's execution as a company, and the resulting market share and financial issues the latter entails. INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY RIM WILL CEASE TO EXIST IN THE FUTURE BASED ON THE FACTS OBSERVED, *NOT* ON MY WISHES AND DESIRES.

    But I *AM* honestly OK with you not caring what I post. I'm just not sure that's true since you took the time to respond (even if it's a flame. I can take it. I'm a big boy. I presume you are too).

    But I will note that in my opinion, YOU are the delusional one because, up to this point the facts doing support the sunshine and gummy bears future you are SURE RIM is cruising for. (And I should throw in unicorns farting rainbows as someone else brilliantly posted).

    The other mistake you are making is ASSUMING everyone predicting RIM's troubles is consciously against RIM wishing them ill. Did you ever consider the very real possibility they are making an objective call based on currently available information?

    -CFOT
    I didn't intend to flame. I'm just saying bringing up negatives about RIM everyone already knows on a blog site is like screaming at the tv while watching sports and expecting a result. You have some insight contact RIM. I've done that before to companies.

    Did I say everything was gummy bears? RIM is in a strong position despite all the negative people constantly repeat ad naseum. Stocks can be volatile and it wouldn't take much for it to jump.

    I never said I didn't care, I said companies don't care what you post on blog sites. They are busy running there companies and have far more resources available to them. You think amazon, apple, google, htc, nokia visit forums to figure out what to do?

    Your last statement makes sense but that would show how powerful the media is in forming peoples perceptions and peoples tendancy to seek out the negative. I could easily find information to support what a great future I believe RIM has. Its just not the headline grabbing attention getter everyone else is reading. It also make take a slight bit of forsight I'm starting to think people don't have. So based on the current readily available information they might come to reasonable conclusions. So again, this could prove that the average commenter has nod idea what the real situation is other than what's given to them by the media. Garbage in garbage out. But I guess that's how it is. People will keep repeating what's reported without any thought until the general consensus of the new changes
    07-19-12 04:54 PM
  13. hurds's Avatar
    Sales numbers donot mean it's the best.
    Thanks. Ill remember that when someone brings up apple or samsung.
    07-19-12 04:57 PM
  14. johnenglish's Avatar
    RIM is still dying. They are wounded and are lying in the middle of the street, bleeding. Loved ones and sympathetic bystanders are in a circle watching, helpless. In the distance, the siren of the BB10 ambulance can be heard. Help is on the way. Will it get there in time? Will it be able to save RIM when it arrives? Nobody knows.
    Add something about the ambulance getting stuck stoplights.

    Realistically though, the best case scenario for RIM is that BBX comes out in 2013 Q1 and is rock solid and glitch-free and brings them up to parity with iOS and Android. However, they still face an almost impossible battle because they're late entrants into a market that already has iOS, Android and Windows Phone plus those platforms associated ecosystems not to mention accessory support and enterprise adoptation. That's the best case.

    The HUGE unknown that I don't see being address satisfactorily is anyone explaining how BBX is going to be better than its competitors. Even if it ships on time and in perfect condition, why, assuming that all of RIMs promises come true and BBX is everything it's supposed to be, would people buy or switch to a BBX phone instead of an iPhone or Windows phone or Android device?

    The issue is that those devices captures lots of people from BlackBerrys looking for new phones and first time entrants into the smart phone market. They were successful becuase they offered an good alternative to the BlackBerrys that many people were using. What incentive is there to return to BlackBerry when their device now does whsat they need it to?
    07-19-12 05:09 PM
  15. sosumi11's Avatar
    Sales numbers donot mean it's the best.
    Confirmed by Microsoft Windows. However, Windows dominated because they commoditized the hardware. The same thing that Google's Android is doing.

    Cheap still wins market share.

    Unless your company name is Nokia.
    07-19-12 05:33 PM
  16. snowthedirtbub's Avatar
    If I was RIM I would try to strike a deal with carriers. Since Blackberries are use quite a bit less of data compared to iPhones and Androids they should offer a Blackberry data plan. If you buy a blackberry instead of paying $40 a month for data you only have to pay $30 or whatever. I doubt the carriers would go for it though.
    07-19-12 06:16 PM
  17. sosumi11's Avatar
    If I was RIM I would try to strike a deal with carriers. Since Blackberries are use quite a bit less of data compared to iPhones and Androids they should offer a Blackberry data plan. If you buy a blackberry instead of paying $40 a month for data you only have to pay $30 or whatever. I doubt the carriers would go for it though.
    BlackBerries filled a void with their unique methods of handling text-based data. Today, with higher definition media and desktop class web browsing, this would be like charging less for carrier service because you are still running DOS on your device.

    And you think this is a selling point?
    07-19-12 06:24 PM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The HUGE unknown that I don't see being address satisfactorily is anyone explaining how BBX is going to be better than its competitors. Even if it ships on time and in perfect condition, why, assuming that all of RIMs promises come true and BBX is everything it's supposed to be, would people buy or switch to a BBX phone instead of an iPhone or Windows phone or Android device?
    novelty is a big factor here ... nerds love novelties ... and what nerds love ... consumers will.
    07-19-12 06:25 PM
  19. hootyhoo's Avatar
    If I was RIM I would try to strike a deal with carriers. Since Blackberries are use quite a bit less of data compared to iPhones and Androids they should offer a Blackberry data plan. If you buy a blackberry instead of paying $40 a month for data you only have to pay $30 or whatever. I doubt the carriers would go for it though.
    If you use a bb like you would an iphone or android (presumably bb10 is going to narrow that gap), I think that the data use will be similar.
    app_Developer and anon1727506 like this.
    07-19-12 06:29 PM
  20. Knightcrawler's Avatar
    asking why someone would switch to bb10 from ios/droid is akin to asking why someone would switch from ios to android, even though (until very recently) android is not as smooth, doesn't have as many apps and is less secure then ios.

    Who knows why someone would, but clearly that hasn't stopped people from doing so.
    07-19-12 07:23 PM
  21. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    Wow.

    There seems to be a pretty big talking point. "RIM exactly where they are because themselves".

    When people read that it sounds bad to them. But RIM is in far better position than any other company for the long term.
    Better position than any other company for the long term? Really?
    07-19-12 07:54 PM
  22. jelp2's Avatar
    However, they still face an almost impossible battle because they're late entrants into a market that already has iOS, Android and Windows Phone
    I can't stand this rationale. Everyone loves to say RIM is late to the market. They CREATED the market. Apple was five years late to the market, Android was eight years late to the market. There's no such things late to the market. If you have a sound product and deliver it properly people will buy.
    Wasn't Hyundai about 80 years 'late' to the market?
    07-19-12 08:12 PM
  23. snowthedirtbub's Avatar
    BlackBerries filled a void with their unique methods of handling text-based data. Today, with higher definition media and desktop class web browsing, this would be like charging less for carrier service because you are still running DOS on your device.

    And you think this is a selling point?
    Cheaper price isn't a selling point? Your not selling the blackberry your selling a smartphone at a cheaper price.
    07-19-12 08:47 PM
  24. berklon's Avatar
    Better position than any other company for the long term? Really?
    It's like saying someone is ready to attack from the fetal position, isn't it?

    And I'm not sure RIM will even have a "long term".
    07-19-12 08:51 PM
  25. OMGitworks's Avatar
    You should buy an iproduct. They are amazing. It's good to try out everything.

    RIM is in the strongest position possible and this is why the competition fears them. You might not see it but that's fine.

    Saying you want RIM to succeed and then constantly repeating the same negative points seems uninitelligent. RIM knows exactly how much time they have. They obviously wouldn't have delayed anything if they didn't.

    I'm basing my beliefs on one thing. RIM knows and will always know far more than you ever will about the tech and mobile industry. If you could explain some of your background to say how you are so wise maybe that would help but I doubt it.

    Here's the thing. RIM isn't doing so horrible. Are they doing as well as samsung and apple? No. But a lot can change in a year and it will.

    I just don't know why someone would keep whining and complaining since it obviously serves no purpose here other than trolling/derailing. Contact rim directly and tell them how bad they are doing. Start a thread after you hear back from them and what they think of what you say.
    I give, you win. I can't have a meaningful dialogue with someone who thinks "Rim isn't doing so horrible" and "RIM is in the strongest position possible and this is why the competition fears them. You might not see it but that's fine." "strongest possible position" how can that be in any rational universe.

    Here's a thought. Let me know, factually, how RIM is so strong. Sales numbers, stock price and any other verifiable metric says RIM is in a death spiral, sorry you don't see that.

    I know you can't or won't because "I'm basing my beliefs on one thing. RIM knows and will always know far more than you ever will about the tech and mobile industry. " That same arrogance got RIM where it is today, thinking they know better than the consumer. Please go back and read the entire thread. Like so many posters before you, you can tell the realists we are wrong and time will likely prove you wrong. Prem Watsa has $400M worth of wrong. Your colleagues posted about how wrong we were ab out RIMM stock, because Prem Watsa knows more than I ever would, yet he's lost $400M+ at this point. Sometimes smart people are wrong. Sometimes once great companies lose their way and fail, some bounce back. I'm hoping they bounce back, but they aren't giving me much to work with.

    Its not unintelligent to hope RIM succeeds, but point out how they keep shooting themselves in the foot, its just the RIM reality. What is unintelligent is to ignore the facts and place all of your faith blindly in those that have failed you for the last 2 years.
    Last edited by OMGitworks; 07-19-12 at 10:30 PM.
    07-19-12 10:26 PM
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