12-05-13 07:17 PM
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  1. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    12 more days like today and it will be a penny stock. Scary to think what will happen after the earnings report, or god forbid they have another noc issue like the last one when they upgraded bis. I'd love to see them turn it around, but it's not looking very good right now to say the least.
    In this very thread I said I thought it would be close to 8 by end of June. 5 days to go and we're almost there.

    I have a phone line that's coming off contract on 12/1 of this year. I was really looking forward to checking out the phone.

    But, as you said, things don't look so good right now.

    I just don't see how one phone/product can turn everything around so quickly.
    06-25-12 07:56 PM
  2. lynxs_claw's Avatar

    But, as you said, things don't look so good right now.

    I just don't see how one phone/product can turn everything around so quickly.
    Just one product comes to mind "ipod" and with that .. it changed it all for another down and out company that rebounded
    06-25-12 08:02 PM
  3. h20work's Avatar
    I've been a rim supporter for 10+ years, and buy a new device yearly (when one is available on vzw). I don't want an apple anything, android, etc.

    Bb10 better be magical beyond the vaporware packaged as apps they've shown off so far.... I'm trying to keep the faith, but damn do they make it hard
    06-25-12 08:09 PM
  4. h20work's Avatar
    Just one product comes to mind "ipod" and with that .. it changed it all for another down and out company that rebounded
    Yes, the ipod changed apple forever. Unlike the ipod, bb10 is going up some serious competition trying to reclaim bb place as a market leader. The ipod came about at the right time, bb10 is way behind. One time where I'm hoping i'm wrong.
    06-25-12 08:13 PM
  5. berklon's Avatar
    Just one product comes to mind "ipod" and with that .. it changed it all for another down and out company that rebounded
    The iPod was a game changer. When the iPod was released, portable MP3 players was in it's infancy. Not a lot of people had MP3 players. iPod came in a swept up.

    The smart phone market is no longer in it's infancy, and millions and millions of people already own smart phones. A BB10 phone is just another smart phone in a long line of smart phones on the market - except it's starting the game late and has way too much ground to make up (both in market share and ecosystem). What will a BB10 phone do that will turn people away from other smart phones?

    You see, your example isn't exactly an Apples to Apples (pardon the pun) comparison. Ignoring that they're in different markets, the iPod upon release and BB10 (when released) are/will be in two totally different stages of their respective markets.

    So your comparison is severely flawed.
    kingest_kong and cgk like this.
    06-25-12 08:14 PM
  6. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Just one product comes to mind "ipod" and with that .. it changed it all for another down and out company that rebounded
    I understand. But you can't just say 'iPod' without ignoring the consumer culture that took the iPod and made it what it was.

    That consumer culture does not exist any longer. It's a very different ball game.

    And, in my very humble opinion and having never owned an iPod, it was MicroSoft that saved Apple. Not the iPod.
    06-25-12 08:20 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I think the Morgan Stanley analyst's take was very much a "worst case" scenario. If RIM succeeds in cutting the $1bln in costs that they are targeting, and roughly maintain subscription levels, they're a viable business.

    And that analysis assumes that BB10 doesn't set sales charts on fire.
    06-25-12 08:22 PM
  8. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    I understand. But you can't just say 'iPod' without ignoring the consumer culture that took the iPod and made it what it was.

    That consumer culture does not exist any longer. It's a very different ball game.

    And, in my very humble opinion and having never owned an iPod, it was MicroSoft that saved Apple. Not the iPod.
    MS didn't really save Apple.. they gave them the backing they needed to survive a little longer.. and Jobs' injection helped them survive even longer.. they rebounded with the ipod.

    What's the difference? Apple is analogous to Microsoft and hopefully RIM is to Apple. Why are people different today than they were only 15 years ago. Technology is technology and it advances all the time. Are we at the limit of what technology can do or provide with respect to a phone or a tablet or anything for that matter? Is innovation dead.. is Apple at the highest level any company can technically achieve .. absolutely not. So why is RIM any different.

    The only thing I see different with RIM is how the entire media and wallstreet contantly bash it. And that's the only thing in my mind which may make RIM fail. Everything else is the same.
    06-25-12 08:39 PM
  9. h20work's Avatar
    MS didn't really save Apple.. they gave them the backing they needed to survive a little longer.. and Jobs' injection helped them survive even longer.. they rebounded with the ipod.

    What's the difference? Apple is analogous to Microsoft and hopefully RIM is to Apple. Why are people different today than they were only 15 years ago. Technology is technology and it advances all the time. Are we at the limit of what technology can do or provide with respect to a phone or a tablet or anything for that matter? Is innovation dead.. is Apple at the highest level any company can technically achieve .. absolutely not. So why is RIM any different.

    The only thing I see different with RIM is how the entire media and wallstreet contantly bash it. And that's the only thing in my mind which may make RIM fail. Everything else is the same.
    As a RIM Loyalist, I want them to give me a reason to stick around. How many products does RIM produce? Can they at least do one a year like everyone else? I had a 9530 and waited and waited for the 9550. How long after I was eligible for an upgrade did it take them to release the 9850/9860. Their first "consumer" device and they left us hanging. Look at the pb now, it still can't email as well as any os5 device

    Call me a troll now, I don't care.
    Magnesus likes this.
    06-25-12 09:42 PM
  10. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar

    What's the difference? Apple is analogous to Microsoft and hopefully RIM is to Apple. Why are people different today than they were only 15 years ago. Technology is technology and it advances all the time. Are we at the limit of what technology can do or provide with respect to a phone or a tablet or anything for that matter? Is innovation dead.. is Apple at the highest level any company can technically achieve .. absolutely not. So why is RIM any different.

    The only thing I see different with RIM is how the entire media and wallstreet contantly bash it. And that's the only thing in my mind which may make RIM fail. Everything else is the same.
    The differences are many. I'd start with the fact that you want to compare a device that was nothing more than a digital music player to a smart phone.

    Kids, joggers, yoga moms, teachers wanted one under their Christmas/Chanukah tree so they could listen to their music. It's that simple.

    They weren't web browsing, multi-tasking, conquering the world from their cubicles...

    They simply wanted to download their music and listen to it wherever/whenever they wanted.

    Folks keep using this word 'tech'. The average consumer, the yoga moms, the artists, the soccer dads, chefs, the folks who work for Non-profits, the volunteers.

    All the folks who, according to RIM commercials, don't actually DO anything, don't care if an app is running in the background while they use what's actually on the screen.

    I don't know why that's so hard to grasp.

    The World's current economic state-of-affairs plays a part in this as well. Consumer spending is down. Across the board. Folks are spending less and the competition is tough as nails.

    As for Apple and Google. Apple HAS other products and are about to launch a TV set. Google's launched Google TV to compete with Cable TV providers.

    If Apple were smart, they'd acquire Netflix or offer a proprietary subscription service under their iTunes banner. Because that's where the market is going.

    RIM has only one physical product, but they could license BBM and its Network services.

    But, if they don't, I just don't see how 1 unproven smart phone can right the ship on it's own.
    06-25-12 10:22 PM
  11. hasib123's Avatar
    I have had a blackberry because of the ability to switch out batteries and keyboard....unfortunately i am a share holder of rimm due to the cheap valuation but this puts rimm in perspective:

    A look at BlackBerry maker Research in Motion
    A look at BlackBerry and its maker in recent months as it faces heavy competition
    Associated PressBy The Associated Press | Associated Press 5 hours ago



    Companies:

    Siemens AG
    Research In Motion Limited
    Morgan Stanley

    RELATED QUOTES
    Symbol Price Change
    SI 80.27 -2.26
    RIMM 9.10 -0.75
    MS 13.48 -0.66
    RIM.TO 9.36 -0.76
    SIE.F 64.15 -1.65
    Related Content

    <p> Tim Neil, Research In Motion Ltd.'s Canadian Operating Director of Operations, Platforms and Tools, speaks about the Blackberry 10 architecture during the RIM Blackberry 10 Jam World Tour in Toronto on Thursday June 21, 2012. The first BlackBerry device running RIM's new operating software will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. RIM is expected to start selling BlackBerry 10 touch-screen devices this year. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Aaron Vincent Elkaim)View Photo

    Tim Neil, Research In Motion Ltd.'s Canadian Operating Director of Operations, Platforms and Tools, speaks about the Blackberry 10 architecture during the RIM Blackberry 10 Jam World Tour in Toronto on Thursday June 21, 2012. The first BlackBerry device running RIM's new operating software will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. RIM is expected to start selling BlackBerry 10 touch-screen devices this year. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Aaron Vincent Elkaim)

    Shares of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. dove to a nine-year low Monday. It comes as Morgan Stanley downgraded the stock, saying RIM's challenges are piling up.

    Here's a look at recent developments as the company struggles to regain market share lost to the iPhone and Android devices:

    Sept. 15, 2011: RIM reports a sharp drop in net income and revenue in the fiscal second quarter and says it has sold far fewer PlayBook tablet computers than it expected.

    Oct. 10: Email and Internet services are disrupted for three days, primarily outside North America. RIM says a crucial link in its infrastructure had failed, and a backup didn't work either. By the third day, other users, including those in the U.S. and Canada, were affected by a backlog of traffic.

    Oct. 25: RIM says it is delaying the launch of an upgraded operating system for the PlayBook until February, saying it isn't up to its standards yet. The company also says the new version initially won't have the popular messaging service BlackBerry Messenger. It's the third delay announced since the features were promised in April.

    Dec. 2: RIM says it is writing off much of its inventory of PlayBook tablets after it had to sell them at a deep discount. The model originally priced at $500 now costs $200. The company says it's taking a pre-tax charge of $485 million in the just-ended quarter. RIM also says it will sell fewer BlackBerrys in the holiday quarter than in the one that just ended. It also says it won't meet full-year earnings guidance of $5.25 to $6 per share, the third cut in a row.

    Dec. 6: RIM says "BlackBerry 10" will be the new name for its next-generation system after the company loses a trademark ruling on its previous name, BBX.

    Dec. 15: RIM says new phones deemed critical to the company's future won't be out until late 2012. The company says the BlackBerry 10 phones will need a highly integrated chipset that won't be available until mid-2012, so the company can now expect the new phones to ship late in the year. The company also says BlackBerry sales will fall sharply in the holiday quarter compared with the three months that ended Nov. 26. RIM says it would only ship between 11 million and 12 million BlackBerrys in the fourth quarter, down from 14.1 million in the third quarter.

    Jan. 22, 2012: RIM founder Mike Lazaridis and long-time executive Jim Balsillie announce they will step down as co-CEOs. Thorsten Heins, a chief operating officer who joined RIM four years ago from Siemens AG, was named as their replacement. Lazaridis and Balsillie remain on the board.

    Feb. 21: RIM finally releases an upgraded operating system for its PlayBook. The free upgrade allows for built-in email, calendar and contacts on the tablet features promised within 60 days after the PlayBook's launch last April. The PlayBook had received negative reviews because it launched without an email program and the popular messaging service BlackBerry Messenger. The new version still doesn't include the messaging service.

    March 29: RIM says Balsillie has resigned from its board, and two top executives are leaving. RIM also writes down the value of its product inventory again as the company reports a loss of $125 million, its first quarterly loss since fiscal 2005. Heins doesn't rule out a sale, but he says it is not the main direction of the strategic review he's overseeing.

    April 26: Newest board member of RIM says a turnaround could take three to five years. Prem Watsa, RIM's third-largest investor, says he sees his investment in the company as a long-term one, adding that RIM's fortunes won't be reversed soon.

    May 1: RIM unveils a newly designed smartphone prototype powered by its upcoming BlackBerry 10 system. The prototype BlackBerry has a touchscreen, but no physical keyboard like most BlackBerry models. No update was given on the new system's launch date.

    May 2: Company stresses that while the prototype has no physical keyboard, RIM will continue to make some models with one.

    May 8: RIM announces hiring of two senior executives from struggling tech companies. Frank Boulben, the new chief marketing officer, comes from LightSquared. Kristian Tear, the new chief operating officer, is from Sony Mobile Communications.

    May 29: RIM says it will have an operating loss in the current quarter and significant layoffs this year. The company says it has hired J.P. Morgan and RBC Capital Markets to help evaluate various strategies, including opportunities to partner with other companies and license software.

    June 20: RIM says it has started laying off employees as part of a restructuring plan aimed at saving about $1 billion this year.

    June 21: Company says the first BlackBerry device running BlackBerry 10 will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. Ones with hard keyboards will eventually be made, but the company declines to say when.

    Monday: Stock hits lowest level since 2003. Morgan Stanley's Ehud Gelblum says the company is facing a "triple whammy" in the current quarter. Gelblum says RIM's phones are aging, growth in the global smartphone market is slowing, and shipments are likely to decline ahead of the launch of BlackBerry 10 phones.
    06-25-12 10:29 PM
  12. h20work's Avatar
    I have had a blackberry because of the ability to switch out batteries and keyboard....unfortunately i am a share holder of rimm due to the cheap valuation but this puts rimm in perspective:

    A look at BlackBerry maker Research in Motion
    A look at BlackBerry and its maker in recent months as it faces heavy competition
    Associated PressBy The Associated Press | Associated Press 5 hours ago



    Companies:

    Siemens AG
    Research In Motion Limited
    Morgan Stanley

    RELATED QUOTES
    Symbol Price Change
    SI 80.27 -2.26
    RIMM 9.10 -0.75
    MS 13.48 -0.66
    RIM.TO 9.36 -0.76
    SIE.F 64.15 -1.65
    Related Content

    <p> Tim Neil, Research In Motion Ltd.'s Canadian Operating Director of Operations, Platforms and Tools, speaks about the Blackberry 10 architecture during the RIM Blackberry 10 Jam World Tour in Toronto on Thursday June 21, 2012. The first BlackBerry device running RIM's new operating software will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. RIM is expected to start selling BlackBerry 10 touch-screen devices this year. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Aaron Vincent Elkaim)View Photo

    Tim Neil, Research In Motion Ltd.'s Canadian Operating Director of Operations, Platforms and Tools, speaks about the Blackberry 10 architecture during the RIM Blackberry 10 Jam World Tour in Toronto on Thursday June 21, 2012. The first BlackBerry device running RIM's new operating software will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. RIM is expected to start selling BlackBerry 10 touch-screen devices this year. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Aaron Vincent Elkaim)

    Shares of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. dove to a nine-year low Monday. It comes as Morgan Stanley downgraded the stock, saying RIM's challenges are piling up.

    Here's a look at recent developments as the company struggles to regain market share lost to the iPhone and Android devices:

    Sept. 15, 2011: RIM reports a sharp drop in net income and revenue in the fiscal second quarter and says it has sold far fewer PlayBook tablet computers than it expected.

    Oct. 10: Email and Internet services are disrupted for three days, primarily outside North America. RIM says a crucial link in its infrastructure had failed, and a backup didn't work either. By the third day, other users, including those in the U.S. and Canada, were affected by a backlog of traffic.

    Oct. 25: RIM says it is delaying the launch of an upgraded operating system for the PlayBook until February, saying it isn't up to its standards yet. The company also says the new version initially won't have the popular messaging service BlackBerry Messenger. It's the third delay announced since the features were promised in April.

    Dec. 2: RIM says it is writing off much of its inventory of PlayBook tablets after it had to sell them at a deep discount. The model originally priced at $500 now costs $200. The company says it's taking a pre-tax charge of $485 million in the just-ended quarter. RIM also says it will sell fewer BlackBerrys in the holiday quarter than in the one that just ended. It also says it won't meet full-year earnings guidance of $5.25 to $6 per share, the third cut in a row.

    Dec. 6: RIM says "BlackBerry 10" will be the new name for its next-generation system after the company loses a trademark ruling on its previous name, BBX.

    Dec. 15: RIM says new phones deemed critical to the company's future won't be out until late 2012. The company says the BlackBerry 10 phones will need a highly integrated chipset that won't be available until mid-2012, so the company can now expect the new phones to ship late in the year. The company also says BlackBerry sales will fall sharply in the holiday quarter compared with the three months that ended Nov. 26. RIM says it would only ship between 11 million and 12 million BlackBerrys in the fourth quarter, down from 14.1 million in the third quarter.

    Jan. 22, 2012: RIM founder Mike Lazaridis and long-time executive Jim Balsillie announce they will step down as co-CEOs. Thorsten Heins, a chief operating officer who joined RIM four years ago from Siemens AG, was named as their replacement. Lazaridis and Balsillie remain on the board.

    Feb. 21: RIM finally releases an upgraded operating system for its PlayBook. The free upgrade allows for built-in email, calendar and contacts on the tablet features promised within 60 days after the PlayBook's launch last April. The PlayBook had received negative reviews because it launched without an email program and the popular messaging service BlackBerry Messenger. The new version still doesn't include the messaging service.

    March 29: RIM says Balsillie has resigned from its board, and two top executives are leaving. RIM also writes down the value of its product inventory again as the company reports a loss of $125 million, its first quarterly loss since fiscal 2005. Heins doesn't rule out a sale, but he says it is not the main direction of the strategic review he's overseeing.

    April 26: Newest board member of RIM says a turnaround could take three to five years. Prem Watsa, RIM's third-largest investor, says he sees his investment in the company as a long-term one, adding that RIM's fortunes won't be reversed soon.

    May 1: RIM unveils a newly designed smartphone prototype powered by its upcoming BlackBerry 10 system. The prototype BlackBerry has a touchscreen, but no physical keyboard like most BlackBerry models. No update was given on the new system's launch date.

    May 2: Company stresses that while the prototype has no physical keyboard, RIM will continue to make some models with one.

    May 8: RIM announces hiring of two senior executives from struggling tech companies. Frank Boulben, the new chief marketing officer, comes from LightSquared. Kristian Tear, the new chief operating officer, is from Sony Mobile Communications.

    May 29: RIM says it will have an operating loss in the current quarter and significant layoffs this year. The company says it has hired J.P. Morgan and RBC Capital Markets to help evaluate various strategies, including opportunities to partner with other companies and license software.

    June 20: RIM says it has started laying off employees as part of a restructuring plan aimed at saving about $1 billion this year.

    June 21: Company says the first BlackBerry device running BlackBerry 10 will not have a physical keyboard, only a touch-screen one. Ones with hard keyboards will eventually be made, but the company declines to say when.

    Monday: Stock hits lowest level since 2003. Morgan Stanley's Ehud Gelblum says the company is facing a "triple whammy" in the current quarter. Gelblum says RIM's phones are aging, growth in the global smartphone market is slowing, and shipments are likely to decline ahead of the launch of BlackBerry 10 phones.
    Sad..... But true.
    06-25-12 10:45 PM
  13. Caymancroc's Avatar
    I guess the only thing that surprises me is the fact that people are surprised.
    06-26-12 05:26 AM
  14. jegs2's Avatar
    Oct. 10: Email and Internet services are disrupted for three days, primarily outside North America. RIM says a crucial link in its infrastructure had failed, and a backup didn't work either. By the third day, other users, including those in the U.S. and Canada, were affected by a backlog of traffic.
    Think this was probably one of the most damaging things - it ate right into the strength of all things RIM, and remember it getting considerable press coverage.
    06-26-12 08:08 AM
  15. tchocky77's Avatar
    I understand. But you can't just say 'iPod' without ignoring the consumer culture that took the iPod and made it what it was.

    That consumer culture does not exist any longer. It's a very different ball game.

    And, in my very humble opinion and having never owned an iPod, it was MicroSoft that saved Apple. Not the iPod.
    No. It was definitely the ipod. Apple was nearly broke AGAIN in '97 when Jobs came back. That was years after the MSFT deal.
    06-26-12 10:22 AM
  16. dandbj13's Avatar
    Just fell below $9. I didn't think I would see that so soon. Frankly, I didn't think I would see this figure before RIM was officially on the market. At what point do shareholders rebel?
    06-26-12 10:26 AM
  17. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Just fell below $9. I didn't think I would see that so soon. Frankly, I didn't think I would see this figure before RIM was officially on the market. At what point do shareholders rebel?
    $7.70ps - $8.00ps by the Fourth of July.
    06-26-12 10:47 AM
  18. joski's Avatar
    What a dumb thread of pontificating nerdinomics. Spec-u-fackin'-lation!
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-26-12 10:50 AM
  19. dandbj13's Avatar
    What a dumb thread of pontificating nerdinomics. Spec-u-fackin'-lation!
    I don't know what any of that means. But I'm going to find a way to use "nerdinomics" in a sentence before the week is over.
    louzer, kevinnugent and howarmat like this.
    06-26-12 11:20 AM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    I don't know what any of that means. But I'm going to find a way to use "nerdinomics" in a sentence before the week is over.
    I love the word, too! What a great way to summarize the value assessments we've seen in this thread.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-26-12 11:22 AM
  21. anon1727506's Avatar
    Just fell below $9. I didn't think I would see that so soon. Frankly, I didn't think I would see this figure before RIM was officially on the market. At what point do shareholders rebel?
    What can they do at this point??

    Complaints or demands or going to do little at this point....
    06-26-12 12:33 PM
  22. the_sleuth's Avatar
    Another Pros talking to Joes video from CNBC:

    RIM on the Edge - CNBC

    Summary: RIM will start burning cash in the coming quarters and stock price could go as low as $5 to $6.
    06-26-12 06:44 PM
  23. JTATL's Avatar
    No. It was definitely the ipod. Apple was nearly broke AGAIN in '97 when Jobs came back. That was years after the MSFT deal.
    Microsoft to invest $150 million in Apple - CNET News

    The Microsoft deal was in 1997 cash infusion of 150 million

    At the time of the msft investment and promise of software access apple had 1.2 billon in cash and that was 15 years ago
    Last edited by JTATL; 06-26-12 at 08:10 PM.
    06-26-12 08:02 PM
  24. JTATL's Avatar
    What can they do at this point??

    Complaints or demands or going to do little at this point....
    It will be soon RIM may drop significantly based on earnings.

    RIM needs a white knight but it doesnt seem to be forth coming without a sale of at least part of the company. Nothing less than tangible assets will secure such investment from an outside firm.
    Last edited by JTATL; 06-26-12 at 08:07 PM.
    06-26-12 08:04 PM
  25. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I'm still thinking MSFT.
    06-26-12 08:12 PM
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