12-05-13 07:17 PM
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  1. morlock_man's Avatar
    It's not perfect but I'd be careful with terms like "core functionality" if I were you.
    What on earth is that?
    Wifi bridge between a BB10 phone and tablet, that kind of core functionality.

    The QNX microkernel architecture has certain distributed computing benefits and with the 2.1 update set to include wifi bridge, thats what they seem to be aiming towards.

    Compared to what it can become, the Playbook as it currently stands is a shadow of its future self.
    05-17-12 07:02 PM
  2. addicted44's Avatar
    You know... People on here keep saying over, and over again "RIM is dead!" But... That's not what we, in the emerging markets, feel, every single time I go out I see A LOT of BlackBerry's and not just cheap curves, like I have, I have seen EVERY SINGLE MODEL out there, I have even seen a STORM 2 lol
    The problem is that RIM's succes in emerging markets is just not reflecting in the financials. I know people on this board like to believe that investors disregard RIM's success in Indonesia and South Africa because they are xenophobic Americans, but the reality is that they disregard it because these massive successes (and BBs are massively successful in several EMs) have done nothing to stem the declines in other parts of the world. And they are not outweighing the financial impact of these declines either.

    This is evident directly from RIM's financials. It isn't something the media has cooked up either.
    05-17-12 07:29 PM
  3. jechow's Avatar
    Just remember price is not the same as FMV. Price is what you pay while FMV is what it is worth. IMHO the current stock price is less than RIM's FMV.

    There will be many opportuinities to purchase RIM below is FMV. The safest time to step in would be after the release of the first BB10 phone. Once that phone is release and reviewed can we know with greater certainty if RIM can make a comeback.
    05-17-12 07:43 PM
  4. morlock_man's Avatar
    Just remember price is not the same as FMV. Price is what you pay while FMV is what it is worth. IMHO the current stock price is less than RIM's FMV.

    There will be many opportuinities to purchase RIM below is FMV. The safest time to step in would be after the release of the first BB10 phone. Once that phone is release and reviewed can we know with greater certainty if RIM can make a comeback.
    I'd be iffy about waiting that long.

    They're going to roll out the goodies slowly up until release to build up some momentum. They're going to start unlocking some of the hidden apps on the BB10 dev alpha devices in the near future and drop PBOS 2.1 as well. The beta testing of the wifi bridge will probably the last major component that'll need to be solidified.

    The stock is undervalued now, but that won't last long. I wouldn't wait any longer than the public release (not the beta) of 2.1 and the launch of the 4G Playbook. When those drop they'll most likely start their marketing blitz in a runup to BB10's release.
    05-17-12 08:02 PM
  5. cleacy's Avatar
    Just remember price is not the same as FMV. Price is what you pay while FMV is what it is worth. IMHO the current stock price is less than RIM's FMV.

    There will be many opportuinities to purchase RIM below is FMV. The safest time to step in would be after the release of the first BB10 phone. Once that phone is release and reviewed can we know with greater certainty if RIM can make a comeback.
    Price is FMV. What you pay for something (price) is the fair market value. Over time, you'll likely find that you paid to much or to little, but you agreed to pay it... Which makes it by definition the fair market value *at that time*.

    When it comes to FMV, i've included a quote below I really like from the movie "Margin Call". It isn't intended to express any opinion in regards to RIM's current price.

    Sam Rogers: And you're selling something that you *know* has no value.
    John Tuld: We are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price.
    Last edited by cleacy; 05-17-12 at 08:25 PM. Reason: include quote
    05-17-12 08:21 PM
  6. tchocky77's Avatar
    If the Playbook sales don't increase when BB10 drops, I'll eat my t-shirt.
    This will be my new signature.
    05-17-12 10:04 PM
  7. OMGitworks's Avatar
    When BB10 is completed, the Playbook will finally be a finished product. In the meantime, it's still missing core functionality.

    If the Playbook sales don't increase when BB10 drops, I'll eat my t-shirt.
    If I was you, I'd be heading to the nearest red light district to one of those "specialty" shops to look for some edible underwear.
    05-18-12 07:44 AM
  8. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Just remember price is not the same as FMV. Price is what you pay while FMV is what it is worth. IMHO the current stock price is less than RIM's FMV.

    There will be many opportuinities to purchase RIM below is FMV. The safest time to step in would be after the release of the first BB10 phone. Once that phone is release and reviewed can we know with greater certainty if RIM can make a comeback.
    Sorry to say you are quite wrong. FMV is what a willing buyer would buy and willing seller would sell. I can't think of a more efficient market to determine FMV than the stock market. You can argue it is worth more, hope that it is or even do analysis to "prove" that it, but what is sells for on the stock market is indeed, absolutely, its FMV.

    Don't take my word for it: "The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts." If that ain't the stock market I don't know what is.
    05-18-12 07:48 AM
  9. morlock_man's Avatar
    If I was you, I'd be heading to the nearest red light district to one of those "specialty" shops to look for some edible underwear.
    If Crackberry sends me a t-shirt, I'll eat that and post the video online.

    Has to be cotton though... won't eat a polyester shirt.
    05-18-12 07:52 AM
  10. OMGitworks's Avatar
    If Crackberry sends me a t-shirt, I'll eat that and post the video online.

    Has to be cotton though... won't eat a polyester shirt.
    Fair enough!!!
    05-18-12 08:14 AM
  11. grunt0300's Avatar
    Fair enough!!!
    I sure hope that you guys stay hungry. Pretty soon you're about to have a big meal!LOL.
    05-18-12 08:43 AM
  12. snowthedirtbub's Avatar
    When BB10 is completed, the Playbook will finally be a finished product. In the meantime, it's still missing core functionality.

    If the Playbook sales don't increase when BB10 drops, I'll eat my t-shirt.
    Why would sales of a almost 2 year old tablet by the time its released increase; especially since no retail stores are no longer carrying it and the only place is to buy is online. I doubt the majority of consumers even know the tablet is an "unfinished product" as you say.
    05-18-12 11:28 AM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    The problem is that RIM's succes in emerging markets is just not reflecting in the financials.
    Bingo.

    As Bill Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are." It doesn't really matter how we think RIM is doing in country X or country Y. What matters is the bottom line. The current devices (including Playbook) aren't growing the bottom line, or even holding it steady.

    Hopefully BB10 will grow that bottom line, but that won't magically happen in the first quarter of its release.
    05-18-12 12:01 PM
  14. morlock_man's Avatar
    The growth in the tablet market will come from the interoperability benefits that come from owning both a QNX tablet and phone.

    BB10 should help the initial phone sales, but the real kicker will come from being paired via wifi bridge with a playbook.
    05-18-12 12:09 PM
  15. blackhawksfan75's Avatar
    Why would sales of a almost 2 year old tablet by the time its released increase; especially since no retail stores are no longer carrying it and the only place is to buy is online. I doubt the majority of consumers even know the tablet is an "unfinished product" as you say.
    I beg to differ. I am not sure where you reside but here in Red Deer both Best Buy and Walmart has numerous Playbooks in stock. Walmart had 2 64gb in stock last time I was there.
    05-18-12 12:10 PM
  16. abwan11's Avatar
    To not have bbm/email on the playbook at release (without bridge) was a huge mistake.The playbook was released as beta test device and the tech community read right through it and called it half baked. It revealed how far behind the curve rim was. I know that when playbook was released it was a good time in the tablet space for rim to gain momentum. I bought pb for the kids believing that they would be able to bbm in a future update this day has yet to materialize.When the first iphone was launched I believe consumers first saw the device as having some added value over other devices. Imaging iphone had launched without the ipod built in.
    Last edited by abwan11; 05-19-12 at 12:03 PM.
    05-19-12 12:00 PM
  17. morlock_man's Avatar
    To not have bbm/email on the playbook at release (without bridge) was a huge mistake.The playbook was released as beta test device and the tech community read right through it and called it half baked. It revealed how far behind the curve rim was. I know that when playbook was released it was a good time in the tablet space for rim to gain momentum. I bought pb for the kids believing that they would be able to bbm in a future update this day has yet to materialize.hen the first iphone was launched I believe consumers first saw the device as having some added value over other devices. Imaging iphone had launched without the ipod built in.
    The iPod already existed when the iPhone was launched. So did a lot of the iSoftware, built for a modified version of the same kernel.

    When the Playbook launched, there was no foundation of pre-existing software written for the system to fall back on. They've been working from the ground up on a new software platform, not just adding features to an existing product line.

    None of the PIM apps existed at launch, nor are they really finished yet either. The Playbook 2.1 upgrade that allows portrait mode will finalize their form, but BB10 integrates them directly into the OS and the UI to minimize their memory footprint.

    BBM without a cellular connection didn't exist when the PlayBook launched. It still doesn't exist... yet.
    05-19-12 12:09 PM
  18. abwan11's Avatar
    Thanks for the insight. I have a better understanding of why bbm is not there but as a average consumer I believe that bbm could have been enough of an incentive to differentiate the playbook. Rim should have had that first and then built around it. Anyway I don't want to bring up the past but I feel that all the pieces were there to be successful and that sucks for enthusiasts and shareholders.

    Another sticking point for me was the way rim has dealt with their shareholders interests. In september (as an example when the stock had run up to 32 the day of earnings and then subsequently dropped) there was interest from Amazon and Microsoft to aquire rim at this time. Why didn't rim or someone else leak the story then to save themselves and their shareholders from the slide the stock took. Instead the story is leaked in December when rim shares are at 12. It makes me suspicious to say the least that something is wrong. Unless they have been negotiating a merger/acquisition since then that bars them or anyone else from discussing the matter I can't see any reasoning that would explain it.
    Last edited by abwan11; 05-19-12 at 01:32 PM.
    05-19-12 01:17 PM
  19. sinsin07's Avatar
    I beg to differ. I am not sure where you reside but here in Red Deer both Best Buy and Walmart has numerous Playbooks in stock. Walmart had 2 64gb in stock last time I was there.
    Yes. Red Deer is the center of the urban universe and a good barometer as to what to expect. Not. Population 91 thousand and change. That number equals two co-op developments in NYC, CO-OP City and Starrett City.

    Most likely explanation as to why you were able to see product is no one can find their way to Red Deer.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 05-19-12 at 02:14 PM.
    05-19-12 02:10 PM
  20. morlock_man's Avatar
    Yes. Red Deer is the center of the urban universe and a good barometer as to what to expect. Not. Population 91 thousand and change. That number equals two co-op developments in NYC, CO-OP City and Starrett City.

    Most likely explanation as to why you were able to see product is no one can find their way to Red Deer.
    They're here in Corner Brook, Newfoundland at Staples, Walmart and the Source.

    Not the 'center of the urban universe', but I expect there's more readily available supply chain in Canada than the US anyways.
    05-19-12 02:22 PM
  21. addicted44's Avatar
    The iPod already existed when the iPhone was launched. So did a lot of the iSoftware, built for a modified version of the same kernel.
    This is wrong. The iPod OS was based on Pixo, and has almost nothing in common with iOS. IOS was a stripped down version of Mac OS.
    05-20-12 12:38 AM
  22. morlock_man's Avatar
    This is wrong. The iPod OS was based on Pixo, and has almost nothing in common with iOS. IOS was a stripped down version of Mac OS.
    We're talking about the iPod touch, not the originals.
    05-20-12 07:16 AM
  23. kb5zht's Avatar
    When BB10 is completed, the Playbook will finally be a finished product. In the meantime, it's still missing core functionality.

    If the Playbook sales don't increase when BB10 drops, I'll eat my t-shirt.
    The playbook on launch was suppose to be a finished product!
    Seems to me RIM continues to say "just wait a little longer... We will eventually get it right." That being said, Thorsten seems to represent real change for the better and im seeing more sunshine breakthrough the storm clouds for RIM. We will see.
    05-20-12 12:29 PM
  24. addicted44's Avatar
    We're talking about the iPod touch, not the originals.
    The iPod already existed when the iPhone was launched. So did a lot of the iSoftware, built for a modified version of the same kernel.
    The iPod Touch came after the iPhone. That statement of yours is still wrong. Also, the iPod Touch and the iPhone run the same OS, so I am not sure why one's kernel will be a modified version of the other.
    05-20-12 01:50 PM
  25. morlock_man's Avatar
    The iPod Touch came after the iPhone. That statement of yours is still wrong. Also, the iPod Touch and the iPhone run the same OS, so I am not sure why one's kernel will be a modified version of the other.
    You are correct regarding the order they were released.

    As for kernel modifications between systems, one has to include the cellular stack, the other does not.

    And they're both still stripped down versions of the full OS X kernel, for which a lot of the iSoftware I mentioned already existed.
    05-20-12 02:05 PM
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