09-27-13 08:23 AM
129 ... 3456
tools
  1. grover5's Avatar
    The "list" you mention would include every U.S. corporation with non-U.S. operations. They are ALL looking to reduce their tax liability, no matter how low it already is.
    Yes it might. Does that upset you?
    02-12-12 12:04 PM
  2. xandermac's Avatar
    Yes it might. Does that upset you?
    What would you suggest we do to attract manufacturing back to the USA? Obviously they can't be ordered back, so what is the solution? I really am interested, I'd like to hear some valid ideas.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    02-12-12 12:12 PM
  3. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    It's a global market, so all manufacturers have to keep production costs down or fail. The overwhelming percentage of consumers don't purchase based on a companies moral standing, it's price/features/value. There's a few issues we seem to be discussing here. First on topic....

    While from a NA/EU perspective, conditions may be horrid for employees in other parts of the world. While I don't condone employee abuse, we cannot truly judge what is/isn't so easily. Even some of the worst examples I'll bet have assisted in uplifting overall living conditions for people there.

    When it comes to bringing manufacturing back to NA, I'll focus on one clear point. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect taxes and pass them on to the government. If a nation chooses to tax companies high, they either have to forgo profits to keep pricing in line, look for cheaper labor (obviously productivity is at play here), or find ways to defer paying said taxes. From my perspective, the quickest way to resolve the issue, is to eliminate the taxing of corporations, and change the model to a consumer driven collection, such as the Fair Tax plan.

    Those who truly care about the Chinese worker, are not helping them by shutting down manufacturing operations there, or demanding conditions which would cause the plants to close. They are steadfast moving toward a free and open society. That change will do more for the average Chinese worker, than any boycott would ever do.

    Once in a while, we need to get off our high horse, and jump on a Shetland pony.
    avt123, xandermac, kbz1960 and 1 others like this.
    02-12-12 12:35 PM
  4. xandermac's Avatar
    It's a global market, so all manufacturers have to keep production costs down or fail. The overwhelming percentage of consumers don't purchase based on a companies moral standing, it's price/features/value. There's a few issues we seem to be discussing here. First on topic....

    While from a NA/EU perspective, conditions may be horrid for employees in other parts of the world. While I don't condone employee abuse, we cannot truly judge what is/isn't so easily. Even some of the worst examples I'll bet have assisted in uplifting overall living conditions for people there.

    When it comes to bringing manufacturing back to NA, I'll focus on one clear point. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect taxes and pass them on to the government. If a nation chooses to tax companies high, they either have to forgo profits to keep pricing in line, look for cheaper labor (obviously productivity is at play here), or find ways to defer paying said taxes. From my perspective, the quickest way to resolve the issue, is to eliminate the taxing of corporations, and change the model to a consumer driven collection, such as the Fair Tax plan.

    Those who truly care about the Chinese worker, are not helping them by shutting down manufacturing operations there, or demanding conditions which would cause the plants to close. They are steadfast moving toward a free and open society. That change will do more for the average Chinese worker, than any boycott would ever do.

    Once in a while, we need to get off our high horse, and jump on a Shetland pony.
    You just made it onto my most respected list for this post. Thank you for some common sense. Boortz would be proud.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-12-12 12:42 PM
  5. gwanstarr's Avatar
    Apple made in excess of 25 BILLION in 2011. I think there is plenty of room to share just a little of these MASSIVE profits and improve the conditions and lives of these workers. This has nothing to do with keeping production costs down or staying competitive it only has to do with maximizing profits and greed. Has nothing to do with anyone being on their high horse and everything to do with recognizing what's right and what's wrong and voicing it.

    It's a global market, so all manufacturers have to keep production costs down or fail. The overwhelming percentage of consumers don't purchase based on a companies moral standing, it's price/features/value. There's a few issues we seem to be discussing here. First on topic....

    While from a NA/EU perspective, conditions may be horrid for employees in other parts of the world. While I don't condone employee abuse, we cannot truly judge what is/isn't so easily. Even some of the worst examples I'll bet have assisted in uplifting overall living conditions for people there.

    When it comes to bringing manufacturing back to NA, I'll focus on one clear point. Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect taxes and pass them on to the government. If a nation chooses to tax companies high, they either have to forgo profits to keep pricing in line, look for cheaper labor (obviously productivity is at play here), or find ways to defer paying said taxes. From my perspective, the quickest way to resolve the issue, is to eliminate the taxing of corporations, and change the model to a consumer driven collection, such as the Fair Tax plan.

    Those who truly care about the Chinese worker, are not helping them by shutting down manufacturing operations there, or demanding conditions which would cause the plants to close. They are steadfast moving toward a free and open society. That change will do more for the average Chinese worker, than any boycott would ever do.

    Once in a while, we need to get off our high horse, and jump on a Shetland pony.
    Last edited by gwanstarr; 02-12-12 at 05:38 PM.
    02-12-12 05:35 PM
  6. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Apple made in excess of 25 BILLION in 2011. I think there is plenty of room to share just a little of these MASSIVE profits and improve the conditions and lives of these workers. This has nothing to do with keeping production costs down or staying competitive it only has to do with maximizing profits and greed. Has nothing to do with anyone being on their high horse and everything to do with recognizing what's right and what's wrong and voicing it.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand it, they aren't their employees. They also had tremendous gross sales last year. I don't think their gross profit was out of line, for the business they're in.
    02-12-12 05:58 PM
  7. grover5's Avatar
    What would you suggest we do to attract manufacturing back to the USA? Obviously they can't be ordered back, so what is the solution? I really am interested, I'd like to hear some valid ideas.


    Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk
    I think its false to suggest poor worker conditions is natural in a growing economy. I think its false to suggest that since the workers have it better financially than what they would have had that it makes it ok to abuse them and create a work environment where suicide is a viable aternative. I don't think we are really talking about companies who cannot turn a profit. I think we are discussing how much profit and what members of the company get to receive their share of the profit.

    All that being said, I'm a progressive and you're conservative. I don't expect our solutions to be the same. That's why you loved wolfs resposne and I smirked when I saw the term "fair" tax. We view the problems and solutions differently. Sometimes we just have to recognize that and agree to disagree.
    02-12-12 06:14 PM
  8. sam_b77's Avatar
    Seriously no one can blame Apple here. This has more to do with US policies and economic conditions. The US wants to pay its work force more for a job which other countries will do for far less. Fact is you can't have minimum wage for a job at $40000.00 which other countries will do for $1000.00. This is the risk of globalisation. The businesses will go for maximum profits as they should. If you don't like it then initiate protectionism but be warned that the whole world will follow suit and make it difficult for Americans to sell their products to them.
    Fact is that Americans cannot pay themselves more than than what they deserve and they need to initiate labor reforms and streaamline their social security if they want to compete with the low cost emerging markets. Till then your jobs will go overseas.
    I know of a large number of US companies which have had to file for Chapter 11 protection simply because they could not afford to pay their retired employees. The companies were operationally profitable. This is an absurd situation. You guys have high life expectancy and less working tenures. Ask yourselves what you need to do and stop complaining about chinese workers who are working hard to take their families out of poverty. Foxconn might be a hard taskmaster but Apple ensures it success and with that provides a generation of no hope chinese workers a way out. They choose to work at Foxconn despite the abysmal conditions. That should show you the desperation in their lives.

    Take away that and you are damning them to a life of poverty and hunger. Put your own house in order first and stop paying yourselves more than what the world allows you to.
    Last edited by sam_b77; 02-12-12 at 06:21 PM.
    BigBadWulf and xandermac like this.
    02-12-12 06:17 PM
  9. palmless's Avatar
    I think its false to suggest poor worker conditions is natural in a growing economy. I think its false to suggest that since the workers have it better financially than what they would have had that it makes it ok to abuse them and create a work environment where suicide is a viable aternative. I don't think we are really talking about companies who cannot turn a profit. I think we are discussing how much profit and what members of the company get to receive their share of the profit.

    All that being said, I'm a progressive and you're conservative. I don't expect our solutions to be the same. That's why you loved wolfs resposne and I smirked when I saw the term "fair" tax. We view the problems and solutions differently. Sometimes we just have to recognize that and agree to disagree.
    Continue to bang the suicide drum, but do it knowing that you are knowingly misleading the reader.

    Foxconn has a lower suicide rate than their region and LOWER THAN MOST OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Foxconn employs roughly as many workers as there are US school teachers (8M v 7.2M). 63 US school teachers committed suicide in 2009, about FOUR TIMES the rate as Foxconn workers. Is it due to horrendous working conditions?

    Once someone knows this, what possible motive could they have for continuing to whine about Foxconn suicides? I can't come up with one, other than attempting to mislead.

    Paying better than the alternative employers in the regions is not abuse. The Foxconn workers would despise your "help", since it would send them back to the beet fields.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-12-12 07:02 PM
  10. grover5's Avatar
    Continue to bang the suicide drum, but do it knowing that you are knowingly misleading the reader.

    Foxconn has a lower suicide rate than their region and LOWER THAN MOST OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Foxconn employs roughly as many workers as there are US school teachers (8M v 7.2M). 63 US school teachers committed suicide in 2009, about FOUR TIMES the rate as Foxconn workers. Is it due to horrendous working conditions?

    Once someone knows this, what possible motive could they have for continuing to whine about Foxconn suicides? I can't come up with one, other than attempting to mislead.

    Paying better than the alternative employers in the regions is not abuse. The Foxconn workers would despise your "help", since it would send them back to the beet fields.
    US schools aren't building nets around their buildings to catch jumpers. They aren't requiring their employees to sign pledges that they won't attempt suicide. Statistics are.fun to play with. I think we all recognize that.

    Here's another thing that might help us find a way to the end of our discussion on this matter...I don't view the world the way you do. You'll have to learn to live with that. I disagree with you and that is where I'm leaving this.
    02-12-12 07:14 PM
  11. palmless's Avatar
    US schools aren't building nets around their buildings to catch jumpers. They aren't requiring their employees to sign pledges that they won't attempt suicide. Statistics are.fun to play with. I think we all recognize that.

    Here's another thing that might help us find a way to the end of our discussion on this matter...I don't view the world the way you do. You'll have to learn to live with that. I disagree with you and that is where I'm leaving this.
    Is that actually a response? School teachers commit suicide at four times the rate of Foxconn workers, but because there are tens of thousands of schools, it isn't practical to build nets?

    I LOVE IT!!!

    I do realize some do not view the world objectively, as you mention. I live in a college town, so "Symbolism over Substance" as a world view is something I see daily. Foxconn has 1/4th the suicide rate of US school teachers, and an objective person sees that as "good". But Foxconn builds iPads and Apple is among the many they help, so a subjective view is that Foxconn is "bad".

    What a way to live.
    Last edited by Palmless; 02-12-12 at 07:42 PM.
    02-12-12 07:23 PM
  12. grover5's Avatar
    Is that actually a response? School teachers commit suicide at four times the rate of Foxconn workers, but because there are tens of thousands of schools, it isn't practical to build nets?

    That's a response?

    I do realize some do not view the world objectively, as you mention. Foxconn has 1/4th the suicide rate, and objective person sees that as "good". But Foxconn builds iPads, so a subjective view is that Foxconn is "bad". What a way to live.
    You just seem desperate about this. You can spin it as much as you want. It won't change reality.
    02-12-12 07:33 PM
  13. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    You just seem desperate about this. You can spin it as much as you want. It won't change reality.
    Accept that there are different viewpoints of the world. Palmless made a sensible argument from my perspective, with no appearance of desperation.
    02-12-12 08:24 PM
  14. grover5's Avatar
    Accept that there are different viewpoints of the world. Palmless made a sensible argument from my perspective, with no appearance of desperation.
    I do and did accept that. I did not state that his viewpoint wasn't objective as he did mine. I recognize you share his view. I also respect how much time you spend trying to help folks on the forums. You helped me many times when I first bought my 8120. My reason for pointing that out is that I have no interest in entering a political argument with you that is unlikely to end well.

    He sounded desperate to me. I stated my decision to agree to disagree and that our positions were not likely to align. In my opinion he came back to double down. It is pointless as we see the world differently.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-12-12 08:39 PM
  15. i7guy's Avatar
    Is that actually a response? School teachers commit suicide at four times the rate of Foxconn workers, but because there are tens of thousands of schools, it isn't practical to build nets?

    I LOVE IT!!!

    I do realize some do not view the world objectively, as you mention. I live in a college town, so "Symbolism over Substance" as a world view is something I see daily. Foxconn has 1/4th the suicide rate of US school teachers, and an objective person sees that as "good". But Foxconn builds iPads and Apple is among the many they help, so a subjective view is that Foxconn is "bad".

    What a way to live.
    And what about the rate of police officers, air traffic controllers, fire fighters, etc. If any one group has a rate higher than foxconn, foxconn should get a pass?
    02-12-12 09:06 PM
  16. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    And what about the rate of police officers, air traffic controllers, fire fighters, etc. If any one group has a rate higher than foxconn, foxconn should get a pass?
    Yes

    Now, can we return to our regularly scheduled topic?
    02-12-12 09:31 PM
  17. stackberry369's Avatar
    Exactly. If anything we should be upset at our government for being idiots and making ignorant decisions and forcing companies to take their money elsewhere and allowing it to happen.
    noone forced the companies to do anything.Shafta aka nafta allowed them to offshore jobs.
    02-12-12 09:32 PM
  18. stackberry369's Avatar
    The foxconn phone:the phone people would die to have literally.
    02-12-12 09:35 PM
  19. i7guy's Avatar
    Yes

    Now, can we return to our regularly scheduled topic?
    Erm, what is the topic?
    02-12-12 09:36 PM
  20. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    noone forced the companies to do anything.Shafta aka nafta allowed them to offshore jobs.
    Offshore

    History of Offshore Outsourcing

    The loss of American jobs to foreign markets is nothing new. For decades, Americans have been losing jobs in manufacturing, textiles, and almost any field that involves factory work.
    One more time I'll kindly request the topic be adhered to. Any further straying will be considered trolling.
    02-12-12 09:37 PM
  21. palmless's Avatar
    OOPS = deleted. I was typing at same time as BBW.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-12-12 09:39 PM
  22. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Erm, what is the topic?
    Ughhhhhhhhh

    http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...2/#post7109982
    badenoch likes this.
    02-12-12 09:39 PM
  23. Lil nikky's Avatar
    Helo

    I want to know where blackberry smartphones are being made and what type of blackberry devices are be being made at that manufacturing plant. Also, who is the suppliers of the blackberry smartphones?

    Thank you.
    09-25-13 09:47 AM
  24. robsteve's Avatar
    Helo

    I want to know where blackberry smartphones are being made and what type of blackberry devices are be being made at that manufacturing plant. Also, who is the suppliers of the blackberry smartphones?

    Thank you.
    You just have to look on the box or the sticker on the phone under the battery to see the country and plant it was made in. For example, both my Q10 say " Made in Mexico 5 for RIM Canada"

    There are also some made in Canada and I think Hungary for the EU.
    09-25-13 10:07 AM
  25. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Helo

    I want to know where blackberry smartphones are being made and what type of blackberry devices are be being made at that manufacturing plant. Also, who is the suppliers of the blackberry smartphones?

    Thank you.
    Blackberry concentrated their supply chain in recent years, and dropped some of their former manufacturers like Flextronics and Celestica.

    Their biggest manufacturers today are Foxconn (in Mexico and also prob either Indonesia or Malaysia) and Wistec (which is based in Taiwan)

    Robsteves Q10 for example is made by Foxconn in Mexico.
    09-25-13 10:33 AM
129 ... 3456
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD