10-03-13 12:03 PM
197 ... 5678
tools
  1. southlander's Avatar
    ... but the bottom line is that the reason the JB runtime is being implemented is to improve the performance and stability of Android ports ...
    I certainly see a night and day difference in it vs. the original Android RT in BB10. Stands to reason that a development house might wait after testing on the earlier versions. In earlier versions, it just isn't a smooth experience (kind of terrible in some cases, lol). But in the latest leaks of 10.2 it is pretty smooth. So what I guess you are trying to get across Thunderbuck is it might not be so much the specific support for JB some would be waiting for as it is the improvements in the overall quality of the Android RT in BB10 that happen to come along with it.

    Yeah I get it. I see that.

    Though the very unfortunate news lately from BlackBerry can only hurt the possibility of more apps.
    09-25-13 12:04 AM
  2. Saiga's Avatar
    I can only answer this with another question: what platform would have done better (and PLEASE do not suggest Android)??

    QNX was not the point of failure here.
    I Know around here it is common to think BlackBerry using Android would have been a massive mistake, but in hindsight, I can't believe people still feel/think that way.

    Look at the facts. How many billions worth of unsold BlackBerry devices are running a OS based on QNX? Between just two products? Wasn't the total PlayBook inventory write off in the neighborhood of 1.5 billion? Then we have the Z10 with its nearly 1 billion dollar write off. That is around 2.5 billion worth of unsold devices running a OS people don't want.

    Now for fun, please name one company that has failed so miserably with two Android-based products. I searched and searched, but I couldn't find a single company that did so poorly with two Android based devices in their history period . BlackBerry managed to fail that badly with two QNX based devices in a row. I also can't name a single well known Android manufacture that failed so miserably that they got taken over to try to save the company. Motorola got taken over, but that was to prevent them from bringing patent lawsuits. Other companies have been bought for various reasons, but not to try to save their failing business. I also struggle to find a single Android OEM that lost over $50 billion of their market cap over the course of five years.

    What would have changed if BlackBerry went Android instead? Well I don't see how things would have much worse. BlackBerry could have made a skin for Android that included the gestures, and the Hub. They could have brought the Z10 Keyboard with them and the Android camera app could have been modified to include that stupid gimmick no one really uses in real life. They are making BBM for Android right now, so obviously that wouldn't have been an issue. And their browser and email client are just apps at the end of the day, they could have stuck them on Android as well. As far as I can tell, everything BB10 does that consumer care about could have been done with a Android based phone and with BB10 styling.

    Think of the advantages that would have gave BB10. What is one of the main reasons BB10 failed so badly? In my opinion, it is the lack of apps. Consumers don't want to sideload. BB10 as a Android based phone would have plenty of apps without side loading required. Consumers love Android. At least 1.5 million people per day activate a Android device. People buy Android based phones. They obviously do not buy QNX based phones. BlackBerry would of also been able to bring new phones to market much sooner if they had went with Android instead of QNX.

    But I dunno. Too late to worry about what could of been now. I'm sure LG, Sony and HTC are really happy that BlackBerry made their own OS that no one wants. They probably wouldn't be doing so well right now if BlackBerry had went with Android. Even the worst phones made by those 3 companies did better commercially than the Z10 has.
    Last edited by Saiga; 09-25-13 at 04:51 AM.
    notfanboy, JasW, aniym and 3 others like this.
    09-25-13 04:39 AM
  3. Cylon69's Avatar
    Far as I'm aware he's always been a fan of BlackBerry, thank goodness people like him exist!
    09-25-13 06:59 AM
  4. Cylon69's Avatar
    I Know around here it is common to think BlackBerry using Android would have been a massive mistake, but in hindsight, I can't believe people still feel/think that way.

    Look at the facts. How many billions worth of unsold BlackBerry devices are running a OS based on QNX? Between just two products? Wasn't the total PlayBook inventory write off in the neighborhood of 1.5 billion? Then we have the Z10 with its nearly 1 billion dollar write off. That is around 2.5 billion worth of unsold devices running a OS people don't want.

    Now for fun, please name one company that has failed so miserably with two Android-based products. I searched and searched, but I couldn't find a single company that did so poorly with two Android based devices in their history period . BlackBerry managed to fail that badly with two QNX based devices in a row. I also can't name a single well known Android manufacture that failed so miserably that they got taken over to try to save the company. Motorola got taken over, but that was to prevent them from bringing patent lawsuits. Other companies have been bought for various reasons, but not to try to save their failing business. I also struggle to find a single Android OEM that lost over $50 billion of their market cap over the course of five years.

    What would have changed if BlackBerry went Android instead? Well I don't see how things would have much worse. BlackBerry could have made a skin for Android that included the gestures, and the Hub. They could have brought the Z10 Keyboard with them and the Android camera app could have been modified to include that stupid gimmick no one really uses in real life. They are making BBM for Android right now, so obviously that wouldn't have been an issue. And their browser and email client are just apps at the end of the day, they could have stuck them on Android as well. As far as I can tell, everything BB10 does that consumer care about could have been done with a Android based phone and with BB10 styling.

    Think of the advantages that would have gave BB10. What is one of the main reasons BB10 failed so badly? In my opinion, it is the lack of apps. Consumers don't want to sideload. BB10 as a Android based phone would have plenty of apps without side loading required. Consumers love Android. At least 1.5 million people per day activate a Android device. People buy Android based phones. They obviously do not buy QNX based phones. BlackBerry would of also been able to bring new phones to market much sooner if they had went with Android instead of QNX.

    But I dunno. Too late to worry about what could of been now. I'm sure LG, Sony and HTC are really happy that BlackBerry made their own OS that no one wants. They probably wouldn't be doing so well right now if BlackBerry had went with Android. Even the worst phones made by those 3 companies did better commercially than the Z10 has.
    "Look at the facts. How many billions worth of unsold BlackBerry devices are running a OS based on QNX? "
    Come on man!!! The media has alot to answer for in regards to the low sales figures, also the lack of marketing and advertising ,
    Bb10 smokes any other platform and being qnx based makes it the all time ruler and I believe the tide will turn soon with the help of real advertising and no more crap media reports.

    Imagine if bb10 didn't exist!!

    Further more, what do you mean bb10 is a os "no one wants"? It's a os no one knows (yet)

    And have you stopped to think about all the disadvantages with Android?
    Have you used a z10? Doesn't sound like it!
    Last edited by Cylon69; 09-25-13 at 07:24 AM.
    FSeverino and schwede like this.
    09-25-13 07:04 AM
  5. JasW's Avatar
    "Look at the facts. How many billions worth of unsold BlackBerry devices are running a OS based on QNX? "
    Come on man!!! The media has alot to answer for in regards to the low sales figures, also the lack of marketing and advertising ,
    Bb10 smokes any other platform and being qnx based makes it the all time ruler and I believe the tide will turn soon with the help of real advertising and no more crap media reports.

    Imagine if bb10 didn't exist!!

    Further more, what do you mean bb10 is a os "no one wants"? It's a os no one knows (yet)
    Again with "the media." Face it, BBRY dug its own grave with years of unresponsiveness and a stunning inability to overcome the perception that it was a purveyor of outdated products. Let's throw in a few dashes of hubris and arrogance.
    mikeo007, anon1727506 and Etios like this.
    09-25-13 07:13 AM
  6. Cylon69's Avatar
    Again with "the media." Face it, BBRY dug its own grave with years of unresponsiveness and a stunning inability to overcome the perception that it was a purveyor of outdated products. Let's throw in a few dashes of hubris and arrogance.
    Buy a z10 (or z30) my friend, after a week you'll be in love .
    Bb10 with qnx is amazing, I'm saying it hasn't failed in terms of sales because no one wants it. People need to know about it, it really is great

    Everyone should at least own a bb10 device before talking about why or how it's failed, becomes much clearer when realize it's a great os
    schwede likes this.
    09-25-13 07:20 AM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I Know around here it is common to think BlackBerry using Android would have been a massive mistake, but in hindsight, I can't believe people still feel/think that way.
    It would have been a massive mistake. Samsung makes 95% of all the profits of all the Android carriers. So others are struggling to make money.

    Blackberry made management mistakes in releasing the Playbook before it was completed. They did a Beta version of QNX on the public. Even with that, everyone I know who has a Playbook loves it. So QNX isn't the problem there. They got bad press and I don't think I ever saw any advertising for them. So they had to write down inventory. Once they did that and reduced the price of the product, it flew off the shelves.

    BB10 was a launch and advertising disaster. It wasn't the OS. They also over produced and had to write down inventory. They also had a hard time from US carriers, press and Wall Street analysts. If the same thing happened to Samsung, they would go under. It isn't the OS. Get over it.
    schwede likes this.
    09-25-13 07:34 AM
  8. Cylon69's Avatar
    It would have been a massive mistake. Samsung makes 95% of all the profits of all the Android carriers. So others are struggling to make money.

    Blackberry made management mistakes in releasing the Playbook before it was completed. They did a Beta version of QNX on the public. Even with that, everyone I know who has a Playbook loves it. So QNX isn't the problem there. They got bad press and I don't think I ever saw any advertising for them. So they had to write down inventory. Once they did that and reduced the price of the product, it flew off the shelves.

    BB10 was a launch and advertising disaster. It wasn't the OS. They also over produced and had to write down inventory. They also had a hard time from US carriers, press and Wall Street analysts. If the same thing happened to Samsung, they would go under. It isn't the OS. Get over it.
    Well said. Exactly right
    09-25-13 07:37 AM
  9. Saiga's Avatar
    "Look at the facts. How many billions worth of unsold BlackBerry devices are running a OS based on QNX? "
    Come on man!!! The media has alot to answer for in regards to the low sales figures, also the lack of marketing and advertising ,
    Bb10 smokes any other platform and being qnx based makes it the all time ruler and I believe the tide will turn soon with the help of real advertising and no more crap media reports.

    Imagine if bb10 didn't exist!!

    Further more, what do you mean bb10 is a os "no one wants"? It's a os no one knows (yet)

    And have you stopped to think about all the disadvantages with Android?
    Have you used a z10? Doesn't sound like it!
    Lol blame it on the media. Typical response. Also typical is the fact that you questioned if I've used a Z10. I've lost count of how many times that has happened here. But yes, yes I have used a Z10. Actually I have a LEZ10 for sell on this website right this very moment. It is the second LEZ10 I've put up for sell here. I also have a Dev Alpha C listed here. I've used BlackBerry 10 since it looked exactly like the Tablet OS 2.0.

    BlackBerry more than likely made a huge mistake by going with a QNX based OS instead of Android. We won't know for sure because it is too late to find out what if. However, reality can provide us with some clues about what could have happened. You mentioned the disadvantages with Android, yet I bet you can't name a single Android smartphone that came out this year and has performed so poorly that its manufacture had to write off 1 billion dollars worth of inventory. Can you? Well it seems the manufactures that are using Android are doing better than the one manufacture that is using BlackBerry 10. That isn't bashing or trolling it is reality.

    HTC, Sony and LG have long been considered struggling Android manufactures, yet each of those companies have a single Android model that outsells all BB10 devices combined for this year. Again that is just reality. I really don't see how BlackBerry's situation could have been any worse by using Android.

    Sure, BlackBerry would still have horrible a launch, and they would have sucked at marketing the new devices. But at least the phones would have a OS the masses like and all of the apps everyone wants.
    mikeo007, MazoMark and Etios like this.
    09-25-13 07:42 AM
  10. Cylon69's Avatar
    Lol blame it on the media. Typical response. Also typical is the fact that you questioned if I've used a Z10. I've lost count of how many times that has happened here. But yes, yes I have used a Z10. Actually I have a LEZ10 for sell on this website right this very moment. It is the second LEZ10 I've put up for sell here. I also have a Dev Alpha C listed here. I've used BlackBerry 10 since it looked exactly like the Tablet OS 2.0.

    BlackBerry more than likely made a huge mistake by going with a QNX based OS instead of Android. We won't know for sure because it is too late to find out what if. However, reality can provide us with some clues about what could have happened. You mentioned the disadvantages with Android, yet I bet you can't name a single Android smartphone that came out this year and has performed so poorly that its manufacture had to write off 1 billion dollars worth of inventory. Can you? Well it seems the manufactures that are using Android are doing better than the one manufacture that is using BlackBerry 10. That isn't bashing or trolling it is reality.

    HTC, Sony and LG have long been considered struggling Android manufactures, yet each of those companies have a single Android model that outsells all BB10 devices combined for this year. Again that is just reality. I really don't see how BlackBerry's situation could have been any worse by using Android.
    Sorry man, as soon as I read that you think going with a qnx based os was a mistake I lost interest in your reply. QNX is the future.
    09-25-13 07:46 AM
  11. mikeo007's Avatar
    Sorry man, as soon as I read that you think going with a qnx based os was a mistake I lost interest in your reply. QNX is the future.
    As we can clearly see by Blackberry's sharp decline while selling it.
    Saiga, MazoMark, Etios and 2 others like this.
    09-25-13 07:52 AM
  12. Saiga's Avatar
    Sorry man, as soon as I read that you think going with a qnx based os was a mistake I lost interest in your reply. QNX is the future.


    I seriously laughed out loud. Do you think QNX is something new? It isn't. It is almost as old as I am. They've been around for years and years, yet nobody wanted them until BlackBerry came around and bought them for only $200 million. If QNX is really so amazing and has so much potential, then why did it take so long for a company to purchase them? Why was the price so cheap if QNX has so much going for it?

    I mean $200 million is nothing in technology. Remember, BlackBerry just wasted a billion on Z10s. They could have basically bought QNX five times over using their stack of unsold Z10s. Lol
    notfanboy and richardat like this.
    09-25-13 07:57 AM
  13. kevinnugent's Avatar


    I seriously laughed out loud. Do you think QNX is something new? It isn't. It is almost as old as I am. They've been around for years and years, yet nobody wanted them until BlackBerry came around and bought them for only $200 million. If QNX is really so amazing and has so much potential, then why did it take so long for a company to purchase them? Why was the price so cheap if QNX has so much going for it?

    I mean $200 million is nothing in technology. Remember, BlackBerry just wasted a billion on Z10s. They could have basically bought QNX five times over using their stack of unsold Z10s. Lol
    I could be wrong, but I read the company that developed QNX and later on sold it to RIM actually got it for free. It was public domain for ages.
    Saiga likes this.
    09-25-13 08:07 AM
  14. JasW's Avatar
    It would have been a massive mistake. Samsung makes 95% of all the profits of all the Android carriers. So others are struggling to make money.

    Blackberry made management mistakes in releasing the Playbook before it was completed. They did a Beta version of QNX on the public. Even with that, everyone I know who has a Playbook loves it. So QNX isn't the problem there. They got bad press and I don't think I ever saw any advertising for them. So they had to write down inventory. Once they did that and reduced the price of the product, it flew off the shelves.

    BB10 was a launch and advertising disaster. It wasn't the OS. They also over produced and had to write down inventory. They also had a hard time from US carriers, press and Wall Street analysts. If the same thing happened to Samsung, they would go under. It isn't the OS. Get over it.
    No, it isn't the OS per se. But along with all of the other failures, it is the ecosystem accompanying that OS. An OS doesn't exist in a vacuum.
    Saiga and richardat like this.
    09-25-13 08:11 AM
  15. Saiga's Avatar
    I could be wrong, but I read the company that developed QNX and later on sold it to RIM actually got it for free. It was public domain for ages.
    Hmm, I'm not sure if that is the case or not. I do know QNX was open source up until BlackBerry bought it.

    I remember my first learning of QNX was when my Dad got the QNX floppy. If I'm not mistaken, he got it for free by buying a magazine. The floppy and magazine were sealed up in a plastic bag, like magazines sometimes do with CDs or DVDs today. It was good times.
    kevinnugent and richardat like this.
    09-25-13 08:11 AM
  16. anon1727506's Avatar
    Buy a z10 (or z30) my friend, after a week you'll be in love .
    Bb10 with qnx is amazing, I'm saying it hasn't failed in terms of sales because no one wants it. People need to know about it, it really is great

    Everyone should at least own a bb10 device before talking about why or how it's failed, becomes much clearer when realize it's a great os
    Use it, and I think what we have is a great UI.... not a sure about how good the OS is.

    There are a number of "features" that are missing from BB10, is it because they didn't have time to add them. Or is it because they would put additional drain on the hardware.....


    Back to the Topic.... Watsa has not said anything about keeping BlackBerry together, so why do we even have this thread?
    09-25-13 08:25 AM
  17. Cylon69's Avatar


    I seriously laughed out loud. Do you think QNX is something new? It isn't. It is almost as old as I am. They've been around for years and years, yet nobody wanted them until BlackBerry came around and bought them for only $200 million. If QNX is really so amazing and has so much potential, then why did it take so long for a company to purchase them? Why was the price so cheap if QNX has so much going for it?

    I mean $200 million is nothing in technology. Remember, BlackBerry just wasted a billion on Z10s. They could have basically bought QNX five times over using their stack of unsold Z10s. Lol
    Did I say it was something new? No.
    Dissing qnx or a qnx based os is pathetic.
    Do you know why I love BlackBerry?
    They make devices for people like me.
    Who am I? I am someone who has full respect for people that think outside the square and try out new ways of doing things.
    A qnx based os on a phone was and is a great idea, why not try it. It's early days and it's had a rough as hell start.
    In your world there would only be ios and android (sad the way this world is going!). Yes they have made lots of mistakes but I'd give up on this world if there was no company that thinks like BlackBerry,
    And android with 400+ security concerns would have destroyed BlackBerry. Not to mention like stated before that Samsung own 95% of the Android market.
    09-25-13 08:29 AM
  18. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Samsung won't own it forever. Once another firm comes out with massive marketing, a great product, excellent hardware and takes advantage of consumer sentiment then they'll take over. Could have been a Blackberry. Now we'll never know.
    09-25-13 08:33 AM
  19. Cylon69's Avatar
    Samsung won't own it forever. Once another firm comes out with massive marketing, a great product, excellent hardware and takes advantage of consumer sentiment then they'll take over. Could have been a Blackberry. Now we'll never know.
    Let's see what happens when bb10 gets marketed properly, fight has only just began
    09-25-13 08:37 AM
  20. Saiga's Avatar
    Did I say it was something new? No.
    Do you know why I love BlackBerry?
    They make devices for people like me.
    Who am I? I am someone who has full respect for people that think outside the square and try out new ways of doing things.
    A qnx based os on a phone was and is a great idea, why not try it. It's early days and it's had a rough as hell start.
    In your world there would only be ios and android (sad the way this world is going!). Yes they have made lots of mistakes but I'd give up on this world if there was no company that thinks like BlackBerry,
    And android with 400+ security concerns would have destroyed BlackBerry. Not to mention like stated before that Samsung own 95% of the Android market.
    Why you no mention WP8? It is in 3rd behind Android and iOS now. I'm all about choice, that is is why I actively use and support 3 different smartphone platforms. I own Androids, WP8 and BlackBerry and I am really excited to get both a Sailfish and Firefox OS device. I really want there to be more competition in the market. Sadly, that isn't gonna come from BlackBerry 10.

    Consumers don't care about security and it is amazing that HTC, Sony and LG have no problems selling around 10 times as many Android devices as BlackBerry sells BB10 devices, while all three are fighting for the 5% of the market left over by Samsung.

    See, saying "Samsung owns 95% of the Android market" just makes BlackBerry situation seem even worse. HTC, Sony and LG completely destroyed BlackBerry's numbers even though Samsung has 95% of their market. Yeah, I'm thinking BlackBerry should have went Android.
    09-25-13 08:40 AM
  21. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Let's see what happens when bb10 gets marketed properly, fight has only just began
    I'd be right there with you bud. Problem is, their party is over I think. Even if Blackberry is kept intact, which I doubt 99.9%, they'll only be going for Enterprise. Will save a fortune on advertising I guess. B2B is where their future lies at best.
    09-25-13 08:41 AM
  22. omekaac's Avatar
    Hm.... I probably don't know what to say now. I think I will just wait and see what all this will lead to.

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-13 08:46 AM
  23. Cylon69's Avatar
    I think you guys are giving up faith on bb10 too soon, it's great and ingenious, it would be a crime to give up on it.
    I could be wrong and I hope I'm not but I think it's going to grow,
    If it had be advertised like Samsung or apple get out there then it would have taken the world by the balls.
    Two things can happen. BlackBerry can be murdered or it can be pumped using good marketing...


    Thanks superfly for the news
    09-25-13 08:47 AM
  24. CHIP72's Avatar
    A lot of people thought it would be a crime to give up on webOS too...and it didn't matter, it still died (in terms of being a viable, widely supported mobile operating system).
    Saiga likes this.
    09-25-13 08:52 AM
  25. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I think you guys are giving up faith on bb10 too soon, it's great and ingenious, it would be a crime to give up on it.
    I could be wrong and I hope I'm not but I think it's going to grow,
    If it had be advertised like Samsung or apple get out there then it would have taken the world by the balls.
    Two things can happen. BlackBerry can be murdered or it can be pumped using good marketing...
    Mate, I agree to a point BUT there were so many things around it that were sub par. The ecosystem, the quirks of the software, the tarnished brand, the carriers non committal marketing, Blackberry's atrocious marketing, the inability to get big name app developers, the legacy features that were missing, the lies to Playbook owners, the delayed execution of delivery, the inability to launch effectively in the US. Shall I go on? They had all the money and manpower in the world to do all that and more and yet still managed to screw the pooch.

    Honestly, I think this has been a For Sale exercise for many months and I think shareholders are going to get royally screwed.
    Saiga and richardat like this.
    09-25-13 08:55 AM
197 ... 5678

Similar Threads

  1. eGo maps for blackberry using googlemaps
    By nealjane1 in forum PlayBook Apps & Games
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-14-14, 04:32 PM
  2. So, On Today's News... Who Wants A Z30?
    By bigglybobblyboo in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 09-24-13, 10:18 PM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-24-13, 06:58 PM
  4. With this new company buying BlackBerry what will happen to BBM4All.
    By evo-e in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-23-13, 07:12 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD